Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Nublar7, Dec 6, 2012.
Continuity is great when youre continuing something thats working. When youre continuing something that has still shown no progress 5 years in, it just becomes Einstein's definition of insanity.
gotta love the speculation around finheaven!
This is a great way of putting it. Bravo.
Have fun with depressed ticket sales...
Not many suckers left down here...
Have a nice time looking up at the empty seats, Ross!
Well that's to be expected anyway.
There are going to be empty seats with or without Jeff Ireland. Just how the locals roll.
Brother Josh I think if Jeff stays that means less Dolphin fans in the seats.
Well if it makes u feel better, if ireland gets fired il become a season ticket holder, deal?
Probably has nothing to do with the 4 losing seasons in a row and the complete state of irrelevance the franchise has been in since I have a conscious memory, right?
Im not going to tell you the fans arent fickle, because they are. But that works both ways. If we build a winning franchise, the people will come. Its been proven before.
What? If Ireland leaves is he taking the beach with him? I keep hearing that has a huge impact on attendance.
For the first time since the 60's(or pre-Shula) weve had 4 consecutive losing seasons. And yet the reason Ross wants to keep Ireland is "continuity". Sounds about right for Miami Dolphins logic.
Now i know why fans question if Ross wants to win.
There will be more empty seats with Ireland. More fans would come with new hope. JI has to prove himself to be more than a souvenir of the Trifecta term.
The team sold 60k tickets in 2010.
First round linemen don't help sell out stadiums? who knew
You are aware Miami used to average 73k fans a game right? That was 10 years ago or so. Your either young and not aware or always finding excuses to blame fans as opposed to the organization.
In Miami, apparently 1st round quarterbacks don't either. Look, season ticket sales are not going to instantly go up because Ireland is fired. Sparano was public enemy #1 in 2011 and once Ross replaced him with Philbin, ticket sales dropped. Even if Ross would fire Ireland after this season, I bet you the ticket sales would again drop or stay about the same, I wouldn't anticipate any major increase.
So since Ross already knows that there will continue to be poor local support in 2013 the question becomes whether or not you think Ireland is the guy to turn the team around. I know Ireland has been here since 2008, but I guarantee you that Ross gave him somewhat of a pass for what happened between 2008-2010 because Parcells was in charge of the football department those offseasons. I truly believe that Ross is judging Ireland on what he has been able to do from 2011 on and since this a new type of team under Philbin than it was under Parcells/Sparano. I am not saying Ireland should be retained, but I am certainly not surprised it appears he will be.
Ross is apparently a great believer in the continuity of suckage
I also know the playoff game in 2000 against the Colts was blacked out. Please, let's not turn this into another thread about how poor the local support is. We all know how bad this is, let's try and keep it on track with the news about Ireland pretty much locked in as the GM in 2013.
If you bring in exciting names then people will come. Tannehill and Philbin were no names that excited no one. Most people thought Tannehill wouldn't even play this year. Ireland hasn't done much positive since 2011 either. His draft last year pretty much sucked outside of Pouncey.
The playoff game in 2000 was sold out by game time. The playoff game in 2008 sold out in 3 hours.
I think youre most likely right about Ireland coming back, but I think the dynamic changes if we lose to SF and NE and dont sweep the Jags and Bills. A big if obviously, but not impossible. Its hard to see us losing out TBH, but if we only only win one more game and its not a win over SF or NE, I think Jeff's status becomes a little more uncertain. If we lose out I think he is probably gone, but like I said I dont think we lose out.
Anyone who says they know whats going to happen for certain or that Ireland is locked into a job could be in for a rude awakening a mere 4 weeks from now. I think its hilarious that Armando is considered a horrible reporter when he reports something that fans dont like, but considered impeccable when reporting something fans are biased towards.
Ross expected a playoff berth. At the very least he expected a winning season. Its plausable we go 1-3 or get swept the rest of the way. If we end up with 6 wins or less seats could heat up very quickly. Nothing kills jobs faster than a season spiraling out of control.
In all likelyhood Ireland will remain. But that has very little to do with his job performance. One thing is for certain, we wont know until those final games are played.
Armando does mention that an epic and disastrous final four weeks could change things, but with home games against the Bills and Jaguars on the schedule, that probably is unlikely. If the Dolphins finish the season 5-11, then I think the topic of Ireland's job security becomes a realistic conversation. Here is the thing though, in addition to the Bills and Jaguars game, the week 17 game in New England could be against backups. 2-3 wins the final four weeks might not be as crazy as some might think. 2-3 wins and this is definitely not a topic.
At this point I want us to lose out.
Only way to insure Ireland goes... HE is the reason we suck. Until he is gone we have ZERO shot.
It was a package deal. People wanted them both gone.
Wins sell seats.
The only way Ireland goes is if we promote Gaine.
You're right that a new GM probably doesn't help ticket sales at this point, its too little, too late for that. My question is who was full of **** when we were told this wasn't a rebuilding year. Either Ireland convinced Ross of that or Ross was just spouting **** to the fans in order to sell tickets.
If I were Ross and I really believed we would be trying to contend this season I would have a conversation the week before the season that would go something like this: A blind monkey could see that your offseason "moves" wouldn't help us win games or help ticket sales this season ...SO WTF JEFF!?!?
For me the biggest reason we need to beat Buffalo and Jacksonville is that will put us at 5-3 at home this season which is a big step in the right direction. If they lose one or both of those games that'll make 4 seasons in a row without a winning record at home. Above everything this is the real reason for dwindling fan support imo. Even if you're 8-8 every season but 8-0 at home I think the fans would still be coming in droves.
