A Look At The 2013 Offseason

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Elliott 1, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. Elliott 1

    Elliott 1 Banned Hammered

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    Jake Long is going to have to walk. He is going to get a lot of money based on his previous years, but he obviously isn't the player he once was. Get comfortable with the Dolphins moving forward withot their All-Pro tackle.

    Fasano is a mediocre at best TE. He will never be great or elite; at his best he is good, mostly because of blocking.

    I have high hopes for Jonas Gray next year and I think Bush will be used more as a WR/RB next year. Maybe return punts.

    Sean Smith,Reggie Bush and Brian Hartline may all ask for too much money. I wouldn't look for the Dolphins to overpay these guys next off season. I think Hartline could be a good WR, but he is just too weak and he isn't getting it done in the weight room during the offseason. IMO, he lacks dedication. He had all offseason and most of the preseason to work on his upper body, but he obviously didn't. He is a fraggin weakling.

    Tony Mcdaniel isn't a fit in the 4-3. He may go. Hopefully Matt Moore returns and the Dolphins just keep two QB's.

    FA's I would add. With Long,Fasano,Hartline, McDaniel and some other veterans gone, there should be significant cap room, but Starks is going to cost us.

    WR....Greg Jennings....He isn't young anymore and he is having a terrible contract year with the groin injury so he should be affordable. He may enter free agency in the 2nd tier, but I like him for a front loaded 4 year contract.

    CB Keenan Lewis ...The cap deficient Steelers won't be able to offer him what he is worth. Lewis is 26 and has developed into one of the league's better cover corners.He just keeps consistently improving. I want this one more than any other!

    DE Michael Johnson.... A perfect fit IMO. His acquisition would allow Odrick to return to full time DT duties and eliminate the need for Mcdaniel. Johnson is 25 and he continues to get better every year.

    OG...Kraig Urbik.......Hopefully he stays under the radar and will be affordable. 28 and just entering his prime. Jerry needs to compete at the OT position IMO.


    Draft 2013: It's looking like a possible top 12 pick anyway. Could be as high as the 4th pick. I'll go with 7th for now.

    1st...........Luke Joeckel...OT...Most of the bad teams have solid LT's, no really; even the Eagles have Peters returning. It is highly likely that Sherman is reunited with another alum next spring.

    2nd.........Cordarrelle Patterson....WR......I think he will declare, maybe not.


    2nd.........Dion Simms....TE....Like having a OT who can run routes and catch. The word beast was invented for guys like this.

    3rd.........Zavier Gooden...OLB...Former safety with 4.4 speed. Coverage specialist and ST's ace, but could be special later on.

    3rd..........Baccari Rambo....S...Might be an addict but maybe he'll grow up in a year or two. I'd risk a late 3rd.

    4th..........Brian Winters.....OT....Jonathan Martin looks bad to me. Winters could blow up the combine and go much higher.

    5th..........Montari Hughes...DT....Big talent problem child? Another risk, WTH, it's only a 5th.

    6th..........Dustin Hopkins....K.......Carpenter stinks.

    7th..........Brad Madison.....DE.....If he could ever stay healthy?

    Roster:
    QB...........Tannehill,Moore
    RB............Bush,Miller,Gray,Thomas,Thigpen.
    FB............Lane
    TE............Simms,Clay,Egnew
    WR...........Greg Jennings,Cordarrelle Patterson,Bess,Rishard Matthews,Marlon Moore
    OT............Joeckel,Martin,Winters,Jerry
    OG/C........Pouncey,Incognito,Urbik,Samuda,Chandler Burden.....I thought Samuda looked great in the preseason.

    DT..........Soliai,Starks,Odrick,Hughes,Randall
    DE...........Wake,Johnson,Shelby,Brad Madison
    OLB.........Burnett,Misi,Olivier,Zavier Gooden
    ILB...........Dansby,Spitler
    S.............Jones,Clemons,Rambo,Amaya
    CB...........Smith,Lewis,Marshall,Carroll,Wilson
    K....Dustin Hopkins
    P.....Fields
    LS...Denney
     
  2. SeanSmith24

    SeanSmith24 GREATNESS

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    that team doesn't look like an upgrade at all. we still going to be under 500, we need multiple playmakers to compete in the afc and this team just doesent have that

    kenne lewis is improving but he sucks in coverage, steelers would be glad to let him walk. greg jenning is injury prone and i dont think he hill ever be what he once was.
     
