allen or patterson?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by sinPHIN, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. sinPHIN

    sinPHIN A True Fan

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    man i dont know who i like more right now. i think the are both perfect for the wco. who would you take, and could patterson be worth a top 15 pick? i really like them both but we need pattersons speed
    [video=youtube;afFxvuAXnzU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afFxvuAXnzU[/video]
    [video=youtube;ylzEMgmWWnM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylzEMgmWWnM[/video]
     
  2. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    I think they both are terrific players and both seem like good fits in a WC offense. They are both similar in that they can make things happen with the ball in their hands. I think both could get a lot of YAC in the NFL. I'm leaning toward Patterson as the guy I'd pull the trigger on first, but I think it's a good question and should raise a good debate.
     
  3. Kevlared

    Kevlared Well-Known Member

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    allen is the more complete receiver as of now IMO. but patterson has huge potential. allen's numbers this year would have been way better if he had a QB who could even throw the ball halfway decent. a more fair assessment of allen IMO would be his 2011 year when his qb still was garbage, but could at least get him the ball, and when the all the coverage wasn't rolled his way because cal has no one else even decent on their offense.
     
  4. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    In Patterson's defense, you have to acknowledge the fact that her played for Tennessee. A situation that is not too conducive to success. Plus the fact that Bray shrinks in the face of any pressure.
     
  5. SMadison29

    SMadison29 What Sherman aspires to be

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    Allen is a more complete receiver. He may not be the burner that Patterson is but he has much better hands & is a better route runner. A plus for both of them is they're very capable returners so if we want to save a roster spot by dropping Thigpen.
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I don't know that I really consider Patterson a burner. He's got great lateral cutting ability and regularly jukes people, but there are all kinds of players out on the field actually running faster.

    The reason I take a Keenan Allen over a Cordarelle Patterson every time is physicality. This is a physical game and I've seen Patterson look intimidated when defensive players get overly physical with him. Keenan Allen on the other hand seems to welcome it.

    Put the two of them in a foot race and I'm not actually sure who wins that. Wouldn't be surprised if it's Allen.
     
  7. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    I'm glad you chimed in on this one. I've been going back and forth on the two. Do you know how serious Allen's injury is? That's another factor to consider.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    That is another factor to consider and unfortunately I don't know much about the situation. We'll find out more as things go on, I'm sure.

    When all is said and done, I wonder if Quinton Patton may be the highest drafted receiver in this draft.
     
  9. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    Id take Allen as of now. He is fearless across the middle and really fights for the ball in the air. I am a big fan of Patterson though as well..the YAC ability is probably some of the best in the draft.
    CK I know you were high on Marquess Wilson..as was I. How much do you think his situation hurts his stock?
     
  10. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    In the listings I'm seeing, both players are listed at 6'3; Patterson is listed at 205, and Allen is listed at 210. Allen, though, seems like the much bigger player. I think you can make a pretty strong case for both guys. Allen is the safer pick. But Patterson could do some real damage in a West Coast offense.
     
  11. Kevlared

    Kevlared Well-Known Member

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    your right, tyler bray was playing like trash. but even when tyler bray is playing horribly, hes still 10 x the quarterback that cal has.
     
  12. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I also feel more comfortable with WR's coming out of the SEC. I think the level of competition eliminates some of the guess work that we're going to be doing with players like Allen and Woods. Obviously the Pac 12 has some standout CB's this year, but there's a difference between seeing a really good players once every five weeks and seeing most of the best secondaries in the country week in and week out.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Enough to where he's not coming out. But based on what I've seen from him, I don't think his NFL future is really in jeopardy. Pretty clear the guy can play.
     
  14. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    Wilson is not coming out? He left the team so where would he go?
     
  15. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    allen over patterson...
     
  16. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    Thats what I was wondering...I figured that whole situation would almost force him to come out this year. And to be honest...hes a dang good player. Id take him in the 2nd all day even with the whole situation...he would be a steal anything past that
     
  17. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    He's in a similar situation as Mike Williams of the Bucs. Williams quit on Syracuse, at the time he had 49 receptions, 746 yards and 6 TDs in 7 games and he went 4th round. I would think Marquess Wilson, depending on his workouts and interviews, will go 3rd - 4th round.
     
