What a healthy Tannehill would do this year? | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

What a healthy Tannehill would do this year?

Kenny Stills is playing the best football of his career the last 6 weeks.

He looks like a guy that has actually worked hard at his craft after getting paid.

Making that $20 mil guaranteed look easier to swallow.

We are about 1 year away from dvp falling out of the ceiling top 5 wr market. Top 15 looks still on the table but top 5 looks ehh. It’s hard though with our qb issues to really gauge it.

Next year like with Xavien Howard the rubbers gonna hit the road
 
hoops said:
Kenny Stills is playing the best football of his career the last 6 weeks.

He looks like a guy that has actually worked hard at his craft after getting paid.

Making that $20 mil guaranteed look easier to swallow.

We are about 1 year away from dvp falling out of the ceiling top 5 wr market. Top 15 looks still on the table but top 5 looks ehh. It’s hard though with our qb issues to really gauge it.

Next year like with Xavien Howard the rubbers gonna hit the road
Click to expand...
DVP was never in top 5 wr market. All other personall moves are mood if Gase continue his downward spiral.
 
Aquablood said:
Ok, I like to know your unbias opinion. So you think the opposing DOs will game plan against RT first before worrying our running game?
Click to expand...
I DON'T know. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. There's no way of knowing. That's my point. You're making assumptions and treating them as fact. I'm just pointing out the failure of your logic.

Now, if you want to say "my OPINION is XYZ based on these assumptions," then fantastic. But to treat your assumptions as facts in an unverifiable hypothetical is just asinine.
 
Ren said:
I DON'T know. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. There's no way of knowing. That's my point. You're making assumptions and treating them as fact. I'm just pointing out the failure of your logic.

Now, if you want to say "my OPINION is XYZ based on these assumptions," then fantastic. But to treat your assumptions as facts in an unverifiable hypothetical is just asinine.
Click to expand...
This is not the court of law. When people say the team will be good or the team will be bad next year....of cause it is their opinion, to say 'In my opinion' before start everything is asinine as you put it.
 
hoops said:
We are about 1 year away from dvp falling out of the ceiling top 5 wr market. Top 15 looks still on the table but top 5 looks ehh. It’s hard though with our qb issues to really gauge it.
Click to expand...

DVP has the talent but so rarely has the physical health to bring it to bear. He just physically doesn't look the same when he's hurt and he's as inconsistent mentally as he is physically. I wish we were more likely to go into next year with Stills and Landry instead of Stills and Parker.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
Football Outsiders has some cool stuff but all you need to know about their evaluations is that Scott Kacsmar literally thinks Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers are bad quarterbacks.

He won't say that on Twitter, because he would be rightly ridiculed for it, but he used to say it on KFFL before he was making money off of his football opinions.

As always, the best authority for box score readers to appeal to should remain the box score. It's your home! Are you too good for your home?
Click to expand...
Again, taking a snap shot of an article or a contributer`s opinion to disapprove everything the site has evaluated. Because it doesn't fit the narrative.
 
Aquablood said:
Yes, RT had a good game. That is one game, a snap shot. But when you look at body of work, RT went from below average to average last year. ( or not close to elite level, you have to agree to that ). And my point again, unless there is major dramatic improvement this year ( huge assumption), a healthy RT will not do much better for this team this year.
Click to expand...
RT played at an above average QB the last part of the season.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
Click to expand...

Cute, but fail to see the point to support your case.
On the other hand, I posted these questions and drew the conclusion/opinion that even healthy RT can not improve this team much, and therefore Gase cannot escape the blame. I have again read thru all three pages of attack but have yet see anyone able to answer these questions to disqualify my conclusion/opinion. Therefore I rest my case. Out.
<<Lets not make him into a Brady, Brees, Rogers, Wilson or even Sam Bradford. RT is no savior. Can he improve our record this year? may be, by one game if that. RT cannot make the line block better, protect better, eliminate stupid mistakes. RT cannot make Timmons play game one. RT cannot make JT run faster. RT cannot make OL coach stay clean. RT cannot make Manaluga reported to camp in shape and stop drinking in bar early in the morning.

Most importantly, RT cannot make the opposing defense stop stacking the box and shut down the running.>>
 
Aquablood said:
This is not the court of law. When people say the team will be good or the team will be bad next year....of cause it is their opinion, to say 'In my opinion' before start everything is asinine as you put it.
Click to expand...

And yet, on the very first page, you stated that your claims are indeed fact. So now you are contradicting yourself...

Aquablood said:
No one can. But from the facts and points that I stated. You can draw a conclusion. Unless you are wearing rose colored glasses.
Click to expand...

As I said, your interpretation of logic is flawed.
 
If he did what he was doing at the end of least year (a passer rating of 100), or if he improved to some reasonably expected level (a passer rating of let's say 103), the team would have an expected record of 5-5, due to its horrendous pass defense.

I started a thread on this the other day: "What does Ryan Tannehill's 2018 Return Mean?"
 
Aquablood said:
Cute, but fail to see the point to support your case.
On the other hand, I posted these questions and drew the conclusion/opinion that even healthy RT can not improve this team much, and therefore Gase cannot escape the blame. I have again read thru all three pages of attack but have yet see anyone able to answer these questions to disqualify my conclusion/opinion. Therefore I rest my case. Out.
<<Lets not make him into a Brady, Brees, Rogers, Wilson or even Sam Bradford. RT is no savior. Can he improve our record this year? may be, by one game if that. RT cannot make the line block better, protect better, eliminate stupid mistakes. RT cannot make Timmons play game one. RT cannot make JT run faster. RT cannot make OL coach stay clean. RT cannot make Manaluga reported to camp in shape and stop drinking in bar early in the morning.

