Davone Bess is a Playmaker | Page 10 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Davone Bess is a Playmaker

You want a stat that directly measure win probability added.
Yes, I do. It's a stat that measures clutch play, which is what a playmaker is in my opinion, a player who makes plays in clutch situations.

The premise of the thread is that Bess is a playmaker, a clutch player, a player who makes plays that give his team a better chance of winning. It's only when that premise is broadened by poor understandings and an army of straw men that we get these long, drawn out debates that are largely irrelevant to the original point.

The original point is valid. The validity of the ones other people are spinning off of it tagentially I have no idea about, nor do I care.
 
I've read through 0/14 pages of this thread and calculated the probability of it having any useful information as 3.825633%, most of which lies in this post. Bess is a solid receiving option, but no where near being a playmaker. He's a dime-a-dozen possession receiver who is reliable, but easily replaceable. That is not a playmaker.

"Oh ****! Who's got Bess?! Who's got Bess?!?!" said no DB ever.

Maybe that's why Bess was so wide open against Seattle for that 25 yarder that put Miami in field goal range late in the 4th quarter?
 
Oh the Internet. Where pseudo-intellectuals gain delusions of grandeur and flaunt their self importance. Where they hear only what they want to hear. Great sources of amusement for yours truly.
 
Maybe that's why Bess was so wide open against Seattle for that 25 yarder that put Miami in field goal range late in the 4th quarter?

At least we can count on teams occasionally forgetting he's even on the field. :lol:

I like him for what he is, as I noted, but won't label him what he isn't through aqua and coral (?) colored glasses.
 
Yes, I do. It's a stat that measures clutch play, which is what a playmaker is in my opinion, a player who makes plays in clutch situations.

The premise of the thread is that Bess is a playmaker, a clutch player, a player who makes plays that give his team a better chance of winning. It's only when that premise is broadened by poor understandings and an army of straw men that we get these long, drawn out debates that are largely irrelevant to the original point.

The original point is valid. The validity of the ones other people are spinning off of it tagentially I have no idea about, nor do I care.

The stat I provided measures clutch play. Did you read the explanation of the stat I put in spoilers? I happen to think both stats show results that are clearly flawed and incorrect, but if youre going to accept yours as fact, how if the one I linked to any less of a fact? It measures exactly what you want.
 
The stat I provided measures clutch play. Did you read the explanation of the stat I put in spoilers? I happen to think both stats show results that are clearly flawed and incorrect, but if youre going to accept yours as fact, how if the one I linked to any less of a fact? It measures exactly what you want.

He can't accept that statistic because it doesn't fit the conclusion to which he has already leaped.
 
This still doesn't top that thread that the Dolphins were the 2nd best drafting team of the past 5 years...:lol:
 
This still doesn't top that thread that the Dolphins were the 2nd best drafting team of the past 5 years...:lol:


Oh yeah. Lol. Seriously, we shouldn't so openly mock him and cause him to scamper away. His threads would definitely add some needed levity to this silly season.
 
Man davone bess is a play maker. He makes plays. Especially when needed. He had been the only one making plays on our team as a wide receiver for awhile now since hartline decided to show. so I disagree with those who think 1. Bess isn't a weapon and 2. He isn't a playmaker. He has the best hands on the team and runs the best routes. He gets the bess seperation he's always open and is sure money on 3rd downs. How quickly we forget.
 
Ironically, everything being said about Bess in this thread was argued about Wes Welker when he was going to the Patriots. Everyone was thrilled to let him go despite his work ethic and clutch plays because his stats in Miami included only one touchdown. A small minority of us felt it was a big mistake to let him go and knew he was under appreciated and undervalued. I think the minority called it right. I believe the same thing is true about Bess.

Welker didn't become a different player overnight, he just finally had a real coach, gameplan and QB. Bess has labored under Sparano, Henne, Moore and some of the worst game plans ever during the bulk of his career and has been clutch on 3rd down with a 10.7 yard average. Definitely not glamorous, but the same offense couldn't make Brandon Marshal look decent.

