Devils Advocate

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dajesus, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

    Joined:
    Dec 2001
    Messages:
    4,197
    Likes Received:
    311
    Trophy Points:
    83
    We are 4-4, same as last year, our QB just played his best game as a Dolphin, we get much needed help at G, and safety, is there any reason to give this team the benefit of doubt we gave last years team? know it’s hard after a loss, but if you take away 5 holding calls last week and we would have had a great offenseive performance. I’m not optimistic, like most here, but it was worse after we were 1-4 last season.
     
    Digital and Ray R like this.
  2. josephreese

    josephreese Since '76

    Joined:
    Apr 2005
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I'll be cheering them on.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  3. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 2017
    Messages:
    1,534
    Likes Received:
    791
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Honestly I don't have much hope for this season, but that's the beauty of football.... Things can change quickly week to week. If they somehow manage a prime time win in Carolina on Monday night, then you've got to give them a shot. A 4-3 finish after that gets us to 9-7. Not at all likely, but possible.
     
  4. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2002
    Messages:
    11,751
    Likes Received:
    512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't have much hope either. However, Cam has been hit or miss this season so we could get a much needed win on Monday. We have what appears to be an underwhelming Bucs team, a quarterback-less Broncos team and a Bills team that has a reputation for folding when the going gets tough 2 times. I do not rule us our on winning any of those games. I still believe in the coach but do doubt the talent. Hopefully we just have no more major embarrassments. Unfortunately as a Dolphins fan that is an accomplishment.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  5. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Sep 2011
    Messages:
    24,846
    Likes Received:
    2,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Pros: Coach is un-dumbing down the offense, defense's injury situation isn't as bad as last year, actually getting some production from our TEs and backs in the passing game now

    Cons: Best player on our OL just went out for the year, our power rusher is Kenyan Drake, we had a big play QB in 2016 and we don't in 2017, Suh is hurt


    I still feel like we can pull out a 9-7 or even 10-6 finish if some things fall our way. There are some areas where we're better off than we were in 2016, but others where we're a lot worse off. We won some games in 2016 off of big plays, and we're looking a lot less likely to have big plays in the passing game right now with the way Cutler is throwing the ball.

    I don't disagree with those who say we are going to finish 7-9, but I'm not ready to count this team out just yet after what I saw last season.
     
  6. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 2006
    Messages:
    7,515
    Likes Received:
    763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, we need to fix:

    - fewest Points scored in league
    - fourth worst points differential in league

    Then we can talk about being optimistic.
     
    Digital and joenhre like this.
  7. artdnj

    artdnj Time is Now Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 2004
    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    376
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Lets see if we show up on Monday, could catapult us in either direction. I think we finish in 4th place.
     
  8. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    83
    lol way to go out on a limb there. I happen to agree by the way.
     
  9. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

    Joined:
    Dec 2001
    Messages:
    4,197
    Likes Received:
    311
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I’m so mad about Monday’s game. I planned a trip to Charlotte to see my sister when the schedule came to cordinate with the Panthers game. I’m here now, and have decided not to buy tickets to the game for obvious reasons. If we do pull off the victory I’ll be elated we won, but pissed I didn’t go. Going to @NYJ was too painfull this year.
     
  10. jessejames123

    jessejames123 Scout Team

    Joined:
    May 2004
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    28
    We are getting Larsen (who knows IF he will actually play well, we havent seen him play really) BUT losing James for quite awhile.

    QB had his best game of season and they were all 5yd passes to the RB's with a Devante superman grab...

    Efficient but he didnt really do anything.

    D is too inconsistent, makes it easy for opposing teams to convert 3rd and longs.. I think the Run D is improved thus far though.
     
  11. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    May 2004
    Messages:
    11,728
    Likes Received:
    426
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Well, I am a gluten for punishment, so I will yet again this Monday be cheering for them to show us something while taking the game from the Panthers in their home on Primetime.
     
    Ray R and artdnj like this.
  12. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 2004
    Messages:
    16,408
    Likes Received:
    423
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Yes....we blew that game but played much better...this next game will be interesting.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  13. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

    Joined:
    Jul 2008
    Messages:
    52,375
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Trophy Points:
    113
    see what kind of mood there is after Carolina gets done smashing us Monday night
     
  14. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    16,574
    Likes Received:
    847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    NO, the team does NOT deserve the benefit of the doubt. Last year and this are two different things. Last year we beat a bunch of teams with losing records and our RB went crazy while our QB was steady. Now we have no real starting RB, Tannehill is not playing and our defense is trending down. Counting on Larsen who's nothing but a back up is foolish and now we have another hole at RT. We run 5 plays on offense and even my wife knows what play is coming and even my cat Soprano can't believe the other team's QB has all day to throw the football. And to top it all up, we're playing 6 teams with winning records out of 8 games but here's the good/bad news. We'll win one or two more than we're supposed to just so that we can draft lower like every year

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  15. BenchFiedler

    BenchFiedler Undrafted Pro-Bowler

    Joined:
    Aug 2004
    Messages:
    3,051
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I got a bad feeling about this game. I think the Dolphins will get an old school type of a$$ whooping!!!
     