  18. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I would feel good about either in the 1st. I see All Pro potential in both, and I see both as good fits. Patterson is a guy who I find myself liking more and more. You don't get that kind of quickness on that kind of frame.
     
  19. SR 7

    SR 7 A True Fan

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    not sure why Allen only runs a 5 yard comeback route in that entire video.
     
  20. Kevlared

    Kevlared Well-Known Member

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  21. Fin Thirteen

    Fin Thirteen FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Two very different WRs to compare.

    Allen is all quick-twitch physicality. He plays a very muscular game and will put his body on the line. He fights for every yard. Does have speed and a good change of direction, but not what you'd call a smooth runner. He looks very suited to the WCO to me. After his decommitment from Alabama to play with his brother and then the way he reacts to his brother's pretty wild QB play, I'm a little worried about him being a diva receiva. No other basis for the impression than that, but it's a gut feeling. He's made for the NFL though. Whoever drafts him won't discover he wasn't physically up to it, that's for sure. The character side is another question though, for me.

    Patterson is just ridiculously smooth. He has amazing burst from the off and plenty of long speed. But it's the way he changes direction with the maximum efficiency and minimum loss of speed that makes him such a threat. Vision is superb and not prone to cutting laterally to find space. Has a great head fake and double move. Big guy - a very tough matchup for a DB but probably doesn't play to his size like Allen does.

    He looks very raw to me though and I don't know if he'll be a WCO WR at the end of it. If we had the time and the coach to develop him, I'd prefer him over just about anyone. But I don't believe Ireland will take the gamble of picking a player in a massive need position who isn't ready for the NFL in Year 1. Certainly, his draft history suggests he won't.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Was not aware of this. Another thing that happened while I was in Japan. Unfortunately I missed quite a few things during the immediate run-up to the wedding and the honeymoon.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think the situation is a little bit different. I get what you're saying but from what I'm gathering, the nuances are different.

    For one thing the coaches in charge of Syracuse certainly didn't have Mike Leach's history which is a big red flag. Mike Leach was fired for abusing players. A tiger doesn't change his stripes. He may be more careful now not to step over what he perceives to be the line, but the same attitude and same motivations that drove his abuse in Texas Tech are still present in Washington State and that's what it looks like Marquess Wilson was getting at. Here are the pertinent paragraphs in his open letter:

    When I see that and I know Mike Leach's history, that matters in my mind. The unfortunate thing is that immediately people hear "abuse" and they think he means physical abuse and therefore if there's no evidence of that, suddenly Wilson is just a liar. But I think it's clear what kind of abuse he's trying to get at when he talks about the coaching staff "preferr(ing) to belittle, intimidate and humiliate us".

    The bottom line is Marquess Wilson is a grown man and he has a choice. Sometimes, I think the insane people are the players that choose to put up with that kind of thing just because "it's football".

    But back to the point how it's different from Mike Williams, Williams got himself into trouble with academic cheating, which he NEVER 'fessed up to...and the incident which immediately prompted his leaving the team was one where Williams and his buddies were out all night partying and got pulled over by the cops and so he was about to get suspended (since he was already on team probation). In this case we're talking about a kid who was ridden hard from day one by coaches with a checkered history, something pretty much everyone saw including reporters that have talked about Wilson often being singled out by the coaches and forced to do extra work, and he finally broke during a drill that he considered to more of the same BS. He took a stand and left the team.

    There could be more to the story and it could very well be that Wilson was constantly a problem breaking team rules and his walking out on that drill was just him being a primadonna and he chose to leave the team rather than face suspension after his walking out on the drill capped off a long history of poor behavior that called for his suspension. I'm sure that's what the coaches will try and say.

