AFC East Reset: Is this the season the Dolphins overtake the Patriots? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

AFC East Reset: Is this the season the Dolphins overtake the Patriots?

miamiron said:
Tell that to

There is one problem with the theory of the ‘Madden Curse’ though. It simply isn’t true anymore. Consider this; of the last seven players that have been on the cover only one has missed any real time due to injury, and another has endured a poor season. The one injury was Rob Gronkowski; Brady’s favorite target that graced the cover last season. However, Gronkowski had been dealing with injury problems in previous years due to concussion, knee, back and arm injuries.

The other player that endured the poor season was former Browns’ running back Peyton Hillis. Hillis landed on the cover after a tremendous season that gave him his first 1,000 yard season (1,177 rushing yards to be exact). While the next year he rushed for just 587, and suffered from some injuries. However, it is hard to blame his season on the curse when that was his only season anywhere near 1,000 yards. In fact, Hillis had just 1,655 rush yards in his other six seasons combined. Hard to say the “Madden Curse” robbed a guy that never really had the talent to rob.

Furthermore, five of the last seven players all had very productive seasons. The following players were, in order, on the cover of Madden since 2010; Drew Brees, Peyton Hillis (2011), Calvin Johnson (2012), Adrian Peterson (2013), Richard Sherman (2014), Odell Beckham Jr. (2015), Rob Gronkowski (2016). Going through each individual season Brees passed for 4,620 yards and 33 touchdowns, Calvin Johnson set a receiving yard record with 1,964 yards to go with 122 catches, Peterson ran for 1,266 yards and 10 touchdowns, Sherman played every game had eight passes defensed and four interceptions, and Beckham Jr. had 96 catches for 1,450 yards in just his third season. None of those stats speak to a ‘curse’and to suggest otherwise means someone isn’t paying attention.
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Killin me, smalls!
 
The answer is a resounding no. The Pats are probably better than they were last year with the addition of Cooks. They'll likely win the division for the next three years, and at least two more Super Bowls during that time.
 
I'm not giving Miami anything. We have to prove it on the field! End of Story!
 
Phins imo, have gotten better, but so has NE. Cooks gives them a dimension they haven't had on the outside since Moss. You watch, Brady will find him often.
 
The way Miami takes the next step is by overcoming the "play to your opponent" mentality. Miami currently will play good against good teams, and poor against bad teams. Find a way to play consistently well and they can build a dynasty in Miami also. That is what has made N.E. so great - consistent good play from all the important positions (QB) and groups. Honestly, the individuals in the LB room/DB room/O-Line room don't have to be the best - just have to play consistently good football, from whistle to whistle. If you do that and have an elite QB that runs the show on offense, you can have a dynasty for 15 years or so.
 
Injuries. We play the Patriots later in the year. Who remains healthier will have a big role in our head-to-head games. I can't imagine we would be as beat up this year as we were last year. We are due for a relatively healthy season.
 
We'll be a pain in their ass but until Brady starts to lose a step the Pats are there to stay.

Time catches all and Brady isn't getting any younger. Soon maybe not this season but soon...
 
Ross is the reason why Miami is not the reigning Division Champ. When Ross hired Philbin he ruined their best chance to resume control of the Division. Miami had one of the few defenses in the league that was able to slow down Brady and the high-powered Pats offense. Also, Miami had a Top 5 Rushing Defense. Their problem was a vanilla offense with a lack of talented offensive playmakers that had to settle for FGs because they had difficulty scoring enough TDs to win against good opponents. Why was the offense so bad? After the Shula/Marino era, Miami basically refused to select offensive skill positions (QB, RB, TE, WR) early in the draft. When Miami picked Tannehill in the first round, he was just the third offensive skill position player selected in the 1st round since 2000. (The other two were Ted Ginn Jr and Ronnie Brown.) During that same time frame, a total of only 8 or 9 offensive skill position players were selected in the first 3 rounds of the drafts. This explains why Miami usually had a decent defense, but an average (at best) offense.

