Best and Worst Drafts by Division, Conference, and Overall

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by j-off-her-doll, May 3, 2011.

  1. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    AFC East:

    Best: New York Jets
    Worst: New England Patriots

    AFC North:

    Best: Pittsburgh Steelers
    Worst: Cincinnati Bengals

    AFC South:

    Best: Houston Texans
    Worst: Tennessee Titans

    AFC West:

    Best: Denver Broncos
    Worst: San Diego Chargers

    . . .

    AFC Best: Houston Texans
    AFC Worst: Tennessee Titans

    . . .

    NFC East:

    Best: New York Giants
    Worst: Philadelphia Eagles

    NFC North:

    Best: Green Bay Packers
    Worst: Minnesota Vikings

    NFC South:

    Best: New Orleans Saints
    Worst: Tampa Bay Buccaneers

    NFC West:

    Best: San Fransisco 49ers
    Worst: Seattle Seahawks

    . . .

    NFC Best: Green Bay Packers
    NFC Worst: Seattle Seahawks

    . . .

    Draft Super Bowl Champions: Houston Texans
    Draft Super Bowl Lottery Winners: Seattle Seahawks
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I suppose it depends on your grading terms.

    To me everything has to be factored and that means factoring in New England's trading of present picks for future picks, which I think easily makes up for any disagreements I might have with Nate Solder (who was set to be drafted by the Giants at #19 if New England didn't take him) or Stevan Ridley. I have no problems with their Ras-I Dowling pick, or their Shane Vereen pick. I think the Mallett pick was a boondoggle, and most analysts seem to agree that it was a "steal" for them. Markell Carter was a pretty decent pick to me. Lee Smith I can get with because I know exactly what role he'll play in their system and I think he's perfect for it. They had Kyle Brady playing a similar role a few years ago, played a LOT of snaps, pretty much almost purely as a blocker.

    I'd give the worst grades to Nate Solder, Stevan Ridley and Marcus Cannon. But their acquisition of 1st and 2nd rounders in 2012 more than make up for that and the Mallett pick will be a boon. Overall I'd give their Draft something like a B.
     
  3. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    If their draft existed in a vacuum, I'd be inclined to give them a much higher grade. I just can't give them too much credit for acquiring these picks, because I see them underachieve with those picks year in and year out, and it's THE reason - in my estimation - that they lose to teams like the Ravens and Jets come playoff time. When you look at the talent on the teams aside from the QB position, you wonder how the Patriots got there in the firs place. Swap Solder for Prince; swap Dowling for Brooks Reed or Leonard Hankerson (I see WR as a real need for that team) or M. Leshoure and you're talking about an outstanding start. Remember how a ton of Miami fans were crying in fear over all the picks the Patriots had going into this draft? How scary the prospect was? Armando even wrote an article about it. What did they really do? Are they any scarier? I hate our draft for this FO. Without a QB, you're never doing anything. But, I think we got significantly better in a few areas. Our running game should be much better, and our passing game added options that bring them into the 21st Century. If we ever do get a QB and a real FO, we should look back at this draft with some fondness - behind the frustration.

    Mallett is the only pick I like from New England, and he's not going to play for how long? I mean, for the sake of ****, you have a top-5 QB in his 30s. With the amount of picks the Patriots have amassed over the last few seasons, they should have one of the very best D's in the NFL.
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    It's all relative. They had bad picks from 2006 to 2008 but starting in 2009 I don't know what means anyone could use to disparage their drafting. Regardless of whether I disagreed with any picks in particular, in 2009 and 2010 they've picked up guys that played a LOT of snaps and have played well within their system. I don't see going 7th level into why despite a 14-2 season record they lose to a team in the playoffs, it's clear that what they're doing has them on the right path and the 14-2 record shows that. They're getting some of the most contribution from young players of any team in the league and when those young players grow up maybe they'll be more prone to playing well in crucial playoff games but in the mean time they've been good FOREVER and their drafting is a part of the reason why.