    But the scouts and general managers will get to the bottom of it pretty easily just by talking to the previous coaches and asking whether Wilson was ever a problem for them. If not then it's probably not going to hurt Wilson much.
     
  24. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

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    What I love about Allen is how he like the contact and seeks out the db instead of running out of bounds. He fights for every yard and he runs routes built for the WCO. He runs slants, deep outs and ins, nice post patterns. If he had a QB that could hit him in stride his numbers would be crazy.
     
  25. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

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    Patternson's change of direction and shiftyness is amazing. I like that alot of times he looks covered and then runs himself out of coverage. I love receivers who can do that, Jennings is like that. God what I wouldn't do to steal Allen in the first and then highway rob Patterson in the 2nd. Receivers would be awesome.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afFxvuAXnzU
     
  26. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

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    Is it just me or does this WR class look really deep? I feel like we can get some nice talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year that maybe you couldn't get in years past. If the guys come out who could it would Allen, Wilson, Patterson, Hunter, Bailey, Austin, Woods, Da'rick Rogers, Terrance Williams, Aaron Dobson has some size and speed but raw, DeAndre Hopkins, Quinton Patton, Cobi hamilton, even Jordan Matthews has some nice size and route running, Swope, and a guy like Denard Robinson as an athlete. I mean damn we should and better fill the need for talent at receiver.
     
  27. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    What's interesting is that this is only about 15% of the incredible plays he's made this year for Tennessee. Heck, he just had a play against Kentucky during the Vols last game where he literally made half the defenders on the field miss.

    He only had 10 kick/punt returns in JUCO and returned 3 of 'em for touchdowns. He's averaging almost 28 yards per kick return for Tennessee with a touchdown, and a few more that were within a shoestring tackle of being one. He's only returned 4 punts this year and averages over 25 yards per punt return, and brought one back for a TD against Vanderbilt.

    He's a special talent.
     
  28. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

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    Yeah I have to agree, he shiftiness is just incredible. Talk about YAC ability. No way this kid drops to the 2nd but if he did wow would I like to grab him maybe even in a trade up scenario to go along with a nice pasrusher in the 1st or Allen himself. How sick would that look to have both. A guy can dream.
     
  29. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    If everyone comes out it could be deep as you said. Im certainly with you with taking WRs with our first two picks if the right players are on the board. I wouldn't be opposed to taking Allen/Patterson in the 1st and maybe a Bailey/Hopkins in the 2nd. We need help at CB, pass rusher, etc. But the fact is...our defense isn't all that bad, they are good enough to keep us in games. This team is going only as far as Tannehill takes them, which is why our priority better be getting him as many weapons as possible.
     
  30. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

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    I totally agree. I want impact players. If we can find the next Aldon Smith with our first rounder then that s no brainer. BUt if we can find a stud receiver and a 2nd one drops to us in the 2nd round, I'm all over it. INstantly we have more offense. Then turn around and fill the other needs. With this being a deep class at passrusher as well we may very well get someone who can get after it in the 2nd or a corner at that spot.
     
  31. NJPHINFAN79

    NJPHINFAN79 A True Fan

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    this is what I noticed. I did not have much knowledge of either guy before looking at both videos. But after watching from a clean slate it appeared Allen was a possession guy much like we have had with our receivers of late. Patterson looks more like a deep threat a field stretcher, something we have lacked for years and the type of wr we need IMO.

    If we pick up Wallace in fa then Allen all day and solidify our wr core for years to come.

    But if just drafting one and with just this video to judge, I would take Patterson
     
  32. DcRy82

    DcRy82 A True Fan

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    When you watch Patterson, his abilities jump out at you. Allen is sure handed and all that, but he doesn't do nearly as much as Patterson with the ball in his hands. We have guys who can catch. We need guys who can make big, game changing plays.. I'd take Patterson. Players can get stronger, be coached on how to be physical at the line, and how to run better routes. Players can't be taught the freak RAC abilities that Patterson demonstrates during games.
     