So, why is Ross at fault? He inherited a team with a good defense that needed a better offense. He needed a new GM who could recognize and draft offensive talent, and an experienced Head Coach who had previous success on the offensive side of the ball, and who would leave the defense as is. What did Ross do? He fired Sparano, but kept the GM who was part of the problem (Ireland). Ross hired Philbin, who wanted a complete change of philosophy on both sides of the ball. Philbin's style of offense was pathetic, and his o-line allowed Tannehill to be sacked more than any other QB during a 4 year period. Even worse, Philbin and Coyle neutered and gutted that Top 5 Rushing Defense. Every year under Philbin the defense dropped in the rankings; especially against the run. Philbin wanted a finesse team rather than a tough, physical team, and the result was not very pretty. Better playcalling and a few talented offensive players could have put Miami in position to pass the Patriots, but the hiring of Philbin sent the Fins into the toilet.

Gase, although inexperienced, seems to be a step in the right direction offensively (once he realized that they needed to add a strong running game and a vertical passing game), but his choice of Defensive Coordinators and defensive philosophy resulted in a terrible defense no different than the one under Coyle.
 
Sons Of Shula said:
As long as Belichick is coaching they not only rule the AFC East but the NFL as well. This topic can taken seriously once he retires.
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Unfortunately, I agree with you. While he is in the AFC East, things are extremely tough.

But then again, we don't have to be the ones to beat him. In a one-off game at Foxboro, we've outplayed them twice. Once was the wildcat debut. Belichick always takes one of our last cuts, gets our playbook and signals, and shuts down our offense by reading our signals and putting people in the right places pre-snap and knowing exactly what we're going to do. But, we installed the Wildcat AFTER that final cut, and he was completely unprepared. We blew them out in Foxboro.

The other time is the one I'm more impressed by. We outplayed them and had the game nearly won in Foxboro, until the officials went all 12th man and started making up calls against us. One was a 4th down pass play where a phantom foul appeared nowhere near when or where the supposed phantom foul occurred, but only after the receiver, who slipped without any contact whatsoever, had gotten up, failed to catch the ball, and it had hit the ground and the play was well over. Then from nowhere, the 12th man official came to the rescue of Brady and the Patriots to gift them a free 1st down when there was absolutely no foul on the play .... and even the supposed foul wasn't called at the time ... complete revisionist history by a referee who was in the tank for the Patriots. But hey, even that wasn't enough. Then later Brady did the unthinkable and threw an interception ... directly to our safety, who ran directly forward to the ball, made the catch while being hit by Gronkowski, who was also fighting for the ball. It was one of the worst calls in the history of the NFL. A clear game-ending interception, clearly a catch, and clearly not a foul of any kind, yet the refs manufactured another phantom penalty--no analysis of this situation could have possibly called this a foul. No view in live action would have called this a foul. No replay angle even remotely suggested a foul. It was 100% the refs stealing the game from us.

But regardless of the refs actions, it is clear to anyone who watched the game that the Dolphins beat the Patriots in Foxboro. Tannehill deserved that win, and earned that win. Sure, we don't beat them in Foxboro often ... but those are two days in recent times where we did outplay them and absent completely paid-off refs would have beaten them twice. I'm not saying it's very likely, especially in a playoff game. But, the Dolphins have shown the ability to beat the Patriots in Foxboro.

Like Tay0365 illustrated ... it is possible. Never say never.
 
Seems like every year we beat them once
 
gofins60 said:
Ross is the reason why Miami is not the reigning Division Champ. When Ross hired Philbin he ruined their best chance to resume control of the Division. Miami had one of the few defenses in the league that was able to slow down Brady and the high-powered Pats offense. Also, Miami had a Top 5 Rushing Defense. Their problem was a vanilla offense with a lack of talented offensive playmakers that had to settle for FGs because they had difficulty scoring enough TDs to win against good opponents. Why was the offense so bad? After the Shula/Marino era, Miami basically refused to select offensive skill positions (QB, RB, TE, WR) early in the draft. When Miami picked Tannehill in the first round, he was just the third offensive skill position player selected in the 1st round since 2000. (The other two were Ted Ginn Jr and Ronnie Brown.) During that same time frame, a total of only 8 or 9 offensive skill position players were selected in the first 3 rounds of the drafts. This explains why Miami usually had a decent defense, but an average (at best) offense.

