Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DKphin, Jun 25, 2012.
Or, it could be increasing...he´s one of the better blockers we´ve got!!
If we are changing more to a passing offense we need a weapon at the position.
lol. I expect his numbers to go up not down.
It's pretty much the exact opposite, we are going to an up tempo offense, and it has been said that our QBs are favoring our TEs the most. Fasano has good hands, I wouldn't be surprised if our TEs had the most production out of anyone this year.
exactly. get that man out into some space, and double his chances to catch the ball. what's the worst that can happen? drop a few? the best?
well double these numbers...
32 receptions, 451 yards, 5 tds.
and keep his 14.1 Yard per reception.
Total TE production may increase, but I think that Fasano's individual numbers probably will decrease. The last couple years we have had no real complimentary TE...now we might...
Well you'll also have to add in the fact that there's going to be more passing plays this year, plus the fact that Marshall is gone gives someone the chance to get the majority of the catches, I think the QBs will choose someone they trust the most and right now it looks like it's the tight ends.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Fasano had his numbers go up, that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Charles Clay made the most of the opportunity.
I agree. He has the potential to put up bigger numbers. For some reason, a lot of fans have been down on him. But this guy has made some HUGE plays for us in his time here. But he hasn't exactly been put in the greatest position to succeed. He can come up big for us.
based on what? fasano has only produced when given the chance.
RIGHT ON!! Fasono is nothing LESS than reliable and COULD be more. The guy IS clutch. F*** anyone who says different. This guy is a play maker and CAN be bigger a play maker. He knows get open. He has made big plays for us. And he can continue to do do it. I like the guy. I once threw to a guy named Patrick Sanders that had the same attributes as Fasasno, He was my the man. He bailed me OUT. And I was THE and was the QB. But he had the same bs $$$$ marks about him. Didn't slow him down. I threw for better than 5000 yards that season ( semi-pro) and he had almost 1400 yards that season (and 17 touchdowns outta my 52). He picked up blocks. He was always there when I needed him. He recognized mismatches. He had it all. And, like Brady, I used him like I used a whore that needed D***. Don't under estimate a man who has something to prove. Fasano has it. And he has the tools.
the national media keeps saying this same crap. its so vague and annoying. its just like last season when "reggie bush was going to be a situational back and d thomas was the feature back" and i got laughed at in my fantasy draft scooping up bush as a swing player - turned out fine for me. Following the dolphins i knew his role.
anyone who follows the local beat writers and has heard the coach etc. knows that Fasano has been solid in ota's so far and the coaches like his hands - it seems he and clay are poised to have a big big year.
I think he is cut in August
I will agree with you on Charles Clay. This will be a great opportunity for him to become more than a "utility" back. However, with Egnew, I am not sure that Fasano will see that much more. I think the ball is going to be spread around more, which is good for guys like Fasano, but I also think the number of weapons used will be increased.
Based on the fact we have a new TE. Mastruud and that other guy were never targets; Egnew should be. He will get some targets which would have gone to Fasano in the past.
No attack on Fasano...just looking at the possible distribution based on the new players.
This is why you're not a GM and a simple fan!!!!
Why would you cut Fasano and leave a 2nd year TE, a rookie, and a basketball player - converted tight end...
why would they cut one of the surest handed TE's in the nfl?
Here is why I think he is a cut in August...
1. He is not a "Philbin guy"
2. Not sure he is a fit in this system
3. He is in the last year of his deal and could free up additional cap money/save the team cash
4. While contract talks have opened with other FA's on this team, they have not with him...
I will remember this thread/conversation in late August.
For the record, I am not a Fasano hater. I think he has been pretty good. I am just making a prediction. We have to understand that Philbin's style of player is going to emerge around here like it or not. I do not think Fasano is a fit.
That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
The only one of your reasons that has any validity at all is #3....And that is because it's possible
he'll be traded.
How do you know he's not a "Philbin guy" ? We've got a whole roster full of dudes that
aren't "Philbin guys". How do you know he's not a fit for the system until he gets a chance
to be in the system? He's a decent pass catcher and blocker...Pretty much what you need
a tight end to do, and so far we haven't found anyone that can prove they can do it better
on the roster right now. Considering we'll probably keep three TEs, I'd bet he'd be one of
Now, NEXT August? Hey, who knows? THIS August I think he's a lock.