  3. TruePoizon

    TruePoizon Well-Known Member

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    We can ditch Jake Long, but Jake Long is still better than many other OTs in the league. Tell him to take a huge paycut or walk. If hes smart, he'll take a huge paycut.

    WR? I'll take Dwayne Bowe without hesitation.

    We need CB, WR, pass rushing defenders, and an OG badly.
     
  4. BillsFanInPeace

    BillsFanInPeace FinHeaven VIP

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    I would hate to lose Urbik specially to the fins but he may end up leaving B-Lo.

    Not because he is under the radar. If that is the case Bills can resign him. But because we have two top OGs hitting the market in Levitre and Urbik. The feeling is we won't be able to get them both signed specially when he have Byrd also hitting the Market.
     
  5. Elliott 1

    Elliott 1 Banned Hammered

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    Steelers are #1 in pass defense in the NFL; and that is without palomalu playing most of the time or hobbled when he does. Ike Taylor isn't any better than he has ever been and Ryan Clark is old news.

    The reason the Steelers are better in pass coverage this year is Lewis. Tomlin himself has said as much, but I'm hoping lots of people are thinking just like you.
     
  6. 13Dolfan87

    13Dolfan87 Scout Team Donator

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    Keep Hartline and Starks. Let Smith and Bush walk. I'd say let Long, too, but then we have to ****ing waste a high draft pick on a tackle so ugh..hopefully he signs a reasonable deal - just throw a bunch of BS bonuses into it.
     
  7. Elliott 1

    Elliott 1 Banned Hammered

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    I doubt Jake will sign for any kind of a home town discount. I would be shocked if the Dolphins gave him a huge contract but I would also be shocked if somebody doesn't give him at least 9 mil a year.

    I like Bowe as well but he is young and big and strong.; three things Jennings will never be. I think Jennings could go as much as half the price Bowe and Wallace go at; and just maybe he and Philbin had a good connection in cheese land. I'm not privy, but maybe, just maybe we could get him at a discount and have enough cap to sign Keenan Lewis and another veteran corner. IMO, all our corners are easily replaced especially Jimmy Wilson and Carroll.

    Hopefully Richard Marshall recovers fully and returns to play at a high level at nickel. Maybe Marshall could take a pay cut.

    I don't understand the last line of your post because those are the exact 4 positions I addressed with the FA signings. ??
     
  8. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    My off season starts with signing Bowe, Jennings, or Wallace (in that order), and keeping Hartline. I'm re-signing Devlin (who Philbin really likes), and maybe Moore on a short term deal. Moore is not an ideal WCO QB but, he has worked well with RT, and is a VG vet backup. I can take or leave Bush. We saw what he did last year with better blocking, and he should be a good fit. I leave this call to Philbin. I keep Fasano, who does many good things for the team, which many do not realize.

    I cut ties with Long and Cog. They just do not fit, regardless of money. Martin moves to LT, I sign a vet LG (like a Levitre from Buff), am a player for a RT like Volmer (28 from the Pats) or drafting a RT with one of our 2nd round picks. I'm keeping Jerry, who is athletic for his size, as I belive our Marine OL coach will make him above average next year.

    I keep Starks, and would consider using the franchise tag on him (around $8M). Odrick has disappointed, no matter where he plays he has to beat the guy in front of him and make tackles. At this point, I would like to sign a vet pass rusher but, want to see more of Vernon, who I really like. I'm good with our LB's for next year but, would draft a good one if available in the 3rd round.

    In the secondary, Jones is great, and I'm good with Cemons and Wilson moving back to S. I keep Smith, who matches up well with some #1 WR's but not others. CB is my #1 pick to go with him. I see nothing worthwhile in FA. FWIW, Smith would cost over $10M to franchise.