    I think the Patriots are as scary now as they've ever been. They have all these youngsters they drafted in 2009 and 2010 that have been contributing well and some of them are going to come of age, they've added some more talented role players to a backfield that already accomplished much just as role players not necessarily talented ones, but now they've got talent. They have a backup plan in case Brady gets hurt, something that was crucial to them going for an 11-5 record in 2008. I don't think any other team in football could have lost a player like Tom Brady and still gone 11-5. They could do that because they did the impossible in finding a second franchise starter worthy QB in the late rounds. Now they have Mallett and my evaluation of him has not changed. He'll serve as backup in case Tom Brady gets hurt and then they'll exchange him for picks in a few years. And actually it's really scary to have added Ras-I Dowling. A physical corner that can run with anyone, paired up with Devin McCourty who is going to be a Pro Bowler? That's scary. That was the ONE weakness in their defense last year that you could isolate and hammer on, hammer on, and hammer some more. It'll still be the weakness until Dowling proves it isn't, but the possibility of him closing that gap sometime this year or next year...yeah that DOES scare me. Cuz I know their offense is going to be good and I know their front seven is going to be good.
     
  5. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    If NE actually ever used these picks great but they continue to pass on top level talent for value trades and continue to lose in the 1st round of the playoffs. I couldn't agree any more with you j-off-her-doll about NE!
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    This perception that New England never actually uses their picks is just that...a perception. And a false one at that. Over the last three drafted the Patriots have had 4076.7 "chart points" worth of draft picks allotted to them by the NFL. In each and every single Draft, they have ended up picking between 50 and 100% more "points" worth of players. That includes this year. They were allotted 1185 points' worth of draft picks this year and they used 2400 points' worth of value. That's a 103% premium.

    Details matter.

    False perceptions don't.
     
  7. Namor

    Namor Pro Bowler Finheaven VIP

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    I wished we failed as much as the Pat's.
     
  8. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I never said that they don't use their picks or points. I just don't think they use them well. I saw a team lose to the Jets and Ravens because they were physically overwhelmed as a team.
     
  9. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Sorry, just saw that the previous post probably wasn't addressed to me.

    If Miami and New England switched coaching staffs and QB's, I think Tom Brady would have a much better chance of winning the SB. And, I don't rate Miami as one of the very most talented teams across the board - not as talented as the Jets, Steelers, Ravens, Giants, Packers, etc.
     
  10. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    Let me know when points value wins you anything especially for a team that many perceive as being loaded with talent. The value in collecting multiple picks works best for re-builds that have many, many holes to fill. If your loaded with talent wouldn't picking up the most talented player make more sense then taking that same pick trading back and selecting two good players?

    NE does a fantastic job of working the draft in terms of value but they need play makers on defense and have needed them for 3 years now. So my "perception" becomes the truth when they leave extremely talented players that would make their team a real contender again for value picks that have not made a real difference for them. For three years now the holes have been the same for NE, something our FO/CS get killed for around here but somehow NE escapes the same criticism.
    Tom Brady's championship window is getting smaller each year and NE's draft theory isn't doing anything to take advantage!
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    And YOU let ME know when the Patriots stop having 14 win seasons and stop winning the division. LOL. You're acting like they suck and their failed strategies suck as bad as our failed strategies. Their "fails" are our "wins".
     
  12. dr.jake

    dr.jake Rookie

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    i'd say the giants were the overall winners. mainly becuz we passed on prince. i made it clear he was my choice all along. hope pouncey proves me wrong.
     
  13. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    how bout dallas draft...that secondary is nothing short of horrid and i don't see where they added any upgrades there...unless i've forgotten about someone...jerry jones must have a wink wink with someone who's gonna be a free agent or traded when the time comes

    cause that secondary is horrid at free safety and corner...points a plenty in the passing game

    and i still want someone to explain to me outside of kenrick ellis talents what the jets did that was so damn great
     
  14. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I didn't love any of the AFC East drafts. I like the Wilkerson and Powell picks - those in conjunction with the Ellis pick are enough for me to put them ahead of a really up-and-down Bills draft (mostly down), a Miami draft that saw us pass on QB's and draft a C/G at #15, and a terrible Patriots draft. As a division, I thought the AFC East had some of the worst drafts.
     
