Bryant McKinnie says Philbin doesn't deserve any blame

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Nublar7, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    Interesting to hear a view on this subject from someone who spent time in the Dolphins locker room.

    [video=youtube;Mvl46E-Rs-M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvl46E-Rs-M[/video]
     
  2. GreenMts

    GreenMts Seasoned Veteran

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    Might have a little more credence if he played with Martin and Cog for more than 1 week and 2 weeks respectively.
     
  3. TheJetsBlow

    TheJetsBlow A True Fan

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    I turned it off after he said Turner didn't deserve any blame.
     
  4. phinzfan21

    phinzfan21 A True Fan

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    Somebody wants to be re-signed.
     
  5. phinasota

    phinasota Bleed Aqua

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    haha, yeah hes lookin for a job! but honestly, i wish we woulda signed him when he was a free agent from the vikes. we prolly woulda never had any of tjese issues as ireland woulda had that spot on lock and went a different direction other than martin
     
  6. Dr. Phin

    Dr. Phin Scout Team

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    Didn't he join the team AFTER the whole thing blew up?
     
  7. phinking

    phinking A True Fan

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    McKinney needs to shut up. He got on the team after the fact. What does he know about this?
     
  8. nyfinzfan

    nyfinzfan Seasoned Veteran

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    Boy he really does wanna re-sign. This is ridiculous.
     
  9. DisturbedShifty

    DisturbedShifty Wort-wort-wort!!! Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Did he honestly say that Turner shouldn't be to blame? Doesn't the report specifically name Turner as one of the people who knew what was going on?
     
  10. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    I feel like Im in a football locker room at this very moment. Step back and look at some of the aggressive posts going around.

    I've only been on for about an hour and have been in only a few threads but I have yet to read one post taking into account that most of Martin's suffering was imposed on Martin by Martin. He was his worst bully. On many occasions he expresses the conflict he was battling; his inability to stand up, to bark back with banter of his own and gain the respect of his colleagues by giving as good as he was getting. I just used a freagin shark metaphor in another thread but redundancy be damned: said inability was the blood in the water for others and Martin himself. Believe me gentlemen, there isn't torment that can be conjured worst than that seen in a mirror. Martin was under the tyranny of self-loathing.

    Why is this important? The depression Martin was facing, the self-admitted feeling of worthlessness when considered with the obtuse nature of an event the likes of which the NFL has never experienced has to be taken into account when distributing blame. Should Turner be disciplined if Martin would have been able to cope even thrive in this environment?

    I believe the harsh treatment went way too far but I also believe that Martin's fear and his hatred of that fear bears a plethora of blame. This situation could have been addressed with tact. The action taken by Martin was extreme and abnormal. Depression, although prevalent, is by crude definition not normal. Why should these coaches assume blame for a quarrel that spans far beyond the reach of the locker room or texts messages?

    They should've been more aware. They should've been more proactive and positive but who could have guessed that behavior intended as jokes, harsh or not and accepted widely in the NFL despite harshness, would cause such harm in this ocker room? Why us? How could they have seen Martin coming? He was outside of the norm.

    The lesson must now be learned and it goes without saying that this behavior will greatly diminish from here forth.

    We are regarding the livelihood of others with such flagrance. If only it were you in that seat. What does Mckinnie's time with the Dolphins have to do with an logical opinion? And whether* you agree with the above point of view or not, you are a blatant liar if for yourself and for your family you would't say anything that needs to be said in order to retain a source of income.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2014
  11. CO-Gator

    CO-Gator They all float down here.

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    It's so weird hearing Stugotz not acting like a buffoon like he is on the LeBatard show.
     
  12. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    Le Batard has the best show in Florida and my bias would claim nationally as well. Sometimes it being so bad makes it so good. And Stugotz is a lovable character despite his buffoon-like ways.
     
  13. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of this interview. Turner apparently did play a role so thats the only part i disagree with.

    I think that it could have been solved as simple as telling someone like a Vet or Philban. Kept everything internal in the locker room, everybody keeps their jobs, the O-line (even though is wasnt great before) doesnt get torn to shreds and thrown to the lions with guys who really arent starters in the NFL.

    Its the same as just messing with your friend, if you take a shot at him and he laughs it off no harm done. If you take a shot and he doesnt like it and laughs it off how do you know you hurt the guy. If he doesnt say anything its just fun and games to the guys taking the cracks. I would bet that Incog did the same things to Poucey and Jerry and vice versa but they took it as jokes and not personal. Yes ritchie, poucey, and jerry were at fault but Martin needs to wake up and say something to them man to man not to the media after he is miles away living with mommy and daddy.
     
