Barry Jackson: Some FA Notes

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Hayden Fox, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2009
    Messages:
    30,898
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    48
    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/

    ### Though we hear the Dolphins would like to keep Reggie Bush andSean Smith at the right price, as of Tuesday they had not reached out to their representatives, let alone made an offer – different from their approach with Brian Hartline and Jake Long, who rejected in-season offers and are awaiting new ones.### We hear the Dolphins’ new logo will be different and more creative than the one circulating on line. ### Even though Jonathan Martin showed promise, no NFL tackle allowed more quarterback hurries than Martin’s 47. And please don’t suggest that the Dolphins’ play at left tackle didn’t suffer without Long.Long allowed four sacks and 10 hurries in 11-plus games. Martin allowed three sacks and 17 hurries in just under five games at left tackle, and Pro Football Focus graded Martin’s work clearly lower than Long’s. So Miami will make another attempt to keep Long, though not at the dollar figure he ideally wants.### Some have asked if the Dolphins will get compensation if they lose Long or other unrestricted free agents. Potentially -- depending on who the Dolphins sign from other teams -- but the compensation wouldn’t come until the 2014 draft.The NFL says a team losing “more or better compensatory free agents than it acquires in the previous year is eligible to receive compensatory picks,” but no more than four. The NFL uses a complex formula to determine compensatory-worthy free agents, based on salary, playing time and postseason honors.For perspective, Oakland got three extra picks last year (third, fourth and fifth) after losing Nnamdi Asomugha and others in 2010. Most picks are in the fourth through seventh rounds, so that’s what Miami could expect if it loses more impact free agents than it adds from other teams.And keep in mind that three teams got extra picks last year simply by losing better free agents than they signed, even though there was no net loss
    Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/#storylink=cpy
     
  2. Austin Tatious

    Austin Tatious Starter

    Joined:
    Sep 2004
    Messages:
    4,342
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The data on Johnathan Martin is interesting. 17 hurries? That's a lot.
     
  3. Mudder1310

    Mudder1310 A True Fan

    Joined:
    Jan 2012
    Messages:
    2,129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What were Longs rookie sack/hurry numbers? I mean, Martin wasn't drafted to be the LT. An offseason in the weight room and working with staff will improve his performance.
     
  4. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    5,519
    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    63
    As previously discussed, any compensatory pick would probably be a 7th rounder. Martin definitely needs to improve whether he is on the right or left side
     
  5. Aqua and Orange

    Aqua and Orange Poster With A Porpoise Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    6,611
    Likes Received:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Different logo than the one we have seen? First we have heard of this.

    Hopefully this isnt a Marlins esque logo denial, i.e a straight lie.

    I find it sad so many losers have claimed to have seen this new logo and all are afraid to confirm or deny whether the one out there is the one they saw. Straight bs artists.
     
  6. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2009
    Messages:
    30,898
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I am not a PFF guy. I still say let Martin get stronger working with an NFL strength and conditioning program throughout the offseason and see what happens.
     
  7. SQuinn17

    SQuinn17 League Dominator

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    5,548
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    63
    No need to worry IMO. Last year was developmental, and that's how it should be viewed. This guy played in and out of his natural position.
     
  8. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

    Joined:
    May 2011
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Martin was god awful and now we realize two thngs IMO.

    1. Ireland cant draft for a wco. How do draft a tackle this bad in tje 2nd rnd?

    2. We have one good olineman going into next season. Martin sucks, long wants a ton of $ and doesn't fit the offense, incog and Jerry definitely don't fit the mold of a guard.

    Oline woes continue.
     
  9. Zounds

    Zounds CPA4LYFE Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    8,356
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The kind of strength Martin needs cant be aquired in just one offseason in the weight room. You arent going to double your strength in 6 months.

    As far as Jake Long goes, this is the first time I have heard that he was offered a contract mid-season. Too bad Barry Jackson doesnt say what his source is.
     
  10. dhavitia

    dhavitia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2007
    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Long was Probowler IMO, not in favor or against keeping Long, just a fact, we do not know if Martin can be good at LT, there are question marks and that is not good for a team with already some questions around.
     
  11. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2009
    Messages:
    30,898
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Who said he had to "double his strength". He can make a ton of gains in one offseason. It is not just physical training, but improving his technique on the field. I think Martin can be solid next year.
     
  12. arammell

    arammell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2011
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You really think he needs to DOUBLE his strength?
     
  13. arammell

    arammell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2011
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Come on dude the sky isn't falling! You're comparing a rookies numbers being thrown in the fire and bounced from one side of the line to the other to a number 1 overall picked LT in jake long. Give the kid some time to develop for ****s sake!
     
