A reflection of recent Parcells drafts

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dlockz, Mar 14, 2008.

  1. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Since we all are argueing about who we will pick or who we should pick, I figured a study of the Cowboys drafts that Parcells was a part of.

    2003 nfl draft
    1(4)- Terence Newman CB -Solid pick very good NFL CB, Not better than Trufant who was picked 6 picks later but a 1 time pro bowler.
    2(38) Al Johnson C- Started 2 years out of 4 , was nothing special but took up space on the line. Lost his job in 2006 , started for Arizona last year, Anquan Boldin WR still on board
    3(69) Jason witten TE- Great pick pro bowl TE
    4(109) Bradie James LB- Nothing special but a 4th rounder that is a starter at ILB, is solid player
    6(178) BJ Tucker DB- Gone after two years, marginal player
    7(186) Zuriel Smith Wr-Was returnman , gone after rookie season
    7(219) Justin Bates G- did not make team


    3 long term starters, only missed on his second rounder. Solid draft

    2004 draft

    2(43)Juius Jones RB- solid runningback 1 1000 yard season, left as free agent
    2(52) Jacob rodgers T-God awful pick, played in 2 games out of league, Max Starks was available.
    3(83)Stephen peterman G Cut in 2006, awful pick Stacy Andrews,jacob Bell and Jake Scott available.
    4(121) Bruce Thornton CB did nothing out of NFL, Jason David CB a few picks later,
    5(144) Sean Ryan TE started 2 games 0 catches traded for 7th rounder
    also not a good pick
    7(205) Nate Jones CB Hasnt played much but 7th rounder who stuck for 4 years
    7(216)Patrick Crayton WR very solid wr for a 7th round pick , started last year
    7(221) Jacque Reeves CB turned into a starter last year overrared but great for a 7th rounder.

    A lot of wasted early picks but had as good a seventh as you could ever expect. Bad draft though when 4 of your top 5 picks dont contribute at all.

    2005 draft
    1(11) Demarcus Ware LB great pick all pro player
    1(20) Marcus Spears DE mediocre first round pick, Castillo better player
    2(42) Kevin Burnett LB been backup so far 2 starts in three years, passed on Lofa Tatupo
    4(109) Marion Barber Rb great 4th round pick pro bowler last year
    4(132) chris canty DE An ok defensive end , starter though. Trent Cole was still available
    6(208) justin Beaurealt CB did not make team
    6(209) rob petitti T started as rookie but by default cut the next year
    7(224) Jat Ratliff NT started last season, nothing special but a starter non the less and has potential


    Draft with two top players but badly missed on mid first rounder and second rounder.


    2006

    1(18) Bobby Carpenter LB pretty big bust so far, passed on Cromartie and Manny Lawson and Demeco Ryans
    2(53) Anthony Fasano TE weird pick with Witten here but has been ok in backup role. Scheffler and Pope were better Te's and passed on some real good players Devin Hester and Jones Drew.
    3(92) Jason Hatcher DE developemental player nothing special
    4(125) Skyler Green WR horrid pick did nothing
    5(138) Pat Watkins S best pick of thier draft started 14 games as rookie
    6(182) Montavious Stanly DT did not make team
    7(211) Pat McQuistan T still on team
    7(224)EJ Whitley G did not make team

    awful wannstadt like draft

    I would say they drafted some very good players but have had some momumental busts early in the draft. Definately have not shown to be so much above the rest of the league in drafting but have aquired some pro bowl type players such as Witten, Ware and Newman.

    Maybe we should trade our second round picks and move up in first with his second round history overall lol.
     
  2. kardashian

    kardashian Member

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    them some UGLY drafts.. im scared
     
  3. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    If you think those are ugly check out his '97-'99 drafts w/ the Jets.
     
  4. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin PowerHungryMo'fo

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    Notice that Parcells get tunnel vision over guys that fit his 3-4?

    Rgardless if they can actually play in the NFL? they just have the right size/skillset?
     
  5. Dfan06

    Dfan06 Seasoned Veteran

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    [mod] stay on topic, no trash talk [/mod]
     
  6. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 FinHeaven Elite

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    I've said it from day one, Parcells scares me, when he has the power with the picks, he does not do very well.

    Hopefully Ireland will have more say.
     