  15. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Houston to me had the best draft out of anybody without really having a lot of picks. I'm not too impressed with the Panthers draft either. Seattle's is.... interesting
     
  16. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Houston finally wins that division next year.
     
  17. justdev7

    justdev7 Rookie

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    Seattle had the worst draft that I can remember (granted we don't know how the players will actually work out). The pick that gets me is Chris Durham in the fourth round. It's okay, you're not supposed to know who he is and that's the point.

    Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk
     
  18. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Pats win cus of brady. brady goes. so goes NE. that is the real reason bb is genius. but aside from that, he is a trade addict. still waiting for those great drafts of Butler, BC DT, Chung, ect ect. to really make their mark.

    Great players for NE were drafted years ago....wilfork, brady, ect. but others are just ordinary who play on a team of great coaching and system. thats the diff. they get by while scoring lots of points. oh, and their special teams actually score points. guys like that NC WR makin sean smith look weak.
     
  19. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    Chung stepped up this past season and would have gone on to have a great season had it not been for the injury. AS for the last great player NE drafted, look no further than Devin McCourty from last year, or Sebastian Vollmer from 2009. I mentioned it before, the 06-08 drafts were a badrun, but the 09, 2010 and hopefully 2011 classes have/will done a lot of good for the team. Plenty of rookie and 2nd year players stepped up and helped the team last year, and with everyone getting healthy and more experienced NE will be a force again in 2011. As for trading picks, while I don't always agree with it (trading 28 away this year), it usually works out well for the team. In 2009 we traded a 3rd round pick with Tennessee for a 2nd in 2010. The Titans took Jared Cook, NE took Brandon Spikes the following year. Last year NE gave up the 89th pick to Carolina for the 33rd pick in 2011; the Panthers took Armani Edwards, NE took Ras-I Dowling.
     
  20. Tunaphish429

    Tunaphish429 1st Ballot Hall of Famer Donator

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    How long you been waiting to squeeze this word in a convo?
     
  21. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    regarding the draft this year, I give NE a C; mainly because they traded away the 28th pick and passed on Cam Heyward. I liked the Solder pick and loved the Dowling pick and I was a Vereen fan so I had no problem taking a RB. Getting Marcus Cannon that late was impressive, and I liked the Markell Carter selection. BB said that they are expecting young players, especially those from last year, to continue to progress. I have no problem with a coach having faith in his players and I trust the team in its ability to develop talent, but I would have continued to add more to the front 7.

    I was surprised the Jets didn't take a rush LB or even Rahim Moore; I like Wilkerson but the Jets dline is already talented.

    For Miami I liked the Pouncey pick but the rest of their draft just didn't do much for me. Gates has the athleticism, but the WR class outside of Green and Jones doesn't impress me, and I felt there were better backs than Thomas. Miami could have gone with Demarco Murray, Vereen or even Taiwan Jones; at the very least he would have improved their return game.
     
  22. Tunaphish429

    Tunaphish429 1st Ballot Hall of Famer Donator

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    Did we need another Cb?

    We have the most depth there at this time.
     
  23. mmikel30

    mmikel30 Starter

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    I liked the Bucs draft a lot just like last year.
     
  24. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    I thought winning the Superbowl is what mattered and a team like NE that has one of the best QB's in football has a shot at winning the Superbowl every year. Why aren't they? Could it be their defense is weak and continues to fail them especially with no pass rush what so ever. So as far as I'm concerned they have a failed strategy! The fact that they have not won a Superbowl since their defense began to age and slide in terms of talent you would think it would be a priority to fix the defense. They have been able to reverse the age of their defense but not with great talent only "valued talent". They continue to pass on players like C.Mathews for "value" draft picks and continue to lose in the first round of the playoffs because of it, but they were 14-2 so it's okay.

    NE is no different then Indy right now, built to win in the regular season but designed to lose in the playoffs. When NE fianlly realizes this T.Brady will be in a rocking chair and instead of telling stories about his 5 or 6 Superbowl wins I'm sure he'll be talking about all those great 14-2 seasons!

