Anthony Steen doing 'whatever's best for the team' in Miami Dolphins' offensive line

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DKphin, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Active Member

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    Doesn't really work that way though for a 16 game schedule. The year before he gave up 2.5 in 10 games and before that 4.5 sacks in 16 games. A better projection would have to have expected 3 sacks. Not a huge problem maybe but he wasn't as good as Tunsil despite PFF ranking him so. Do agree though that all we need is for him to be proficient.
     
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  2. Kingdom Come

    Kingdom Come Well-Known Member

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  3. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    One thing to consider is that we ate a big chunk of dead cap ($4M?) by jettisoning Branden Albert and to sign Larsen.

    As I said when we signed Albert, he is a good LT and I liked the player, but I had two concerns, 1) he had a history of injuries and at his age it would only get worse, and 2) we overpayed. The guy already lived in Miami. There were 3 good LT's out there, Albert, Monroe and Veldheer. Monroe was the least gettable and the worst get because he wanted to stay in Baltimore and ended up missing many more games to injuries than the other two. Arguably, Alberts was the best, although Veldheer seems to have been durable and played at a high level, so that point is arguable. We definitely overpaid. Moving on from Alberts definitely cost us money. I was correct on both points, but more importantly, we need to learn from our mistakes.

    I get why you didn't want to overpay for OL this year. But the reason the market was so high was that there weren't many OL prospects worth a darn in the draft this year and it looks like this was a phenomenal defensive draft. While I'm a huge proponent of drafting good OL, this simply wasn't the draft for it. IMHO, we made the correct call drafting defense with our first three picks. We also made a great pick of Asiaata in the 5th. Kudos to the front office for making the correct calls there.

    But, we were backed into a corner by the failures of the past with the OL. It's 5/11ths of our starting offense, and unlike many players those 5 tend to play 100% of the snaps while healthy. The positions may not be glamorous, but they are impactful and important. If we had 3 holes (LG, RG, C) and our only veteran transaction was swapping out the good but injury-prone Albert for the journeyman Larsen--for the same Salary Cap impact--then we definitely didn't do enough. Where would we have found the money? Well maybe not sign/keep both Timmons AND Misi. Maybe not reward our young DE quite so much for 5.5 sacks on a DL that has Suh and Wake commanding all the attention. There were ways to make getting a good guard happen. We chose to prioritize other areas. But, when we watch the OL this year, its a good thing to keep in mind, IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  4. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

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    You can't have all pros at ever position. There is a salary cap.
     
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  5. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'm fine with having some mediocre linemen. I'm not fine with having a bunch of BAD linemen.

    I'm even less fine with having the worst starting interior OL in the NFL. Fortunately, that is no longer an issue (see my signature for details).
     
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  6. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek

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    Way to cop out and make excuses. Yep, there was no way to avoid Tannehill being sacked infinity times. Only so much you can do with the cap ...
     
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  7. jnozag

    jnozag Well-Known Member

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    I agree, our O-Line leaves me a bit skeptical about getting 10+ wins. I believe this will be the focus in the draft next year and from then on, have a legitimate chance to win the division.
     
  8. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

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    It isn't a cop out or excuse. In 2016 our o-line only gave up 30 sacks witch was in the top 1/3 in the nfl last season. We will be better this season with Pouncey coming back, and very servicable LG in Larsen, Tunsil moving to his natural position, and Bushrod being in his 2nd year at G. The other huge thing is not having Dallas Thomas or Billy Turner playing, as the majority of the 30 sacks allowed were in the first 5 games when those two were playing.

    I don't think Larsen or Bushrod are long term answers. We drafted a G this year that hopefully emerges, and next year might have a deeper FA crop and deeper rookie class, as both were lacking this year.
     
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  9. DefensiveEnd76

    DefensiveEnd76 Football Guru

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    Well Pouncey won't last the season so don't count on him.
     
  10. phazer

    phazer Well-Known Member

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    The Patriots olineman are mediocre...they just have playmakers. 5 runningbacks with different skill sets etc. None of the o line are multiple pro bowlers
     
  11. Atila

    Atila Atila - the freshmaker. Finheaven VIP

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    Good post...

    You can't really take the Albert dead money as a comparable factor for Larsens IMO simply because it has just as much effect on Tunsil and unexpectedly getting him last year, and moving him to his natural position. We'd be keeping Albert this year if we didn't get Tunsil last year. Larsens was a smart business move as well as from a personnel/talent standpoint when you consider his durability/consistency and in relation to his salary. So Larsens vs Albert is not really a fair judgement in terms of considering the dead money, I look at the Larsens and Albert moves in separate vacuums and consider both good decisions.