Trading Bess won't kill the team, but every time Luck finds a way to move the chains with him on fourth and long it will suck to remember he was a better weapon than we gave him credit for in Miami.

Give Bess another season with complementary weapons on offense, a real QB and respectable gameplan and I believe he will show up big...certainly bigger than any no-name 4th round pick this front office will end up cutting within three seasons.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

This is a very good post.
Wes Welker was not a playmaker when he was with us. As a matter of fact most of stats were inferior to Bess' stats. Welker became a playmaker because NE put him into the right system: QB, additional receivers which took coverage away, a superior OL.

If you compare Welker's stats (in his last year with us) with Bess' stats from last year you will be utterly surprised.

Bess played 3 games less (13) than Welker in 06/07:
Average Yards per catch: Bess 12.8 Welker 10.5
Average Yards per game: Bess 60 Welker 43
Longest catch: Bess 39 Welker 38
Catches for 1st downs: Bess 38 Welker 33
TDs: Bess 1 Welker 1
Yards after the catch: Bess 4.4 Welker 4.3
Total Yards: Bess 778 Welker 687

These numbers for Welker was worth something to the Patriots and they turned Welker into a TD and yardage machine. It is easy to sit here as an arm chair QB and say "oh there are so many more and better receivers out there". Sure there are but it was the same thing said about Welker in 2007. I hear all types of excuses for Tannehill. Oh how we need a deep threat and yada yada yada. A slot receivers can only be as good as the game plan, the QB and the surrounding talent.

I find it hilarious that the same people revel in Hilton and are using an Indy/Miami comparison as an excuse for Tannehill. Hey, I am going to use the same excuse as most of you used when Tannehill was compared to Luck. Reggie Wayne.
If you take Wayne away does any of you really think that Hilton and Luck would have been as equally successful as they were? If your answer is yes then I shall turn that around: what happened to Tannehill in 2012 then?

Bess is far away from being a playmaker but I find it absolutely absurd to claim a totally talentless offense to make an excuse for one player yet throw one of our most consistent players over the last few years under the bus because of some wet dreams for a college guy who has has some highlite films against defensive players who will never see the inside of an NFL Stadium unless they buy a ticket.

I like to see how Tannehill performs next year with Wallace, Gibbons and Keller as passing weapons. I give the same benefit of doubt to Bess and Hartline to see how they perform when the attention in the passing game is given to two other receivers.
Welker was already a more explosive player in Miami than Bess was ever going to be. Welker had a history of taking kickoffs back for TD's before he left Miami.

You won't see any 2nd round tenders for Davone Bess.

Was not and did not. See my numbers above and Welker had in three years with us only 1 TD kickoff return. That was in his first year when he was exclusively on special teams.
 
Actually Bess and Welker are similar players except when it comes to speed. But that makes all the difference. Bess is just too slow to ever be a playmaker. He's a solid football player that happens to be replaceable. If you can get solid compensation for him, or replace him with a cheaper, more talented rookie you do it.

Can you people actually find a decent reason to just trash Bess? It is one thing to doubt that he is a playmaker but to say Bess is slower than Welker in an attempt to make a case...:bobdole:
Welkers 40 dash is 4.65
Bess 40 dash is 4.64
 
The stat I provided measures clutch play. Did you read the explanation of the stat I put in spoilers? I happen to think both stats show results that are clearly flawed and incorrect, but if youre going to accept yours as fact, how if the one I linked to any less of a fact? It measures exactly what you want.
The measure is derived via a comparison with what the average player does on a given play. It isn't based on how much a play increases the team's probability of winning.
 
The measure is derived via a comparison with what the average player does on a given play. It isn't based on how much a play increases the team's probability of winning.

Correct. Its not exactly your stat therefore its wrong. I get it. But the fact remains that it takes into account the very same situations you tout your stat as considering. My stat is no better or worse than yours. Yours just suits your opinion better, so youre riding with it as indisputable fact some hell or high water. Simply glancing at the list should immediately tell you what a crock that stat is as a player evaluation tool.
 
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