Bill Polian on the MVP

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by FORMER FIN1, Dec 31, 2008.

  1. FORMER FIN1

    FORMER FIN1 Starter

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    I was listening to the local talking head in Indy today. He was interviewing Bill Polian whom I consider one of the greatest talent evaluators in all of football. He was asked who the MVP should be. He mentioned Peyton obviously, but said that it should be him or chad pennington. He listed Haynesworth, Peterson, and the dude from Pittsburgh (forgot his name). Only negative he had with chad was our last place schedule. Good praise from a smart football man.
     
  2. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    Voice of a pro with no axe to grind.
     
  3. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj Banned Hammered

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    we would be 4-12 without Chad(at best)

    those who don't think Chad is the MVP are either ignorant or have an agenda

    I hear all this hype about Peyton Manning, what a pile of *&%$^%. Don't really want to hear about Indy's problems, they have talent out the wazoo.

    put Peyton on a team built by ten *&%^^%$^^ years of Wanny and Saban and see how he performs

    Chad had jack squat to work with, he embodies what the MVP is all about.
     
  4. FORMER FIN1

    FORMER FIN1 Starter

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    It's agood argument both ways, we had an easy schedule and Manning was phenominal this year. I personally think it was his best year. He actually had two operations, the second being a 6 hour operation to remove mrsa fromhis knee. My wife had this and trust me it is a mfer of a virus. No way to truly eliminate it but Manning kept it secret so hecould start the season. I love Penny but this dude truly has some stones. Second to this guy is nothing to hang your head about.
     
  5. Troyd92

    Troyd92 Rookie

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    I like Chad just as much as anyone, but take off the aqua colored glasses Peyton Manning is the best quarterback in the league and a first ballot Hall of Famer, you know Peyton's colts went from 3-13 to 13-3 right? He sure didn't have a team as good as the Colts the last few years. Im not saying anything about Chad, but if you gave me the choice between Chad and Peyton I would take Peyton without a doubt.
     
  6. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj Banned Hammered

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    I was talking about MVP not the best QB award

    put on your "understanding english" glasses
     
  7. Troyd92

    Troyd92 Rookie

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    I was referring to your comment on how if you put Peyton, on a team that was built by pornstache and Saban....I agree about the MVP...
     
  8. Ricky_Fan34

    Ricky_Fan34 Suns and Fins superfan

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    Chad Pennington is truly what MVP is all about... The leader of the team who makes the difference. Peyton Manning is absolutely one of the greatest to ever play the game. That said, Pennington means more to Miami the Manning does to Indy. Statistically, Manning will beat Chad any day. If you put Chad on the Colts though, and Manning on the Dolphins, You would see a decline in Manning's stats and a rise in Pennington's.
     
  9. BE GOOD

    BE GOOD Pick and choose Wayne...

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    Well certainly if you look at stats alone Chad is obviously not the MVP. But the MVP is more than that. He was the most valuable player in terms of being the most important player in the league to contribute to his teams success.
     
  10. aquaman54

    aquaman54 Starter

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    Knowing that Penny is ours,just makes it easier for me to think of the MVP......as just another piece of paper.We all know what he did,and what he means to our beloved aqua/orange.No matter the outcome on Sunday,I am at peace with our boys and organization.
     
  11. Joker2thief

    Joker2thief Until the Ragnarök

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    Chad MVP of league
    Dan Henning MVPerson of team
     
  12. feelthepain

    feelthepain Banned Hammered

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    Hey Bill,

    SD) 8-8
    JAX) 5-11 X 2
    HOU) 8-8 X 2
    GB) 6-10
    CIN) 4-11
    DET) 0-16

    Peyton didn't exactly have the toughest schedule in the world to play either and he wasn't switching systems and teams in the middle of his career. But you keep being a homer.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2009
  13. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    It's not the MVP for the last 10 years it's for the year 2008 and nobody is a bigger MVP to their team then C.Pennington. Yes Peyton had an excellent year as did Harrison in Pitts/ Haynesworth/ and I'd throw M.Forte in the conversation by carrying Chicago all year as a rookie (now I mean that as an honourable mention of course).

    Again it's the this past season not their careers!!!
     
  14. Breed

    Breed Pro Bowler

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    We should've been a 4 win team last year, but had one of the worst headcoaches the NFL has ever seen. Since then we've added a franchise LT (top 5), and a much improved DL. Would we be a good team without Pennington? Probably not, but with average QB play, we would be at least a 6 win team.

    I wonder how many people outside of Finheaven are saying that?

    He has earned every bit of that hype. As great as Pennington has been this year (97.4 Passer Rating), Peyton Manning has the exact same Passer Rating (97.4) over the last decade and has been one of the hardest quarterbacks to sack in the history of the NFL.

    If Pennington can be credited for Ginn's increase in production, couldn't the same be said for Manning and his receivers?