  7. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    I believe that Bill and Ireland will make the picks together with input from Sparano....this is a deep draft at corner,OT and DE and there're a few good TE's so I'm hoping we'll do well.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  8. burger13

    burger13 FinHeaven VIP

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    thanks for the research.....but I don't agree with the many of the comments. Overall, I don't agree with the whole 'passed on player x player y'. It completely ignores need and fitting the system. As good as a player as lofa tatupu is, he wasn't a fit for what Parcells looks for in a LB.

    'Trent Cole was still available'....lol. First off Canty is a stud. Second, I would absolutely LOVE to see Trent cole try to play DE in Parcells' 3-4 defense...not gonna happen.

    Bradie James, 'nothing special'. James is a very good player and is entrenched as a starter, and IMO a future Pro Bowler.

    Jacob Rogers was a bust, but because of injury. bad job by the Cowboy medical staff who incorrectly gauged the extent of the injury.

    anthony fasono pick....I tend to think that they have gotten exactly what they wnated out of Fasano. He was picked as a second TE and a good blocker.
     
  9. ATVZ400

    ATVZ400 Well-Known Member

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    Does Bill P have final say on draft picks??
     
  10. jmorgan6977

    jmorgan6977 Puck the Fats

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    Nice research, but you know hindsight is 20/20. I am sure if he had som of those back he would make a different move. Hell if we had the last 5 years back we would be a super bowl contender.

    Fact is you pick based on your needs and players that fit your plans. You do not always have the luxury to just pick BPA.

    Bill did more than just draft players, he signed free agents. He built a team. A team that very well could have won that superbowl last year. I am willing to see if he can do it again. Like I said though great thread great research.
     
  11. sam

    sam Starter

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    I agree that Parcell's drafts, where he had final say, were pretty ugly, fortunately, Ireland's got the final say here. As Ck pointed out a while back, Ireland's influence came into play in the 2005 draft after Lacewell retired in 2004, and that was very good draft.

    I'm really hoping that we draft 2 OL very early, we've seen those later round OL picks here for what seems like forever, and they've been pretty bad.
     
  12. burger13

    burger13 FinHeaven VIP

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    No, Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano are running the show. :winkwink:
     
  13. phinfan33

    phinfan33 A True Fan

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    well,from what i've heard,Ireland's supposed to have a good eye for talent,i hope he does for the teams sake....i don't know what kind of eye for talent Sparano has,but i hope it's a good one...as far as Parcells,i think he's been a great coach,obviously he's picked some good to great players,and some lousy players,every coach&GM has done that....all we as fans can do is watch and see what happens come draft day and hope&pray for the best possible outcome.
     
  14. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Bill is a bit of a bull "but" let hope Ireland can handle him and lets hope Bill has learned that he needs to be handled in that department. As CK posted awile back this all works if Bill is willing to step back and give his staff a chance to step up.
     
  15. Rubbin420

    Rubbin420 Marino for President

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    Ireland and the other guy are the heads of scouting for the Cowboys, Parcells may have final say, but I think he is letting his guys do their job. I didnt see Marion Barber in there, he was a forth round pick or something like that.

    If you think those drafts had bad picks, look up the past 5 drafts of the dolphins.....now that was bad!
     
  16. phinasota

    phinasota Bleed Aqua

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    Man i hope hope Ireland and Saprano (i know its sparano) have the final say. but i think together, they will definatley pull some good picks. You should have done more research. what is the percentage of pics that turns out not good in general? then compare those numbers
     
  17. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic FinHeaven VIP

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    ridiculous post. The whole "xxx was still available" is a useless afterthought. You could make these same arguments about every team's draft over the last 4 years too.

    Here's a comparison: how many starters have they drafted over the last 5 years vs how many we've drafted? See an improvement?
     
  18. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    I'm also hoping we get 2 OL very early.

    Not trying to be a jerk, just asking, but if Ireland's influence came into play in 2005--which was a great draft--was he also responsible for their 2006 draft--which kinda stunk?
     
  19. Waterboy

    Waterboy DolFan

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    That's how all drafts look like. You hit & miss. All you can do is draft the size & talent and have good coaching. Coaching & team concepts make players comfortable & confident. Some guys if drafted buy other teams may still be in the league but something happened that caused a player to lose the mojo that got them there. Again, it's hit and miss. Let's just hope the Dolphin enviroment is one where the team can florish...
     
  20. raving

    raving Starter

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    I appreciate an educated fan like yourself setting the record straight.

