Damontre Moore's stock falling?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by state06, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. state06

    state06 A True Fan

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    Russ Lande states that of the scouts he has talked to, none have Moore ranked in the first round. This came as news to me as only a few weeks ago we were hoping to see him drop to us at #12.


    More here: http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/131819/damontre-moore
     
  2. JDRA20

    JDRA20 Well-Known Member

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    If Damontre Moore's there at 12, I take him. He'd be perfect opposite Cam, and would give us that pass rushing boost. Hopefully Mike Sherman has a little insight on him and knows whether or not to pull the trigger come April.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Well, whoever was "hoping" Damontre Moore falls to #12 overall...it wasn't me.

    I think he's monstrously overrated. He's quite good when being blocked by air. Not so much when being blocked by...a human.
     
  4. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    i'll go on record that moore will be a first round pick...
     
  5. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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  6. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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  7. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter

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    85 tackles, 21 tackles for a loss an 12.5 sacks...never knew there was that much air in the SEC.
     
  8. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    like the fact that the kid latched on to von millers parents as part of his maturation process.. he's got some holes in his game, but I think he'd be a helluva tandem with cameron wake.

    If somehow we walked away from this draft with moore and carradine, I'd be drunk for ten straight days. I've been vocal about doubling up at the position for a long time now.. I dont' see that changing.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Yeah and if you actually watch him play football and have an understanding of how he acquired those stats you understand that I spoke no word of lie.
     
  10. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    to say damontre moore is "monstrously" overrated... is a bit much for even me to stomach, and I can really digest quite a bit to be honest.

    I'd give you a bit over rated... even by my standards which are probably a bit stringent for some and loose for others perhaps... to say a guy is a top ten pick and have another say he is a top of the 2nd round pick... that would fall under a bit over rated IMO...

    I would venture a guess that "Monstrously" over rated would mean that a guy who is generally considered a first round pick and in a lot of cases, a top ten pick, top 13 pick... is actually considered a middle 3rd or 4th round player...


    i just can't get behind an accusation like that.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Watch his entire game against Alabama.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3VF1vkiKFo

    When does he really beat ANYONE in the video? Aside from one play, a run play, he beats tight end Brian Vogler (notice it wasn't Michael Williams) pretty good.

    Hell, even little 5'11" and 185 lbs WIDE RECEIVER Christion Jones blocked him adequately.

    And you know what, watch him play against Xavier Nixon and Florida. Watch him get 3 sacks because Jeff Driskel is a running quarterback that abandons the pocket and hangs his offensive linemen out to dry in the process. I've watched every snap of Xavier Nixon playing against Cornelius Washington, Jarvis Jones, Lavar Edwards, Sam Montgomery, Tank Carridine, Walker May, Jadaveon Clowney and Damontre Moore. Know whom he handled the easiest? It wasn't Walker May, Lavar Edwards or Cornelius Washington. It was Damontre Moore.

    I think he moves around well in space. In fact he moves around so well in space, he is able to accumulate a remarkable amount of clean-up type stats off his motor. He might do well as a 3-4 OLB at the next level. But for all that, he's not fast. He's probably got 4.8 speed. I just don't ever see the guy threatening the quarterback IN the pocket. He seems to always get what he gets when the quarterback fails to use the pocket correctly, whether it be backing up or rolling out or just running straight into Damontre...plays where whoever is trying to block him is left with an impossible job to do. And naturally, when he's left completely unblocked and up to his own devices, he does quite well with his agility and play awareness. He's just not very strong.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Just recently I have heard Todd McShay (who interestingly enough is now talking about Damontre's off field baggage) say that Damontre Moore could end up the #1 overall pick in the Draft. And he wasn't alone, others have consistently pegged him not just top 10 but top 5, top 2, and like I said McShay even suggested...top 1.

    So yeah, I call that monstrously overrated. I think Russ Lande is closer to having the right of it when he puts Damontre in the 2nd round and notes that no scout he's talked to has Damontre in the 1st round.
     