    I would be looking to get something for Cog (one year left on his contract), maybe a 5th. I would also like to be able to get something for Long or Smith (f we cannot re-sign him) by using the franchise tag. With so many teams, with different systems, needing OL help, I have to think we could get something back for Long. That seems better than a tag on Smith.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2012
  9. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    lose smith, long, carp, cog, bush...get rid of em all...use the top pick on a cb which it now looks like we can get jonathon banks with cause this secondary is desperate for a playmaker with ball skills in the unit start carroll opposite him take the lumps you get with a rookie corner...

    sign one of bowe who's what we need in the red zone wallace who's got the speed to keep d's honest or jennings who gives you all of that...one of these guys should be the top offseason free agent target...

    draft a rb or get one in the building that runs angry and with good size and gets north south...hell give me chris ivory on the cheap i don't care...just no more of this crap...

    use one of those top 2 rounders on another wr and sign hartline and fasano...give clay and egnew thur next years camp to show that they belong at te...don't waste a high round pick on a te til you give these kids one more camp

    think about canning mike sherman for his insistence on going base 2 wr sets and running i form out of them while everyone else gets us in nickle on early downs to run with success against us of late...wake up you dope
     
  10. Twitches Brew

    Twitches Brew A True Fan

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    Too early for this; I could see lots of guys improving, especially Long. And it's hard for a losing team to let starters at key positions (Long and Smith) walk. You let them go and you open up even bigger holes at two of the most important positions.
     
  11. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    forgot to add matt moore in the lose category...no thanks
     
  12. moley

    moley Well-Known Member

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    you talking alot of sense !!! long can walk ,smith can as well fasano i have been saying on other forums for 3 years is average!!!and got wiped for it!! and now the same people here are saying what i said ,dohhhhhhhhhhhh

    bush is 50/50 call for me ,i prob resign only cause d thomas is not a good fit!

    hartline and starks are the only 1`s to resign for me

    ingocnito ,carpenter, and maybe marshall i would release! which saves a chunk of money there all been poor

    but if jeff ireland is still here next off season look for us to resign long and smith 1st and let a top 5 dt and our top wr free to do what ever they like!!
     
  13. dolfin530

    dolfin530 Student of the Game

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    Seriously, he had an appendectomy followed by some issues because of it. He couldn't have worked out if he wanted to.
     
  14. moley

    moley Well-Known Member

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    you really think anyone would trade for incognito and his contract? and his been piss poor this this year !!!! for me its just best to boot long and smith into touch "toute suite"
     
  15. ptgold

    ptgold Active Member

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    I agree with everything you said except this. Do some research about what actually happened to Hartline in the offseason, its actually a miracle hes playing at all!
     
  16. ptgold

    ptgold Active Member

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    I wouldnt let go of Long or Smith either......2 more holes to worry about in the offseason? no thanks
     
  17. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Everyone saw Cog play well for us the last two years. He just does not fit with Philbin, and his contract is not a big one. I think it's around $3.5-4M.
     
  18. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    I agree with everyone but Smith, I'd keep him as your number 2 corner.
     
  19. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Agreed. I think Smith on D is similar to Hartline on O in being VG #2's, and an occasional #1, depending the match ups. IF we do not keep either one, I don't see getting better by having to look for two CB's and WR's. That makes no sense.
     
  20. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    Funny how people are saying we can't let Long and Smith go cause that would give us 2 holes to fill. What do you guys think LT and Corner are at this point? That's right, those 2 positions right now are holes as neither of them is playing well. Long was a disgrace last night and has been all year long. We can get a cheaper guy to get pushed around for less money. That's what Long has done this year, he has been pushed aroubd all year. As far as Smith, he's not a number 1 so don't pay him as one. How many plays has he ever made?

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  21. GasPed

    GasPed Well-Known Member

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    I don't see a lot of downside in letting Jake go right now. We can get similar performance for a lot less money next year.

    Here's an intriguing longshot - move Martin to LT (and hope he plays better there), and look at someone like Jovan Olafioye (from the CFL BC Lions) as a potential RT replacement. 6-6, 325, long arms, good feet/athleticism. Raw but very teachable, and probably pretty cheap. Something to consider...
     
