Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Casas9425, Feb 9, 2013.
Sounds fair let the people that will be paying for it at some point make the choice. I dont agree with the welfare for the NFl but I agree with the taxpayers making the choice
It's just a desperation move on the Dolphins part. It has no chance of moving forward, fortunately or unfortunately.
Christ, reading this gives me flashbacks of when the Islanders tried a referendum to get their arena passed. These things are the kiss of death.
I just posted in the other thread. This one wasn't here when I began that post. For convenience purposes I'll just paste what I wrote there:
Now there will be a county referendum on the public funding. The Dolphins reversed course and agreed to that today. Looks like they were backed into a corner, sensing it otherwise wasn't going to happen in Tallahassee, given the makeup of the legislature. Dade County typically gets the shaft, let's put it that way.
I'm surprised there isn't a separate thread. I heard about this a couple of hours ago, on the way home from the golf course. I suspect the news posters believe this is bad news, so they are content to ignore it. But I'm not sure it is bad news, for the ones supporting the plan. The Dolphins could never prevail in a high participation general election atmosphere, but a specialized referendum is an entirely different matter, like a primary. The most energized voters dictate the outcome. No doubt the Dolphins will spend tons of money trying to influence who shows up and what they are thinking. Lots of major upsets in primaries.
I hope it fails miserably.
Regardless, referendums are not cheap. I hope they wait for a situation with other items on the ballot. If it's a solo job, rushed into March or April, the Dolphins should have to foot the bill.
My huge offense with Ross on this whole issue was his not wanting it to go to a vote. How conveinent. I personally think there are more important issues than fixing his stadium. The same stadium that just hosted a BCS title game but somehow is obsolete to have a big game in lol.
You do know Doogie that anyone can hit the "Post New Thread" button and create a new topic about news? Don't you? If you knew about this a couple of hours ago, why didn't you create the thread? I am sure you will say it was because you were driving home from playing golf so you were not available. Fine, but remember the next time you insult the other members of this message board with a backhanded comment that they also might be away from their computer for extended periods of times. You might have thought no one would call you out for that attempted slap in the face to the rest of the entire site, but it won't slip through the cracks with this Dolphins fan. You didn't post the thread after hearing about it a "couple of hours ago" and you didn't post it, so please save the insults.
As for the topic on hand, let's hope the locals make the right decision and pass this. Afterall they are not going to pay for it, it will be tourists. Be smart Florida.
I bet the Fins are big players in FA now to create a buzz before the vote.
Maybe I mean we have to spend anyway but its not like we havent tried to spend money. I dont fault our front office for not spending money I just question where they spent it. Richard Marshall at his price made no sense esp with a possible chance to get Reggie wayne. Marshall has never been a good starter over a season but yet we gave him pretty big money
I hope Floridians are smart and realize they are paying for it. That while the money is gained from tourist sales, programs that are usually supported by said tourist sales are going to be $200 million thinner. So yes, Floridians are going to be paying for this thing, one way or another.
Im just trying to figure out why nobody thinks anybody in florida ever travels to miami for weekend
If they raise hotel taxes then a good share will be paid by tourists. This would be great for the whole community because if Miami gets in the super bowl rotation that is a huge regular win fall.
there is winfall but no where near what the nfl calculates it to be. Many economists rate it about a fourth of what the nfl tries to account for. But ok u get back what u pay for stadium possibly in 10 years due to a couple of super bowls and thats a maybe then u are hit up again for more money so where comes the great gain. The great impact on the whole community is alot of mythology for most part. Also I wouldnt even count on two superbowls in ten years since the nfl has no figured out how to blackmail communities to get new stadiums.
The town has to decide whether or not they want a dinosaur of a stadium.
Super bowl here we come
Thats assuming Miami gets into the regular rotation. Like any decent blackmailer, Goodell and company can change the terms whenever they wish, much like they already have. After all, this entire thing started with Goodell declaring Miami is out because some folks got rained on in '07. With the plethora of teams already pushing for new stadiums(Chargers, Vikings, Rams), teams that will have to shortly(Jags), and teams already making renovations(Panthers), your going to run out of Superbowls to regularly give out.