  33. WaxOn WaxOff

    WaxOn WaxOff Starter Finheaven VIP

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    I wouldn't take EITHER in RD1. Hopkins has replays that look great too, and he could be had in RD 2 as could others. Get a player that can rush the passer in RD 1 to team with Wake and our D will be terrifying! There are plenty of WCO WR options this year to be had RD 2 or later.
     
  34. lil tom digby

    lil tom digby Well-Known Member

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    Patterson's running style reminds me of Terrell(sp) Buckley.
     
  35. cane6

    cane6 Well-Known Member

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    Patterson is definitely growing on me with his YAC ability, plus he does appear to have SOME deep speed. Ideally we trade down into the 20's and take Patterson.
     
  36. cane6

    cane6 Well-Known Member

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    Plus he has kickoff and punt return abilities.
     
  37. Austin Tatious

    Austin Tatious Starter

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    I tell ya what, we take Patterson in the first, then Cooper the OG with 2A and Fauria with 2B, and this offense will have no excuses at that point. Grab a corner like Trufant/Hawthorne and a DE like Tank Carradine or a LB like Mauti in the 3rd.

    1. Patterson WR
    2. Cooper, OG
    2. Fauria, TE
    3. Hawthorne CB
    3. Carradine, DE

    At that point, Miami will have answered many of the gaping holes.
     
  38. finfanatic13

    finfanatic13 Scout Team

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    Allen looked a lot like Bess on that video. Run short quick routes, good hands, but FALLS DOWN so quickly!! We need a guy who can go up and get it, that can bust open a play, be elusive, and most of all has a nose for the end zone!! Patterson looked good in that video, but he seems to run extremely upright. Anyone else think this would be a problem?
     
  39. SR 7

    SR 7 A True Fan

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    Not a fan of either to be honest.

    I'd rather go with Te'o if we are there with Wallace in FA than any rookie WR in rd.1.

    I like Rodgers in rd 2 maybe if he lasts there.

    My draft would be Te'o, Wallace FA, Rodgers 2A, and the TE from Stanford in 2B.
     
  40. mmikel30

    mmikel30 Starter

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    Philbins looking for guys who can beat press coverage quickly
     
  41. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Keenan Allen has the better upside. When he learns to be more disciplined with his feet during and after the catch he won't have as much issue falling down. The NFL is a physical game and Keenan Allen is a physical player. He's got tremendous size, strength and athleticism. He's actually pretty salty after the catch and on the run, and he can get beyond physical coverage. I think when you see the two run the 40 you'll realize what the film may have already hinted at, which is that for all this talk of Patterson being the deep threat, Keenan Allen is probably faster. Allen also can play all three of the WR positions, more versatile, can find more ways to get him the ball. If you get Cordarelle Patterson into the NFL and suddenly find that A) He's not actually fast enough to casually blow by corners with deep coverage responsibility, and B) He gets intimidated by physicality...you're sunk.

    Allen didn't get much of a chance to show his skills because his brother the quarterback was ****ing awful. Cordarelle Patterson had Tyler Bray throwing to him and Justin Hunter claiming the bulk of opposing defenses' time in the film room. Keenan Allen gets his brother throwing to him, and he's been the guy with the mark on his back for defenses for over two years now. People need to keep that in mind when they compare the two players.

    I don't believe in a Keenan Allen the way I believed in a Hakeem Nicks or Dez Bryant. He doesn't speak to me that way. But I think he probably deserves the top billing in this WRs class.

    Patterson has his place because he's gifted in both the height department as well as his lateral agility, change of direction. As good open field run instincts as you'll see. But the thing you have to wonder about a Cordarelle Patterson is why am I drafting him in the 1st round when it looks like I might be able to get Marquess Wilson (who is virtually the same player) in the 3rd or 4th round?
     
  42. Kevlared

    Kevlared Well-Known Member

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    that's a huge understatement. his brother has to be one of the worst college quarterbacks i've seen in a long time.
     