Here's philbins thoughts on fasano, i know its mini camp coach speak but it sounds like he is the in the plans for this season
If Fasano doesn't have a strong solid year, then he will be offered what his value is , like he gets now, he will accept that or hit the road in 2013.
We've got too many raw, unproven TE's to dump him this year. A few weeks of training camp and 4 preseason games wont be enough for those young guys to push Fasano out the door.
Fasano is the only go-to receiver for a TD on the team ... can't recall any others at the moment.
Fasano is top five all round te.He isnt the seam threat or very flashy,but he is a accomplished blocker,chain mover and has dependable hands.He isnt going anywhere.
Here's a video from 2011 illustrating why I think Anthony Fasano's footprint on the deep middle passing game should actually INCREASE in 2011...rather than decrease, as put forward by Brian Biggane.
Fact of the matter is, after Chad Pennington left the field, and until Matt Moore came back, we did not have a quarterback that could reliably place those up-and-down throws down the seam in the middle of the field. Henne threw a few nice ones before getting injured, but he also struggled on some of them this year, and those passes were practically non-existent from 2009 to 2010. You can blame Dan Henning, and that would be an accurate assessment of blame, but not a complete assessment. Henning was only reacting to the strengths and weaknesses of his quarterback. He called for plenty of those seam passes to Fasano and David Martin in 2008 (just as many to Fasano as Martin, mind you)...but avoided them like PLAGUE from 2009 to 2010.
I will disappointed in my boy Fasano if this happens, I actually think his year will be on a 500 to 600 yard pace if he performs like he should. I am a Fasano supporter, I think this offense actually fits him like a glove. Fasano is a blocker and possession receiver which fits the definition of a west coast TE perfectly.
Clay and Egnew fill a roll more like Craig in the WCO, instead of the hybrid FB/RB Craig played the position has evolved to the hybrid TE/RB style player. Possession and running the ball is still a basic fundamental of the west coast and Fasano fills that TE roll perfectly.
I'm going to have to disagree, with people saying Egnew struggling, and Les Brown not showing much I don't think they would drop Fasano at all. Depending on how Fasano and Clay do this year I think it will tell if he comes back next year or not.
fasano is going to have a great year
Personally I'd be disappointed if his production went down. Think about it, really on our receiving corps I can think of 3 true NFL caliber WRs. That's it and we can't expect them to run all the short routes. Why not get more use of a guy who can get open and catch the ball over the middle consistently? Weird article. I thought TEs can be very effective in the WCO.
Dude- there's a reason why we got Charles Clay and now Michael Egnew- we need seam busting TE's who can run. I like Fasano quite a bit, but he's the blocking beast of the three, not a receiving weapon like Gronk or Hernandez- or anything close to those two. Far more pedestrian. I'll be surprised if his numbers go up significantly. He's a good all around TE, but he doesn't have that much burst and he can't really split the middle of the field effectively. Ergo Clay and Egnew.
I like Fasano, and hope he can reach his potential with this new wide open O
I think Fasano is more athletic than we give him credit for.
I highly doubt we are trying to replace Fasano yet. Green Bay has used sets with up to 4 TEs so we needed a few more.
With fasano being the only hand in the dirt athletic reciever we have im pretty sure he'll stick, see egnew more as just standing up in slot at TE......think they used to be called BIG wide recievers......but now they are just glorified TE;s and clay prob being more of a maybe hand in dirt then motion type. A TE stand up in slot is an automatic cover for a S or OLB, a TE that can release with hand in dirt or run a delay can cause the OLB that would be keepign an eye on him to lose focus. i THINK fasano will be in the mid 50's reception range with prob easily 40 of those catches coming from hand in dirt. I'd love to see egnew turn into a seem threat (i see clay as more of a up and out type guy) but i doubt they waste fasanos talents then let him take his good season into free agency
You're the first guy I've seen describe Clay as an up and out guy and I have to say I absolutely agree. I also see a lot of deep outs in his future simply because he can get to that second level behind LBs so fast, and if you keep him away from the safeties, very few LBs will have a chance to keep up with his agility/speed.
sorry, but all talk is pretty much irrelevant after CK posted this video. The guy gets open in the seam and makes great catches. Dont you remember his beauty against the jets for the division title in 08? dont you remember his year in 08? this guy is one of our most solid players. he has been a true dolphin who has made an impact for our team for the last 4 years. i dont get why a lot of people sleep on him, but again, most of the people seem to be the ones that just dont follow the offseason as closely, b/c they keep citing egnew as the reason, and egnew is clearly not there yet.
