Brady Quinn product of system

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by islanddolphin, Dec 1, 2005.

  1. islanddolphin

    islanddolphin Scout Team

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    Did anyone hear O.J. McDuffie say this morning on his show that Quinn is just a product of the system and isnt that good. I have thought for a while that Quinn is the same player who didnt not look good in Ty's system the previous two years but is looking great now. I have a feeling Quinn will come into the NFL and wont get the job done. Just a feeling. He doesnt have the pure passing ability and great size of Leinart or the athletic ability and arm strength of some of the other quarterbacks. I know Brady doesnt either and he has played great but once again same system. So unless we plan on changing offensive coordinators and systems I think the Dolphins need to draft a quarterback that fits what they are doing now. Someone who is athletic, can roll out, with great touch on the deep ball.
     
  2. gottahavefootba

    gottahavefootba The Predator

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    Better get you fire suit on cause the flames are gonna come rolling in.. :fire:
     
  3. Fritz27

    Fritz27 Seasoned Veteran

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    I think it's part progression and part product of the system. He's been getting better every year, but I'm sure the Weis system has really helped him a ton.
     
  4. Oraclepz

    Oraclepz Seasoned Veteran

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    weis was an nfl OFF coordinator.. if he could succeed with his system.. i think he can make it in the NFL
     
  5. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    thats a good point
     
  6. DeathStar

    DeathStar Hall Of Famer

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    must be coming from a vince young fan.
     
  7. djfresh47

    djfresh47 R.I.P. djfresh47

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    Weis was also probably the best offensive mind in the NFL, so obviously he's gonna help. I think Quinn will be a pretty decent Qb, but I don't think he's half the Qb Leinart is. Alot of people are on the Quinn bandwagon because he plays at Notre Dame, he's good but because Notre Dame has a tv contract and is on almost every week playing against some pretty bad teams this year, he looks amazing. I'm not gonna knock ND's schedule because usually it is the toughest in the country, but it was pretty soft this year with no fault on him, but it inflated his stats and fans general perception of how good they are. If Young does not come out this year I think Quinn should because I don't believe alot of teams on Notre Dame's schedule will have a down year, and Young would be the top Qb next season if he stays in school, and other guys like Leak/Brohm/Jacobs may move up ahead of him. Quinn is a good Qb, but I think when I see people post that he is a better player than Leinart it's ridiculous.
     
  8. gottahavefootba

    gottahavefootba The Predator

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    Well if you are gonna compare him to Leinart it is very easy to say Leinart is just the product of a great team.
     
  9. Shouright

    Shouright A True Fan

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    This is another "both" thread instead of an "either-or" thread.

    Most likely, Quinn has a lot of talent AND is a product of the system.
     
  10. INPHINITY

    INPHINITY IRA 003/IRE

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    I've said this before, I love Quinn & Notre Dame... But i don't think he'll make it in the NFL, I just don't see the ability.
     
  11. INPHINITY

    INPHINITY IRA 003/IRE

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    Absolutley! put Lienart on Ball St. and you would never here his name. TEAM is everything.
     
  12. Cannonboy

    Cannonboy Premium Member

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    I think Quinn will be good, remember he is working with less than what Leinart has. Lets face it, ND doesn't have a Bush on the team like USC does. I also think USC's receivers are alot more talented then ND's
     
  13. islanddolphin

    islanddolphin Scout Team

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    I am not exactly a Vince Young fan and I not totally a Leinart fan either. But you cant say a quarterback is great because of the weapons around him. Remember when Simms was at Texas - he had great widereceivers, better than any Leinart had, and he had a really good running game, and supposedly all the talent in the world and never won the big game. No matter how much talent a quarterback has they still have to make the plays. Everyone is saying how Quinn has progressed this year but so has Young a lot in a system that isnt as passer friendly as Notre Dame's. Carson Palmer was also in the same system as Leinart with a lot of talent and he got the job done there and now is definitely playing great in the NFL. We sometimes get caught up in numbers and not pure natural ability. I think Quinn will be an alrite quarterback but not a franchise leader.
     