  16. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    83
    We are not beating the Panthers expect that a$$ whooping.
     
  17. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2017
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    63

    Yes -- this year's pass defense is markedly worse, and the help at safety won't address that because it isn't comprised of an Earl Thomas-like player who has downfield pass coverage skills.

    With the kind of QB play this team gets on a regular basis (last Sunday night was an anomaly), the pass defense would have to be among the league's best three or so to overcome it, and instead the pass defense is among the league's worst three.

    The combination of a poor pass offense and a poor pass defense spells doom. The team has played like a team that would be expected to finish 3-13/4-12, based on how the league has functioned since 2004.

    Two of the four wins thus far are unexpected. Those won't occur regularly.
     
  18. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

    Joined:
    Dec 2001
    Messages:
    4,197
    Likes Received:
    311
    Trophy Points:
    83
    It’s crazy that we are .500, and how pessimistic we are collectively. I have had more hope in this team in the past while them having a losing record than I do this year. That being said I think this Monday can completely change the attitude here. If we go on the road and snatch a victory vs the 6-3 panthers(the most beatable 6-3 team in the nfl) and then are coming home to play The Fitzpatrick lead lowly bucs, our whole season changes. Fins up!
     
    TannDaMan17, fishfanmiami and Ray R like this.
  19. Marino420TD

    Marino420TD Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 2005
    Messages:
    951
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    We are still at .500, so in the NFL there is hope. The real key is how much (or how little) help TJ and Larsen can provide. Nate Allen wasn't anything special, but our pass defense seemed to tank once he got injured. I need to see how we look we these 2 players, before throwing in the towel on the season.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  20. Ray R

    Ray R Active Member

    Joined:
    May 2017
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    33
    A quote from Thomas Edison:

    "Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up"

    I don't see Coach Gase giving up. Unfortunately that is not true for some of our posters.
     
    PhishyPhishy, Digital and Soca casual like this.
  21. Avigatorx

    Avigatorx Sec. 107 Row 2

    Joined:
    Mar 2006
    Messages:
    3,456
    Likes Received:
    645
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think Cam Newton gets hurt trying to run the ball in this one.
     
  22. daryl

    daryl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2007
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    28
    The pessimism is based on how they've achieved their 4-4 record. The four wins look like smoke and mirrors and the four losses were mostly non-competitive. Its why the tired quote of "you are who your record says you are" is overrated. Sometimes you aren't who your record says you are. The Dolphins just don't pass the smell test. But a win Monday turns a "bad 4-4" into an "acceptable 5-4."
     
  23. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 2005
    Messages:
    6,216
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Maybe it's the fan in me, but I have a good feeling about the Carolina game. On paper, this should be a fairly easy win for the Panthers. As we know, though, the game isn't played on paper and the Dolphins haven't had that complete game yet. They are due.

    The offense looked pretty good against the Raiders with the running backs catching the ball well out of the backfield and Cutler being very accurate in the short game. That was something that was missing with Ajayi. I know Oakland's defense is a far cry from Carolina's, but maybe the team catches a break, gets better field position etc. You just never know.

    If Miami can somehow beat Carolina and Tampa Bay, the season may end up being better than expected. Right now, it's hard to see many more wins on the schedule but there's still time for players to emerge, the energy to change and something positive to happen.
     
    Digital and Ray R like this.
  24. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    16,574
    Likes Received:
    847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The biggest problem with our secondary is the lack of a pass rush from our front 4. It has been inconsistent all year long and hence, everyone seems to always be open while the QB has all day to pass. It all starts up front on both sides of the ball and we're losing on both

    Ozzy rules!!
     
    SF Dolphin Fan likes this.
  25. mwestberry

    mwestberry Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2012
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    28
    This team is out coached and out played every week… Even the wins were not impressive... I love the optimism but it ain't happening this year guys ....those of you who are looking at the win loss record as some sort of motivation may not be watching the games
     
    joenhre likes this.
  26. Hooligan

    Hooligan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2004
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    28
    This game has about the same feel as the Atlanta game. Doom and gloom, little hope. I expect a win.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  27. Tiko377

    Tiko377 A True Fan

    Joined:
    Aug 2009
    Messages:
    3,514
    Likes Received:
    152
    Trophy Points:
    63
    this is a very winnable game.

    with that 4/4 record of last year we did have Tannehill playing on a upswing & getting momentum tho + we had our LT & RT that played we are just put our RT on IR.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  28. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

    Joined:
    May 2005
    Messages:
    6,216
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I agree. However, the team looks really bad last year at 1-4. Even getting to 10-6 it wasn't always impressive, but Miami found ways to win. It's been a little similar this year.