Fasano falls into the matt moore catergory. The same brainless, homer powered fans love this guy just like they love matt moore when neither player has NFL level talent. He's not the great blocker you make him out to be just because he's slow and he certainly isn't sure handed. The reason his numbers have been abysmal was because he's not that good. I'd rather see optimism over Clay and Egnew from homer fans than love for this bum.
BTW, a 3 minute highlight tape doesn't change my mind especially when those highlights are repeated over and over. There were maybe 2-3 plays that actually show cased good hands. 7 or so seconds in against NE, pretty awesome play. 32 seconds in against NE, pretty insane throw from hene and a real nice catch and then the one catch down the seem against the raiders was a solid play too. (3:17) I'll add the play against the skins with the nice little move he put on the Lber but that was pretty bad coverage too. Everything else looks like a blown coverage or the other team playing cover 2 and he's wide open for a routine catch. Put a more athletic player in that spot and you're talking real big plays instead of 10-15 yrds.
Second look through, the skins game he had more solid catches too. not gonna list them all.
If anything the video show cases how inaccurate moore was when he was wide open and the long TD against KC shows either fasanos lack of speed or moores poor arm. The long TD in the KC game should have had more air under it and fasno should have had even more seperation to begin with since the LBER blew his assignment so badly.
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Nope, pretty glad Henne is gone too despite with some enourmous coaching he has way more potential than matt moore. Nice try though.
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that picture is hilarious btw. lol
thanks.. and it has been my observation that the majority of blowback against Moore is the result of residual Henne fluffing.
...we may agree about Henne's relative potential - at least below the neck, but certainly not above.
A word to the wise, as a recently joined member you may not be aware that while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, regularly labelling, tarring and slandering those who don't agree in the most insulting, unflattering, undiplomatic terms doesn't really resonate around here with members or staff. :dontknow:
How does your point work if his numbers haven't been abysmal?
He was pretty average in college but you could attribute that to their decline in their overall program. He was a poor mans drew bledsoe and im sure thats what tuna saw in him. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned it around with a better situation because his growth was stunted here with the wildcat and real bad coaches/**** organaization.
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30 something catches for 400 yards? pretty abysmal.
Fasano gets no love because he is a true TE. Nothing flashy but he does a lot of stuff well, he catches the ball most every time it is thrown his way, he produces first downs, catches a decent amount of TD passes and I will argue with anyone who says he cannot block.
He is never going to be a 1000 yard TE but he produces positive play almost everythime he touches the ball and I'll take that anytime.
a Quick look at fasano and his percentage of the offense as it pertains to yardage. and then a quick look at the preseason top 20 (including hernandez who for some reason wasn't on the list)
Bush – 296 %= 9
Thomas – 72
Hillard - 49
Bess – 537 = % 16
Marshall – 1214 = %35
Hartline – 549 = %16
Fasano – 451 = %13
Clay - 233 = %7
Slaton – 3
Other noteable TE’s (2011 preseason top 20)
Antonio Gates – San Diego Chargers = %17
Dallas Clark – Indianapolis Colts = %9
Jason Witten – Dallas Cowboys = %21
Jermichael Finley – Green Bay Packers = %15
Vernon Davis – San Francisco 49ers = % 25
Owen Daniels – Houston Texans = % 18 (team leader)
Chris Cooley – Washington Redskins = % 2
Zach Miller – Seattle Seahawks = % 7
Tony Gonzalez – Atlanta Falcons = % 20
Kellen Winslow – Tampa Bay Buccaneers = % 20
Jimmy Graham – New Orleans Saints = % 24
Brandon Pettigrew – Detroit Lions = % 15
Jermaine Gresham – Cincinnati Bengals = % 17
Dustin Keller – New York Jets = % 23
Greg Olsen – Carolina Panthers = % 13
Marcedes Lewis – Jacksonville Jaguars = % 18
Rob Gronkowski – New England Patriots = % 25
Heath Miller – Pittsburgh Steelers = % 15
Visanthe Shiancoe – Minnesota Vikings = % 12
Brent Celek – Philadelphia Eagles = % 19
Hernandez (wasn’t on the list ) = % 17
Amen, and well said. A breath of fresh air!