  14. Eric-Honduras

    Eric-Honduras Well-Known Member

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    Why Quinn will succeed.

    1. His coach won Super Bowls in NFL
    2. Quinn learned Weiss system just this year. (Some Qbs struggle)
    3. Has played big in ND games and their MVP.
    4. Has improved his play the past 3 years..


    I dont see why he couldnt succeed in the NFL.
     
  15. dolphan117

    dolphan117 Premium Member Finheaven VIP

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    If you are going to say that then I think you have to say Brady is just a product too.
     
  16. gottahavefootba

    gottahavefootba The Predator

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    I'd agree with that.
     
  17. shellgh0st

    shellgh0st D-Unit

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    I've posted about that. I have a real strong feeling Quinn is a product of the system. I just don't think he makes this great progress if Weis hadn't shown up to coach at ND. I can see Weis having similar success with other QBs, but I just dont think Quinn would have had similar success with other HCs.
     
  18. TheFallOfTroy54

    TheFallOfTroy54 Starter

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    all this talk makes me want cutler
     
  19. DolphinDevil28

    DolphinDevil28 I like boobs. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You can have your opinion on whether he is a product of the system or not, but you are wrong here.

    Brady Quinn is a rock solid 6'4" and 230 lbs. Very prototypical size. And he DOES have a strong arm.
     
  20. KB21

    KB21 A True Fan

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    So, he's a product of a pro style system? What part of that makes you believe that he won't do well in the NFL?

    The guy has the smarts. He's got the arm. He's finally a mechanically sound quarterback. He's got great footwork in the pocket.

    Brady Quinn isn't the product of a system. He's a product of good quarterback coaching, which is something that the large majority of colleges don't have.

    A quarterback being a product of a system is like the Texas Tech. quarterbacks, Tim Couch at Kentucky, the Florida QBs under Spurrier.....system quarterbacks are quarterbacks that are mechanically flawed because they have been taught to play in this particular system, and their skills simply don't translate to the next level.

    Brady Quinn's skills translate to the next level very well.
     
  21. Psychosikes

    Psychosikes Ninja

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    You guys talk as if guys stop developing the day they enter the nfl... Brady Quinn DOES have the size, the awareness, the competitiveness and the strong arm that would go well in almost any nfl system. Is he as polished as leinart? I don't think he's even close. But once he is (2 years down the road?) he'll have the intangibles leinart has (poise, confidence, touch... whatever) with the physical tools needed to succeed at an nfl level. I think it's his incredible potential that has so many people (including mueller, linehan and ME!!) high on him.
     
  22. Bowl_Bound

    Bowl_Bound A True Fan

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    Million dollar question... Does he come out and we will get a shoty at him? I think Saban is drooling over him!!!
     
  23. BlaznRoarn

    BlaznRoarn King of the Tannehill

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    So did ryan leaf....
     
  24. enigmatics

    enigmatics Go get me a juice box!

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    That's because Charlie Weiss is a QB's kind of coach. Ty Willingham's program stinks. I'm sorry, have you ever seen a quality QB come from his program? Give credit where credit is due, Brady Quinn has blossomed because of the attention Charlie Weiss has given to him, not just the system. That's such a broad statement - "It's the system" - and could be applied to any player in any facet of the game. Maybe this has eluded you for eons, but the NFL is comprised of certain players who fit certain systems so this argument over him being a product of a system is ridiculous. You aren't a Pats hater carrying your hatred on over to Weiss because he was their OC are you? Quinn's got all the physical attributes a coach could want and is extremely athletic. He makes good reads, gutsy, his passes are on the money, and he's obviously taken control of the huddle. For christs sake he's running a pro-style offense and is doing amazing in it - by that notion alone he's already at least a little bit ahead of the curve when it comes to other QB's heading into the NFL.