  22. moley

    moley Well-Known Member

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    its above $5m!! with his bonus according to https://twitter.com/nyjetscap

    good luck with the trade!
    its behond me why any1 would trade for him when they know he will be released!!!
    and imo even your $4m is alot for a guard especially a very limited 1 like richie
     
  23. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Thanks for the cap hit info. I just used Cog's $4M salary, without the signing bonus. The $4M is what a team would be trading for. Don't know if we can get something, and a potential 5th rounder makes no difference to our team.
     
  24. Regulus

    Regulus Rookie

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    They are already huge holes. Why pay them
     
  25. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    good luck getting him to sign for #2 corner money though...although his play of late has been bad enough that maybe that's the best he can do...i don't know...all i do know is the guys stunk up the joint of late...every stop route smith overran yesterday everytime stevie johnson geared down put his foot in the ground and used his arm to clear space smith took 2 more steps and was late recovering...overran everything...couldn't find the ball had no feel for what johnson was doing...
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Most new GMs coming from other teams would focus on keeping Jake Long, Randy Starks and Sean Smith.

    Jake Long and Randy Starks would be re-signed because they're two of the very few players the Dolphins have on roster that are universally respected around the league. Whatever new GM comes here is going to be very defensive. He's coming into a new situation (probably a first time GM), doesn't know how much winning talent he'll have at his disposal, and so he's going to want to keep the few guys he already knows to be really good. You can worry about resource allocation some time down the road when you've engaged your own talent acquisition program long enough to actually be bumping up into your resource constraints (i.e. salary cap). The Dolphins aren't close to there yet. The concept of this roster having trouble staying under the salary cap is laughable.

    Sean Smith would be kept simply because of the universal league-wide emphasis on keeping and acquiring talented corners. The passing game is too important to NFL success. Smith is not universally respected by any means but the Dolphins' lack of corner talent coupled with the league emphasis on corners would outweigh the chance that whatever new GM comes in wasn't particularly a fan of Smith's when he came out of the Draft.

    Guys like Reggie Bush, Brian Hartline and Anthony Fasano...flip a coin. Some prospective GMs would be fans of theirs and many would not.

    Dan Carpenter, Richard Marshall, Richie Incognito and Kevin Burnett would be prime candidates to be cut so that the new GM could try and bring in some of "his" guys. And it goes without saying that a Tony McDaniel would be allowed to walk on his expiring contract.

    Matt Moore would be a coin flip. Up to him whether he wants to go ahead and still try and be a starter somewhere else (unlikely to have very many opportunities laid out before him) or if he'll accept a backup's contract to continue being the backup in Miami.
     
  27. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    You are assuming Ross is going to make a change at GM. Not so sure he is going to do that.
     
  28. Locke

    Locke They looked like strong hands.

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    He hinted to it earlier when he said that everyone, including the GM, is evaluated on a yearly basis.

    Look, the fact of the matter is he traded away our number one receiver and number one cornerback, and didn't replace them. I understand the desire to get Marshall and Vontae off the roster, they weren't Philbin guys, it makes sense. But when you do that and then fail to do anything to replace them, that's bush-league. Then he went into the season knowing that this team was going to run a ZBS along the o-line, and he gave Philbin Incognito and Jerry, the 2 least athletic guards in the continental U.S. The fact of the matter is, he drafted a QB number 1 overall, and he did nothing to help the kid grow. For the first time all season, I saw Tannehill frustrated last night. His receivers aren't getting separation, so he has nowhere to go with the ball. His guards are letting him down, which leaves him with no ground game and pressure up the middle when he drops back to pass. This is stunting his growth. Look what Indy, Seattle, and Washington did for their rookie QBs. They went out and got them weapons. I'm as objective as posters go, but this is my last straw. I'm tired of Ireland being reactionary. I want a GM who does things first, not waits to see what works for everyone else, then copy it 3-4 seasons too late...
     