    And in respect to what I bolded - we couldn't do anything about the center position. I take that back - we could have drafted a prospect at center in a late round but that would have been basically the only way to reasonably address the center position this year. We were not in a position to make any move for Pouncey this year in any way, so they basically had to leave that position alone. If you consider that, we did address both guard positions reasonably - adding Larsens who will do just fine and adding a prospect guard in Asiata.

    Those weren't glamorous moves, nor was the Bushrod resign, but they were reasonable moves and pragmatic in my opinion.
     
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  12. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek

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    I hear ya but I also know there is some variation of this post every year. The o line has been terrible for so long that people are complacent just throwing up their arms and saying 'what more can we do?'

    This is what you do. This team obviously cannot draft o linemen - even in the first round (!!!). So you fix the problem with the best 2 interior free agents. Sure, you won't be able to afford a rapidly declining Timmons, or a mediocre Branch, or ... etc but at least the team can know what they have at the most important position on the field. How many people are undecided on a QB that's almost 30? Let's get this thing figured out once and for all ... without the built in excuses.
     
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  13. DefensiveEnd76

    DefensiveEnd76 Football Guru

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    The Patriots have a superior coaching staff which can mask weak spots.
     
  14. phazer

    phazer Well-Known Member

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    So we need better o line coaches?
     
  15. dolphintodd

    dolphintodd FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    and they have Tom Brady
     
  16. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

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    That's not how the NFL works. Building through high priced FA has not worked out for anyone. Draft and lower priced 2nd tier guys to bridge gaps has won super bows.

    I think I'm not gloom and doom this year about the oline because I have faith in this new regime, and last season we protected the qb for the first time in RT's career. Gase and Grier are off to a great start changing the culture. We got more out of less last season, and they also sent the bums out. The winning streak started when the oline gave Ryan and Matt time, and did an exceptional job the final 11 games. I think they improve this year, and continue in the right direction.
     
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  17. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek

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    I agree building through FA isn't sustainable. Just ask the Redskins of old. But we're talking about 2 positions here. 2 positions that have derailed seasons for years. 2 positions that are among the easiest fixes on the entire team. It should've happened by sheer chance by now.

    How many high draft picks you feel like wasting for 2 positions a drunk baby could fix in free agency? How many seasons of watching the QB get killed before someone decides that approach isn't working?

    It's cool, we can always revisit this conversation around this time next year. No urgency necessary. It's not like the QB had a scary knee injury or anything ...
     
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  18. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    These are why mere numbers are misleading. Depsite Larsen being credited with just .5 sack, the pressure he allows here results in a blown play and the incompletion.


    Larsen beat by an inside spin move and allows the pressure and QB hit.


    Misses the trap block on the EMLOS who makes the tackle.


    Fails to make the reach block on the Center.


    Fails to ID the LB blitz and pass off his man to the Center.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  20. DefensiveEnd76

    DefensiveEnd76 Football Guru

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    We have Chris Foerster. Not exactly an impressive coach.
     
  21. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Well those weren't some inspiring clips sons... however, I recall your thread on him from months ago.... I'm just holding out hope for average enough
     
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  22. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Those notes were based on his performances from Arizona and Tampa. This was the first time I've gotten around to watching him in Chicago. Only a game and half in so far (played only the 2nd half vs GB), but it's not pretty.

    Had some solid run and pass sets vs Minn and though nothing stood out in an overwhelmingly positive sense there were a good handful of errors and missed blocks.
     
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  23. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    There are those among us who think Larsen was actually brought in because they were uncertain about Pouncey ... not really to compete at guard. When we signed Larsen the main thing he said about himself was that he has versatility to play all 3 interior positions including center. He knows he may be asked to start at center.
     
  24. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Not saying Steen is the answer but Larsen isn't athletic enough to warrant playing Center IMO.

    The depth chart for the interior 3 are nothing more jumbled scrabble tiles on a place card for the time being. Bushrod is the main name I don't want to see scribbled in the starting lineup, but Larsen and Asiata aren't necessarily fit for the zone run game either.
     
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  25. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]



    Chapter oooonnne,
    We drafted Lar-uh-mee

    Chapter two
    I think I fell in love with you

    You said you'd fix Pouncey in the middle of chapter 3

    But you were up to your old tricks
    in chapters four, five and six

    Aaand, I'm giving Steen a longer look,
    Everyday, everyday, everyday I write the books
     
  26. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

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    Branden Albert let Campbell end Ryan's season, maybe that's why he is in Jacksonville.