  14. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    I wont go as far as to condone the behavior but I agree it carried on, grew exponentially, and Martin was largely to blame. It pains me to stand on this side of the issue because I have personal experience with depression in my family and I feel for Martin so very much. That pain he was feeling, that suffering; ive witnessed it and its effects firsthand. But it was that mental illness that did not allow him to handle the situation tactfully.

    The report repeats- and boy does it do that in extreme redundancy in all facets- that Martin admits to being terrified to speak to coaches because he was afraid of being caught snitching. He couldnt summon the courage of risking being ostracized and facing even worse bullying but then he snitched on a stage so large that it could easily jeopardize the livelihood of 4 entities Martin included. Thats the illness. The illness does not allow one to handle a situation step by step. Its a slow turmoil of gathering of negativity and an internal festering until the point that normal becomes self hatred and it will reach a boiling point either at work, at Thanksgiving, or alone with pills in a bed room.

    Incognito has buried himself and he deserves it. How can you be dumb enough to continue to be an idiot in the NFL when you have already been in a negative national spot light not once but twice. And he's also not to blame because how could he have really known the turmoil he was causing Martin? If Martin goes to his friend and says you are doing this to me. Please, dial it down. If that happens and Incognito continues then Incognito is an even bigger weakling than Martin. Then he is truly a bully. Then he is truly scum. But we will never know if Incognito would have helped Martin because Martin's illness made him unable to cope with his anxiety, fears, and that knowledge, the torture of being self aware affected his performance in a work environment. He could not solve his issue in the locker room and he was clearly failing on the gridiron.

    I am not surprised that Incognito and the rest of them would behave in this manner. Ive seen jocks of their kind do this and they are the worst kind because the moment they hit on the comment that knifes you- in this situation being Martin's sister- they dont tone it down. They floor the pedal. And if you cant put a stop to it, thats on you, not anyone else.

    I have to continue to repeat myself in posting that the main focus in this matter should apply to the behavior in the work place. I dont care what illness or toughness you posses, you shouldnt have to go to work and deal with sh!t because people can get away with being dik$. We've all had days when you could screw around with anyone in the office (most likely pay Fridays) and we've all had days where you'd f@cking take a flame-thrower to the building if it wouldnt cost your freedom. But no one should have to deal with it. Now, this wrong will be righted.

    The wrongs Martin has committed due to his illness has affected how many people? How many? This entire situation is his fault. Its unfair, man, because i tell you- depression is a monster and severe depression can cost you your life. But it doesnt take away from the fact that Martin was the source. Martin held his future in his hands. Martin decided to take that future, let it morph into a bomb, and then strapped it to himself inside the Miami Dolphins' house. This explosion and the casualties that will follow is the result.
     
  15. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    My whole theory is Martin's mom was involved and they were playing along for a lawsuit. Thats why he never told anyone. This report makes Martin "the good guy."

    So now they have the football in their hands. What do you think is next? If the guy is stopping short of answering questions from an interview from two weeks ago?

    Lawsuit is on its way and it may be sticking around for a year or two. meanwhile, the NFL is about to become language police with warning signs like "hot coffee" for Mcdonalds.

    The only good that comes out of this and this is a big if is that teams will still want Martin and we can get something in a trade. I would think trading for players who the team might like to get rid of anyways.

    As for Turner, he denies knowing anything. The report only states they do not believe the male blow up doll thing. Turner supposedly asked Martin if he needed help and he turned it away. So really, how can anyone prove anything unless a court of law forces him to say something he did not say to Wells?

    Its up to the Miami Dolphins to make a move to save a what little egg is left on their face from a "right now" standpoint. If Mckinney is saying that Turner couldnt have known too much, who on the outside can dispell that? Fact is, no one can. Wells report states opinion when it comes right down to it. Its not proven, which is why there are many who say the report falls short.
     
  16. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    Where i bolded is exactly the way it needs to be interpreted. At the end of the day this is Wells opinion based on what he was told. If this was a different investigator it could look completely different. That is why you cant really start to fine guys or cost the team draft picks. Its not like the bounty case where is was black and white where players were either getting paid to hurt guys or not. With the bullying was he bullying him, to some yes, did he mean to bully him, matter of opinion only he knows.
     