    I love the NE love that flies around here, if that was our team people would demand a change and rip the CS something fierce for failing in the playoffs every year. But keep trading those picks for that great value so 2012, 2013, 2014 will all be the same... 1st round knock outs! But atleast they were 14-2, lol.
     
  25. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    New England started rebuidling its defense following the 2008 season. The 2009 team had serious flaws on both sides of the ball; namely a lack of quality leadership. The picks from the 2009 and 2010 drafts have begun to show their worth, and several players from those draft classes were a big reason why the team was able to win 14 games last year; when many analysts expected the team to finish 2nd or 3rd in the division.

    As far as passing on Clay Matthews; 25 other teams did the same thing, including Scott Pioli's Chiefs, who in 2008 had a historically awful pass rush. The entire team combined for something like 10 sacks. So why did the draft genius Pioli, the man everyone says New England has missed the past few years, reach for Tyson Jackson instead of draft Clay? Everyone seems to forget that out of the 3 USC linebackers that year he was considered the least NFL ready, and there were tons of questions surrounding his game (only started his senior year; was he the product of great players around him, etc). If teams knew what he would become he would have been a top 3 pick
     
  26. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    The Patriots had the youngest defense in the NFL last year; were people expecting them to dominate on that side of the ball or something? The team lost it's starting CB and DE before the season began, the dline was plagued with injuries all season and the team started at least 3 rookies at 3 critical spots all year long-------and they allowed 19.6 PPG. For all the crap the pass-rush took last year (and it was still a weak spot, just not 2009 bad), it actually improved from the year before, both in terms of sacks and overall pressures and disruptions, and that was with an injured and inexperienced unit. Between everyone being more experienced (assuming this lockout junk gets resolved) and coming back healthy I don't see any reason why the defense won't continue to gel and improve in 2011. If players like Spikes, Cunningham and Brace don't continue to improve then obviously not drafting for a front 7 player this past year was a mistake, but I trust the team's ability to develop talent.
     
  27. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    25 other teams didn't desparetely need pass rush help and Clay was ranked to go anywhere from the late teens up, he was a player I hoped we'd grab but when Vontae fell he made the most sense to pick. NE selecting him at 23 was a match made in heaven and I for one am glad they didn't do it.

    Your comparing the 3rd pick in which a DE was selected to the 23rd pick where a pass rushing OLB was available to a team that has needed pass rush help for the last few years. KC was rebuilding the trenches at that time, I really don't understand what that has to do with the original conversation?

    This is about NE being loaded with talent, having a great QB that has your team Superbowl ready (already proven winner) and the only real position holding them back is their lack of pass rush. The QB allows you the luxury of double digit wins year in and year out but the weakness in your defense forces you out in the 1st round of the playoffs each year. Then to top that off the great BB trades R.Seymour for again great value but now his limited pass rush just became garbage trading away his only threat from the DL.

    So why continue to pass on your need all the time just to trade back for "value", where's the sense in that? I feel their wasting the opportunity to win more Superbowls with Tom Brady for the sake of proving the great value BB can get out of his drafts. That idea makes more sense to a re-building team not a team with a couple holes to fill in which they once again failed to do after this draft.

    Then add that many argue NE has a lot of draft misses because their so loaded in talent because it's hard to make their talented roster yet continues to pass on "elite" talent for draft value. That makes little sense to me, it would make more sense to trade up or stay where you are and take the best talent available.
     
  28. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    KC had one of the worst pass rushing defenses of all time; you don't reach for a 5 technique with the 3rd overall pick unless he's the next Richard Seymour or Aaron Smith.

    How many times has NE "passed on elite talent?" Last year they supposedly did that by not taking Kindle or Dez Bryant, yet they struck gold with their picks. In 2009 they got blasted for "reaching" for Sebastian Vollmer instead of taking Michael Oher, in 2008 everyone wondered why they passed on "elite prospects" like Leodis McKelvin and Keith Rivers for Jerod Mayo.

    The one year New England made consensus picks and took what seemed like top end talent was in 2006. Maroney was drafted where he was expected to go and everyone praised the team for trading up to draft Chad Jackson, who was ranked ahead of Greg Jennings.