  29. moley

    moley Well-Known Member

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    its very rare to hit on a 5th rounder but 5th rnd is always handy if we need to move up!
     
  30. Exuro

    Exuro Well-Known Member

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    Hartline was deathly ill this off season. Frankly it's amazing he's as productive as he is right now. How out of touch can be a person be to make comments like these?
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think Jeff Ireland's firing is a foregone conclusion.

    Listen, try and be objective about this. Of all the important people in the organization, whose *** is the hottest? Just answer the question honestly. Ireland's clearly got the biggest bull's eye on his back.

    Now also honestly answer this. After seeing how negative everything has gotten after two losses in a row, and now three losses in a row...think to yourself what the environment is going to be like after the Dolphins play the Seahawks, Patriots, 49ers and Patriots again.

    It's going to be bad. Even winning games against the Jaguars and Bills wouldn't bring anyone off the brink after having lost 7 of the team's final 9 games. And that's if the team can in fact win both of those games, and I think it's fair to question that.

    You're Steve Ross, you've got no attendance by the fans whatsoever, you've got a team that is even worse this year than they were last year if that can be believed, and the fans are directing like 95% of their ire toward the man who has spent the last five years as the architect of this losing roster.

    I'm sorry, Ireland's fate is sealed.
     
  32. luduporcu

    luduporcu Banned Hammered

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    Agree w/a lot of what you say, disagree w/some.

    FASANO's an excellent blocker. He's mediocre as a pass catcher. I/d/k the TE you mentioned, but if he is a legit blocker AND pass-catcher, he's worth it. FASANO is, and always should've been, the 2nd blocking TE, since he DOES have some ability as a pass-catcher, which MASTRUD doesn't. (MASTRUD goes) I see your man, FASANO, CLAY and EGGNOG as the TE corps, assuming that both CLAY and EGGNOG show more as "seams" threat TEs. Hopefully at least 1 of them develops and stays.

    The RB situation is truly up in the air, but it isn't necessarily bad. DT stays, and L MILLER gets more "touches", to see what he's got. I agree w/you about J GRAY: if he makes it all the way back from his injury, he could be REALLY good. BUSH stays if he doesn't demand a fortune to re-sign. If he does, bye-bye.Certainly, his role should change, away from running i/s the Tackles.

    As to DE/DT, the cold, hard facts are that MIAMI's "front 4" doesn't get nearly enough consistent pressure on the QB. The "ODRICK experiment" at RDE is i/m/o a failure. Try him at DT: he has the size, and a lot of speed. Playing him there means he and STARKS play 1 DT, and Big PAUL and RANDALL play the other. McDANIEL serves us best by leaving and saving us considerable "cap" room. Try O VERNON at RDE, and see how he does. Getting pressure from the RDE is important: otherwise WAKE will be double/triple teamed all day, every day.

    At CB, SMITH and CARROLL stay: hopefully, CARROLL will end up as our 3rd or 4th CB. WILSON sucks at CB. If we keep 5, he stays; if not, he goes. That leaves 2 spots. At least ONE (I say TWO) must come from the Draft. I'm not concentrating on the Draft much just yet. F/A and the Draft must be a co-ordinated effort...and F/A comes first, timewise. At S, I like JONES: he's our starting SS. CLEMONS should only be a reserve, or "2nd String"...if that. I'd consider MARSHALL AS A FS, if he makes it back from his back injury. Otherwise, no! MIAMI's FS problem must be rectified.

    I'd go after WALLACE from those cap-troubled STEELERS, along with K LEWIS. A solid zone-blocking G would be nice, too, if one becomes available.

    As to J LONG, it all depends on his price. If it's under $10 Million, I'd keep him; if not, no. It's that simple. MIAMI could give JAKE a 4 year deal w/50% guaranteed, to give him "security" in exchange for megabucks. But his price MUST come down.

    My draft preferences depend on what is done in F/A. I am inclined to trade down if we end up w/a pick in the top 10. I'd be looking for a 1st Round pick somewhere from 11 to 18, and a 2nd or 3rd. Beyond CB, I'd be looking for OLBs to replace either/both of BURNETT and MISI. (BURNETT goes first) I am not happy w/the play of the o/s LBs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2012
  33. Elliott 1

    Elliott 1 Banned Hammered

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    I agree, Ireland must go.

