Big money on WR not the answer

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by kmev827!, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. kmev827!

    kmev827! Rookie

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    Greg Jennings was a second round pick, mike wallace third round, Bowe late first round and another guy doing a lot of damage, Torrey Smith, was a second round pick. The point is, impact receivers can be found through the draft, and it doesen't have to be a top pick.

    We have several picks in the first three rounds. If Philbin and Ireland have any eye for talent, then there should be one or two impact receivers that we can draft. We need to build through the draft and spend our money wisely on positions where talent is more difficult to come by like defensive back and o-line. I say draft a cb or linemen round 1 and bring in two speed wr in rounds 2 and 3. Use the money to bring back Starks and Long (if reasonable price) and extend Jones. Just because we have cap space doesen't mean we need to use it on bad investments.
     
  2. Despacio

    Despacio Pro Bowler

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    And risk another limited slow offseason like this year? We won't live forever. Lets get a move on.
     
  3. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    Free agency is there to fulfill the need of right now. The draft is all about finding longevity.

    It's not about signing a "big money receiver." That's like not going out and having a good time because it costs money.

    Price tags do have to be looked at to a certain extent, but we can't shy away from signing a great player just because it's deemed "big money."

    You sign a free agent receiver that can make an impact. Then you explore the draft to see what kind of talent you can accumulate. One is not better than the other. Both must be used in synonymy in order to get the most out of acquisitions.

    Signing free agents + drafting young talent = bang for your buck now and in the future.
     
  4. zach attach

    zach attach A True Fan Donator

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    Drafting is guesswork. An established stud WR will cost some bucks, but that's because there is no guesswork. You know that player can play in the NFL and be successful. And if you have the choice, like we do, you can find the right one to fit our scheme.
     
  5. Ferretsquig

    Ferretsquig Perennial All-Pro

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    NFL free agency has just as many colossal missteps. Way back to those established stud WRs like Andre Dison and Alvin Harper. The last decade of Dolphin's history is littered with free agent failures. Tony Martin, McKnight, Carter, Ward, Wilford.
     
  6. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Most of these guys never were really good players . Alvin harper signed a big contract but was never a top receiver. He had some gaudy averages because he was fast as hell but he never caught over 36 passes prior to the Bucs giving him big cash. Most of the time if u sign a free agent that has established himself and is not coming off of injury he will do decent. As for Martin he was not a bust and did not cost that much he had a great year Marino's last year and the next he had Jay Fielder as his qb and was injured. wilford was never that good was a good minimum salary guy but we paid him like a starter
     
  7. nate

    nate Scout Team

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    you forgot david boston
     
  8. Tinaphps

    Tinaphps Active Member

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    You just saved me the trouble of reposting.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter Finheaven VIP

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    I think Greg Jennings could have a similar impact on our passing game to what Irving Fryar had when he came here...and that was very positive.

    The right answer isn't just to sign a free agent WR, it's to sign a free agent WR and draft another WR in the 2nd round.
     
  10. Noodleman

    Noodleman Starter

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    Sorry but this year fa wideouts are far and away better than any of these guys. There is no comparison beyond position. Bowe and Wallace are not only proven but both are young(26 and 28) and Jennings fits because of his familiarity with Philbin. Nobody can predict the future so anytime you sign a fa you take some risk.... but the 3 receivers available this year are worth the risk, imo. The signing of one of them would allow us to focus on upgrading the dbs or some other position of need in the draft. Lets hope Ireland is not a complete moron and actually spends on one of these guys.
     
  11. Dolfan4life!

    Dolfan4life! A True Fan

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    True, Boston was a monumental bust, but we traded for him, he wan't a Free Agent.
     
  12. Phantom

    Phantom Phantom Donator

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    Drafting is a great idea if you have a gm with a clue, which we don't. In 5 years he has given us Harline. The scary part is he is worse in free agency, where he has given us nothing. Our second best reciever is Bess, who was undrafted. Hopefully Philibin has a clue, and pushes for real talent. I hope he isn't another, in a long line of coaches, who think they can turn trash into treasure because he is smarter than everyone. We need a couple of proven nfl caliber playmakers, on both sides of the ball now.
     