  14. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    16,430
    Likes Received:
    771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To be honest, it seems like Tannehill was being hurry in every other throw so the whole oline was allowing a lot of pressures. Every time I hear or see how bad the oline played it gets me thinking about the so much money and picks that has been spent on the oline and they still sucked this season.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  15. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    16,430
    Likes Received:
    771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, just remember that Long didn't allow that many sacks or hurries in his rookie year. I'm willing to give Martin time as I have no choice anyway but he played LT in college. That's his natural position so I'd expect him to make great progress in 2013 if he stays at LT.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  16. arammell

    arammell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2011
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why does everything have to be so damn dramatic? I'm so sick of the blame Ireland for everything bull ****! How can we go from Jonathan Martin being a steal in this past draft to Ireland sucking so bad and blowing an obvious pick? Step away from the cliff because your whining is annoying as hell!
     
  17. arammell

    arammell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2011
    Messages:
    411
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think that is a fine expectation to have him improve from this season to next. I'm pretty sure Jonathan Martin understands and has the same expectation for himself. It drives me nuts that people are already saying we swung and missed and that its all Ireland's fault.
     
  18. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

    Joined:
    May 2011
    Messages:
    5,335
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What's dramatic about being worried we have 1 olineman that fits the zbs, amd pointing out the one Ireland drafted in the 2nd rnd is rated among the worst in the NFL.

    This isn't dramatic, it's the truth. Martin was abysmal this year. He didn't look like he even belonged in the NFL. Got completely bullied.
     
  19. Zounds

    Zounds CPA4LYFE Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    8,356
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Of course he can make gains, but he isnt going to get to the strength level he needs to be at in one offseason. Many of these NFL players have been doing it for 10 years. The guy was consistently overpowered, and while you might be able compensate for lack of strenght with perfect technique, he still has a long way to go. 47 hurries is abosultely unacceptable.

    ---------- Post added at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------

    Yes I do
     
  20. El Calebra

    El Calebra Fan Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    May 2012
    Messages:
    1,201
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Are you guys watching the same Dolphins I am watching every single week? Long was getting beat often. I hope it was due to injury and not ineffectiveness. Martin IMO performed admirably and most likely will start on the left side next season.
    Its amazing, how I am certain we are all watching the same team, but have differing opinions on what is actually happening on the field.

    I hope to see Jake back. But he will need to play much better than he did this season. Otherwise let Martin have the job. It is his position of choice and experience after all.

    Ps..............Tannehills wife is to skinny and Macarrons girl friend is a barbie doll. Real women are where its at.
     
  21. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Aug 2008
    Messages:
    11,794
    Likes Received:
    525
    Trophy Points:
    113

    ....lets see your wife.
     
  22. Valandui

    Valandui Lumberjack Batman Donator

    Joined:
    May 2008
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Also, he turned it down. So much for him and Hartline taking team friendly deals.
     
  23. NRA

    NRA Roll Gypsy Roll

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    4,399
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    48
    wow. THE DOUBLE DOOM!!

    first we find out IRELAND is being retained [instantly killing next season] and now they want to actually keep SEAN SMITH?

    you CANT WIN with either of those two in the mix [yes, smith is that bad!].

    and now our owner is blaming the last regime for everything under the sun. almost sounds like i am watching politics and not football!!
     
  24. OyeDale305

    OyeDale305 MIA#1

    Joined:
    May 2010
    Messages:
    2,305
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ireland has to many picks to screw us over -___________-
     
  25. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

    Joined:
    Dec 2012
    Messages:
    1,808
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not gonna sit here and let someone use "statistical analysis" instead of true evaluating from your own two eyes. Martin WILL perform better than Jake at Left Tackle in the years coming.. Simple as that.. And besides when he stood straight up and got bull rushed into Tannehill by Aldon Smith.. but that is Aldon Smith... that is a leverage pad level thing not as much strength.. I think Martin needs to work on his footwork and pad level more than strength.. Thinking back to the INDY game I think Jake got beat every play by dwight freeney... and got thrown to the ground by Merriman and then Merriman made a TFL on Thursday Night Football.. Martin spent only 3 weeks working on the left side and I think he works at it and has a great season next year... he is a ROOKIE after all
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2013
  26. ONole1

    ONole1 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2006
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Jake gave up 2 sacks, 9 hits and 15 hurries. You also have to give credit to Chad Pennington as a seasoned veteran having a career year versus a Rookie.
     
  27. False Alarm

    False Alarm Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2004
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    6
    PFF isn't really "'statistical analysis,'" i don't think. IIRC they grade players' performance on each snap all season and simply rank players based on the accumulation of positive and negative grades for each snap over the whole season. in other words, they evaluate with their eyeballs. i often disagree with them too, but from what i know it ain't like they're using football sabermetrics or something.

    as for martin's performance vs long's, anyone who thinks martin was better than long at LT is crazy IMO. martin was OK vs SF, fine against jax and buf, and hideously godawful against NE (at least as bad as long was against indy). martin doesn't run block as well as even a diminished long and probably never will. he has the tools to handle speed rushers better than long can at this point in long's career, but those tools aren't as developed as they need to be yet. long was unbelievably bad against freeney but the rest of the season he was more of an average performer IMO (honestly probably a hair above average). problem with that is that mere average-ish performance makes him massively overpaid.

    martin is a better choice than long cuz he's a better value for his performance level and a better fit for the system. but martin is not generally a better tackle than jake long, not yet anyway.
     