So, why is Ross at fault? He inherited a team with a good defense that needed a better offense. He needed a new GM who could recognize and draft offensive talent, and an experienced Head Coach who had previous success on the offensive side of the ball, and who would leave the defense as is. What did Ross do? He fired Sparano, but kept the GM who was part of the problem (Ireland). Ross hired Philbin, who wanted a complete change of philosophy on both sides of the ball. Philbin's style of offense was pathetic, and his o-line allowed Tannehill to be sacked more than any other QB during a 4 year period. Even worse, Philbin and Coyle neutered and gutted that Top 5 Rushing Defense. Every year under Philbin the defense dropped in the rankings; especially against the run. Philbin wanted a finesse team rather than a tough, physical team, and the result was not very pretty. Better playcalling and a few talented offensive players could have put Miami in position to pass the Patriots, but the hiring of Philbin sent the Fins into the toilet.

Gase, although inexperienced, seems to be a step in the right direction offensively (once he realized that they needed to add a strong running game and a vertical passing game), but his choice of Defensive Coordinators and defensive philosophy resulted in a terrible defense no different than the one under Coyle.
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Of all the criticisms of Ross, I would never state it's his fault NE is still the best team in the league.
 
Digital said:
Unfortunately, I agree with you. While he is in the AFC East, things are extremely tough.

But then again, we don't have to be the ones to beat him. In a one-off game at Foxboro, we've outplayed them twice. Once was the wildcat debut. Belichick always takes one of our last cuts, gets our playbook and signals, and shuts down our offense by reading our signals and putting people in the right places pre-snap and knowing exactly what we're going to do. But, we installed the Wildcat AFTER that final cut, and he was completely unprepared. We blew them out in Foxboro.

The other time is the one I'm more impressed by. We outplayed them and had the game nearly won in Foxboro, until the officials went all 12th man and started making up calls against us. One was a 4th down pass play where a phantom foul appeared nowhere near when or where the supposed phantom foul occurred, but only after the receiver, who slipped without any contact whatsoever, had gotten up, failed to catch the ball, and it had hit the ground and the play was well over. Then from nowhere, the 12th man official came to the rescue of Brady and the Patriots to gift them a free 1st down when there was absolutely no foul on the play .... and even the supposed foul wasn't called at the time ... complete revisionist history by a referee who was in the tank for the Patriots. But hey, even that wasn't enough. Then later Brady did the unthinkable and threw an interception ... directly to our safety, who ran directly forward to the ball, made the catch while being hit by Gronkowski, who was also fighting for the ball. It was one of the worst calls in the history of the NFL. A clear game-ending interception, clearly a catch, and clearly not a foul of any kind, yet the refs manufactured another phantom penalty--no analysis of this situation could have possibly called this a foul. No view in live action would have called this a foul. No replay angle even remotely suggested a foul. It was 100% the refs stealing the game from us.

But regardless of the refs actions, it is clear to anyone who watched the game that the Dolphins beat the Patriots in Foxboro. Tannehill deserved that win, and earned that win. Sure, we don't beat them in Foxboro often ... but those are two days in recent times where we did outplay them and absent completely paid-off refs would have beaten them twice. I'm not saying it's very likely, especially in a playoff game. But, the Dolphins have shown the ability to beat the Patriots in Foxboro.

Like Tay0365 illustrated ... it is possible. Never say never.
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Was this the same game as the phantom illegal batting call?
 
Yes, the influx of talent in our front 7 will make a huge difference.
 
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