    Look, last year when I was watching ND people were already starting to talk about him and I didn't see it so I know where you're coming from. However, I decided to open my eyes a little and actually watch him.
     
  25. enigmatics

    enigmatics Go get me a juice box!

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    Ya, well so did Carson Palmer.........how's about that?

    I hate when people play that Ryan Leaf card - it has absolutely no relevance.
     
  26. enigmatics

    enigmatics Go get me a juice box!

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    As far as athletic ability Brady Quinn is leagues ahead of Leinart. Leinart's your prototypical pocket QB.
     
  27. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin PowerHungryMo'fo

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    Might be a just alittle much to say Brady is a system QB.

    His stats via ESPN, project Brady to have the same QB rating without Weiss.
    It's way too early to tell if he can continue to improve without Weiss's tutoring.

    Tom Brady
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2330


    As this relates to Quinn? Heck I don't know.
     
  28. enigmatics

    enigmatics Go get me a juice box!

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    Bingo bango bongo............. Weiss was the key. He was masterful with Tom Brady and now he's doing it with Brady Quinn. It's amazing to me that nobody can give the man credit for helping with Quinn's blossoming.
     
  29. Agent51

    Agent51 A True Fan

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    Exactly, I have said all along, take away Reggie Bush, LenDale White, Steve Smith, Dwayne Jarret, etc etc and see how many national titles he leads his team to, or how many Heisman trophies he wins, or how much hype he has. Was Joe Montana the best QB ever? No, but people argue he is. Why? because "he has more SB victories than Marino etc etc". Well, SB victories don't measure the QB, they measure the TEAM. What do you need to win a SB? A great TEAM. Could Joe have been THAT good without Jerry Rice and company? No, and Leinart wouldn't be without Bush and company. I see Leinart make many mistakes throwing, especially in critical situations. He would be eaten alive by defenses if they didn't have to respect the run with TWO future first-rounders back there. Whatever team he goes to is going to be a struggling team, just like every top QB in the draft. He isn't going be dropped into the USC of the NFL where he has a great supporting cast to make his job easier. He is going to go into a very poor team with tons of holes and problems and have to carry them on his back, he isn;t good enough to do that. "Great" college QB (in most people's eyes, I personally think he is a product of his team), bad NFL QB.
     
  30. Canadi-Phin

    Canadi-Phin I hate everyone else in the AFC East

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    As already has been said, every Qb is a product of the system. The key is how good your coaching is at the QB position. No position needs better coaching than QB. If Quinn is only a product of the system then what does that make Leinart? Last time I checked, USC voted Bush their MVP last year and will do the same this year. Walker hasn't broken any 81 yards runs lately. Leinart is playing with arguably the greatest college player of the last three decades.

    All that being said, Leinart, Young and Quinn are very similiar players. The are accurate, poised, not afraid to make the big play, can read defenses, and have strong arms(I know this point can be debated but I've watched them both make all the throws this year). They will all be very good QBs in the NFL if patience is shown and they are allowed to develop. Palmer is the perfect example, allowed to adjust and grow into being a starting QB, not rushed into it on a very bad team, ala Mirer, Leaf, and Carr. I don't think any QB will play that well on a very bad team. Big Ben was blessed with an awesome team. Peyton didn't have a great first year. We need to draft a QB but he needs to be shown patience and allowed to develop. NO need to rush him in unless he is ready for the job.
     
  31. Agent51

    Agent51 A True Fan

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    so did Peyton Manning...........it can go either way. It ALWAYS can, with any position. With the "so did Ryan Leaf" logic then we should just wait til round 6 for a QB, because that is where Brady came from and, love him or hate him, he wins.
     
  32. endorPHINS72

    endorPHINS72 Restore the greatness!