    I'm not expecting a turnaround as 5-11 or 6-10 seems about right for this team. But you never know.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  29. Digital

    Digital Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Messages:
    5,488
    Likes Received:
    996
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Awesome post Dejesus!

    I must admit I have less faith than last year. Last year there was a reason for the poor play, learning new systems, and we had started trending up. By his year we are trending down and have plenty of internal strife with our OL coach issue and throwing away one of our most talented players, Ajayi.

    Gase isn't making an example out of Ajayi, he is sacrificing him. That only happens when there is a serious problem in the locker room. And given how much of an apologist Gase has been about our failsauce OL, I'm discouraged greatly for the future.

    But enough pessimism. Your post makes a great point. We are still in a good spot to contend for a wildcard slot. Those 5 holding calls were mostly tickytack stuff, and the refs did make a difference in that close game. We can't complain, because we have won 4 out of 5 close games, but it is worth noting. Also worth noting we were 4-0 in close games with Ajayi, and we are 0-1 in close games without him. We no longer can grind teams down and win in the 4th quarter. From now on we are going to have to outplay them or win the turnover battle. No other way forward.

    But _IF_ we can miraculously come up with an improved OL playing 2nd stringers then the pieces are in this team to field a good defense and complement it with scoring from the offense.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  30. BSQ

    BSQ Scout Team

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Messages:
    2,036
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The thing that bothers me the most about dumping Ajayi is that this is another step away from being a physical team and a step towards the dreaded finesse team that we all don't really like that much. The brand of Football Gase is bringing here now will be pass, pass, screen, draw, pass etc. I like a balanced offense, I actually prefer running to passing, unless I'm watching Marino. Digital nailed it we he said we can't grind teams down in the 4th quarter any more. That's the way we won many of our games last year, who's going to be the closer now? Cutler? God Help Us.
     
    Agua likes this.
  31. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    16,574
    Likes Received:
    847
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Keep on mind thought that last year we beat a bunch of teams with losing records. Of the next 8 games we have 6 against teams with winning records

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  32. isaacjunk

    isaacjunk FinHeaven VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 2006
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    There's a concept called regression to the mean, if you're getting lucky repeatedly eventually things will go back to average. For most of the NFL, if you are getting outscored over the course of a season, you're going to have a losing record. Last year (and through most of this year), we pulled out miraculous close win after another to get to a winning record. So smart money says we cannot keep doing this.

    But perhaps there really is something more than luck, and through a combo of Gase's game management and instilled culture, there is actually a real trait there. To me seeing them pull off another 3-4 close wins without losing more than say 1 would be testament to something real and rare being there, which would be a valuable building block for coming years and worth watching even if we end up missing the playoffs.
     
    <O> and Ray R like this.
  33. Gsmack_42

    Gsmack_42 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    43
    It will be 4 soon as the bills are starting there mid season collapse.
     
  34. Gsmack_42

    Gsmack_42 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2009
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    146
    Trophy Points:
    43
    12 in a row wasn’t good enough,know he needs to win 3 out of th next 4.
     
  35. ohall

    ohall A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.

    Joined:
    Jan 2002
    Messages:
    28,339
    Likes Received:
    136
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I have no idea what is going to happen the rest of the season. I can't say I'm overly optimistic, but I'm all in with Gase.
     
  36. Ray R

    Ray R Active Member

    Joined:
    May 2017
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Considering your poor opinion of our offensive line, wouldn't 2nd stringers be an improvement?
     
    Digital likes this.
  37. Ray R

    Ray R Active Member

    Joined:
    May 2017
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Maybe that's because they haven't played us yet!
     
  38. <O>

    <O> Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2017
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    63

    And when the team is getting shut out at 25 times the expected rate through seven games, there could be a negative trait alongside that one.

    They may have more than one trait. 1) winning close games more often than expected, 2) losing in an embarrassing manner more often than expected, and 3) winning in a convincing manner less often than expected.

    That isn't a good combo. Certainly the great teams don't have that combination of traits.
     
  39. Digital

    Digital Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Messages:
    5,488
    Likes Received:
    996
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Absolutely great quote Ray. Perfectly fits us now.
     
    Ray R likes this.
  40. Digital

    Digital Starter

    Joined:
    Feb 2008
    Messages:
    5,488
    Likes Received:
    996
    Trophy Points:
    113
    TJ McDonald, Ndamakong Suh, William Hayes, AWOL Timmons, and Rey Maualuga, yeah, Newton is definitely thinking about his health this week.
     

Share This Page