  13. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    one of the sacks against florida, i believe it was a the top of the 2nd qtr... was on a inside stunt play, that nixon followed moore in on, gave him a love pat or two, and when driscoll left the pocket, nixon still could have engaged moore and failed to do so... moore than pursued the qb on the scramble and caught him for the sack...

    does the man really get zero credit for that?
     
  14. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    people have different opinions on a wide range of things... you don't seem to deal with that well.

    for example... you and I have differing opinions on the meaning of the word "monstrously"... and just recently "off field baggage"..
    he has quite a bit less baggage than say a von miller had coming out of A&M... at least IMO.

    we also have differing opinions of just how many scouts tell the truth to every tom **** and harry this time of year...

    is this the same russ lande who has ziggy ansah going #2 overall to jacksonville, keenan allen going #6 overall to cleveland, geno smith #7, ryan nassib #8..... I'm not sure how much stock I'd put into mr. lande... but to each his own.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    If you're referring to this play, then no. No he doesn't get credit. It's more of the same. In fact I would note how strongly Xavier Nixon is able to punch and re-direct Moore, which is evident across his entire body of work. Nixon passes Moore off in the zone protection to an inside player because Damontre stunted inside after he got rocked by Nixon's punch. In the end, Moore is only able to get the sack because Driskel broke the pocket and created a favorable angle for Moore.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kTNtQQvE7LE#t=69s

    Now if you're talking about later in the drive when he executed an inside move to get the sack, yes Damontre Moore gets credit for that sack...which he got by beating right guard Jon Halapio, who will not likely be playing in the NFL.
     
  16. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    you got an offensive lineman chasing a defensive end as he makes the sack on the qb, and you praise the offensive tackle????
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    On the contrary, I recognize valid differences of opinion all the time. If you expect me to suddenly retract my opinion about Damontre Moore being overrated because you disagree with me, and the fact that I'm not doing so bothers you, then I would suggest it's you who has a little bit of problem with different opinions.

    Russ Lande has some very outlandish opinions. When he ranked his top 100 players and had Damontre Moore not ranked high enough for the 1st round, I didn't say anything about it. Lande's not a guy whose OPINION I would cite as evidence of my being right about anything. However, in this particular case he mentioned something very specific. He said that no scout he's talked to (which implies he's talked to multiple scouts) has Damontre Moore as a 1st round player.

    Do scouts lie at this time of year? Absolutely. But I've been following the Draft long enough to know they don't lie all the time. I'd say maybe about 30% of what you hear being sourced from scout opinions has anywhere from a a bit of exaggeration to an outright lie in it. Telling which ones are the lies and which ones ring true is always going to be all about discerning with your own eyes and ears which ones make sense and which do not.

    When I watch Damontre Moore, I see a player I would not take with a 1st round pick knowing that my job is on the line if this guy doesn't pan out. And now I find it interesting that Todd McShay, who only a week or so ago during the All Star Football Skills Challenge specifically said Damontre Moore could even go #1 overall...is now leaving Moore out of his top 10 and citing baggage issues...well, that strikes me as conspicuous as well.

    If you disagree, you disagree, and that's fine.
     
  18. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    so which is it???

    russ lande has no scouts telling him damontre moore is a first round talent and thus has him in the 2nd...

    or mel kiper who is as you said in another thread, very sensitive to what scouts tell him when he compiles his lists... has damontre moore going #2 overall??

    we both can at least agree, that it can't be both??!!
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    They did their jobs. When the quarterback breaks the pocket, he is on his own when it comes to evading the pursuit. The offensive line are set up to protect a spot in the pocket, and they've got their backs to the quarterback while the defensive linemen are watching the quarterback with their eyes. The offensive linemen can't see the quarterback break the pocket but the defensive linemen can. They are able to react sooner.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    That's pretty easy. Russ Lande specifically cited scouts' opinions. Mel Kiper did not. Just because Mel Kiper generally listens to scouts when coming up with his Big Board, doesn't mean it's the case with every player. If Mel Kiper came out there and said I've got scouts telling me he's #2 overall or #1 overall worthy, then that would be a direct contradiction with Russ Lande. And I'd be inclined to believe Kiper over Lande. But that's just not what has happened here. Generally in the absence of directly contradictory evidence I will assign some weight to where guys rank on Mel Kiper's Big Board, because I know his habits when it comes to listening to scouts.

