Daryl Gardener / No More Sugar Coating The DL..... | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Daryl Gardener / No More Sugar Coating The DL.....

I don't expect Bills fans to watch every Phins game. But that's where we have the advantage as to what David Bowens has brought to our DL. When Bowens was in, our pass rush was very good. He brought a lot of energy to the unit. He makes us better.

Jason Taylor is only 28. And while his sack total dipped last year, he improved in every other facet of the game. He had nearly 90 tackles. Was solid against the run. Held up and didn't miss any time. Was Johnny on the Spot when it came to fumbles, INTs, etc. IMO, Jason Taylor was the best all-around DE in football last year.

Tim Bowens is a big run-stuffer. Larry Chester is a BEAST of a run-stuffer. With those two in the middle, I really don't see anyone running up the middle on us.

Conversely, Pat Williams is all you got.
 
Time is ticking...tick-tock-tick-tock-tick-tock....

S. Adams is preparing to sign with the Bengals as we speak....ONE EXCELLENT DT GONE!!!

Who's next???......Most likey J. Evans.

Where??.....The Jets!!!!

I'm not sure who it was that said our DL is fine, but it's pissing me off more and more when I hear the fans over here say that....

It's good to be ****y at times, but at this time, with the problems we're facing at DE and DT, it's not.....

The whole left side of the DL is in question right now. PERIOD!!!

No D. Gardener, and no L. Chester. The recent bad news about both of them is very disturbing....VERY DISTURBING.

Our back ups, J. Haley and E. Grant are both basically scubs. I hope all of you remeber what happened to our run defense last year, when these two guys were all we had left....

Let me remind you......200+ rushing yards against our defense.

Who was it??....The Ravens.....THE RAVENS!!!!

A team that got destroyed by the Vikings defense (one of the worst defenses in the league last year) just one week prior to running through us like a hot knife through butter...

Still feel fine about our DL???.....

Our DL is in trouble right now, and all you guys seem to want to do, is blow it off like it's nothing.....

Well, once D. Gardener either goes down, or just wears out his welcome (which ever comes first) and the rest of the remaining solid replacements are gone by then, you'll feel different.....

This whole attitude problem that DG has shown recently is all a shock to me more than anything. But when you put that on top of the fact that he's injury trouble, you've got to address it before it's too late....

I'm praying that everything works out, but the way it looks right now, those prayers may not be answered before it's too late....

PHINZ RULE!!!!
 
Even if DG is cut, Sam Adams probably would not sign here, due to the fact that Wanne-Spiel would not pay him nearly as much as he would want, whereas the Bengals will. Josh Evans is as much of a gamble as DG. He is one violation away from suspension. If he signs here, he would be in South Florida. S. Florida+substance abuse+Josh Evans=trouble. I agree with Bodzilla here. There may indeed be a problem, but you may be getting overexcited about it. This DG talk is strictly speculation by a media source that has nothing else to report on. Same with Josh Evans. He visited but wasn't offered a contract, not even the minimum, how serious is Spielman about him? Once training camp starts, everything will be answered. If there was indeed a problem, don't you think it would have been addressed by now, especially on a potential Superbowl contender? You're making a mountain out of a mowhill my friend......
 
Blitz I have read nothing that sais Chester won't be ready for training camp. Also what makes you think Evans will be a rock in the middle of our line the guy has been suspended twice, and inches away from being kicked out of football for ever. No one here has a better understanding of DG's medical health than the Dolphin DRs, they obviously told Dave that he has a good chance of making it through this season or he wouldn't still be on the active roster. If DG has a 75% chance to play this whole season, I would rather take that than Jay Williams, Sam Adams, or Josh Evans. DG played in 8 games last season and put up almost identical numbers to what Evans posted in 16. If healthy he is an all-pro, he doesn't do it this year than cut him, but I would bet that with the preasure to perform this year he will do everything he can to be there for Miami. Those 200 yards also came with Zach nursing an injury that would have had him on the sidelines if it wasnt' the playoffs, D. Rodgers on IR, and Grant and Haley in at DT instead of Chester. It also didn't help that our wounded d was on the feild the whole game.
 