    I love the idea of curbing the convo till a later date. It's just funny to me we haven't seen these guys line up yet, but fans here have Pouncey out for the season, and our guards being matadors. The fact is in his first season under Gase Ryan got sacked 17x less than than his best season prior. Let's just wait till August before we freak out.

     
  27. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Good stuff on larsen . Would Mangold help?
     
  28. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek

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    When was the last time there was consistency at guard? Name names, please. What's funny is every season this happens and by the time football is almost upon us people forget the last 20 years.

    I'm not freaking out. Cool with waiting til August. I just don't expect the same lame approach to fix a problem that's existed as long as many on this board have been alive.

    I agree that better head coaching will help, although I don't have a ton of faith in Foerster. I also agree that on paper that group is marginally better. But I'm not gonna consider the problem fixed until it's actually fixed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  29. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    The time to sign interior linemen was 2016, IMO. I was hoping for it then and our biggest move was Bushrod. We could have had our choice of a couple of very good linemen who went under $7M. The good news (albeit slight) is that we are getting out of being handcuffed by injury prone linemen. Albert is gone and Pouncey is next. You just can't continually depend on these type of players and expect different results year after year. I hope the trend doesn't continue with Tunsil.

    The last time we had a good guard....Incognito, who was a train wreck as a person. Wouldn't mind having him today but he had to go through what he did to even being playing now. He would have derailed if not, IMO. Not the type of leader you wanted in the locker room.
     
  30. phinasota

    phinasota Bleed Aqua

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    Hopefully we sign mangold or someone else after the teams trim the rosters. Not like there's gonna be much out there though at this point.
     
  31. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek

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    I think they're considering that unit good to go for next season. I don't see Mangold taking a backup role with backup money. There will be some cuts that make sense for us but I'd be surprised if the FO pulls the trigger. We'll see but I'm not crossing my fingers.
     
  32. phazer

    phazer Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Tanenbaum can convince mangold
     
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  33. JakeemThe Dream

    JakeemThe Dream Well-Known Member

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    Ya unless one of us Fin Fans have done massive research on Larsen, he really is what we call JAG.

    Come week 1, I hope Mccoy isn't throwing Larsen around. (Very Likely)

    Like SOS said..He doesn't have to be a stud like Martin but going unnoticed would be a huge for us.

    I would love to see Steen have a legitimate chance at starting.

    I thought he filled in pretty well.

    I'm hoping with Tunsil and Pouncey (please football god) on both sides of Larsen he can become more than what he is now..

    PHINS UP!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  34. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    A better balance in run/pass ratio and playcalling was a major factor that led to that more than the line itself. We were one of the leaders in the NFL in screen plays as w were 2nd in the league for the highest amount of screens used.

    Here's a thread on that subject: http://finheaven.com/threads/we-are-a-terrible-screen-pass-team.339662/
     
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  35. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

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    Great so the coach saw the talent on the team and utilized to the best of his ability, and the result was 13 sacks in the final 11 games, Tannehill being sacked the least amount in his career, and playoff spot. That has been my exact point this entire thread. If he can get the group he had last year to produce those numbers I think he can do it with this group as well. The fewest sacks in Ryan's career + his highest ypa in his career, oh the most yards from a RB in 10+ years, in year one as coach, and its safe to say most players get better as they get more familiar with the scheme.
     
  36. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    Gotta give a thumbs up to those who are consistent, when talking Oline.

    The absolute nonsense from some on this subject, is a yearly cut and paste topic.

    We don't need all pro's at every level, but show your QB and fanbase that you understand the game will be determined in the trenches. Also, bringing in a TE who couldn't block a 2 year old, does nothing to help the right side. Bushrod is a disaster.
     
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  37. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Correct. My response wasn't an argument against, it was an explanation of.
     
  38. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

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    We also brought in the #1 rated runblocking TE in the NFL.
     
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  39. JakeemThe Dream

    JakeemThe Dream Well-Known Member

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    I thought Bushrod was decent but could be wrong. (Maybe Ajayi is just that damn good)

    Ya I agree with the Julius Thomas issue with blocking but I doubt he's going to be used much as a blocker.

    We did get the best blocking TE in the league in Fasano.
     
  40. DolfanDuBbZ~

    DolfanDuBbZ~ Avoid the 'Noid

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    You put your eggs in that beat up undersized tackle basket. I won't.
     

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