  17. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    And at the end of the day, looking at the NO Saints, the HC is cleared. And I have said many times before, most of all this crap happened outside the locker room. The texts are almost all outside and away from camp, locker room, ect. ect.

    Martins side of thngs left completely out of this on alot of this stuff. Which means one-sided with opinion. This is the league covering its butt. As they should. It is the league who would get sued. Not the Miami Dolphins. The big money is the NFL. And Isnt this what every lawyer goes after?
     
  18. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. But one can easily infer that it was evident Turner and Pouncey were "pleading the 5th".

    A great point you brought up and it occurred to me while reading the report is that Martin's family didnt seem to take any drastic measure with this situation. If its my son, even at the risk of alienating him, I have to step in when the depression is getting as bad as hospitalization. At that point, one would assume an highly intelligent family unit would be aware that hospitalization and thoughts of hurting ones self is very closely related. Even psychiatrists have to break client patient privileges at a the point of potential physical harm. So, could such an intelligent family had a part in presenting to Martin a plan wherein he could escape his situation and possibly still have acceptance in the NFL?

    And then you have to ask yourself, where was this tact of protecting Martin either by his attorney or agent or family or Martin himself when he still had the opportunity to conjure a plan wherein he could present the issue to Philbin without implicating himself? Where was everyone's resolve then?

    I dont think this was such a conspiracy theory that it was all plotted out perfectly. I think the story of Martin exploding is genuine, that it wasnt some sort of plan to leave the organization in this fashion. But I do believe his camp had worked a blue print for Martin to resolve the issue He couldnt face his demons face to face but he could do it from far away. Depressives have a fear of facing that which mirrors in disgust. It feasible that his attorney, agent, etc said listen, if gets so bad this is what we have to do and you can do it safely from a far. It only makes sense that they would plot to protect themselves. I wouldnt harshly critique this because self preservation is instinctual. Its primal. But I would have reservations in asking why wasnt Martin's representation placing forth all of this effort into Martin finding a resolve within the organization.

    I feel for Martin. I agree with the general consensus that you cant take things to the extreme Incognito and the rest did. The matter of common sense and common decency is prevalent here. But again, this was all in the hands of Martin. He was in control of his future and he chose a future that caused much harm even to parties at the lowest point in the chain of relevance, us fans. Its terrible that it was the result of a mental illness but its still his fault.
     
  19. J Tes

    J Tes next generation

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    Lol Turner either
     
  20. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Those gus are on here in Rochester now in the afternoon on ESPN radio. I cant ever hang for more than 5 minutes listening to those guys. They are bad.
     
  21. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    Yes but no, no. While its a fair point, we want this report to result im some sort of reconciliation. Suspend Pouncey for games and dock his pay. Discipline Turner (not sure how that works with coaches). Go to great lengths and hire whatever counsel you can to implement a policy so refined that even the NFL will consider using it as the general policy for all teams. Whatever you do, fix this situation so that this is the final investigation.

    Whether we agree with this report, abhor it, or we are on the fence; one thing should remain clear amongst us fans. We want to bring this to an end as quickly as humanly possible and Ross MUST leave no stone unturned in order to make this happen.

    No more reports, guys. Stick to this one opinion or not. Its the safest course of action for us.
     
  22. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    Then you take your sports shows waaay too seriously.

    Its not your cup of tea and thats fine but even when they are bad it invokes the same response that made Howard Stern famous or infamous. You want to hear how ridiculously ludicrous they will venture because just as soon as they rev the engine as far into the red of terrible as you think it could go, they then hit lightspeed. And in part, they do it to get underneath the skin of listeners that share your opinion. I fine that hilarious. These guys have a national show spiting the uptight listeners and they do it intentionally. Im sorry. Thats brilliant. Getting a national show under that premise is f@cking brilliant.

    Stan Van Gundy is wonderful. The animal expert from Zoo Miami who's name escapes me is awesome. His enthusiasm to answer callers questions alone is radio gold. And Dan, always true to his roots and his character, never holds back on questions even if it makes interviews uncomfortable or even silly. Thats what made him entertaining in South Florida whether you make fun of him or love him and hes not going to change for an uptight national audience and i for one love it.
     
  23. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    How can you suspend a guy and dock his pay based on a matter of opinion? Thats $200K on the suspension alone based on an opinion? If your gonna cost a guy that kind of money it better be based on more than an opinion. Im not saying you need more than one opinion because your not gonna get one, maybe the NFLPA, but you cant dole out repercussions like that based on an opinion alone
     
  24. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    And that is a leader... I don't think his play this past year was excellent, but he was the most stable lineman playing not named Pouncey. I think i'm warming up to the thought of giving him another contract.
     