    With Cordarrelle Patterson I've heard no conflicting evidence to suggest this is a guy that Kiper is just "winging it" with. In fact, to the contrary, I find it interesting that two former scouts in Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah have Cordarrelle going top 12 as well (Jeremiah has him #8 overall to the Bills). If there were directly contradicting evidence then that would cast doubt on Patterson's draft stock in my eyes. But there hasn't been, only supporting evidence at this point.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    And by the way, it can absolutely be both. And in fact for certain prospects, it is both. For example, all evidence suggests there's an even split down the aisle on Ezekiel Ansah. Some scouts truly believe him a top 10 player. Other scouts wouldn't take him until the 2nd round.
     
  22. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    your pretty crafty when it comes to dodging a question. the fact of the matter is neither of these two have cited anybody... it's like espns' infamous "sources"... nobody put a name to anything, particularly in landes case, because when it comes to kiper, all I did was take your thread sentence for evidence. you talk in one thread like you personally know kiper and come off as matter of fact when you state that he takes serious what scouts tell him when compiling his lists, and now I am almost led to believe that kiper just threw damontre moore in at #2 to be bashful for everyone...

    Until lande grows some grapefruits and puts a name to his accusations in regards to moore, I will only allow myself to take this story as fact about as much as I lend weight to what two "former" scouts in bucky brooks and daniel jeremiah think of cordarelle patterson. afterall, lets face it, they are former scouts for a reason.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    What you just wrote above is not at all a good argument. You've kind of regressed into some hazy, generalized, convoluted morass of accusations and fragmented lines of reasoning.

    Anonymous sources are still sources. Russ Lande labeled them specifically as scouts. If you think he's directly lying, so be it. I do not.
     
  24. NUGap

    NUGap Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I'm sorry if there's a no .gif rule, this seemed like the perfect place to put this.
     
  25. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    did a a quick internet search of some mock drafts and a couple guys who I know have had some fans on here and their mock drafts in regards to demontre moore, I found particularly interesting.

    michael schottey demontre moore going #8.

    Rob Rang demontre moore going #2... quote " terrorized the conference"..

    to be completely forthcoming, i did find another mock that had moore 16. I will try to find it.

    i think it was bleacher report... nevermind. matt miller has him going #6...

    I will find it... give me a minute.
     
  26. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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  27. NUGap

    NUGap Well-Known Member

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    To be totally fair, no one knows anything now. Because I'm procrastinating, here are two notable mock drafts from last year:


    • WalterFootball.com within two days of a year from today had Reily Reiff going 6th to the Redskins, Kendall Wright 7th to the Jags, and Devon Still 12th to the Seahawks

    • Mel Kiper within three days of a year from today had Courtney Upshaw at 10, Coples at 7 and Jon Martin at 13.

    Let's all agree that no one knows anything at this point. If Courtney Upshaw and Jon Martin can drop to the 2nd round, so can Damontre Moore. He could also stay up at the top of the draft. There is a preponderance of evidence indicating that either could happen. At this point though, everyone trying to predict the draft is essentially running around in circles trying to snatch out of thin air whatever pieces of evidence we can find. We know there will be a Bruce Irvin and there will be an Alfonzo Dennard. That's all we know and really we know less than that. Like I've said before, in the end one person will be right, and one person will be wrong. That's the nature of the game.
     
  28. justdev7

    justdev7 Rookie

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    Haha CK I feel like damontre Moore wronged you in a past life or something.

    You're old school hatin d Moore. The guy has a great first step and has put on the weight+ strength to play the run competitively.
     
  29. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    he's murder when he's clean which is when he does most his damage...but when he has to beat a tackle on the edge his tools aren't anything special...i personally think he's a bit overrated also...not all that fast off the ball from a 3 point stance either
     
  30. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i'm with the scouts that have ansah as a 2nd round prospect...
     