Gardner is a cancer, mark my words

ah yes, more brilliant fish fans telling me I'm stupid for criticizing your perfect DL.... i expected that.

It's true our DL isn't that good either, but at least we are improving it and have some great young players starting to emerge. And just b/c the Bills DL isn't great, doesn't mean I can't say yours isn't that good either. (takes one to know one right! lol ;) )

Also, you can't compare your current DL to that of your 1999, 2000, or even 2001 DL; sorry, but it has changed since then and not for the better.

I try to offer some constructive criticism, but god-fobid I question any part of this perfect team with no weaknesses! That is why you have done so well in the playoffs. Many posters on this board must be children in fantasy worlds!!! Get Real. At least I can admit when my team has holes and that we aren't perfect. Take a long hard look at your dolphins DL and tell me, honestly, that you think it is great. It's not easy to do. Stop being so naive and blind, admit you have some problems that you need to address on the D-line. Otherwise you are hurting your team more than me.

p.s. DG will ruin your team, you guys need to replace him like I said in my previous post. That would be one step you can take in the right direction. Your DL needs improvement and DG needs to be cut! He costs too much, is never healthy, has a bad work ethic, and his teamates hat him. If you want to improve, he must go!
 
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When healthy, Fins DL ranks in the top 2 or 3 in the NFL....even with the recent losses of Armstrong, Mixon, and Bromell. HOWEVER, therein lies the dilemma, health of the DL. Jason Taylor has greatly improved his all-around ability, especially in run-defense. One of the top DE's in the game. Bowens, Gardener, and Chester all have a variety of injury histories that do not appear to be entirely resolved. A lot of cap space is tied up in the DL. Chester is NOT a proven commodity by any stretch and the personality disorders and cont'd back problems of Gardener must worry the FO if they even bring in Josh Evans. Bowens' knees will continue to be problematic, especially at the DT position. Burnett was a decent pickup and should stabilize the LDE. Depth isn't as deep as the last couple of yrs. Thomas' was shown to be a function of the DL play and if the DL fails to tie up the OL, Thomas' effectiveness will be neutralized and teams will be able to run the ball. Once a team starts running on ya and controlling the line of scrimmage, Fins can be beat badly.....just look at the last 5 playoff losses ;)
 
Originally quoted by moulds'rocks
It's true our DL isn't that good either, but at least we are improving it and have some great young players starting to emerge.
Click to expand...

When have these great young players started to emerge? Last season they weren't there.....this season hasn't started yet, so when have you seen these great young players emerge? You are the one who is delusional.
...and no one is saying that this d-line IS great, there are concerns, but if we were happy with the D-line two weeks ago then nothing has changed that should make that any different, we signed Burnett and Chester as insurance for these types of problems,,,,what difference does it make if they play sooner or later?.....Chester WILL be ready at some point....and the DG situation will go away when camp starts and other news starts happening.
 
I'd like to see Wanny Garndner and Jimmy J all get together and have a nice chat. Gardner just doesn't like his new boss but loves Jimmy Johnson who drafted him 1st round in 1996. I think this would really help. We can all cope with getting a new boss that messes up our lives.
 
If we signed Josh Evans it would probably be to rotate on interior with Larry Chester and Tim Bowens, and probably take a few snaps away from Gardener at DT since Gardener was supposed to switch back to DT on passing downs.

That said I think its a good idea if we could somehow afford him. I'm of the mind that we can never have too many good DL and I'm not all that confident in Haley or Grant after last year. I think that should Gardener even be released or get injured, with the current lineup we would still be fine at LDE because Rob Burnett would man the position and stabilize it while David Bowens and Adewale Ogunleye come in as role players to try and make plays which both are capable of making (especially David Bowens in my opinion who I honestly believe with the right work ethic could prove to be another JT)