  25. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    Because I want to stop the bleeding now. An absolute worse scenario is having an investigation that involves the law where people can be subpoenaed. Why would you risk that by instigating, "We are not doing anything. This is an opinion and only an opinion." No way, bro. Thats ludicrous. do what you can to make this situation go away. If Pouncey or any one is stupid enough to want to invite further investigation of drug use and things of that nature by screaming bloody murder upon being disciplined then so be it. Its their funeral and further misfortune of more unceasing embarrassment for us.
     
  26. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    Ive never hear of a lawsuit about bullying. The guy is 20+ years only and never said a word to anyone as well as participated himself and most was away from the workplace. If there is a suspension it will be by the team and to what benefit will the team have from suspending their top lineman?

    Turner should be fired regardless due to the horrible OL. Who said further investigation on drug use? Pouncey would just refute the wells report not try and go deeper. You suspend Pouncey you let this whole incident leak into next year and even the next couple because Poucey leaves and there is no replacement for him. The best way to deal with it is replace turner (already done) release/Trade Martin, dont resign Incognito. This only hurts the team in the future if you make it that way. You can upgrade from Martin and incog but if Pouncey leaves the only way to get back the same caliber of plyer is if you sign Mack but it appears as though he will resign. Most other options are a downgrade and with a poor OL you dont want to downgrade.

    If it was just that easy to suspend pouncey it would have been done yesterday but all that does is cause more problems.
     
  27. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Yeah I understand that and I used to listen to Stern alot. But lets face it, there is a reason why Stern is a multi-millionare and these guys are just two more guys working for BSPN.

    And alot of radio you end up listening to alot of their personal stuff and experiences. I guess Im just not interested in what these two have to say. With howard, you would get a kid who would be recorded farting 155 times in a row.

    Pure entertainment.
     
  28. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    What did the Dolphins use to suspend Cog if not an opinion?
     
  29. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    um, proof of texts with language that is disgraceful?
     
  30. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I'm no lawyer but, are messages sent from player to player reason for an NFL team to suspend them? I think not.
     
  31. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    Voicemail and described it as conduct deter-mental to the team. Meaning his voicemail caused Martin to leave which was a determent to the team.
     
  32. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Are you saying that voice mails going back and forth between two individuals were the reason? I don't see that as any reason for a suspension. Do teams control what players say via the phone or internet?
     
  33. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    Read again, CONDUCT DETER-MENTAL TO THE TEAM. It caused Martin to leave the team mid season hurting the team. This is the offseason now meaning the report wont have a determent to the team at this point so Pouncey cant be suspended on the same basis.
     
  34. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    At least spell the words you're bolding properly, especially if you're sarcastically asking someone to read something again.

    Detriment.


    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
     
  35. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    Where did i bold? looks like capitals to me.
     
  36. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    I think the voicemail was Incognito's 3rd strike.
     
  37. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    And things of that nature I wrote, not just drugs. Their is a $hit load of dirty laundry to continue to air.

    I can see your point of view that suspending Pouncey will also elongate this nightmare but my point of view also makes plenty of sense. If Goodell (sp?) does not agree that the punishment fits the crime, we may very well be subject to further investigation and further negative media coverage of this organization not correctly handling a situation so on and so forth. That is as reasonable if not more reasonable then your point of view.

    Should Pouncey be allowed to be suspended for an opinion report? Thats is a valid question. Perhaps he shouldnt. But in our current situation, facing a report that goes a long way to producing widespread comments from teammates that Pouncey did take a substantial part in the bullying, then Pouncey should take whatever slap on the wrist- really a mere bull$hit 2 game suspension when you consider that Goodell has the power to investigate all of these guys for all of this talk of rampant drug use- Pouncey should take it, shut his mouth, and move forward in order to serve his time and let this die.

    Jesus Christ 123, they have physical texts as evidence of the crazy $hit that was taking place. It was an opinion report only because they were not employed to pursue lawful action on the matter. It was a mere investigation to gather facts. But the facts are f@cking condemning and that is undebatable by any reason you could possibly conjure up.

    In short, the Miami Dolphins need to make certain that the discipline they hand out is proportional to what the evidence has found if maybe even a smidgen over proportional. They have to appease Goodell. Goodell and his office have an easy mark and perfect case to make a major example out of us. We need to appease the football gods with sacrifice whether we like it or not.
     