    If you want to argue that they didn't draft well for a stretch, that's fine, but ever since Scott Pioli left and Floyd Reese arrived the team's drafts have been very strong, and I don't see why they won't continue.
     
  29. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the pass rush, how many stud pass rushers have been drafted that New England had a chance to get? By my count, only Lamarr Woodley and Clay Matthews stand out. People always go back to the 2007 draft and compalin about not picking Woodley, but they forget that OLB was a position of strenght at the time given that Vrabel was still in his prime and they just signed Afailius. Passing on Matthews looks bad, but the team still got quality players from that draft and as I mentioned already, there was no guarantee Matthews would turn out the way he did.
     
  30. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    2008 draft - J.Mayo was a great pick, 2nd rounder T.Wheatly isn't even on the roster. 3rd rounders S.Crable and K.O'Conell are both not even on the roster. 4th rounder CB J.Whilhite is a limited role player.

    2009 draft - P.Chung has been a nice pick for them, 2nd rounders R.Brace and D.Butler are big time dissapointments. 3rd rounders B.Tate and T.McKenzie haven't played half as well as they hoped and McKenzie is no longer on the roster. 4th rounder G R.Ohrnberg doesn't ever play.

    2010 draft - this is too early to really judge but let's do it anyways - D.McCourty has looked good, 2nd rounders R.Gronkowski looks real good while J.Cunningham hasn't done anything and B.Spikes starts but I really don't think he's any good, 3rd rounder T.Price has done nothing, 4th rounder A.Hernadez looks real good

    So obviousily I look at 2010 as a pretty darn good draft so far but 2008 and 2009 are flops overall. In 2008 they selected J.Mayo at #10 which backs up my arguement about selecting the best talent instead of trading back. out of the next 4 picks in 2-4 they got 1 limited role player and the 3 others aren't even on the roster! In 2009 P.Chung is a real good pick but C.Mathews was a bigger need for a 34 defense and turned out to be a great player in this league. Then out of the 5 picks they had in rounds 2-4 none of them see the field much and add very little if any help to the team.

    I look at this as pretty bad drafting for a team that is suppose to be a great drafting team. Certainly only my opinion but selecting a QB in the 6th round that turns out to be a future HOF'er covers up a lot of bad drafting!
     
  31. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    My point is it was a need but they continue to over look it just like the Dolphins passing on a real QB over the last few years and yet they get ripped for it and NE gets a pass. But we didn't select a 6th round HOF QB, so I guess that's all it takes!

    My arguement is when it became a position of need not before, that kind of makes little sense!
     
  32. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    Anyways bigvince75 your changing the direction the conversation was in. NE gets praised for trading back for value when there are excellent players available to fill the few holes they have to really give their team a greater chance to win more Superbowls while Brady is still in his prime. If anything I think a team in NE's situation should be trying to move up and get premium talent to help them out.

    I would love to be the division winner year in and year out but I'd be pretty ticked off if we failed to attempt to fill the few holes preventing us from winning at Home in the first round of the playoffs the last few years! I don't see why this year would really be any different, teams like Baltimore, Pittsburgh and the Jets will gladly play NE in the 1st round knowing NE's defense can't make plays when it really counts which is the complete opposite to when they were winning Superbowls!
     
  33. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    NE lost in the first round for a variety of reasons. The 09 Baltimore loss was just a complete team collapse where all of the team's flaws that year came to a head. No player played well in that loss. Against the Jets the the offense and defense both had too many breakdowns. The defense actually did a good job against the Jets in the first half but then rookie mistakes started piling up; namely on the Cotchery catch and run where both Spikes and McCourty took bad angles. The offense scored 3 points through nearly 3 quarters, and I felt the oline and Brady's struggles were the biggest reason they lost. That and the Jets happen to be a very good team; it's not like NE lost to the 7-9 Seahawks.

