2018 FIFA Worldcup without US, Italy and Chile.

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by phins_4_ever, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    20,074
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    With a loss to Trinidad & Tobago (yes, Trinidad & Tobago) the US is out. I said it back then that hiring Bruce Arena to replace Klinsmann was a huge mistake.
    Everybody who was involved in hiring him and Arena himself should be fired. This sets the US back.
     
    Kdawg954 likes this.
  2. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Was a necessary evil that had to happen. The whole program needs to be gutted aside from a select few players. To much satisfaction with mediocrity just because we can "usually" do enough to make it out of CONCACAF. I will never say I am happy with this result, this is awful, but if it leads to proper change to make US soccer stronger, then so be it.

    It starts with Gulati. Anyone who can honestly fire Klinsman in favor of that bum Arena needs to be fired.

    I am sick of seeing Michael Bradley give the ball away in the midfield. If this loss means I never have to see him play on this team again, it will have been worth it.

    How on earth can you keep putting players like Besler and Gonzalez on the pitch? Combined with Bradley that may just be the worst central defense in the world. Good Lord.

    Not even a tie? Yea they don't deserve to go. Teams Like Chile and the Dutch ain't goin . . . U.S. can sit their asses home as well.

    ****ing bums
     
    phins_4_ever likes this.
  3. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Trophy Points:
    113
  4. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    20,074
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are speaking my mind.
     
    Kdawg954 likes this.
  5. GasPed

    GasPed A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2009
    Messages:
    1,015
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Never been an Arena fan, but it was clear that Klinsmann had lost the team and needed to go. Arena was just a practical choice - it was just too short notice to get anyone new into the program.

    I think you're being a bit hard on Bradley too. I think he's actually a decent holding midfielder, and his distribution is reasonably good, at least when he's playing on TFC. But he needs to be partnered with skilled wingers and a number 10, or he tries to do too much. Apart from Pulisic, the talent on the USMNT is mediocre (to put it kindly), hence Bradley tries to do too much. Well, at least that's my theory.
     
  6. Bumpus

    Bumpus Are you gonna drink that? Administrator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 2003
    Messages:
    30,353
    Likes Received:
    890
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Meh.

    "Soccer"

    *shrugs*
     
    Namor likes this.
  7. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think he lost the team. His dismissal was all political. They had been waiting for the right time to get rid of him and the Costa Rica game provided that fuel. He clearly had the best vision for U.S. Soccer and its future but the heads of U.S. soccer never saw eye to eye with him. They want to show off their billion dollar investment in MLS and its players over Klinsman's love for Euro league players.

    Take Fabian Johnson being left off this squad for example. Who cares if he hasn't logged a ton of minutes at Gladbach this season, fact is he goes up against superiors players on a daily basis and takes part in superior practices. Not to mention his versatility and ability on free kicks. They rather start Villifana and Arriola, and feed us Felhaber and Zusi . . . Its a damn joke.

    Bradley never moves the ball forward. I'm sorry man. Too many giveaways, too many backwards passes, etc. For somebody trying to do too much he gets very little accomplished. The fact that he has been allowed to roam the middle of that team for so long is the perfect example of why this U.S. team is so mediocre.

    The whole system needs to be gutted and the U.S. needs to open the pocketbook up and get a true visionary from Europe to evaluate how we train and how we run our field system. Too many five star athletes in this country that get passed over because of soccer politics. We need a coach who has had success on the big stage and isn't so close to the MLS and the US soccer cronies. Bringing back Arena was a slap in the face to the entire fanbase.

    Like I said if this result leads to the proper changes then it will be well worth it.

    But I have my doubts that anything changes.
     
  8. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And I wouldn't be surprised if the dollar figures from the money lost with U.S. out forces Fifa's hands and they make Panama-Costa Rica replay that match because of that non goal. There is precedent to do it and it clearly wasn't a goal.

    But hopefully Fifa takes the hit and gives replay more run in the future. Let the U.S. sit this one out.
     
  9. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    18,236
    Likes Received:
    2,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Seriously? How could the US not quality? The other teams in your region are mostly crap, Northern Ireland would be a powerhouse

    That is mind blowing
     
  10. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    20,074
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is. The US and Mexico should always be playing for 1 and 2 in the CONCACAF and not worrying about not qualifying. Costa Rica is the third team. Granted Panama scored a non goal but losing to Trinidad and Tobago? They don't deserve to sniff the WC.