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    That's not true. I'm not taking anything away from USC's receiving corps, but Notre Dame's wide receivers are just as good. Jeff Samardzija caught 71 passes for 1190 yards (16.8 YPC average) and 15 TDs and is considered a legitimate 1st team All-American candidate. Maurice Stovall finally lived up to his immense potential this year and caught 60 passes for 1023 yards (17 YPC average) and 11 TDs. Notre Dame's tight end, Anthony Fasano, has some of the best hands of any tight end in the nation. While he only caught 2 TDs this year, he did manage to catch 45 passes for 564 yards (12.5 YPC average). Charlie Weis has been around a lot of really good tight ends (see Mark Bavaro and Ben Coates) and he said if he's coached a tight end who is better than Fasano, he can't remember him. While he is not as good as Reggie Bush (as I don't think there is a college player in the country who is), Darius Walker is a an excellent running back who is only a sophomore and will get even better.

    So Notre Dame is hardly void of talent on the offensive side if the ball as some would believe.
     
  33. SammySmif

    SammySmif Starter

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    I agree with this thread. Quinn was horrible until this year when Weis came in.

    What did Weis do? He gave his QB insane amounts of time to make plays by using 3 TE sets many times. Time that NFL QBs don't real have. I know Saban will not draft Quinn. I think Quinn is a great college QB because he listens and does what he is told, but im not so sure about in the pros.

    Weis makes QBs better then they are because he is an offensive genius.
     
  34. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Man of Steel

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    It can't be answered at this time because we have no idea how we'll end up... (6-10 seems about right, IMO)

    I really believe that Quinn and Young come out this year. The absence of a CBA in 07 will be the reason why, IMO.
     
  35. shellgh0st

    shellgh0st D-Unit

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    As I said, its a feeling I have, not a thought process. You know, like a hunch, or a gut feeling, sort of like when you thought Ronnie Brown would amount to nothing? lol Sorry, I had to ;)
     
  36. endorPHINS72

    endorPHINS72 Restore the greatness!

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    Brady Quinn was only a sophomore last year and despite playing for a poor coaching staff still showed glimpses of his potential. Tyrone Willingham was so rigid and unbending in his system. He was going to run the West Coast Offense no matter what. He did that with Carlyle Holliday (a great athlete whose strong suit is as an option QB) and with Brady Quinn (a prototypical dropback passer).

    As for your claims about Quinn having too much time, time that he wouldn't have in the pros, have you watched a game where the pocket collapses? He can make excellent throws on the run and make things happen with his feet.

    I do agree that he Coach Weis makes QBs better, but Tom Brady isn't exactly suffering since Weis has gone. Weis is an excellent teacher and an offensive genius. That will make Brady Quinn the most NFL ready QB to come out in years when he declares for the draft in 2007.
     
  37. enigmatics

    enigmatics Go get me a juice box!

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    Two completely different scenarios. I was arguing over who was the better pure runningback between Ronnie and Caddy - NOT which one will make it in the NFL. You're arguing that Quinn is a product of his system.

    Those "feelings" ever picked out the right numbers to Powerball by any chance? :rofl3:
     
  38. shellgh0st

    shellgh0st D-Unit

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    Nah, I clearly remember you being a RB HATER.

    Ever heard the term "eye for talent"? You know the thing you lack, considering how you hated on RB.


    P.S. I wasn't arguring, I was giving an opinion on how I FELT and made that clear from the start. So, read my posts clearly before you respond to what I post.
     
  39. byroan

    byroan A True Fan

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    Leaf was also a jerk who thought he was the greatest ever. He didn't listen to any of his coaches. Great comparison there. :rolleyes:
     
  40. dominizzo

    dominizzo CAMERON EARTH WAKE

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    I just hope we get a franchise Qb cuz we are lacking at the position since dan left!!! I hope Brady, Matt ,Pinegar, Young ,Cutler whom ever we choose will pan out
     
  41. shellgh0st

    shellgh0st D-Unit

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    I totally agree. Its our number one position of need. I'm willing to support whomever the team selects.
     
  42. DoLpHiNz34

    DoLpHiNz34 122.10.5!!!

