Cutler vs. Tannehill Season-Long Comparison Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by <O>, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    Would it be helpful to have this thread, so that there is a repository for the topic that just seems to be bursting at the seams and contaminating several other threads?

    If not please delete it. Thanks.
     
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  2. Beach Bum 91

    Beach Bum 91 Water Boy

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    I don't know, dude. Would comparing Cutler to Tannehill all season long be productive and bring Tannehill back sooner? I mean, it is what it is. Why belabor the issue?
     
  3. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin Burn the Jolly Roger Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    This thread is fine. We have had other Cutler vs Tannehill threads but for some reason many members prefer derailing other threads on this topic rather than discussing it in a proper thread. Good luck.
     
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  4. LoneStarPhin

    LoneStarPhin Well-Known Member

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    So anyway, I'm going to give it a season, including through playoffs- i think much else is premature and too subjective.

    It may all be moot by end of season anyway.
     
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  5. Jimi

    Jimi The World Is Yours

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    I think this is a great idea.
     
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  6. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Applaud the effort to keep this stuff out of other threads. Not sure how effective it will be but good luck.
     
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  7. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Good idea.
     
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  8. Spiff

    Spiff Starter Finheaven VIP

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    To the OP: I don't know what it is but you sure seem to have a problem with Tannehill. I have no idea what this comparison is good for. Comparing how Cutler plays versus what Tannehill would have potentially done? Why don't we include Marino in the discussion?
     
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  9. Jimi

    Jimi The World Is Yours

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    Cant speak to any biases the OP may have, but the comparison is is vital. If Cuter plays well this year we will have a very difficult decision to make next year. This will be one of the most important comparisons for our future, no reason the board shouldnt actively discuss it week to week.
     
  10. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    I'd like to see some better ball placement today that leads to more rac

    Chalk the first one up to rust

    Shoulder placement not ideal
     
  11. BahamaFinFan78

    BahamaFinFan78 A True Fan

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    Imagine this scenario. Cutler blows everyone away with his play this year, limiting turnovers and taking the Fins deep into the playoffs. Tannehill is let go and Cutler signs a two year extension. How much would Ryan demand on the market? What will he be worth?
     
  12. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    First, I'm not here to talk about me. There are far more interesting topics related to the Miami Dolphins. Second, the comparison between Cutler and Tannehill has been happening already, by a good number of people in several other threads, leading to repeated intervention by the moderators.

    In other words, this is an important topic to a good number of people here, to the point that it becomes interwoven into threads in which it's clearly off-topic. The sensible thing to do in my opinion is to create just one place for that discussion.

    If some members believe as you do that there is no point to such a discussion, naturally they have the choice not to click on this thread, and the other threads they do click on will hopefully be far less contaminated by a topic they believe has no usefulness.

    There is also the choice to put me specifically on your ignore list, which will make this thread disappear completely from the forum for you.
     
  13. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    Miami wouldn't have to cut him he'd have suitors in trade. Anyone that couldn't land a top 3 pick for a qb would probably come calling especially anyone that runs a pre snap and progression read o.

    cincinatti comes to mind they won't land a top 5 pick and daltons out the door. Although they run a pro style o tanny could make that transition. It would be a team that thinks the qb is holding them back and doesn't want to start over.
     
  14. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

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    It wouldn't be Ryan making demands, he isn't going to be cut.
     
  15. BenchFiedler

    BenchFiedler Undrafted Pro-Bowler

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    Do you guys believe Cutler will retire after this season? I personally think that he is a different person, more mature, better team player, playing smarter on the field (not forcing throws). Gase will have a tough decision to make after this season.
     
  16. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    Just keep in mind cutler got the matt Moore treatment playcall wise in the first half and at the end of the game.

    That was don't let the qb beat me gameplan and in game play calls.

    He does though have nice feel for movement in the pocket. Shuffle to space etc.
     
  17. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    So in theory, I think this thread is a great idea.

    The problem will always be, if Cutler has a great game, people point out things Tannehill don't do as well or if Cutler has a poor game people will point out what Tannehill would of done better. All of which is pretty silly on a week to week basis because both QBs have a mediocre track record in the NFL.

    All that matters in 2017 is Jay Cutler and the Miami Dolphins, once some people come to that realization, then the board can function properly. There should be no definitive in either direction at this point, but like I have always said, Cutler can absolutely make this a conversation by the end of the year . . . that time has not come yet.

    I honestly do not believe this thread will be a success. To many years, too many people invested in one way or the other in regards to Tannehill. That is right, this thread will have very little to do with Jay Cutler as the season progresses, unless he is playing some sort of top 5 ball that is undisputed. It will always be centrally focused around 17 and the woulda coulda's that he can or cannot do. Every Cutler mistake will be a "I miss Tannehill", every Cutler achievement will be "Tannehill would of done that" or "Tannehill would never have done that" . . . viscious cycle.