    as far as neglecting need; New England drafted an outside LB in Cunningham last year. His stats didn't show it, but he actually did make plenty of contributions to the defense the past year. TBC, Mike Wright and Gerrard Warren can thank him for several of their sacks, since he was able to put pressure on QBs and force them out of the pocket. He also did a nice job against the run and got pressure on the QB at critical points, like at the end of the Colts game. He would have had at least 1 sack against the Jets in the MNF game but Sanchez got away with a facemask. He didn't make the type of impact a 2nd round pick should, but he was able to make the transition from DE to OLB despite missing part of TC and all of preseason with an injury and missing the last few games as well. He needs to take the next step in 2011 and the team is very high on him.

    as it stands right now there are 3 players on the front 7 who need to improve: Cunningham, Spikes and Brace. I hated the Brace pick when it was made and he was a non-factor his rookie year, but when he was healthy in 2010 and started he actually did a nice job against the run. Spikes is a good 2 down LB right now but he needs to improve his coverage and stay off chatroulette. Cunningham needs to stay healthy and continue to improve, and if these players continue to develop, not only will the team's past 2 drafts look even better, but the defense will improve significantly. The reason the team didn't add to the front 7 this past draft was because of all the young players and BB's belief that they can continue to reach their potential.
     
  34. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    And I guarantee Pittsburgh wouldn't want anything to do with NE in the playoffs.
     
  35. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    Drafting 2 OLB's (1 in the 3rd and 1 in the 2nd the next year) out of whats seems like 35 picks in 3 years doesn't really seem like trying to fill a need. We have Wake and rookie K.Misi but some of us fans know we still need more pass rush help. Pittsburgh drafts OLB's and DE's all the time to develope long term but they do it with studs in place already. So I don't hold too much water on BB counting on these young guys to develope when he still needs more players that can contribute in that position.

    The variety of reasons can be summed up in big plays on the defense, it is the biggest difference between when you won championships and now that you haven't. The defense has not been able to do it when it matters in the playoffs especially when the offense struggles. Brady/Manning/Brees and soon to be added M.Ryan all have the talent and "good enough" defenses to get their teams to the playoffs on a regular basis but none of them have a defense to get them another championship, IMHO. Now GB has an offense equal to all of them and a defense that's built to win multiple championships and the scary thought is they won their first with more injuries then almost every team in the NFL!

    Even this past draft I can't believe you guys again passed on Prince. You have been drafting multiple CB's for the last few years missing badly until McCourty. Then you get Prince falling in your laps and pass, I will be shocked if you don't regret passing on Prince in a couple years.

    But I guess if your happy waiting for the defense to hopefully develope then you better pray it happens sooner then later. Brady isn't getting younger and every year that pases waiting is a wasted year. The Jets have already made themselves contenders and IF we ever find a QB NE won't be having their way in the regular season anymore either. Luckily for you the Dolphins have the same attitude about QB as you guys do with pass rushers, lol!!!
     
  36. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    The Jets don't have an elite pass-rusher on their roster, yet they're a contender with an elite defense. Pass-rush is only part of a great defense; you need everyone in each unit to be on the same page in order to be truly effective. That's how the Jets are so effective and that's why NE was able to win with its defense during the SB years. Neither team has or had "that guy" to get after the QB. Letting young players develop and gel as a unit goes a long way, and given how well the defense improved over the course of the 2nd half of the season, in spite of mounting injuries nonetheless, I don't have a problem with that approach. The Patriots defense isn't about having one single player be the premier pass-rusher, its about everyone playing disciplined and being in the right place.

    you mention the Steelers and praise them for drafting OLBs, but they keep doing the same thing you say NE is doing and that's ignoring a need. They've had a weakness at the CB and oline/OT position for years now and every year with the exception of Pouncey they've ignored it in favor of a dlineman or OLB. Just this past year they could have taken Aaron Williams or Ras-I Dowling but took a 3-4 DE when they already have Keisel and Hood. The way Patriots fans feel about the OLB position is the same way Steelers fans feel about their team's CB position.

    Look at what happened in the SB, Pitt had arguably the league's best pass-rushing duo and a top run defense and they got lit up because their secondary fell apart and couldn't stop anyone. It's not like having some beastly pass rusher will automatically make a defense elite or completely cover up a secondary's weakness, you still need to have talent at other positions. Look at Detroit for another example.