    The biggest problems is that after Klinsmann they hired Bruce Arena. I said it back then and I say it again: he was never qualified to be a National coach. Not in the past and not now.
    They went from crap to bigger crap.
    They need a coach who understands international soccer and strategy and they don't have that in the US. They have to look outside (and not another Klinsmann). They also need to change the talent development. The rise through travel leagues and college is not enough. The young players are only as good as the coaches and the US has hardly any coaches which can develop young players to global standards.

    Thankfully I still got my "homies" Germany but for the US it is a big blow.
     
  11. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am the same. I always have Germany to lean on being that I am half German . . .but damn this whole situation just pisses me off.

    I will say this, even though Trinidad was in last place, watching them during qualifying, they were much more organized and had good possession in the midfield than their position leads you to believe. You saw some of that in the game vs. The U.S. They just never could put together the final part of it and put the ball in the back of the net enough.

    And you know what, I would feel somewhat better if it was a highly contested match and we ended up on the wrong side of the result. What makes me mad is the complete lack of a pulse that entire first half . . . It was the worst performance I have seen from the States maybe ever from that aspect. Its almost like they didn't take it serious and assumed they were already in Russia so why care. The second half saw a minor uptick in urgency but by that time you had to deal with the Soca Warriors and the constant falling down and delays of game but that is the gamesmanship you deal with when you go down in a match like that.

    Truth is, this qualifying round was lost when you lose both home games vs. Mexico and Costa Rica. When you can't manage one point in those two matchups on your home soil, you don't deserve to move on. I never trust CONCACAF road games and didn't trust this one.
     
  12. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    18,236
    Likes Received:
    2,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I would be stunned. Henry outright cheated against the republic a while ago and nothing happened.

    With the teams the US play against? It shouldnt matter what happens in any other game.
     
  13. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You mean they were faced with a choice of France in or out? You are sort of answering your own question. So much money lost with the U.S. out over Panama, I'm just saying, don't be surprised if they force that game to be replayed even though we both know that the U.S. has no business having that option as a possibility because of their piss poor play in a group where they should never finish worse than 2nd, let alone 3rd.
     
  14. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    18,236
    Likes Received:
    2,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It wont come down to money, Fifa already have enough high profile corruption scandals.The US wont be in the world cup, overturning that result would cause uproar
     
  15. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 2004
    Messages:
    29,609
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Rightfully so. US is out and deserves to be out. They're an embarrassment. Rather this than them getting cheated in, only to get their asses kicked in Russia of all places.
     
    CalDolFan10x14 likes this.
  16. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    18,236
    Likes Received:
    2,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Meh NI prob wont make it in either if we get a nasty playoff draw -_-

    Would love to see us qualify just once in my life. We used to be really good a few decades ago, but that was before my time

    Sure wish we only had to play the likes of Canada and Trinidad to qualify!
     
  17. GasPed

    GasPed A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2009
    Messages:
    1,015
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Completely agree that Klinsmann's long-term vision was the right one, or at least on the right track. But as a manager, his constant bizarre lineup and formation revisions were a very poor fit with the current crop of (entitled) players. I think they were basically confused, disoriented and pretty much demotivated. And I have no doubt that if Klinsmann continued at the helm, their record in the Hex would've been even worse...

    ...Although you're right, at least he would've played Johnson. But let's face it, Arena wanted to play with "his guys", doing it "his way" to prove he was still the man - classic case of ego triumphing over common sense. I mean picking Feilhaber over Johnson? Omar Gonzalez over Geoff Cameron? Just dumb.

    Ultimately though, just another example of how ego and money rules U.S. Soccer. And while it's possible this setback becomes a catalyst for a complete teardown/rebuild, I think it's equally possible it could result in a big drop in public interest and revenue/funding for US Soccer, the MLS, developmental programs/participation, etc. Or maybe both will happen.
     
  18. GasPed

    GasPed A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2009
    Messages:
    1,015
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    48
    We (Canada) didn't make the Hex. So they had to play tough teams like Panama and Honduras to qualify. Just want to clarify that.
     
  19. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    20,074
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Klinsmann is a "coach" for the short term and get a soccer program boosted. He made a lot of changes in Germany which have provided successful soccer on a national level. But to use the basis created you need a coach. Loew was the man for Germany. He took the program to the next level. Most people say that he was the 'real' coach during the miracle summer of 06 anyways.