  43. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I'm not down on Wilson, but I don't see Patterson. I don't see an electric player with the ball in his hands. Patterson might not have outstanding straight-line speed, but I think it'll be - at minimum - solid for a player his size, and his short area quickness is exceptional. I think I've said it before, but in terms of RAC, Patterson reminds me of a young Jerry Rice - with a little more wiggle.
     
  44. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    We need a burner who can go deep right? Not seeing that in Allen.

    Wallace in FA but hearing we aint gettin nothin in FA.
     
  45. Kevlared

    Kevlared Well-Known Member

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    you dont need a burner to have a successful offense. you need receivers who can create separation on the consistent basis. look at the patriots and packers. They dont have any real burners, but what they do have, are receivers who can consistently get open and get open down the field.
     
  46. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    I agree. But I am dealing with WR mongers here.

    Right now, James Jones and Randall Cobb are tearing it up in GB. Not exactly household names.

    I do believe we need more speed though. We need a guy who can run under a rocket throw from RT and not have any problems staying on their feet or having to dive for it.

    BTW, I love what CK said above. Dont overreach for a WR if you dont have to. GEt a football player who can start day one. bottom line. no matter what the position.
     
  47. justdev7

    justdev7 Rookie

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    Allen will be a perennial pro bowler. Patterson might have a thousand yards season or two. Not close
     
  48. SR 7

    SR 7 A True Fan

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    To answer the question, because I am tired of always asking that questoin and year after year walking away with nothing.

    Why are we drafting matt ryan when I can get long and henne virtually the same players in round 2. Thats what we heard.
    Why are we drafting a primetime WR when we can get Gates in round 4.
    Why are we drafting top players when we can trade back adn get 2 solid players in Misi and Odrick.

    this team doesnt' need to take ag amble on late round prospects, we don't haev that "luxury."

    I know one thing thats for certain, Nicks was the best hands down WR I haev ever, EVER watched on tape. I knew after watching only 2 tapes this man was destined to be an NFL star. His hands, awareness, route running, working the MIDDLE of the field has never been seen before.

    When I wtacehd Egnew, I saw 1 thing, a man who runs short routes and does not impress. I mentioned after draft day how he showed nothing on film.

    When I watch every WR in this draft I see good players, i see VERY GOOD complimentary players, I don't see AJ Green, Julion Jones where in year 1 I do well and year 2 I am a top 10 WR in the NFL.

    I am dying for playmakers on offense, i think my posts of late prove taht but my eyes tell me the sure fire player in this draft I want hands down is Te'o. I haven't liked a LB that i wanted hands down over ANY Player in the draft since I watched Willis game tape and came away wondering how many people doubt him becase of his size. TO me, one of the best players I haev watched pre-draft.

    I see that in Te'o. Reminds me of a force taht knows how to lead, a BIGGER better ZT, I see Urlacher in him.
     
  49. Kevlared

    Kevlared Well-Known Member

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    sadly as good a teo is. i don't think we will be getting him. if he falls to us, then we have an interesting choice, because mlb really isn't a need for us. the problem with our defense is primarily in the secondary. and even with a below average secondary, the defense has still played very well. our problem is that we cant score points. we average under 19 points a game. while our Defense has been good, its very hard to win games when your offense cant score points. we saw the same thing happen 2 years ago when he had the 6th overall defense in the league for yards in 2010. the offense couldn't score points, and many times they put the defense in horrible positions. while your right when you say there is no aj green or julio in this draft, history shows that you dont need one to have an elite offense. look at the 3 elite offenses who have been consistent in that aspect over the past few years. The packers, patriots, and saints. As of right now, none of them have that aj green or julio type recievers. What they do have, are very good consistent receivers. it also doesn't hurt that they have future HOF qb's throwing the ball to those guys either. I don't want us to reach for a guy, but when you look at our situation, I think that we pretty much need to get one of the two most pro ready receivers in this draft. IMO those two would be allen and hunter.
     
  50. dolfin530

    dolfin530 Student of the Game

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    Julio Jones got drafted high because of the combine and I can see Patterson's stock rise to the late 1st, with a solid combine. I think Allen's injury is nothing serious.
     

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