That just focuses on the practical and not the objections based on principle.
Florida is going to be paying off the Marlins stadium for another 36 years. As of last year, the Dolphins are $230 million in debt from their last set of renovations(assuming that hasnt been paid off, which i tend to doubt or else Ross wouldnt be pushing for public money this hard). Residents of south Florida have every right to be nervous about this deal. And people shouldnt be trying to sneak a fast one by them by suggesting "its not coming out of your pocket". It is, one way or another, it is.
I don't mind being insulted. Fully expected it, in fact. When I'm in Las Vegas my friends and I trade insults every day. The difference is, there's a result at the end of the night. Often dozens of results. We can verify whose insult was warranted and whose was not. In vague cases like a stadium renovation, insults are meaningless, and frankly boring, because we'll see only one version. I'd like a new stadium. Others want the patchwork. Both won't happen.
You've got to concede, a two hour window around here without news like this prompting its own thread is highly unusual. I'd go so far as to label it bizarre. You can't be the only news poster because there's an award for it. So if I criticized anyone it was that block, the top five along with aspiring challengers.
Frankly, I don't like to start threads anymore because there's a feeling I have to hang around and respond. I don't like to hang around. I started an Ed Reed thread in the NFL Forum a week or two ago and I stuck around but virtually nobody replied.
To be fair, I just remembered the source of the referendum info. It was that Renshaw guy. What station is that, 560? He broke it just as I was leaving the parking lot of the course. That was just after it got dark, maybe 6:15. He said it was an exclusive so perhaps it didn't hit the wires for quite a while and none of the typical news posters had access to it.
You do a great job at what you do, BTW. Even if I don't agree with everything.
That so called dinosaur of a stadium just hosted a BCS championship game. There is truly nothing wrong with sunlife stadium. Could it be improved yes but any stadium can be improved. Personally as a fan I dont have one issue with the stadium except the 25 dollar parking and the outrageous cost of tickets and concessions. I dont really go to football games much anymore because in reality I dont find the value in going. I find much greater value in a baseball game or basketball game. Went to a spurs game recently and the tickets were like 30 dollars for two. I went to dolphins game in az last year and it was quite cheaper than in miami so I was ok with price of ticket. I personally prefer watching all events on tv except hockey because u actually can see more of the game and its personally a better and more comfortable experience
I wasnt aware that this town owned this stadium.
Nice post bro.:hi5: I think that is why this deal gets done differently then the Marlins. The Chargers here are struggling to get a new stadium deal. I will tell you this the Miami community better get it together before San Diego does because if they get a new state of the art stadium I can guarantee you they will get into the rotation right away because of the climate, the beach, and everything is so close. A lot of commentators say how they love doing San Diego games because the weather out here is ideal. If Miami can't get it together then they have a harder time in getting into the rotation.
I know the Miami area has been hit really hard. This could help with more jobs if the stadium is sold out game after game, host more other events such as soccer, the Dolphins get into the playoffs, and the super bowls to boot. The super bowl will help that community a whole lot more than if they don't have the super bowls.
I dont think there is going to be much of a rotation anymore because now we have the blackmail effect for communities to build stadiums. The Nfl has alot of other cities still to blackmail to get new stadiums so many places will get superbowls as their part in the blackmail process.
Then don't do it and watch the Dolphins stadium turn into a dump like Qualcomm is for the Chargers.
The difference is San Diego is the owner of the stadium and is responsible for the costs of fixing it. The city of Miami does not own Sun Life Stadium. If it turns into a dump then thats due to poor ownership and the nfl.
Bro the Charger fans are tired of how the Spanos got over of the city with the guarantee sell out that the city had to pay here for years. All the Spanos care about here is walking away with 30 million profit year after year which they are averaging between 25-30 million a year now. The reason they won't get a new stadium done is the Spanos family won't kick in enough. Ross is offering to put some money in to make this happen. So Mr. Ross and the Dolphins have to suffer because the community got into a bad deal with the Marlins? If you are a business man and you reach out to the community for a partnership and get turned away and there is no partnership why keep your team there?