    Nice
     
  21. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    I posted this because so many assume because we have Bill Parcells and Ireland that we will have some guys that will be so far above the league as far as drafting and as you can see they really are not some super gurus when it comes to drafting. 7 out of 12 of his first day picks were not good picks, you can compare that to our 5 of 9 bad first day pick during the same period.

    Not one good lineman was drafted during his time although they made very good free agent aquisitions such as Leonard Davis. One of the biggest factors in Dallas having a 13 win season was thier very experienced offensive line.
     
  22. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Why didn't we hire a guy who hits on every pick?.......................................Oh yeah,

    HE DOESN'T EXIST.

    Negative as usual.....nothing new here.

    It takes at least 4 or 5 years minimum to fully evaluate a draft.

    The facts are this, if you look at the Patriots championship teams, their were many key players from the Parcells years on that team.

    If you look at the Cowboys current contending playoff team, it is loaded with players either drafted or brought there by Parcells.
     
  23. sn9ke.eyes

    sn9ke.eyes Starter

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    Good point, we will not be getting a pro-bowler with every pick. I would say people need to temper their expectations but we all know that won't happen. There is no arguing that those 2004 and 2006 Dallas drafts suck, so let's not expect the second coming here.

    As far as Fasano, he's not a bust but do you really need to spend a second round pick on a second tight end with blocking priorities ?

    I think it's very interesting that all the free agent signings have been credited on this site to Bill Parcells yet now some of these past draft decisions are Ireland's.

    I've said it before, Parcells will get all the credit and Ireland will get all the blame.
     
  24. G-Force

    G-Force Hall Of Famer

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    I don't care about the draft or how he has done in FA over the years. I look at his teams win/loss records and the rebuilding of 3 franchises and how fast they got to the playoffs. Whatever he has done it has worked and I expect nothing differant now.
     
  25. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    He has rebuilt teams as a coach though and he's not coaching the dolphins. I like what I have read about Sparano but we don't know until he starts coaching.
     
  26. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    You are actually the one being quite negative, Not once in my post did I say I expect a guy to draft a probowler with ever pick, just showing that the drafts were nothing special and we should temper our enthusiasm with the coming draft. People act like Parcells or Ireland will hit with every draft pick and history shows they like most GM's miss alot. What do you mean you cant judge a draft for 4 or 5 years? Im sure you can judge his 2004 draft quite well since his 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick all got cut by him within a year or two. I think we can agree that there was some bad choices or do I need to wait another year. And yes there may be some better GMs than Jeff Ireland or Bill Parcells, I know thats blasphemy.
     
  27. G-Force

    G-Force Hall Of Famer

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    IMO he should have better drafts then since he don't have to worry about that aspect. No one knows what Sparano can do as a HC but we interviewed some high quality candidates and he was our man so I hope for the best.
     
  28. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Yea the Fasano pick I think was a huge mistake given the team had bigger needs. If the Cowboys had drafted better in 2004 and 2006 they might have been champs this year but you can play the might game all the time.
     
  29. sam

    sam Starter

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    Keep in mind, having influence vs. having final say, is a big difference. Jones had the final say, not Ireland.

    That first pick, Carpenter, from what I've read was a Parcells pick. I really haven't read anything about the others. And how that '06 draft turns out, okay vs. crap, will depend a lot on 1) how Carpenter turns out. He sort of reminds me of Jason Allen, don't really know what he's about until he gets some consistent playing time. 2) Hatcher - drafted way too early. He was a sleeper with potential, a developmental type player behind Canty, Ellis, Spears.

    Fasano I like. They were going to 2 TE packages.

    As for rounds 5-7, you just hope for a keeper. I think they only got one. Watkins, the 6'5" safety, he's been in the rotation, so I'm assuming he's a keeper for now.

    Stanley, I read was supposed to be the future NT, but, an article I read last week said, if you want one of those, you better get one before the end of the 3rd round.

    Any player in the 6th and 7th, from what I can tell, most of the time is pretty much a waste, but hope you get lucky.
     
  30. BiggDolphin

    BiggDolphin Starter

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    OK in defense of Parcells the last two drafts the Cowboys didnt have any glearing needs...they were solid on the offensive line, wide outs, qb and running back and defense they were pretty tough also. Just saying he brought in the players that made the Cowboys who they are now...which is all I can hope he does here in Miami.
     
  31. HaRdKoReXXX

    HaRdKoReXXX Trigger Man

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    Nice work on the post, even if alot was merely specualtion and opinion I think we get the point. The only part I cringed at is when you said Trufant was better then Newman. Some may dissagree with me, I feel Terrence Newman may very well be the best shut-down corner in all of football (when healthy). JMO though.
     