Most importantly, RT cannot make the opposing defense stop stacking the box and shut down the running.>>
Click to expand...

You keep adding this statement to your posts as if it is a definitive argument. The impact of a QB on a team is significant, especially when the replacement of that player is giving you, at best, bottom 8 QB play.

Let's address some things.

- There is little Tannehill could have done to make up for our horrid travel schedule to start the year. Yes, plenty of team deal with travel, but being displaced in California for a week due to Irma, playing away in New York to playing away in London. No team can overcome that, it affects players mentally, physically, and emotionally. So I doubt he makes a difference in those three games.

- Yes, Tannehill can make of for offensive weaknesses, he has been doing it his entire career. He made up for having one of the worst receiving cores in the NFL. A group that had Brian ****ing Hartline as its number 1. He turns that turd sandwich into a 2 time 1000 WR. He has also found success behind a historically bad offensive line. Sacked a record number of times and was still able to get this team to 8-8. Last season, under his 3rd OC, 3rd head coach, he manages to put the team into position to be even considered for a playoff berth.

- The players have confidence in him. His knowledge of the game and the offense makes up for WR mistakes...hell offensive mistakes in general. The team was penalized almost as much last season and somehow we found success.

- Teams have to respect his deep ball, an area of contention when Mike Wallace (who also experienced career number with Tannehill) was here. became a strength last season. Teams didn't stack the box last year (one of the reasons Ajayi enjoyed the success last year) because they knew that Tannehill could beat them...when they did, he did.

Does he instantly make this team 10 - 0...no, but I would like our chances a whole lot more to be competitive in games we were blown out in and to beat the Raiders and Bucs. I think 6-4 at this point with Tannehill at QB would have most believing the Dolphins would be in good position to make a push for the playoffs. I think we have to realize that the team was dealt a bad hand from the time he was injured. Besides QB1 going down we have had other things affect the team immensely, as mentioned earlier. The franchise did what it had to in an attempt to salvage the season, but once Tannehill went down and we had to move our entire team for a week and play 16 straight games, the season was going to be a wash. 2018 cannot get here soon enough.
 
FSU Truth said:
You keep adding this statement to your posts as if it is a definitive argument. The impact of a QB on a team is significant, especially when the replacement of that player is giving you, at best, bottom 8 QB play.

Let's address some things.

- There is little Tannehill could have done to make up for our horrid travel schedule to start the year. Yes, plenty of team deal with travel, but being displaced in California for a week due to Irma, playing away in New York to playing away in London. No team can overcome that, it affects players mentally, physically, and emotionally. So I doubt he makes a difference in those three games.
Click to expand...


And more broadly speaking with regard to 2017, there is little Tannehill could've done to improve the horrendous pass defense (opponents' overall passer rating is currently over 103), as the correlation between offensive passer rating and defensive passer rating throughout the league, on a team-by-team basis between 2004 and 2016, is -0.097, which is extremely weak.

As much as it hurts to think about it, a healthy Tannehill in 2017, performing at his best level for an extended period from 2016, would've been associated with an expected Dolphins record of 5-5.

The horrendous pass defense of 2017 places a sharp limit on what this team can achieve. As I've said before, surrendering an opposing passer rating of 99 to 105 has been associated with a 4-12 record on average in the league since 2004. Even the best quarterbacks in the league can't surmount that to the degree that a team makes the playoffs.

In fact of the 19 teams since 2004 that have surrendered such a poor passer rating, only one of them finished with a winning record, and that was the 2004 Green Bay Packers with Brett Favre, which finished 10-6 and were quickly dispatched in the playoffs by the Vikings and Daunte Culpepper, to whom they surrendered a passer rating of 137.1, in a game they lost 31-17.

In other words, a team with this kind of pass defense is going nowhere.
 
Tannehill is in the same tier as Bradford, Alex Smith, Dalton, Stafford, and a few other "but who are you gonna replace him with" types I'm probably forgetting, and Cutler was in that tier as well as late as last season. You need a special coach and/or special talent to flourish with a QB in that tier. And by flourish I mean being a team nobody wants to face season in, season out.

Gase had his opportunity to get lucky. He should have demanded we replace Moore when he got here, and you never know, maybe we'd have gotten Dak in the third, Dak would have gotten his opportunity to start and the rest would be history. But Gase's ego got in the way. He wanted to show up Philbin and crew by creating a monster with the exact same QB situation. And now we (continue to) suffer as a result.
 
roy_miami said:
Tannehill is in the same tier as Bradford, Alex Smith, Dalton, Stafford, and a few other "but who are you gonna replace him with" types I'm probably forgetting, and Cutler was in that tier as well as late as last season. You need a special coach and/or special talent to flourish with a QB in that tier. And by flourish I mean being a team nobody wants to face season in, season out.
Click to expand...


What you need is a defense that stops other teams' good quarterback play, and that kind of talent on defense is difficult to sustain on the season in, season out basis you mentioned. Free agency, injuries, and declining individual play/retirement make it all but impossible.

This is why you see average QBs who win a Super Bowl with a stellar defense as the relative rarity in the league, while teams that win the Super Bowl with great QBs and average or better defenses are the norm. I suspect we'll never see a current-day dynasty in the NFL that doesn't feature one of the league's top QBs. You simply can't sustain the defensive talent necessary to win on a long-term basis of that nature, with only an average-level QB.

The league revolves around QB play. You win with either your own great QB, or by stopping the opposing one.

If you have neither -- a la the 2017 Dolphins -- you easily become one of the worst teams in the league.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom