Damontre Moore's stock falling? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Damontre Moore's stock falling?

you got an offensive lineman chasing a defensive end as he makes the sack on the qb, and you praise the offensive tackle????
 
people have different opinions on a wide range of things... you don't seem to deal with that well.

for example... you and I have differing opinions on the meaning of the word "monstrously"... and just recently "off field baggage"..
he has quite a bit less baggage than say a von miller had coming out of A&M... at least IMO.

we also have differing opinions of just how many scouts tell the truth to every tom dick and harry this time of year...

is this the same russ lande who has ziggy ansah going #2 overall to jacksonville, keenan allen going #6 overall to cleveland, geno smith #7, ryan nassib #8..... I'm not sure how much stock I'd put into mr. lande... but to each his own.

On the contrary, I recognize valid differences of opinion all the time. If you expect me to suddenly retract my opinion about Damontre Moore being overrated because you disagree with me, and the fact that I'm not doing so bothers you, then I would suggest it's you who has a little bit of problem with different opinions.

Russ Lande has some very outlandish opinions. When he ranked his top 100 players and had Damontre Moore not ranked high enough for the 1st round, I didn't say anything about it. Lande's not a guy whose OPINION I would cite as evidence of my being right about anything. However, in this particular case he mentioned something very specific. He said that no scout he's talked to (which implies he's talked to multiple scouts) has Damontre Moore as a 1st round player.

Do scouts lie at this time of year? Absolutely. But I've been following the Draft long enough to know they don't lie all the time. I'd say maybe about 30% of what you hear being sourced from scout opinions has anywhere from a a bit of exaggeration to an outright lie in it. Telling which ones are the lies and which ones ring true is always going to be all about discerning with your own eyes and ears which ones make sense and which do not.

When I watch Damontre Moore, I see a player I would not take with a 1st round pick knowing that my job is on the line if this guy doesn't pan out. And now I find it interesting that Todd McShay, who only a week or so ago during the All Star Football Skills Challenge specifically said Damontre Moore could even go #1 overall...is now leaving Moore out of his top 10 and citing baggage issues...well, that strikes me as conspicuous as well.

If you disagree, you disagree, and that's fine.
 
so which is it???

russ lande has no scouts telling him damontre moore is a first round talent and thus has him in the 2nd...

or mel kiper who is as you said in another thread, very sensitive to what scouts tell him when he compiles his lists... has damontre moore going #2 overall??

we both can at least agree, that it can't be both??!!
 
you got an offensive lineman chasing a defensive end as he makes the sack on the qb, and you praise the offensive tackle????

They did their jobs. When the quarterback breaks the pocket, he is on his own when it comes to evading the pursuit. The offensive line are set up to protect a spot in the pocket, and they've got their backs to the quarterback while the defensive linemen are watching the quarterback with their eyes. The offensive linemen can't see the quarterback break the pocket but the defensive linemen can. They are able to react sooner.
 
so which is it???

russ lande has no scouts telling him damontre moore is a first round talent and thus has him in the 2nd...

or mel kiper who is as you said in another thread, very sensitive to what scouts tell him when he compiles his lists... has damontre moore going #2 overall??

we both can at least agree, that it can't be both??!!

That's pretty easy. Russ Lande specifically cited scouts' opinions. Mel Kiper did not. Just because Mel Kiper generally listens to scouts when coming up with his Big Board, doesn't mean it's the case with every player. If Mel Kiper came out there and said I've got scouts telling me he's #2 overall or #1 overall worthy, then that would be a direct contradiction with Russ Lande. And I'd be inclined to believe Kiper over Lande. But that's just not what has happened here. Generally in the absence of directly contradictory evidence I will assign some weight to where guys rank on Mel Kiper's Big Board, because I know his habits when it comes to listening to scouts.

With Cordarrelle Patterson I've heard no conflicting evidence to suggest this is a guy that Kiper is just "winging it" with. In fact, to the contrary, I find it interesting that two former scouts in Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah have Cordarrelle going top 12 as well (Jeremiah has him #8 overall to the Bills). If there were directly contradicting evidence then that would cast doubt on Patterson's draft stock in my eyes. But there hasn't been, only supporting evidence at this point.
 
And by the way, it can absolutely be both. And in fact for certain prospects, it is both. For example, all evidence suggests there's an even split down the aisle on Ezekiel Ansah. Some scouts truly believe him a top 10 player. Other scouts wouldn't take him until the 2nd round.
 