  13. phinfanNY08

    phinfanNY08 Starter

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    As much money as Miami will have, getting playmakers that will force defenses to prepare and not stack the box with 8-9 guys because our WR/TE doesn't scare opposing coordinators. Getting a guy like Wallace, Bowe or Jennings will force defenses to prepare and always have an eye on those guys. This will help open up the run more and Miami can be more effective with the play action passing and get more than 12 passing TDs in a season. Its simple logic.. guys that can make plays will benefit an offense. Please see all playoff teams to see what Miami is sorely lacking. Bring as many talented play makers on board and let the chips fall where they may
     
  14. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Lol and it was a shocker when he was caught doing roids hahaaaa.
     
  15. Ghetti17

    Ghetti17 Active Member

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    I would disagree. In Jennings they get a guy who knows the system, who plays the right way, and who is still an explosive player. He is worth paying well if for no other reason than what he will pass down to the young guys they use some of these five picks on. Jennings will be a Dolphins and it is the smart play.
     
  16. dol-phan007

    dol-phan007 Money is Power

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    Yeah lets not sign a good WR in FA and lets draft WR's since we have drated so great in the past. You can see my sarcasm but I'm serious. How many WR's have we drafted the last 5 years? How many are some of the best in the league? It is easy to say not to go get a guy in FA because we could get a gem in the 3rd round but chances are slim. If we do what you are saying to do we could draft guys that do not get on the field and we are in the same situation as we were this year. Everyone would be screaming for Irelands and Philbins head because we did not go after a FA WR.
     
  17. FINFAN15

    FINFAN15 Starter

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    Most drafted Wideouts except for a few studs take 2 to 3 years to develop like Dez Bryant and Torrey Smith to name a few We need and established wideout as well as a potential stud in the draft
     
  18. iambanned

    iambanned Banned Hammered

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    Jeff Ireland makes mistakes and wastes money like he thinks Obama's gonna bail him out. Passing on Hilton and drafting Egnew should be enough to ****can his *** alone. Hilton would be our #1 WR right now and we wouldn't even be fretting this discussion right now. Instead we have a TE that will probably never playing the NFL again, and who many people feel had no business being drafted. Is there a worse talent evaluation person in all of sports than Jeff Ireland? Just look at how bad he's been with defensive backs. Jason Allen, anyone? (Also, it's still total BS that Miami didn't get Aquib Talib when he was just 'out there' to be had.

    Sports fan hell is knowing that your team will screw it up.
     
  19. foozool13

    foozool13 #12 #13 #23 #29 #54 #99 Donator

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    Greg Jennings in FA all day and draft a WR also.
     
  20. Ghetti17

    Ghetti17 Active Member

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    Jeff Ireland didn't draft Jason Allen. Nick Saban did.
     
  21. allsilverdreams

    allsilverdreams Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

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    wont this meen we would have to draft 3 wr because Hartline will be a big $$$$ wr
     
  22. jcfishfan

    jcfishfan Member

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    We need to sign a wr and then draft one and develop him. We need DB help to stop people. You can have all the weapon you want on offensive but if you cant stop people it doesnt matter.
     
  23. Gsmack_42

    Gsmack_42 Well-Known Member

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    And the year before Jeff took a part time RB over Rogers, wait that was Nick the ****.
     
  24. Imperium

    Imperium FinHeaven VIP

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    Building thru the draft is ideal but we need more proven playmakers. lm also not sure I trust Ireland's ability to judge offensive talent. What worries me is that there are no gurantees that Wallace, Bowe o& Jennings will all be available.
     
  25. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    Hartline is a solid NFL receiver. You are uninformed if u think otherwise. He was also a 4th rd pick and has been a pleasant surprise. Bess was an undrafted FA.
    Both players were good finds.
     
  26. kmev827!

    kmev827! Rookie

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    Hartline won't be big money. If he is, let him go and put Mathews in there. There's no way we should not be able to find a few solid receivers. Every other team seems to be able to.
     
  27. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    well we had a pro bowl receiver we traded for Bustnew and some magic beans

    ---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 AM ----------

    Cant disagree there. They should not be your top receivers but they belong on an nfl team unlike the drool we had playing behind them.
     