    But if the mods feel like it is a thread idea that is worth the trouble, by all means go for it.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    The interesting thing about that topic is that if Cutler plays very well and wants to keep playing, what kind of salary will he request, and what kind of cap hit would that create in comparison to Tannehill's?

    All of that is important because it has an impact on how much remaining cap money the team has to pay talent elsewhere on the roster. Tom Brady takes regular voluntary pay cuts for this very reason. He wants to keep New England as competitive as possible.
     
  19. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    I'm just gonna call it like I see it like I always do. When he makes a mistake I will know when he does well I will know too.

    Today is if need be all work off pa and run game win formula unless the scoreboard says something different.

    They could run all motion based coverage ids if need be.

    Im looking forward to the non motion based coverage ids cause that's where matt Moore stinks up the joint.

    He also does a really good job of id the mike early so pouncey can set protections
     
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  20. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    The thread will be a success in my opinion if only three things are accomplished:

    1) It ends the contamination of other threads by this topic and the need for the moderators to intervene in that regard.

    2) It produces quality discussion about the effect of Cutler versus Tannehill on the team.

    3) The people involved follow the ToS.
     
  21. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Funny enough, you are the last person I'm worried about in regards to this topic. You always call it like you see it, no matter your preference or the popular opinion on any player. People may not want to hear it at the time, but truth is truth for sure with you.
     
  22. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    1. Will never happen, I think everybody knows that.

    2. I do think this will be a topic that engages with Cutler/Tannehill debates. How productive those conversations are vs. how "I am right no I am right" they are is yet to be seen.

    3. This thread will have mod warnings throughout the life of it . . . I think we all know that as well.
     
  23. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind however that Tannehill was used in just that way during the first five games of the season last year, and the result was the following:

    Prior to 2016, Tannehill's numbers per game were the following:

    Attempts: 35.1
    Completions: 21.8
    Yards: 241.6
    YPA: 6.87
    YPC: 11.1
    TDs: 1.36
    INTs: 0.84
    Sacks: 2.88
    Yards Lost on Sacks: 21.7

    His average career QB rating per game was 84.8.

    Through the first five games of 2016, his per-game numbers were:

    Attempts: 31.2
    Completions: 20
    Yards: 254
    YPA: 8.2
    YPC: 12.7
    TDs: 1.2
    INTs: 1.4
    Sacks: 3.4
    Yards Lost on Sacks: 23

    QB Rating: 83.6

    Tannehill was being used a good bit more aggressively during that part of the season, as evidenced by the increase in his yards per attempt and yards per completion.

    On the flipside, that aggressiveness was accompanied by more mistake-proneness. Tannehill's number of interceptions per game rose from below one (0.84) to nearly one and a half (1.4).

    At that point Tannehill was being coached to be more than just a "game manager," and to that point in the season he was mismanaging the game. The team was a mere 1-4 at that point, due in large part to the 7 INTs that were thrown.

    From then on he was used much differently, in a much more conservative manner, and the result was a QB rating over 100 during that period, and a 7-1 record.

    So, coming back to the topic at hand, the interesting question for me will be whether Gase can use Cutler more aggressively, without the INTs Tannehill threw during the early part of the season.

    No one knows whether that will happen of course, but if it does it'll create a huge difference in this team's ability to win.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  24. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    So if we are counting at home the pocket find space play and the id of the mike early are the two strengths thru 1 game the ball placement the one ehh so far.

    You throw behind crossers vs zone drop out and you are asking for tipped balls and pick 6s.

    He threw behind juice multiple times and he also needs better placement in the screen game
     
  25. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think the most promising thing we saw from Jay Cutler was his pocket movement. He instinctively looked as good as anything we've seen back there since Chad Pennington in 2008.

    I think that will only aid the offensive line and the running game going forward. He doesn't have Ryan's wheels for sure but I was impressed that he was this into it after coming out of retirement and all the different distractions and lack of game time.

    Ball placement certainly can be better. Short on the parker throw that he was bailed out on, threw a bit behind on the Stills td, over threw Jarvis in the endzone and on several crosses receivers had to reach a bit back. Timing and Continuity and rust all play a role in that. It is an area I expect to see him improve on as the season progresses. It could take several weeks to be honest.
     
  26. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    And all that would be the fault of other people, and not me. A person starting a thread with good intentions bears no responsibility for the misbehavior of other people. The person who invented the gun, for example, isn't responsible for the gun-related crimes that pervade modern society.