That's pretty easy. Russ Lande specifically cited scouts' opinions. Mel Kiper did not. Just because Mel Kiper generally listens to scouts when coming up with his Big Board, doesn't mean it's the case with every player. If Mel Kiper came out there and said I've got scouts telling me he's #2 overall or #1 overall worthy, then that would be a direct contradiction with Russ Lande. And I'd be inclined to believe Kiper over Lande. But that's just not what has happened here. Generally in the absence of directly contradictory evidence I will assign some weight to where guys rank on Mel Kiper's Big Board, because I know his habits when it comes to listening to scouts.

With Cordarrelle Patterson I've heard no conflicting evidence to suggest this is a guy that Kiper is just "winging it" with. In fact, to the contrary, I find it interesting that two former scouts in Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah have Cordarrelle going top 12 as well (Jeremiah has him #8 overall to the Bills). If there were directly contradicting evidence then that would cast doubt on Patterson's draft stock in my eyes. But there hasn't been, only supporting evidence at this point.

your pretty crafty when it comes to dodging a question. the fact of the matter is neither of these two have cited anybody... it's like espns' infamous "sources"... nobody put a name to anything, particularly in landes case, because when it comes to kiper, all I did was take your thread sentence for evidence. you talk in one thread like you personally know kiper and come off as matter of fact when you state that he takes serious what scouts tell him when compiling his lists, and now I am almost led to believe that kiper just threw damontre moore in at #2 to be bashful for everyone...

Until lande grows some grapefruits and puts a name to his accusations in regards to moore, I will only allow myself to take this story as fact about as much as I lend weight to what two "former" scouts in bucky brooks and daniel jeremiah think of cordarelle patterson. afterall, lets face it, they are former scouts for a reason.
 
your pretty crafty when it comes to dodging a question. the fact of the matter is neither of these two have cited anybody... it's like espns' infamous "sources"... nobody put a name to anything, particularly in landes case, because when it comes to kiper, all I did was take your thread sentence for evidence. you talk in one thread like you personally know kiper and come off as matter of fact when you state that he takes serious what scouts tell him when compiling his lists, and now I am almost led to believe that kiper just threw damontre moore in at #2 to be bashful for everyone...

Until lande grows some grapefruits and puts a name to his accusations in regards to moore, I will only allow myself to take this story as fact about as much as I lend weight to what two "former" scouts in bucky brooks and daniel jeremiah think of cordarelle patterson. afterall, lets face it, they are former scouts for a reason.

What you just wrote above is not at all a good argument. You've kind of regressed into some hazy, generalized, convoluted morass of accusations and fragmented lines of reasoning.

Anonymous sources are still sources. Russ Lande labeled them specifically as scouts. If you think he's directly lying, so be it. I do not.
 
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I'm sorry if there's a no .gif rule, this seemed like the perfect place to put this.
 
did a a quick internet search of some mock drafts and a couple guys who I know have had some fans on here and their mock drafts in regards to demontre moore, I found particularly interesting.

michael schottey demontre moore going #8.

Rob Rang demontre moore going #2... quote " terrorized the conference"..

to be completely forthcoming, i did find another mock that had moore 16. I will try to find it.

i think it was bleacher report... nevermind. matt miller has him going #6...

I will find it... give me a minute.
 
To be totally fair, no one knows anything now. Because I'm procrastinating, here are two notable mock drafts from last year:


  • WalterFootball.com within two days of a year from today had Reily Reiff going 6th to the Redskins, Kendall Wright 7th to the Jags, and Devon Still 12th to the Seahawks

  • Mel Kiper within three days of a year from today had Courtney Upshaw at 10, Coples at 7 and Jon Martin at 13.

Let's all agree that no one knows anything at this point. If Courtney Upshaw and Jon Martin can drop to the 2nd round, so can Damontre Moore. He could also stay up at the top of the draft. There is a preponderance of evidence indicating that either could happen. At this point though, everyone trying to predict the draft is essentially running around in circles trying to snatch out of thin air whatever pieces of evidence we can find. We know there will be a Bruce Irvin and there will be an Alfonzo Dennard. That's all we know and really we know less than that. Like I've said before, in the end one person will be right, and one person will be wrong. That's the nature of the game.
 
Well, whoever was "hoping" Damontre Moore falls to #12 overall...it wasn't me.

I think he's monstrously overrated. He's quite good when being blocked by air. Not so much when being blocked by...a human.

Haha CK I feel like damontre Moore wronged you in a past life or something.

You're old school hatin d Moore. The guy has a great first step and has put on the weight+ strength to play the run competitively.
 
he's murder when he's clean which is when he does most his damage...but when he has to beat a tackle on the edge his tools aren't anything special...i personally think he's a bit overrated also...not all that fast off the ball from a 3 point stance either
 
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