    The US should have implemented Klinsmann's changes and then should have moved on with an internationally experienced coach who would give this team an identity. They held on to Klinsmann too long and then replaced him with Arena who is more famous for his arrogant snotty attitude. The National team has no identity. It is a program with no direction.

    In regards to Panama: Even with a Panama win the US could have moved on. Take care of your own business first. A team losing to T&T has no business in the WC. You may have an argument if that 'goal' would have been allowed for T&T and it would have had a direct effect on the US chances (kinda like France). But the US had their destiny in their own hands.
     
  20. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2004
    Messages:
    14,651
    Likes Received:
    277
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Just saw this thread but this cycle was a disaster as Jurgen really alienated the MLS players and the internatiinal players. Then when Bruce came in he didnt try to bridge that gap. Bruce also didnt do a good job of bringing in a much needed influx of talebt.

    Gulati needs gone, and the US needs someone as coach that wont make the pool into an MLS vs the World issue
     
  21. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    20,074
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree. Like I said: Klinsmann is a real short term solution with the purpose of reorganizing the outside surrounding the national team and wave the pom-poms for some new excitement. Tactical he is a loser, When he was coach at Bayern Munich the players literally coached themselves. Klinsmann contribution was limited to cheer leading "go get them boys". :roflmao

    Going back to Arena was a major mistake. Since the US does not have the foundation like other soccer nations and does not have coaches with international pedigree they have to look outside.
    No way around it.

    I don't know why Gulati was elected in the first place much less re-elected. The guy has no clue about soccer and with all due respect India is known more for cricket than soccer.
     
  22. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2004
    Messages:
    14,651
    Likes Received:
    277
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Now the good news is we have a lot of good toung prospects. Another issue wad the lack of good pkayers after 89 and before 95. There were some but not a lot. The refusal to move on from Howard/Guzan was an issue too.

    Sucks short term and it also sucks that it took this to force change. Let me reiterate i think the US talent pool is as good as its ever been i just think our last too ciaches have been very narrow minded in who they select. This isnt a huge rebuild but a chsnge in philosphy is needed.

    Claudio Reyna said it best when he said we were too arrogant. I think that goes for both players and coach
     
  23. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    20,074
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I wouldn't mind seeing him in some function with US Soccer. Maybe a GM-type position like Bierhoff for the German National Team.
     
  24. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    20,074
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Holy cow. Italy stays home as well. Failed in playoffs vs Sweden (0-1; 0-0).

    I changed the thread title.
     
  25. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Just not fair to throw Italy and Chile in the same boat as the U.S. Qualifying in Europe and South America is much tougher than CONCACAF.

    Italy finished 2nd to Spain, 5 points back and lost the 2nd place qualifiers to Sweden, who finished 2nd, 4 points behind France.

    We all know CONMEBOL is as tough as any qualification group in the world. Chile not being in the WC is surprising but not unreasonable

    The U.S. not being there is inexcusable.

    U.S. lost to Trinidad and Tobago with qualification on the line, finished behind both Panama and Honduras, and lost home games to Mexico and Costa Rica.

    Still embarrasing to type.
     
  26. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    18,236
    Likes Received:
    2,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Italy are a mess but its not even in the same universe as the US not getting out a weak America group
     
  27. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    20,074
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    WTF? Where did I compare them? Good lord.

    Oh yeah, Ireland stays home as well. (Don't want to compare Ireland to Italy though).
     
    Kdawg954 likes this.
  28. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    21,582
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry man lol

    Arguably the lowest moment in U.S. sports history and nobody cared after about 12 hours.
     
    phins_4_ever likes this.
  29. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    18,236
    Likes Received:
    2,214
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Didnt know the republic got knocked out aswell. Beat 1-5 at home by Denmark? That is hilarious
     
  30. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2004
    Messages:
    14,651
    Likes Received:
    277
    Trophy Points:
    83
    there are some similarities with the US and Italy failing... and even the Netherlands but they are apples to oranges comparisons. All 3 kind of needed this to change culture.

    Now that being said I do think the youth players who are going to be introduced in the next 4 years are pretty damn good. We all know about Pulisic, but you also have Weston McKinney, Tyler Adams.and Cameron Carter-Vickers who are all very top notch prospects. You also have guys in their early to mid 20's like Deandre Yedlin, John Brooks, Bobby Wood, Jordan Morris, Kellyn Accosta, and Paul Arriola who are becoming regulars and then guys like Kenny Saief, Christian Roldan, Dom Dwyer, Matt Miazga, Lynden Gooch, and Kelyn Rowe who could/should be regulars.

    Also there are youth prospects that are getting some hype. Josh Sargeant had a great u-17 and u-20 World Cup and signed with Werder Bremen. Ayo Akinola is on trial with PSV and impressing. Andrew Carleton and Tim Weah (George's son) were named 2 of the top 60 prospects in the world. Now obviously doesn't mean much but we've got people making noise as youth prospects who are breaking into first teams and looking good.

    We just need to make a smart hire. As much as I'd love David Wagner not happening, so it should be Greg Berhalter, Caleb Porter, or Jason Kreis in all honesty
     
    phins_4_ever likes this.
  31. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    20,074
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And that is where I see the failure. You can have all the talent in the world. If you can't develop the talent and don't use the talent the right way it is all for naught.

    Personally I like to see Ramos moved up into a GM-type position much like Bierhoff in Germany. Ramos is already coaching the U20 and as u stated there is some great talent coming up. He would be an important link between the young talent and the USNT.
    As coach I probably would lean towards someone who has international experience as a player and/or coach.

    You are right that all three countries have in common the need for change. I doubt that Italy and Netherlands will change much. Netherlands already failed to qualify for the last Euro and did not change at all. Italy is generally to stubborn. Neither country has a deep youth pool. Their professional teams are purchased and not much is done in youth development of Italian talent. They rather buy big international players and leave their youth undeveloped.
    Germany made a complete change after they failed to survive the preliminary at Euro 2004. Almost every pro-Team has a soccer academy now. The link between the men's national team and the youth teams are almost seamless. They won the Confed Cup 2017 with literally a U-21 team. The coach decided to let the young ones play and compete with the best and leave most of the regulars at home. The talent pool is so deep that the U-21 playing the 2017 Euro at the same time won the tournament with a B-Team. Technically Germany should have won the Euro 2016 but they failed to turn their dominant performance against France into goals. Change? You bet. They scored an average of 4.3 goals per game in qualification and is the only team winning all 10 qualifiers. Coach Loew's biggest problem will be the decision who to take to Russia. They could have fielded two teams and both would have qualified.

    A change like that I want to see in the US. Develop a culture throughout all national teams and narrow the transition gap.

    The first step is to get rid of Gulati. The guy is running the show since 2006 and nothing has changed, it has gotten worse. US Soccer is internationally no better than in 2006.
    Eric Wynalda's name is floating around as a possible candidate. For now the US has to rely on their best players and smartest players of the past. The players who have played internationally, have given their best on the field for the US. You have to rely on their expertise and desire to move the US up in the ranks. We need a complete overhaul like Germany did in 2004.
     
  32. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2004
    Messages:
    14,651
    Likes Received:
    277
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Letting Ramos shape the u-20s was good, but I remember it starting very poorly (mostly cause Jurgen was demanding he cap all the Mexican American kids playing in Liga Mex.. most of whom were not great prospects) but with the improving MLS academies Tab has done a good job.

    But again the big issue was that the last two years became a **** measuring competition between Jurgen and MLS, and in the end the Nats were the true losers.
     
  33. phins_4_ever

    phins_4_ever E12 FH Tailgate Gang Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    20,074
    Likes Received:
    1,536
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They kept Klinsmann too long. He should have been gone after 2 years. His job in Germany was changing the culture, bring hope back to an old and crumbling system. He brought the GM position to the National team, hired psychologist and conditioning coaches from a completely different field. He was laughed about. He was the cheerleader without pom poms and skirt. Loew was always the coach and the tactician. After 2 years the system was established and the first fruit of the labor was harvested. They call it the '2006 summer fairy tale' in Germany. Nothing was left for him to do and he left (though most think that he was pressured to leave).
    The US should have seen that he was not a coach. His only real coaching job (Bayer Munich ) was not just a disaster but a joke. It was so bad that the players did all the tactical planning.
    The US system was not old and crumbling. It was non-existent. When he was hired I applauded the move. I was sure they would just use him as a cheerleader to build up some enthusiasm and build the foundation surrounding the National Team. But for some reason we thought he was actually a coach.

    I am a huge fan of Tab and what he has done with the young players. But you cannot stop the development. That's why I want him as a GM type. He should hire his successor and all coaches involved with the development of young players with the National Team. He should even be involved in picking the new headcoach. Communication and being in sync is everything.
    Wynalda as President and Ramos as GM and in 2 years we will be playing competitively and will have a good stable of young and upcoming players who will be developed properly.
     

Share This Page