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    I haven't watched him play, only highlights but this is exactly what worries me. I can very easily give Weis all the credit in the world because in my book he's an offensive genius. So much so, that I have to wonder if it's Weis' incredible NFL coaching ability and schemes that are making Quinn look great in college. Can Weis possibly do this with any half decent QB?
     
  43. GatorsFins23

    GatorsFins23 Don't act like you're not impressed....

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    IMO Quinn will be a great pick at QB for us if he declares. He has the size, arm, and mobility (at least within the pocket) to be very good...and as others have already said he has been dominant in a pro-style offense and has shown good awareness. I would be thrilled if we could get him.

    If he doesnt declare, though...I want Cutler. He has put up good numbers, and has impressed me the handful of times I've seen him play. The Vandy-UF game sold me on him..even in double OT in the Swamp he didnt seem at all nervous, calmly hanging in the pocket, dodging the rush and making laser throws all over the field. If either one of these guys is wearing aqua and orange next year, i'll be happy.
     
  44. clajoie_7

    clajoie_7 Starter

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    As is most successful qb's...
     
  45. enigmatics

    enigmatics Go get me a juice box!

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    Nah, the guy who created the thread in which "Ronnie was a bust" could be coined a hater. I merely spoke on my disappointment in Ronnie's dancing and ability to hit the hole early on in the year when Caddy was showing that he could come in and do it right away. That's no hatership, that's fact, Caddy was tearing it up. But as the weeks progressed Ronnie started showing the same and I attested to that. However it was never a matter of the bad case of hater that you're suffering from, just a case of impatience.

    Your feelings have no relevance to the argument at hand. You cannot simply discredit all that Quinn's showns simply because "you feel" a certain way. There's no factual substance to back any of that up. Besides, you never gave any indication about what it is exactly about Weis's system that could perhaps make a QB look better than he actually is - especially the author of this thread. It's a joke. Anytime arguments like this are brought up, people continue to utilize that same lame form of generalizing.

    If you actually paid attention to Quinn, broke him down by watching his mechanics, footwork, pocket awareness, etc. etc. you'd see one helluva QB. So let me hear this, if the man were to go back to school next year and continue on with his stellar performance would he still be just a "product" of the system he plays in?

    I'm sorry, but it defies all logic that (if he came out) he'd be a top 10 pick because of the system he played in. You actually have to have talent, a wealth of it at that, to get drafted that high.
     
  46. shellgh0st

    shellgh0st D-Unit

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    First, IMO, you are a RB HATER (that has now jumped on the bandwagon).

    Next, I wasn't arguing a side. I was giving an opinion on how I FELT. And made that CLEAR. So I don't need to provide facts.

    I didn't say 'Quinn sucks' and then instead of providing facts I said 'and thats how I feel'. What I said is, I have a strong FEELING he is a product of the system. And stated why I had that feeling in my original post.

    Get it? Is that beyond you?

    P.S. If you don't like the context in which that discussion is taking place, you don't have to reply to my post. Which clearly pointed out, that my opinion was based on a FEELING I had.
     
  47. LIQUID24

    LIQUID24 hi

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    Quinn is the real deal.
     
  48. enigmatics

    enigmatics Go get me a juice box!

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    Ya, a feeling which has no relevance to anything being discussed on this thread. You attempted to support the thread author's assumption that he was a product of his system based on your feelings. This is football talk son, not a heart-to-heart.

    ........and trust me, I'm on no bandwagon. I'm just able to admit that I was impatient with Ronnie. Perhaps someday you'll be able to admit your precious wittle feelwings are illegitimate. :shakeno:
     
  49. AZfinfan

    AZfinfan Seasoned Veteran

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    I say we make him a product of our system
     
  50. shellgh0st

    shellgh0st D-Unit

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    Legit or not, its how I feel and if you don't like the context of the conversion then why did you reply to my post? It has NO RELEVANCE, but you replied anyway? yeah, I think I know why, because you didn't read my post correctly.

    Having trouble with the whole reading thing?
     

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