DSteve, the mere fact that you stated "His numbers are abysmal" are why it seems that you just don't understand what a tight end actually does. Would you prefer Jimmy Graham over Jason Witten? Looking at their receiving numbers, it seems obvious! Who wouldn't! But when you get a little deeper and look at how an offense must rely on versatility from these guys - to block like an offensive lineman and catch like a receiver - you have to find a balancing act. Personally? I'd take Witten. My team is going to run the ball far more than pass it, so it's important that they have a guy who not only CAN block, but other teams have to RESPECT his ability as a blocker. That's what makes Gronk so deadly out there. He can do both things insanely well, and his mere presence in the huddle isn't an indication as to what the offense is likely to do on the upcoming play/series.
Hernandez is exactly what you think of when you saw "pass catching TE". (One half of that means he cannot block like a TE should as well as being able to catch passes. In fact, to me, a pass catching TE means one that cannot line block) Our C Clay is bigger then Hernandez is so if you ever wonder if Clay is big enough, he is big enough to be a pass catching TE.
Defenses do read the offense by which players are in. If Clay ever came in as the starting TE over Fasano in a single TE formation the defense would be sure that it is a passing down and Clay is going out. If Fasano is in, it could be a run or pass play. Last season, Clay made his catches from some two TEs sets and running longer then normal roues from the FB position. But he was always the second TE or the FB.
Gronk is awesome. Very few TEs that catch that many passes are so good at blocking.
So you start by saying there's really only a few catches worth noting on that video and you finish by losing count of how many there are, throwing up your hands and saying "I'm not going to list them all"?
The reason the plays repeat is to give you a better view of them. I included the instant replays if I felt they included a better view of the play, as well as the coaches tape if I felt that showed something the other views did not.
1. New England. Through formation he ends up in one-on-one coverage with Gary Guyton (now on the Dolphins), who has 4.47 speed as tested at the 2008 Combine. Not only that, to get out on the route, Fasano has to use a quick hand move to make Rob Ninkovich miss on his attempt to jam Anthony at the line. He then finishes the play with an amazing one handed over the shoulder grab.
2. New England. Now he's running a seam route against the zone coverage of Dane Fletcher (4.62 speed) and Patrick Chung. Note the shoulder fake to the outside which immediately causes Fletcher to flatten out and look to undercut the ball on an out route. The deke also helps to hold Patrick Chung on his outside leverage an extra beat before he begins closing on the seam route. Finishes the play with a nice catch in stride, and holds onto the ball even after being walloped by Chung from the blind side.
3. New England. Once again matches up one-on-one with the 4.47 speedster Gary Guyton, and easily creates separation. Finishes the play by adjusting to the poor back-shoulder bullet placement of the seam pass.
4. Cleveland. Truthfully I did not intend to keep this catch in the video as it didn't fit within my stated scope. However, that doesn't mean he didn't do anything great on this play. He got by a hard jam by Scott Fujita, found a big hole in the zone, caught the low ball thrown by Henne, stayed on his feet and ran immediately for 9 more yards after the catch.
5. Kansas City. Interesting that you criticize this play. For me, it was in its own way one of the most impressive in the bunch. It was a great play design, I'll give you that. Fasano releases off the line to the back side and is immediately jammed hard by NT Kelly Gregg, but uses his hands to get by him. From there, you're right, he is wide open because Derrick Johnson was late getting out and was also rubbed by Brandon Marshall. However, I included the play anyway. Why? Derrick Johnson runs a 4.52, verified at the 2005 Combine. He also has a 37.5 inch vertical and ran an unbelievable 3.93 shuttle. Yet when Fasano gets 5 yards of separation on him, he maintains that separation until he has to turn back and slow up for the football. Then Anthony does something I still find incredible. His back is completely turned to the end zone and he's catching the ball as Derrick Johnson is ramming at him full speed right at his face, Fasano catches the ball at the 11 yard line and back pedals, turns and keeps running into the end zone while PRO BOWL linebacker Derrick Johnson feebly tries to get him down. Yes, Fasano got open because of the play design and the rub by Marshall, as well as Anthony's being able to shed a jam by Kelly Gregg. However, he finished the damn play over a Pro Bowler because he's a damn good player.