    I disagree with your perspective on the mindset of a new GM.

    I think the last thing a new GM would want to do is risk signing a declining veteran to an enormous contract that would greatly diminish his cap freedom.

    He could sign three 2nd tier veterans(his guys) for the cap spent on Long if they have to give him Joe Thomas money or even something around what he was getting from his obscene rookie contract.

    Why would the new guy want an instant rep of being a pushover and overpaying under performing veterans.

    If the Dolphins do indeed end up picking in the top ten, I don't think anyone would balk at denying fat contracts to guys who were inconsistent,failed to make plays, or were just plain bad.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I don't see how Jake Long in his 5th year qualifies as a "declining veteran".

    Agree to disagree on the mindset of a new GM. I think that Jake Long as the kind of talent that is universally appreciated across the league is exactly the kind of guy a new GM is going to want to keep because he'll have no idea whether he can win with the bunch of mediocre players on the roster, and so he'll want to keep the weapon that he knows works.
     
  35. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Are you serious or, just sarcastically playing? :)
     
  36. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    I think we need to let Jake Long go and someone else can overbid for his services. I think we could draft Luke Joeckel, LT, Texas A&M to replace Long. If not Joeckel, we could draft another A&M lineman, Jake Matthews. I know we need a WR, but there are not many LT's out there like Joeckel or Matthews. In Round Two of the draft I would go WR and CB. CB's like Xavier Rhodes (Florida State) and David Amerson (NC State) should be there in the second round. WR Tavon Austin of Oregon would add a lot of speed for us, or maybe a taller WR like Cordarelle Patterson of Tennessee. Then get a top pass rusher or tight end.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I go back and forth on the Jake Long decision. I've been espousing the strategy of letting him walk for a year now but I'm starting to come to the opposite side by virtue of the lack of talent on this roster. I don't like the idea of allocating 10% of your salary structure to a left tackle, and I sure as hell didn't like that idea before the Dolphins had a quarterback that was worth blocking for. But let's be honest, the Dolphins are still miles away from the efficient frontier as far as having so much talent that fine points about which positions you allocate how much of your salary structure to actually matters. The very idea that the Dolphins would have trouble keeping all this "talent" under the salary cap...is laughable. So until we actually acquire enough talent for that to be a going concern, I don't see anything wrong with keeping one of the best left tackles in the game around in order to help your team win.

    On the other hand, if you decide that you've got tangible, finite and highly specific options for directing the resources that would otherwise get tied up in Jake Long...I'm certainly willing to weigh that. In other words, in my opinion, I'm not buying the idea that you just let Jake Long walk for the sake of letting Jake Long walk. I think there needs to be a choice set up where you say we can either A) Re-sign Jake Long, or B) Get a 1st round draft choice for him in trade which we then use on Luke Joeckel and use the saved money to sign Mike Wallace. The choice to me has to be specific and sure...not vague. You have to be sure that you have the ability to sign Mike Wallace and you won't get caught bidding $8 million a year and losing him because he wants $9 million...or something like that. And that's if you even decide that the combination of Joeckel and Wallace is better than Long.
     
  38. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    IF Long were still one of the best LT's in the game, I would still have a problem in re-signing him because he does not fit well into this WCO. IF we fire Ireland and Philbin, and IF we go in a different direction in scheme, he would be worth considering at a reduced rate.

    Otherwise, no reason to keep him, no matter the price. High prices LT's do not win games in today's NFL, Play Makers do, and he is not one.
     
  39. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    He's got no shot of keeping his job anymore.
     
  40. Dick Pepperwood

    Dick Pepperwood A True Fan

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    Long, Cog, and Daniel Thomas need to Go.

    Ireland Too. We need to get Playmakers! Not Offensive Tackles Man. Pouncey, Martin, and Long are All First Round Picks Yet are O-Line Sucks. We need to keep people like Wes Welker and Brandon Marshall, not let them Go Dude.
     

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