  38. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    See- different strokes. Im not a fart humor kind of guy but I can understand those who are. Good stuff.
     
  39. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Not the point....the real point here is Martin never complained to managament or even teammates apparently...doesn't mean what was happening is right, but it does in my opinion esculpate Philbin and the staff from blame or punishment.
     
  40. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    Im honestly sorry to be a blatant d!$k and attack you here bro but I have nothing else to offer than that is a stupid thought. You're trying to sell me that texts using racial slurs, physically typed statements proving Martin's account is not a matter of texts condemning a player that may lead to an investigation resulting in a suspension of said player.? What kind of obscure existence do you, 123, and anyone else with this point of view live in?

    Martin could take this even beyond ludicrous and take Pouncey, Jerry, Incognito to civil court for a trial that, according to 90% of the media, the meatheads would lose in an instant. If Martin could prove he was in danger for his life, it could be criminal court.

    Have you read the report? If not, please do so you can have insight to the tactics of an attorney. The report is repetitive, so redundant that you will literally glide over exact sentences that have been repeated more than twice. The attorney's tactic of repetition can even be related to a poem, to manipulate the sentiment and frame of mind of a judge or jury with the case they are presenting so much so that the judge or jury may be hypnotized by the presentation.

    Now, we have to hope that this firm really did approach this investigation without bias, merely to gather facts and why would we even have reason to doubt that they wouldnt. This report has or will hypnotized the general public with repetition of the facts they gathered and the facts are damning concerning the evidence that was found portraying that these 3 meatheads were acting in a way that is even subject to punishment, not only from their employer, but by the law as well. The account of Player A having his butt fondled as joke is an open and shut case of sexual harassment.

    The report is condemning no matter how you spin it and the texts messages are substantial evidence that back Martin's accusations. Thats not even debatable. Its a fact.
     
  41. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    It's absolutely cause for suspension if it's harassment (conduct detrimental to the team).

    Once the team became aware of this stuff, it was well within its rights to suspend Richie.
     
  42. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    If Im not reading the posts correctly please correct me because I could swear you guys (123, South) are in agreement of this not being detrimental to the team. Did I miss something?

    And, dude, please revisit your last statement and ponder what you have written there for a good moment because it is astronomically incorrect. I mean we're talking in neighboring galaxy of unknown worlds with societies such as ours having ballparks of wrong.
     
  43. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    Case and point, no evidence, all opinion. The only evidence is texts Incog sent that martin also responded similarly to
     
  44. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    Are you saying the voicemail was not evidence?
     
  45. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    talking about poucey, as far as i know there havent been any voicemails released from pouncey but i may be wrong.
     
  46. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    Bryant McKinnie is an idiot.
     
  47. OnDaChainWax

    OnDaChainWax Well-Known Member

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    You are standing ground on a point you are clearly wrong on because that is what we posters do. It was an INVESTIGATION with the DIRECT INTENT to GATHER FACTS.

    Have you read the report? Be honest here. Wells offers opinions of his insight as well as insight of psychologists in addition to providing the gathered facts, statements, and evidence. He begins that damn report by telling you that those opinion are just that, opinions and that the content of the of the facts, statements, and gathered evidence is what should be taken into account. He must do this not only because its ethical but because they can get sued for adding the insight they offer as opinion without a disclaimer.

    Facts and opinions. What are you not comprehending? They have evidence- EVIDENCE- affirming Martin's case. That is not a matter of opinion. The comments, the statements that players and coaches made could be subpoenaed in a court of law. Huh, if you think that Pouncey wont start singing like a canary if hes called to a stand then he better hope to have an attorney good enough to convince a jury that pleading the 5th usually doesnt condemn the witness/defendant in the eyes of the jury/court.
     
  48. 123phins

    123phins Well-Known Member

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    Where are you getting this jury? its a civil case. Judge judy will read the report say stop wasting my time get over it next. Your blowing this thing up way too much in your head if you think this will be taken the a court where a jury will be involved, no court will do anything of that caliber to determined how bad one player hurt the others feelings.
     
  49. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Well, no. Unless those messages threaten to F your sister and C in her C and threaten him in the process after being assaulted on a yahct.

    cmon southbeach. You have to get real here.

    But once again, the manner in which Martin handled it was not right either.
     
  50. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Mcdonalds was sued over a hot cup of coffee and they won.
     

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