    Here's a good article about Manning's effect on his receivers, particularly Harrison.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=938

    I don't think it's a coincidence that Brandon Stokley had what was his best year (by far) in that Colts offense. Up to the point when the Colts signed Brandon Stokley, he had never had more than 357 receiving yards and 2 touchdowns. In his first healthy season with the Colts, Stokley had 1,077 receiving yards and 10 receiving touchdowns. Since leaving that Colts offense, Stokley has had 2 solid seasons, totaling 1,163 receiving yards and 8 receiving touchdowns (28 games). Another interesting fact regarding Stokley, outside of his 2004 season, he's never had more than 5 receiving touchdowns in a season.

    Seasonal averages (Stokley)
    Baltimore: 442.67 receiving yards and 3.39 receiving touchdowns
    Indianapolis: 747.71 receiving yards and 5.85 receiving touchdowns
    Denver: 664.57 receiving yards and 4.57 receiving touchdowns

    Amazing what a QB can do, and I'm not just talking about Manning. Stokley also put up much better numbers in Denver than he did in Baltimore, in large part because Cutler is much better than the quarterbacks he had throwing to him in Baltimore.

    http://www.nfl.com/players/brandonstokley/profile?id=STO309337


    The Colts had what was probably the worst running game in the NFL this year, and have a very poor run defense. The Colts have also been hit hard by the injury bug, losing both starting cornerbacks and Ryan Lilja for the year. Bob Sanders, Jeff Saturday, and Ryan Diem all missed games.

    Are you really suggesting that if Manning were in Pennington's place this year, that Pennington would've been better?

    He may not have had Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark to work with, but let's lot exaggerate. Pennington had a very good running game to work with (unlike Manning), some very solid tight ends and a solid group of young wide receivers.

    Manning is the Colts, he makes that entire team go around. Historically, the Colts have had a solid pass defense but a terrible run defense. When the Colts are putting up points, that forces their opponents to work against the Colts strength on defense (pass defense). If you're down by two scores, you're probably not going to run a whole lot, and it's usually harder to pass if the opposing team knows what's coming. This has been the Colts philosophy for years, get up on the scoreboard early and force the other team to pass. That's not a bad strategy when you have Peyton Manning on offense and Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis getting to the opposing QB on defense.
     
  15. blevins29

    blevins29 Rookie

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    Hows That?

    Chad's QB stats are better than anyone other than Rivers in 2008. Peyton has better totals based on throwing the ball 555 times to Chad's 476 but if you look at the stats on a per attempt basis Chad has more yards, higher completion %, a better QB rating, etc.
    Chad should be (but will not be) league MVP. The Colts record is no better than last year and while Peyton has played great most of the year the Colts have enough talent around him to win when he plays lousy (Browns). Manning is throwing to what many feel are the best or second best set of receivers (including WRs and TE) in the league.
    Chad took a 1-15 team and led them to 11-5 throwing to people considered draft mistakes and not drafted at all.
     
  16. Breed

    Breed Pro Bowler

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    If you're bringing up stats, Manning definitely has the edge. Let's assume for a minute that both quarterbacks have equivalent numbers based on rate, wouldn't the QB that passed it an additional 79 times have more value to his offense? Nevermind the fact that the more you pass, the harder it is to maintain a high passer rating. Manning was forced to pass more because the blocking was so poor up front, that their running backs could never get going. The Colts had what was probably the worst rushing attack in the NFL, the Dolphins had one of the top rushing attacks.

    I wouldn't count Pennington out just yet, he seems to be a trendy choice among a lot of writers. I would not be at all surprised if we see a co-op MVP award with Manning and Pennington both winning it.

    :lol:

    What difference does that make? Manning was on that team last year.

    With absolutely no running game. When teams face the Colts, they focus on stopping the passing game. The same can't be said about the Dolphins, because our running game is every bit as strong as our passing game, if not stronger.

    The Colts have a very good receiving core, but a big reason for their success is because of Peyton Manning.

    Do you honestly believe Pennington (a healthy Pennington) would've led the Dolphins to anything close to an 11-5 record last year with the exact same player/coach personnel?

    That 1-15 team lost 6 games by a field goal, a decent headcoach would've gotten us 4 wins. This year we've gone from having one of the worst headcoaches in the history of the NFL, to having a very good headcoach, while adding a franchise LT, beefing up our entire DL, getting Ronne Brown and Ricky Williams back healthy, added a solid young TE in Anthony Fasano and added a young Wes Welker clone in Davone Bess. We're not the same team as we were last year, not even close.

    Ginn may or may not have been a reach at #9, but based on his prospect status, he would've been a top 15 pick regardless. Ginn has huge upside, and he started to show that upside this year. Bess was undrafted, but he is as close to Wes Welker as I've seen in the NFL (will get a lot of receptions and have a low yards per catch). Bess will probably never lead the NFL in touchdowns or anything, but he will move the chains. Our tight ends were also very strong this year.
     

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