So really, sign Josh Evans, don't sign Josh Evans, cut Daryl Gardener, don't cut Daryl Gardener, either way our DL will be fine. Think about it in these terms. No matter what, Larry Chester is an upgrade over the Haley/Grant combo of last year, correct? Yes, he is. We still have Haley/Grant who we have NO REASON to believe will be WORST than they were last year, and we might actually have some reason to believe that they will be better if they stay healthy which they weren't last year. Tim Bowens, should probably be playing at about the same talent level barring injury. Jason Taylor, we have no reason to believe he won't be exactly what he has been the last two seasons for the Dolphins. Adewale Ogunleye and David Bowens played very little last year and now they will be playing more and we have reason to believe that BOTH will be better than last year. Together with Rob Burnett their responsibility is to play at Lorenzo Brommell's level...and does anyone think they can't?

Daryl Gardener's responsibility is to play at Kenny Mixon's level at LDE which is to say, a run stuffer with hardly any passrush abilities. Does anyone not think HE is capable of this? I think he's capable of AT LEAST that.

Then you've got Zach Thomas same as usual, Derrick Rodgers same as usual, Morlon Greenwood actually IMPROVING (think of the Morlon Greenwood we saw toward the end of the year)....

Now, throw in the fact that Bates will be including the safety in run support more often than last year. Throw in Jamar Fletcher making strides at nickel CB and Ray Green as well as the return of Trent Gamble to the lineup...

And what you've got basically is position by position the very WORST that our run defense could reasonably turn out with no luck whatsoever, is about the same as the last 8 games of 2001. The pass defense is still there, however, unless you believe that Brian Walker is unreplacable by Arturo Freeman. On the hand, with a little luck a pleasant surprise or two our defense has a reasonable chance to be FAR better than it was last year at stopping the run, on a position by position basis. Well on the flipside of that, our offense should also be better than it was in 2001 with the ascension of Chris Chambers, a possible improvement in play from James McKnight, good ole Gadsden, some OL shuffling, RICKY WILLIAMS, and NORV TURNER...

I mean if you're still extremely paranoid about the DL don't be, its a team sport with tons of positions all ruled under the hand of a single salary cap....its give and take.
 
Dolphins | Agent Looking To Patch Things Up - posted at KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com)
22:06 PT: Updating an earlier story, Chris Perkins reports for the Sun Sentinel agent Neil Schwartz is trying to reconcile any differences between the Miami Dolphins and DT Daryl Gardener concerning his workout bonus of $200,000. On Monday the Dolphins faxed their off-season workout attendance records to Schwartz. The agent said some disputed absences could have been for medical purposes. However, Schwartz added that Gardener hasn't had any recent back problems. Schwartz said this appears to be a business deal with no ulterior motive. He added he talked to the team Monday. "It wasn't adversarial or anything like that," Schwartz said. "The Dolphins said, `Neil, don't read too much into it.'"
 
Where are these reports of DG actin' a a$$ in the lockerroom! I thought the problem was him missing more than 10% of offseason conditioning! I do believe some of the fans here are getting a little ahead of themselves, with the seriousness of the present D-Line situation! Yeah, it sounds TROUBLING, depending on what you hear, and who you believe! The D-line AS WE KNOW IT, (DG,Chester,TimBo,JT) is as solid as it gets! How do we know that DG didnt have a valid reason for missing this amount of time! A reason to a player is somtimes construed as an excuse to a coach! A classic case of miscommunication! I seriously hope that Wanne and Spielman dont decide to cut DG before we see what couldve been!
Mouldsrocks, are you serious? Cut DG? Your d-line is good? JT is losing it? These statements alone should get you committed! I understand loyalty to your team, but get real, too many unknowns and unprovens! You want to say, we (the PHINFANS) are in a delusional state of being perfect, but yet I see nowhere in the thread of people saying we are invincible! If you think we are the best team in the AFC east, then just say it, dont beat around the bush, saying how much your squad has improved(without a down played), and comparing your secondary to ours and yadayadayada, just say I'll be glad when our team shows some promise like the Dolphins! Trust me, erase the Hate, you'll feel better!
 