  28. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

    Joined:
    Dec 2012
    Messages:
    1,808
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    just ReRead my post and had a typo... I first put performed better than Long at Left tackle... which I rightfully changed to "will perform better in future years" There isn't an offensive lineman I would pay over 10 million dollars besides Clady from Denver who at one point in the season gave up ZERO sacks and they have to pay him to protect Mannings neck
     
  29. kcbrown

    kcbrown Life is what we make it. Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 2005
    Messages:
    4,331
    Likes Received:
    369
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I agree....but I wouldn't turn either down.
     
  30. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

    Joined:
    Jul 2005
    Messages:
    2,212
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    CK was talking sort of this same thing on a different site with regards to Smith. Long is going to get paid, that is the market. Teams with ****ty LT have hurt qbs or shotty play. Bring Jake back at money less then Joe Thomas even if we do the two year deal thing like we did Solai, let him prove his next contract. IF you look at what starting LT gets paid its not peanuts. The same can be said about Smith, he wants McCourty money. about 7.2 mil. As CK said,this is what the market cost and actually is cheap compared to many corners above Smith. Corners and tackles get paid. Everyone needs to realize that. If we are to replace Long with Vollmer do people think he's coming in at 5 mil/yr? If you do you don't understand market economics even a little. As for Martin, lets let him gain strength and man the RT spot. Last time I checked its nice having two good tackles, ask any QB in Arizona if they wouldn't mind having our tackles compared to theirs. Sign Long, get Martin stronger and find a better swing tackle in case of injury. Oh and find a damn LG that can pull and move Richie to RG or cut him. Keep Jerry as our swing tackle. All of that helps our line in my mind.
     
  31. False Alarm

    False Alarm Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2004
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    6
    i can see that.

    honestly, i find long's decline really sad. from the second game of 2009 until about 2/3 of the way thru the 2010 season, long's play was absolutely dominant, the best stretch of tackle play i've ever seen from a dolphin (and i was a fan during the webb years). he looked like a surefire hall of famer and he hadn't even hit his prime yet. then he hurt his elbow, i think it was against tennessee, and the next week long was obviously not the same; julius peppers abused him. and ever since then it's just been a steady stream of injuries and declining play and it just sucks.
     
  32. matt11390

    matt11390 Starter

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    4,094
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    48
    My gut tells me Miami is much better with Long at LT and Martin at RT. Or maybe my gut is telling me I'm hungry.
     
  33. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2012
    Messages:
    18,210
    Likes Received:
    2,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Im not saying we should hand him the big money but Long is still a great player. He wont last a week in free agency before he gets the money he wants. Long is better than Martin dont let the hate around here fool you.
     
  34. houtz

    houtz Pay the man!

    Joined:
    Oct 2005
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If Ireland can lock Long up for a reasonable price I don't think any of us should complain. I'd like to know what numbers Hartline and Long turned down during the season. Would be disheartening to hear Hartline is wanting big money.
     
  35. Mr. Day

    Mr. Day Starter

    Joined:
    Aug 2005
    Messages:
    1,642
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    They must have been low, because Chad Pennington made it through the season, the Dolphins only had a few turnovers, and he made the Pro Bowl. Martin is good, but he is no Jake Long.
     
  36. Zounds

    Zounds CPA4LYFE Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    8,356
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I dont think ANY free agent would ever accept the first offer that was made to them, especially when a GM will start low. I wouldnt think much of Hartine or Long's refusal so sign the very first thing offered.
     
  37. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

    Joined:
    Dec 2005
    Messages:
    9,614
    Likes Received:
    292
    Trophy Points:
    83
    and two of those games were against terrible defensive teams with poor pass rushers
     
  38. matt11390

    matt11390 Starter

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    4,094
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Obviously price and health are the key factors with Long but he has been the best OL since Richmond Webb. If he can get healthy it's a no brainier we have to keep him no matter the cost. Out future QB depends on great blindside protection. Of course that's if he is healthy. We won't find anyone better. Keeping Long at LT and Martin at RT, along with Pounct at C, we can focus on our guard play.
     
  39. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

    Joined:
    Jul 2008
    Messages:
    52,261
    Likes Received:
    2,006
    Trophy Points:
    113
    martin was bad in week 17...

    interesting that jake and hartline both declined offers during the season...i wonder if jake wishes now he had signed...maybe...hartline i'm sure they low balled him and he wouldn't take the bait...betting on $5 mil plus per year now at least
     
  40. CattailsrEdible

    CattailsrEdible Banned Hammered

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think hartline wants to play for an Ohio team! His girl tweeted awhile back that Miami is no place to raise a family! Cleveland would be my guess!

    Mosquitoes Refuse To Bite Me
     

Share This Page