  28. jfleag61

    jfleag61 A True Fan

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    CAN be.....that is the key. WILL be, after being paid, is the danger. Some of these guys play their arses off to get the big payday, then they figure that is what they worked for in the past. There is a reason why guys have MUCH better production in a contract year.
     
  29. Phantom

    Phantom Phantom Donator

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    Where did i say anything bad about Hartline or Bess, all i said was, that is all he has bought us in 5 years, and that isn't near good enough.
     
  30. Twitches Brew

    Twitches Brew A True Fan

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    It's very hard to draft a WR who makes an impact in season 1. Like someone said earlier, Torrey Smith, Dez, Hakeem Nicks, Demaryius Thomas, etc. were not forces right away. AJ Green (and Julio) is an exception (and was waay more talented than anyone in this draft).

    If you want Tanny to have a legit #1 target next season, he will probably have to come from free agency.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I actually agree with all this talk about big money wide receivers. And I think there's a possibility that Mike Wallace and Dwayne Bowe became examples 1a and 1b of the danger involved in signing a free agent wide receiver to a big money deal.

    But I see Greg Jennings as an EXCEPTION, for a couple of reasons:

    1. He's being unfairly discounted for injuries which are not long term damaging
    2. He's 29 years old but people are discounting him as if he's 33 years old
    3. He knows the system and "grew up" in Joe Philbin's offense, this is a factor not to be understated
    4. Brian Hartline is a free agent, putting Miami in position of needing to sign a free agent, even if just to re-sign Hartline
    5. There's a strong chance the amount you pay a Greg Jennings is only marginally (~2 mil/yr) more than Hartline

    Given all those things, yes I do consider a Hartline-for-Jennings swap to be a worthwhile upgrade. If Brian Hartline is demanding $6 million a year and you are seriously considering paying it, why in holy hell would people not consider paying Greg Jennings $8 million a year instead?

    But then, maybe you shouldn't be considering EITHER. Maybe the Dolphins should say goodbye to both Hartline at $6 million a year, and Jennings at $8 million a year. That at least makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than paying Hartline $6 million a year where Jennings may be able to be had for $8 million.
     
  32. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    If we are considering paying Hartline 6 million a year we are not very bright. I like Jennings but at 8 mill a year it seems a risky bet esp considering he had actually one very good game this year. I would be fine with whatever they pay him as long as they dont go over 3 years. Still dont see why we decided not to pursue Wayne who will cost less and could have added a Jennings without breaking the bank this year.
     
  33. Ferretsquig

    Ferretsquig Perennial All-Pro

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    Blackmon, Wright, Gordon, Hilton, Floyd, Givens..... Actually I think this year's draft had about a 50% hit rate when it came to impactful rookie wideouts in the first few rounds.
     
  34. The Omen

    The Omen Well-Known Member

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    How may recievers were taken last year? You named 6 guys... I know Hilton was the 16th WR taken... Not even close to 50% hit rate. Although I do see where you are going with this... WR isn't anymore special than other positions in the draft as far as success. Russell Wilson was what the 5th or 6th QB taken?
     
  35. Ferretsquig

    Ferretsquig Perennial All-Pro

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    13th by my count......not that it really matters. The point was that you can find players that will make an immediate impact in the draft, with a success rate not too far off from free agent signings. Around this time next year you'll be able to look back at the free agent wide receivers that switched teams and more than half will be complete failures in their new environment.
     
  36. LDaniel7

    LDaniel7 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Excellent analysis and philosophy.

    Why anyone would pay for a possession WR like Hartine who adds next to nothing in downfield threat and has to get open most times by running back toward the LOS [zero pressure on D re: catch and run] - a WR that creates exponential angles for DBs to make plays -- NEVER destroys D angles and allows the field to be crunched.... AND is so limited in talent that of all his weaknesses, he is WORST in the redzone -- criminy! If Jennings can be had for 2 mill more than he is asking, then show Hartline the door and sign Jennings in a flash.

    Even if Jennings gets hurt or otherwise under-performs, at least you got rid of a MEDIOCRE WR who held back the position from being used as something to attack Ds with.

    LD
     
  37. tylerdolphin

    tylerdolphin More Smug than Birthday Dog Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I dont know the details of our cap situation, but could we not sign both Hartline and Jennings and still have a decent amount of money leftover?
     

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