I don't believe the Dolphins are considering cutting Gardener because he missed more than 10% of the VOLUNTARY workouts, they are just going to withhold a $200,000 workout bonus that is stipulated in the contract. Think of it this way, the dolphins made an agreement when DG signed the contract saying, we'll give you $200,000 if you attend 90% of our voluntary offseason workouts. Daryl Gardener then has a choice, attend 90% of them and get $200,000 or don't attend 90% of them and don't get $200,000. He chose not to attend 90% of them because of personal reasons and now Schwartz is trying to backpedal and say that some of them COULD have been for medical reasons even though he is having no back problems. Stuck between a rock and a hard place basically. If he says that DG missed the time cuz of medical reasons then the Dolphins are that much more likely to cut DG because he'll never make it through a full season again. If he says that DG missed the time for the reasons he did, to take it easy so that his back doesn't get out of whack and take some personal time, then its obvious that the dolphins don't owe him $200,000.

The real question in my opinion is, how does this figure into the salary cap? Was this a likely to be achieved incentive or a not likely to be achieved incentive? If its likely to be achieved and the Dolphins withhold, they may actually save 200k on the cap. If its not likely to be achieved then they just don't have to worry about counting that 200k next year. Either would be good.
 
Well here we are again ...talking about darryl gardener and his problems ...as i have stated many times here before ,DG is on the way out ...he has never performed at a 1st round pick level he is notorious for under achiveing ,and has talked WAY too much **** about how he is going to dominate the last two years .. it has become a joke .. The man has BACK PROBLEMS !!!!!! You cant play defensive line if you have back problems .. I begged for miami to let him go two years ago !!! But no we give huge contracts to a guy who cant stay healthy and live up to expectations for many reasons ..Now we almost must keep him ...He should shut his mouth about the 200,00 bonus and just show up and play ..not talk about hes going to the probowl !!! Im so tired of his in consistant behavior that i want him gone!!!Shut up or leave darryl !! Im also concerned about L chester ..he has not looked good and practiced little his broken leg is a reason for concern ...I am praying haley and or grant step up and have high hope that david bowens and A. ogunleye can contribute alot more ... As it stand now ..no real choice but to keep dg and hope that he can actually play all year . I am a realist and find it confusing that so many say its not that big a deal..it is . Anyone who doesnt think so imho is ignoring the truth Jason taylor is all we have .. if he goes ..say goodbye to the miami d line .
 
I beleive roster and workout bonuses are considered likely-to-be-acheived. Meaning that if the Dolphins were to withhold the bonus they would have an extra $200,000 THIS year to play with. I really don't think they would be making that big of a deal about it otherwise.

I agree with those of you that are stating we are making WAY too big a deal out of this. Darryl says he's healthy, his agent says he's healthy, and we have heard NOTHING from the Dolphins on this matter. All we have heard definitely is that the Dolphins are considering withholding a Bonus. Don't you think if the Dolphins were planning on cutting him, they would just do it... and not worry about letting Gardener know they weren't going to pay him the bonus?? To me, the fact they are discussing this with him and his agent is even more proof that they are planning on keeping him.

On top of that... it would make no sense for the Dolphins to cut Gardener this year (unless he was detrimental to team chemistry, but I beleive that situation is being overblown.) From my calculations, it would COST the Dolphins $30,000 to release Gardener this year. So, although that is not a big deal if we HAVE to release him. It would not be smart to do so. Even if he is healthy for only 8 games this season, that is 8 games being played with one of the best defensive lineman in the game. It seems many of you are forgetting about that part. What I see playing out is... the Dolphins withhold the bonus, use it to sign ANOTHER cheap insurance policy, and keep Gardener and see how things play out. If he succeeds GREAT, if not, he will be cut NEXT offseason (after June 1st) When the Dolphins would see a SIGNIFICANT cap savings (Roughly $3.7million, or $1.7million before June 1st.)

NOTE: These numbers are based on DG's original contract including an $8 million signing bonus, which I beleive is about right. But, his bonus numbers were never released... so the savings could be more if the bonus was less, and the savings could be less ig the bonus was more. Only the Dolphins' front office knows though.
 
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