    As far as drafting CB's and not taking Prince, last year everyone was shocked that NE passed on Kyle Wilson in favor of Devin McCourty, a guy who everyone thought would be a "Special Teams" player.
     
  37. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    NE was tied for 14th best in the league with 36 sacks. This was with Ty Warren being out all season, Mike Wright (the team's leading sacker) being out for a good 7 weeks, a rookie OLB starting (who missed several games and battled injuries all year) and 2 guys playing in the 3-4 for the first time in their careers. Obviously it needs to improve, and if the players don't develop then it was a mistake to not continue to add to the front 7. However, given all the negative factors that went into play NE still finished in the middle of the road in sacks and was the 7th best scoring defense all year. There's plentty of reason for optimism.
     
  38. bigvince75

    bigvince75 Well-Known Member

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    The point I'm trying to make is that the team feels it has the talent on the roster to build a successful defense. There's plenty of young talent on that end, whether or not they can put it all together is the question.
     
  39. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    New England might be smarter then anyone gives them credit for, many people are quick to point out that every year given the abundance of draft picks that New England seems to amass they always push them out to the next year, but I think they have a plan and are playing their pieces as masterfully as a Grandmaster in a chess tournament.

    Tom Brady isn't getting any younger and given that NFL Franchise QB is the hardest and most important position to fill for a franchise to have a decade of success they are positioning themselves to make that transition nicely. With a project QB already in the fold in Mallett they might have the answer or a nice trading piece in a puzzle that realistically in the next year or two could involve a huge trade up to land a number 1 QB prospect to replace Brady long term.

    I think Bill pushes the 2 first rounders out to the 2013 draft which puts Brady at 35 and arguably replaceable in the 2014 or 2015 season. Bill makes a trade to position New England so they can take a top prospect QB in 2013 who then has one or two years before they move on from Tom. It's like the Brett/Aaron deal all over again if the cards play out right.

    Think about it.
     
  40. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    The NYJ are a pretty damn good run stuffing team and they have the top CB in football. Their LB's get pressure from their blitz packages. They also run the snot out of the ball and have a decent passing game to boot, in other words their built to win in the playoffs - which they have done the last 2 years while their young QB is getting more expereince.

    Pittsburgh won the Superbowl with their lack of Oline! So that kind of gets them off the hook don't you think, you haven't won the Superbowl ever since your defense became old and now their weaknesses get exposed in the 1st round of the playoffs! And Pittsburgh took a Centre in the 1st round in the 2010 draft and I think that helped them out so they have made an effort to fix that Oline.

    CB's for Pittsburgh don't play the role they would on say the NYJ's because they get so much pressure from Woodley and Harrison alone. Not that they couldn't use an upgrade, their defense is built around stopping the run, pass rushers and Troy's ability to roam the centre of the field.

    Your defense doesn't get masked by having an elite pass rusher, your problem on defense is the lack of pass rushing and the fact you can't stop anyone in the run game - in the playoffs!!! I don't care about regular season stats, their more then mis-leading but losing in the 1st round isn't. Pitts had Pouncy out and Troy playing at 50%, if you don't think that had a lot to do with the outcome then I need to stop this conversation. Then take in account GB has a great offense and a great defense with a great pass rush -hmmmm exactly what I'm talking about. And the pass rush was huge when their top CB gets hurt and doesn't play the entire 2nd half...remember.

    Detriots getting there but they still have many many holes to fill and they do not have T.Brady and your offense.

    I'm also talking about your team, the one with a future HOF at QB that won 3 Superbowls when your defense was excellent at making plays all over the place and in key situations. Your offense doesn't need a lot of help your defensive weaknesses that have plagued your team in the 1st round needs to addressed in order to win more Superbowls, again IMHO. If these Cunningham makes a big jump this year where does his help come from?
     
  41. Pat-London

    Pat-London A True Fan

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    Hahahaha... love it!

    EDIT: ooops... messed that quote up... Originally quoted by CK.
     

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