    At the very least, the moderators now have the ability to say "there is another thread just for that" when intervening in off-topic Cutler/Tannehill comparisons elsewhere.
     
  27. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    The main thing for me is don't be the or a reason we lose football games. If cutler can do that we will be fine cause we have a lot of talent on o and with dvps emergence it's pick your poison for D.C.'s Ajayi beats you or dvp does.

    Although miamis gonna have to open it up more that's where cutler is gonna either sink or swim.
     
  28. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Nobody is making you accountable for any of it. But seeing that your start date is not even 2 months old, you have little clue of how bad it has gotten over the years in regards to 17. You would know that a thread like this and having good intentions is sort of an oxymoron . . . but I will leave this whole thing alone at this point as the mods have signed off on it and we have started discussing.

    Just leave the gun comparison to the political forum . . . which you have arguably violated TOS yourself here. Page 1 and it starts lol
     
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  29. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    But I think there you're illustrating precisely the difference, possibly, between Tannehill and Cutler.

    When teams focused on Ajayi last year after he got going, the response in the downfield passing game didn't make them pay enough in my opinion. Tannehill continued to play a game manager role, despite the opportunity to exploit opposing defenses that were hyper-focused on Ajayi.

    If Ajayi plays similarly this year, resulting in an over-commitment to stopping the running game by opposing teams, the result needs to be big plays and touchdowns in the passing game.

    That in turn would keep Ajayi going strong, as well, as defenses would be in the quandary of trying to stop one of the league's best running backs, and a dangerous downfield passer, simultaneously.

    So if Parker is indeed going to be the kind of weapon that's important in the equation you're outlining above -- which is a sound one -- the quarterback is also going to have to be more aggressive downfield, again without making too many mistakes as you said.

    What won't translate to any better a chance to win is if Ajayi gets going, defenses stack eight in the box to stop him, and Cutler plays a game manager role and doesn't make them pay downfield. Then you'll have 2016 all over again.
     
  30. Goin` Deep

    Goin` Deep "Pick your guy and let it fly" Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Season long, huh? Oh, I'm going to enjoy seeing where this thread goes....if it even sticks.
     
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  31. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    San Fran is the only team that full on said Ajayi is not gonna beat us and tanny shredded them. To the point a San Fran db said "i know one thing they got a qb"

    And Miami came out in full no huddle last year the first 5 weeks that is not limiting the qb exposure. In a brand new offense no less.

    But either way I do tape analysis and cutler will get the same tape treatment tanny did from me. That much I can guarantee you.
     
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  32. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    Not if we win the SB:biggrin
     
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  33. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Its funny, why on earth wouldn't Cutler want to go out on such a high note.

    Then you realize he is only 34 years old and could still snag a 4 year, $80+ million contract if he played well. Not even Fox is paying that kind of money.
     
  34. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I do. He retired the first time means heart isn't in it anymore or body can't handle it etc. He decides to grab the $10mil and run - one more year.
     
  35. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Yes if he plays well he can pad his already wealthy pockets. I just think we are all under estimating what it means that he retired already. One retires when the heart isn't in it anymore or the body just won't go. He feels to me like the rock band that reunites to do one last world tour, take cash and ride off into the sunset.
     
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  36. Stoobz

    Stoobz Scout Team Finheaven VIP

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    I, for one, am tired of seeing the comparisons pop up in seemingly every decent thread. It almost always has something to do with the person posting dissing on Tannehill for whatever reason. The haters are endless.

    The fact is, we are lucky to be able to have the services of Cutler, regardless of any comparisons with Tannehill.

    They both have advantages over the other, why can't we move on and support whomever is our QB.

    Let tomorrow's problems wait until tomorrow.
     
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  37. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Agreed! in the short time the OP has been here, he's been like a pitbull with an anti-Tannehill agenda - as evidenced by over 85% of all his posts.

    As an alleged newbie its apparent that this is not his first fins forum rodeo - and possibly not even his first FH rodeo!! Can't help but wonder if he outwore his welcome elsewhere (or Here) with this one trick pony obsession.
     
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  38. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

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    I humbly recommend that anyone who feels similarly to the above put me on your ignore list and thereby completely eliminate me and the threads I start from your experience of the forum.

    That will be the last mention of me, by me, in this thread or any other.
     
  39. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I get the distinction that what you're saying is "I acknowledge you are correct and if you don't like my agenda then ignore me")
     
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  40. Snoop

    Snoop A True Fan

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    Like I've said a million times, If Tannehill is really as good as half this board thinks he is then if we make him available in the offseason we should be flooded with great offers...like a 1st + another pick. Now we have two 1st round picks, really offers flexibility, bring Cutler back on a 1 or 2 year deal, and draft our eventual franchise QB high in the draft.
     
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