As far as Im concerned he can attempt to move his team any time he likes. he owns the damn stadium. Now Im sure the NFL is not going to just let him pick up and move so they can lose another major market.
Its mighty white of him to put in funds to fix a stadium he owns 100 percent of. How is Ross suffering , its expected when u own something that your profits go into upkeep. I mean should we go around and pay for renovation of every business in Miami. The big difference is the city of Miami actually owns the baseball stadium although it was a horrible deal for city since the marlins make money from every event there somehow. Im personally starting to hate the new business of sport where millionaires are subsidized by hurting tax populace to keep more of their millions. Pro teams should be quite ashamed of who is footing bill but thats why they rake it in
No more corporate welfare.
The citizens always get screwed with these public financing things...Never pays off studies have shown.
The worst part of these things are these owners heavily support the GOP who want less ordinary people welfare, and less government spending..But corporate welfare spending via government is okay...:rolleyes2:
Personally u have to love the business model. U own a business and dont even have to pay for fixing your own venue.
Ridiculous. Why does a billionaire need welfare? If a SB is such a boon to the economy, who don't the local businesses chip in to help make this happen?
I don't think the NFL would have any issue whatsoever with the team moving, it worked out brilliantly for them the way the Baltimore-Cleveland situation played out, two brand new stadiums and a new solid market. I'm sure they would love to replicate that entire scenario.
There is not an abundence of cities willing to take on that cost. for all the talk of LA u notice they havent built a stadium. Miami is not such a replaceable city. City governments are learning the hard way that paying for stadiums is more of a burden than boon on their part esp with the teams usually getting other benefits from other events. Like right now the only city the nfl keeps dangling is LA and thats for good reason.
I wonder if Braman would put some money towards the vote no...
He got that useless mayor and commissioner voted out after that Marlins fiasco...Spent a few million of his own dollars on that endeavor...
I wondered about that myself, if Braman, or anyone, will fund the opposition, or if it will be entirely one sided. I'm confident the Herald will do a good job.
BTW, I notice I was kicked out of VIP tonight. LOL. Quite a coincidence, I'm sure. A minor spat with Nublar and suddenly I'm booted. No big deal, since I never post in there anyway. I appreciate being voted in, many years ago.
It's actually very similar to the way the Dolphins now operate, in contrast to the franchise I grew up to love. Cross us, or make us believe you crossed us, and we'll take any petty retaliatory step we can think of, including a threat to pack our bags and run away.
First off you need to understand you didn't get kicked out of VIP your membership expired. Second of all you were the one that also had nothing but negative comments about the new VIP forum to which you never went in there and posted or even saw what it is about. You may want to get your facts straight before you take shots at the site as well as a staff member. Let alone you don't even offer to help the site that you love to criticize.
No they won't. This is an additional tax adding 1% to transient rental property aka hotel rooms. This is where your Florida TOURIST dollars go. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/publications/2001/house/reports/tourism/pdfs/descrip.pdf
For those that won't read it most of the taxes are appropriated to help and maintain tourism in the State of Florida. Along with the upkeep of Zoos, convention centers and stadiums for spring training. And the food and beverage taxes help to feed and shelter the homeless.
I understand that some people in Florida travel in Florida, but when you do this you become a tourist and pay all of the taxes that a tourist should. If you travel to New York would you not expect to pay taxes.
I don't fully understand the issues but if what i understand to be true is true (that the stadium upgrades will go to a public vote), the stadium renovations have zero chance of passing. Extremely sad. Not sure why Ross would endorse letting the public vote on this issue...
On a relevant note, my wife is undegoing care at Plantation General Hospital. It's a safety net hospital that was sold to a private for-profit corporation (HCA). The staff has been amazing and the services are top notch. Privatization does wonders...and saves money. Jackson could've undergone the same privatization, but moronic politicians and unions and commissioners and board members opted to stay public and bleed Miami-Dade county about 300 million dollars per year.