6. Washington. The first thing he does is shed a jam from sensational young outside linebacker Ryan Kerrigan. What he does next is way more cool, though. If you watch the coaches tape, he's actually lined up in one-on-one coverage with DeAngelo Hall. The first view of this play is really the best one because you can see closer up how Fasano turns his shoulders around to the outside to fake an out/corner route, gets DeAngelo to bite, and then turns back inside for the catch. This a three time Pro Bowl selection cornerback and it would be one thing if Fasano beat him in coverage because he's just bigger and more physical, but no...he actually created separation with his ability to run the route. After that, adjusting to the poorly placed ball on his back shoulder, which allowed DeAngelo to try and strip the ball away, and then defeating Hall's attempt to strip the football...that's just gravy. Hell of a play.
7. Washington. Again, one on one coverage with All Pro linebacker London Fletcher. This is becoming old hat. Fasano turns his shoulder to fake the in cut, uses his hands to release outside and up the field, uses the separation he created on the All Pro to make an incredible (once you see it up close) one-handed over the shoulder catch. And it's not even his first incredible one-handed over the shoulder catch of the video.
8. Oakland. Anthony takes a hard jam by Kamerion Wimbley, and dishes back even more than Wimbley gave him, with a hard chuck of his own. He made Kamerian look silly through strong hand use, leaving Wimbley grasping at air and stumbling over himself trying to recover. Of course, it goes without saying Fasano finished the catch and even ran for an extra 8 yards after the catch, staying on his feet despite having to spin backward to secure the ball in traffic.
9. Philadelphia. Here Anthony turns the shoulder to the outside but sees the big hole between the cover two zones and turns straight up into it. Finishes by jumping for the high throw and absorbing a wicked shot from Nate Allen, even twirling around for an extra 4 yards after the hit. And hell, this was probably the easiest of the catches in the video.
10. Philadelphia. Here he beats the 4.59 speedster linebacker Keenan Clayton for yet another catch over the middle. You can't see the up field view of this play but it was impressive how Anthony had to spot the ball with Keenan's body blocking the view of it, and the adjust out to the front of Keenan and catch the ball as it squirted by his shoulder. Not an easy thing to do.
There are certainly catches I left out. He caught a nice deep one for a TD against the Bills that I left out simply because he ran a basic corner route and was left uncovered. The best thing he did on the play was run his route and finish with the catch. I purposely included 10 very impressive catches mostly beating the type of coverage he'd have to beat in Joe Philbin's offense. The fact that he showed he can consistently do that and finish the play with a catch is the reason Joe Philbin is intrigued with Fasano.
People tend to forget his YPC average, you would not think of him as a downfield pass catcher but he runs a lot longer routes.
Last season his YPC was 14.1 which was 4th in the NFL for TEs. In 2010 he was 8th. In 2008 he was 5th. (among TEs that caught at least 30 passes).
Speaking of 2008, I think we will see a season for our TEs like that one. Fasano caught 34 passes and D Martin caught 31. Martin had the bigger YPC average (14.5 to 13.4) but Fasano had 7 TDs to Martin's 3.
I can see us with a season where Fasano has 45-50 catches, Clay has 30-35 catches and Egnew gets 15-20.
I didn't include ypr or tds, but clearly he has the tools to be a complete TE. Oppurtunity is what he needs.
I think it's the opposite of what some think. I think Anthony Fasano could have some of his shorter routes taken away and given to a Michael Egnew and Charles Clay who are better at running after the catch, because they're more explosive. I think Fasano's footprint on the deeper passes especially up the middle will actually increase.
What he won't do is line up on the outside like a wide receiver, and I think that's where Clay and Egnew will both also contribute.
Fantastic, CK. Thank you for that.
I agree 100%.
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Interesting. I think too many assume that he only goes out for short passes when it seems like he rarely does.