I don't expect Steve Ross to have made any decisions about Ireland yet. Not at 5-7. Ross is no doubt disappointed that the playoffs appear out of the question, but he's probably thinking 8-8 and a 2nd place finish in the division is still very much in reach. That would be undeniable improvement from a year ago and that would really bolster claims that they're on the right track.
But Armando's source made it clear that the topic will be revisited if the Dolphins tank the rest of the way out. If the rest of the season goes how I think it's going to go, the topic will indeed be revisited. If they take a blowout loss to the 49ers here and then surprisingly lose to the Jaguars...Armando may want to check with his source again.
My guess is that if Steve Ross thinks that firing Ireland will improve ticket sales, he will do it. But my guess is also that Steve Ross thinks that firing the General Manager and replacing him with a Brian Gaine or some other guy that the casual fan won't instantly recognize will do nothing to put butts in seats. And my only reason for thinking that Steve Ross thinks that is that I personally think that firing Jeff Ireland will have no impact on ticket sales.
Id be shocked if the Patriots sit their starters. They have never hesitated in their vindictiveness against real or imagined slights. Belicheat's record against Miami isnt as good as his record against other divisional opponents and hes always shown an eagerness to win our games. As well, they could easily be fighting for a top seed in the playoff berthing. The Broncos just won and went 10-3. Between them and the Ravens i just cant see New England giving away a game.
For me personally, I could take or leave Jeff Ireland. If he is fired I will be OK with it, but I won't be dancing in the street. If he is retained I will also be OK with it because I can see Ross' reasoning behind it. Again, if kept, I won't be dancing in the streets either. I am on the fence with him at this point.
New England pretty much sat their starters in the 2005 season finale when Saban beat them. In 2010 the Patriots sat a bunch of players in the season finale, but Sparano couldn't beat them. If the Patriots are locked into their playoff position, they will probably sit some starters. We are probably looking at facing Ryan Mallett, not Brady.
No way. Brady will start and cut our throats just like he did in 2010.
Possible. But the competition for that second bye week in the AFC is red hot with New England and Baltimore both 9-3 and the Denver Broncos having just gone to 10-3 tonight. The Patriots lost to Baltimore head-to-head and another division loss would give the Patriots the same conference record as the Broncos and Ravens. Not to mention, the Patriots play games against both the 49ers AND Texans before they play games against us. If the Patriots lose one of those games, the pressure will be even more on. Yet, if they win both and therefore beat the Texans (who still have to play Indy twice), that could put the Patriots in the running for home field throughout the playoffs.
The year they played all their backups against us, they headed into the game 13-2 quite literally unable to lose their #1 seed in the AFC playoffs no matter what happened in the Week 17 game against the Dolphins.
On the other hand, look at 2011. In 2011 the Patriots headed into a Week 17 game against the Buffalo Bills at 12-3 which was the same record as the Baltimore Ravens and Pittsburgh Steelers. The Steelers BEAT the Patriots head to head earlier in the year, so if the Ravens and Patriots lost in Week 17 while the Steelers won, the Patriots would've lost the #1 seed to the Steelers. It's unclear to me whether the Patriots would have lost the #1 seed to the Ravens in a tie, because they'd have had the same conference record and I don't feel like figuring out the "common opponents" tiebreak.
Anyway, point being, there was a mere CHANCE that the Patriots would lose #1 seeding in that week if they took it easy and lost to the Buffalo Bills. They wouldn't have lost the bye week, mind you. Just gone from #1 seed to #2 seed. And you know what happened? Tom Brady played the ENTIRE game. You know what's interesting about that? The fact that the Buffalo Bills jumped out to a 21-0 lead right away, giving the Patriots every excuse to fold up their tents and rest their starters, and just accept that the #2 seed was a possibility if the Ravens lost and the Steelers won.
They didn't do that. They kept plowing away with Tom Brady. They scored one touchdown, then another, then a field goal, then another field goal to pull to 21-20. They took the lead with 1 minute left in the 3rd quarter at 28-20. Did Brady leave yet? Nope. Threw another touchdown to go 35-21 with 11 minutes left in the game. Did Tom Brady leave yet? Nope. Did they even start RUNNING THE BALL at that point? Nope. On the next drive, up 35-21 with the Bills pretty much in give-up mode, Tom Brady dropped back to pass on 9 of the 14 plays of the next drive, capping off with a touchdown to Gronk to go up 42-21 with 3 minutes left. Only with 1:30 remaining in the game, now up 49-21 because the defense returned a Fitzpatrick interception for yet another score, did the Patriots offense march out there without Tom Brady.
So don't go assuming that we'll be seeing Ryan Mallett in Week 17. This is the team that reinvented the idea of "running up the score" in the NFL. If there's a chance they could get the #1 seed or #2 seed, they'll be playing for every inch in Week 17.
And that's the other thing I forgot to mention. Even in 2010 when the Patriots very literally had the #1 seed LOCKED prior to their Week 17 game against us, they still marched Tom Brady out there for the first three quarters until they were up 31-0, at which point they put in Brian Hoyer. They sat some of their starters, such as Wes Welker, but not most of them. They didn't start sitting people until they were up a TON.
Notice how Nublar is always the one looking for articles that says Ireland is safe. Dude is hoping he stays just as much as he wanted Sparano to stay. :lol:
I wonder if you fist pumped one last time when Sparano's-led offense beat our LA Dolphins, I mean Miami Dolphins.