  31. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Count me as somebody who doesn't want Ansah at all. Obviously has talent, but too much of a project.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Zeke Ansah and Damontre Moore are similar in how they play on the field, but between the two of them I'll take the 275 lbs sucker that runs a 10.9 in the 100 meters and has the upside. They're both not guys that go out there and win against tackles, yet. Not even college right tackles.
     
  33. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    ansah or okafor??? i'm rollin with okafor cause i believe in his edge pass rush against tackles more...
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    That's a little bit tougher for me but I'll agree with you on Okafor. I've remained high on him. I think he's a better athlete than generally given credit for being and he just "gets it" as far as playing most phases the way they need to be played from his position. Hand use is the best in the draft at that position other than maybe Werner...and that one is pretty debatable. I don't really know if Ansah will ever "get it" as far as using his hands and feet in concert to create space and opportunities for himself in pass rush, while reading the play at full speed from snap to whistle, the way he'll need to...but I think Okafor already does get it and will just continue to get sharper, and that probably outweighs the pure athletic potential of Ansah. Just my opinion.
     
  35. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    ever notice CK that the whole world projects Patterson to us and no one else? Its cus the world hates miami and they want us to take the "raw" prospect who will be great in two to three years.

    Sorry, I would rather do that with Terrence Williams, Hopkins, and/or Swope with Hartline coming back who already knows this offense and plays reall well in it.

    Mel Kiper hates miami. Why would any miami fan agree with anything mel kiper says about who miami should take? He is suckering us. But I am not worried, cus Joe Philbin is in charge of this team.
     
  36. finfan54

    finfan54 A True Fan Donator

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    Im in for Moore, and if he does fall, so be it. Maybe Ireland gets wind of that and drops down....and takes Tyler Eifert!!!1 hahahahahha!

    BTW, there was this kid from Syracuse named Jones, who nobody was talking about until a few weeks to draft. He was a second rounder, then the Patriots took him.

    Guys move up, guys move down. Because players are cheaper now, they are a little more risky and also want a guy who fits there scheme and need.

    Every year there is a first rounder who falls to the 7th round.

    And on Alabama CK, does anyone do well against Alabama? just thought I would ask, because I hear lately, they are a dynasty. Half their Oline will be taken in first 50 picks.
     
  37. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    If you just look at the mocks on nfl.com, there is exactly 1 mock that has Patterson going to Miami. 3 of the 6 have him going before 12. The other two (Brooks has Patterson going to Miami at 12) have him falling out of the 1st. So . . .
     
  38. Fin_Frenzy_84

    Fin_Frenzy_84 Starter

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    Moore will be a beast... I promise that!
     
  39. 2413fanphins

    2413fanphins A True Fan

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    how dare you say such a thing.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    FWIW (and I think j-off-her-doll mentions it below), a lot of the mocks I see place Cordarrelle Patterson above Miami going to other teams. Mel Kiper is the one that's currently banging the drum for Cordarrelle at 12 to Miami, and Bucky Brooks joined in. As I said Daniel Jeremiah doesn't even have Cordarrelle lasting long enough. He has him going to Buffalo at 8 overall.

    I've never seen any evidence to suggest that Mel Kiper "hates" Miami, or any one specific team for that matter. Nor do I think Mel Kiper would specifically hand Cordarrelle Patterson over to a team in his mock drafts because he hates that team. He's been singing Cordarrelle Patterson's praises and placing him on his top 25 "Big Board" for months now, long before anyone else was doing so. Not mock drafts, mind you. The Big Board, his top 25 prospects. If the story you're trying to tell were true, then he wouldn't rank Cordarrelle Patterson high on his Big Board...he'd just hand him to Miami in his mock drafts even though he personally ranks Patterson low.

    Don't you think you're being just a LITTLE bit paranoid here? I don't mind if you or anyone else doesn't like Cordarrelle Patterson. There's plenty to be scared of with him (as with most prospects). But that doesn't mean we have to start cooking up half-baked conspiracy theories with everyone out to get us, etc.
     
  41. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Ah yes. A convenient world where disagreement = persecution.
     

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