I say this bc local politicians and commissioners get in the way of what's best for South Florida all too often. Ross approached the renovations in the best possible manner, and it's likely that Braman and other interests will incite the people of South Florida to handily vote down the stadium renovations too. Along with Casinos, this looks to be another huge boon for South Florida business voted down by people who are wholly incompetent and/or a public that is uninformed or swayed by the likes of Braman, Corben, etc.
This is very sad if true.
So you're fine with everything about the stadium except for the fact that at the end of the day, the Miami Dolphins and SunLife Stadium are businesses and, as businesses tend to do, they try to create revenue. Got it. Maybe we can just move the Dolphins to Lockhart give away free tickets field a CFL caliber team and pay those players strictly off TV money?
It has nothing to do with a "spat" in this thread, your free VIP subscription gift just happened to expire. If you would like to re-join VIP you can buy a subscription this time to get back in. You were not "kicked out", you can get back into VIP at anytime you want.
When did Hayden say that this town thought they owned the stadium? Either we vote to upgrade the stadium, and support Stephen Ross' ambitions to make the Miami Dolphins the class of the NFL again, or they don't. It's our choice now, unfortunately.
You have zero clue what the nature of business is. I own a business on 441, a state road. We moved to a bigger, better location on 441 and because we stayed within the city and on state road 7, and pay our fair share of taxes, we got $150,000 for the "beautification" of the city, and to help upgrade the exterior of our building. Those funds came from the state. Such is the nature of public/private partnerships. In 1 year, we pay twice that in taxes. The intersection where we operate is now flooded with businesses attempting to open, and old, run down buildings and land are being sought after because of the traffic that, in part, we helped generate to the area. All this creates additional tax revenue.
Local and state governments invest in worthy causes, and everybody wins. That's how business works.
I don't understand the referendum and how it's going to work. I'm trying to inform myself about THAT issue. The stadium renovation, and the public/private partnership, is common sense, win/win, etc.
I understand that you lack the capacity to argue the merits of your meritless argument. People like you are the problem down here. I'll leave it at that.
Please feel free to provide said studies. You seem to be very educated about this issue. And by very educated i mean you are completely, utterly clueless.
You like to mix vegas numbers into most discussions. Just curious , what are the odds you go back to rooting for the jets?
Quite actiing like that business is not clearing least least 25 million in profit every year. All business'e try to create revenue and its not like the dolphins dont get plenty of sweetheart deals from the local government like all sports teams but making us responsible to pay for a great majority of stadium repair is quite ridiculous. The NFL wants to bleed local economies of even more money to fix stadiums that they make almost all the money from. The dolphins would also be making like 10,000 more fans in revenue if they actually put out a winning team at some point , not to mention playoff revenue. But your right if a business can get a free handout they will take it
Maybe because he lives in Vegas lol. I would bring up El Paso where Im stationed now but el paso sucks and doesnt fit in any positive convo
We have hope now in Tannehill and Philbin. Biggest offseason of our lives. Ross is rebranding the franchise. Stadium hopefully gets renovated..and yet I agree w you, winning is really what matters. But we are headed in the right direction, and no one can dispute that.
And btw, if ur 25 million in profit estimate is true, considering that Ross paid over a billion for the franchise, that's a pretty terrible investment by Ross. I'd hope he profits more than that. Maybe it really is a labor of love for him..
I said no less and investment is towards when he sells team because teams never sell for less than they are bought for. There is no labor of love for NFL owners its all about exposure and making money although yes a football team is definately not your best investment. He bought team above what value was considered at the time and Im sure he is hoping to get no less than 1.5 billion if and when he decides to sell. The cowboys are the most valuable team in the league at over 2 billion.
A big point of concern on this whole matter to me is that 235 million was spent to upgrade a few years ago and people still call it a dinosaur so why should we have faith 400 million will be money well spent. Sounds like a money pit or maybe just a bunch of bs to whats actually being spent
When the Dolphins were the class of the NFL, Joe Robbie built a stadium without a dime of public money. Same with Mickey Arison, the class of NBA's Miami Heat, and American Airlines Arena. The city donated the land for both venues, that's more than enough for a privately owned facility.
True people dont realize that the area of Miami has done plenty to help the dolphins over the years but people want to act like its our responsibility to pay for their costs of doing business