  32. DrunkenFan

    DrunkenFan Starter

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    Just an FYI.. you're wrong on the Newman thing. Parcells wanted to draft Kevin Williams that year but Jones and Ireland harped on him to take Newman until he caved.
     
  33. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    I would not mind either CB, its not like taking Charles Rogers over Andre Johnson.
     
  34. phinphan11

    phinphan11 Perennial All-Pro

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    When Parcells is the grand poohbah for the Phins, I highly doubt that he's gonna defer to anyone else when it comes to getting players.

    "if they want you to do the cookin', they outta let you buy the groceries", sound familiar?
     
  35. Lenny

    Lenny Starter

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    The good thing about our team compared to those Cowboys teams is that we can take the best player available regardless of position, because we have so many needs.

    It's harder to draft for a team that's "almost there" because you're trying to fill key positions or upgrade certain positions, and you end up reaching....when your needs include "everything" you can just take the best athlete/player on the board.
     
  36. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Nor did I say anything about Pro Bowlers, its just everything you post is negative, its like your this closet Bucs fan who still has little brother syndrome.

    There will be misses in nearly every draft, and most will have multiple misses, the important question is, did every team he come too get better?

    And the overwhelming answer is.............yes, everyone of them.

    Thats what matters my friend.
     
  37. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Also did he not coach those teams, so was it a matter of coaching or players. He also has a history of bailing and deserting teams. In fact he is neither GM or Coach of this team so we are actually in uncharted water.
    This was a thread about his drafts in Dallas and yes there are better gms throughout the league that have drafted better. This thread had nothing to do with free agency or his coaching ability just the quality of his drafts in Dallas. I could care less if you are anybody paint me as negative because the board is full of posters that dont want to hear any other viewpoint other than thier own so what. I just posted what his draft results and you call me negative. I'm glad I did not post our game results or I would have been real negative.
     
  38. PhenomenalPhin

    PhenomenalPhin GO FINS

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    I would love to have 2 or 3 starters left from each draft in the past 5 - 6 yrs.
     
  39. jvw

    jvw Starter

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    To be fair about parcells picks you have to compare it with the rest of the league. Every team has hits and misses when it comes to the draft. You also have to add what he did in FA to complement his draft. Like when he was with the Jets he had some awful drafts but he was outstanding in FA. When you put each teams drafts side by side I bet you will find his drafts as being above average. There are only a couple of teams that are outstanding when it comes to drafts, the steelers come to mind as one of them. The most important part of picking players in my opinion is not living with a mistake. Most teams will keep a bust on the roster because he was a high pick. Parcells won't do this he will cut his loses and move on. This is what I respect the most out of him money or draft position does not factor in who plays or stays on the team.
     
  40. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    This post was only an analysis of his drafts due to all the hype about our upcoming draft. So many assume because he has something to do with this team that he will hit the draft on all cylinders or that any one player is a sure fire star. Most gms miss alot. I will do an analysis of current gms at some point and rank them on drafting prowness. Im sure Parcells has not shown to be so much superior than the rest of them. I will agree his drafts are like average without any research.
     
  41. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    But he wasn't almost there w/ the Cowboys. This past year is the only year you could say they were almost there.
     
  42. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

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    technically, Jeff Ireland has final say written into his contract.

    Anyways, to call Burnett and Carpenter busts when they have better players in front of them is kind of silly. Also to say so and so was available is stupid considering a guy like Demeco Ryans would get killed in the 3-4, and some players don't fit a need at the time.
     
  43. LarryFinFan

    LarryFinFan Left So Fla, never the Fins...

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    The fact of the matter is though, the 'Boys are contenders now and were not even close before Tunaland arrived... As others have also said, each draft is particular to what a team is looking for. In 2006, the 'Boys could take a few chances since overall the team was pretty close. And of course, the draft is only part of the equation... We will be a better team starting right now. Whether we are SB contenders in 3 yrs is obviously still in question, but his track record says we have a lot of hope as fans to see this team be a much more talented team soon...
     
  44. alen1

    alen1 A True Fan

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    I understand its your opinion and I respect that but do you think hes a better shut down corner than Champ??? I believe Newman is a shut down corner too, teams will start throwing away from him more as he starts getting healthier but I dont think he is better than Champ.
     

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