Did Charles Harris have a successful rookie season?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by number1fin, Jan 11, 2018 at 9:00 PM.

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Did Charles Harris have a successful rookie season?

  1. Yes

    42.7%
  2. No

    57.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth The North Remembers Finheaven VIP

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    Can you give me any specific examples, I watch most of the games and I didn't notice anything like that.
     
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  2. TannDaMan17

    TannDaMan17 Well-Known Member

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    With Wake that missed sack on Tyrod, showed he's officially over the hill. If he made that play, the entire game changes, 7 points right there. Harris I can't remember specifically, he just doesn't make an impact. There were definitely times where he could have contained the QB better, or fought harder for a sack but just didn't (doesn't play like his hair is on fire). He doesn't have the look of a special player, but he is still very young and athletic, so hopefully he at least turns out decent. With Wake when he first showed up in Miami, you could tell there was something special about him, but that time has passed.

    Here is the video of the critical missed sack by Wake:
    .
    It's only 1 play (about 25 seconds in) but it was huge. Harris stopped moving on this play to watch Wake miss the tackle, had he never stopped moving, he would have been able to contain/tackle Tyrod. On a play this critical, I don't get why a defensive end would stop attacking the QB, and lose the edge with so much time available, just lazy. He just spins and then stands there lol, instead of finishing his pursuit or having the awareness to contain Tyrod. Just 1 play, but that's how he plays and why he doesn't put up stats. This play killed me and our season imo.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 11:16 AM
  3. 1 dol fan

    1 dol fan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I did notice at least twice that QBs were bouncing off our DLineman’s sack. I thought one of the times it was due to the Dwight Freeney-styled sack-fumble takedown. Probably was Wake both times but those hurt. Our guy got there and they still made a play. It’s not fair!
     
  4. vagrantprodigy

    vagrantprodigy A True Fan

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    I didn't like the pick then, and I don't now. I barely even noticed him all season.
     
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  5. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I had a hard deciding on this, to the point of thinking of voting yes and no, but in the end, I went with yes.

    No matter what, the 1st year is when you learn, and begin to get get comfortable playing in the NFL, where even the weakest talent was told in college. Harris also did come on a bit in the end, and though he did not get enough sacks, did show a good amount of pressure, and did have plays he made taken away because of penalty.
     
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  6. ANUFan

    ANUFan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The draft! What a crap shoot!
     
  7. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer Tape Guys vs Analytics Guys Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Voted no. I thought Harris showed some good things as far as being a young player that is going to develop, and looks like he will be an effective starter for us in the future.

    BUT, 2 sacks from a guy you drafted in the first round to be a pass rush specialist just isn't enough production. I can't call that successful.
     
  8. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    Carl Lawson was probably among the best with 8.5 sacks and he was taken in the 4th round (116 OA). He played 4-3 SLB.
    Tak McKinley played 4-3 SDE and had 6 sacks (26th OA)
    TJ Watt, 3-4 WOLB with 7 sacks (30th overall)
    Taco Charlton (28th OA) 3 sacks as 4-3 WDE
    Derek Barnett 5 sacks 4-3 SDE (14th OA)

    Harris flashed and has a great attitude. He will get better in year two but it's still a projection. It would be tough to pass up a premier edge rusher based on what Harris did in 2017 but we also have a need on the strong side.
     
  9. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    Did the future HOF LT have a good second year? Anyone confident that he was worth the 13th pick?
     
  10. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro Finheaven VIP

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    No any first round pick who doesn't completely dominate and show they are the best of all time at their position is not a success. Unless they are a QB who can suck as a rookie but be seen by fans as playing pretty well.
     
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  11. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Why are people saying too early to tell? The question was......"did he have a successful season"?........the season already ended so how can it be "too soon to tell"
    No he didn't is the only possible answer to the question

    Now if the question was....."is he a bust"?.....then ok, it's too soon to tell. I was ok with the pick at the time but I don't mind to admit when I'm wrong. So far it seems I could be. By biggest worry at the time was that he was not fast enough (4.8) and so far I've seen plenty of times where he was just a 1/2 second late to the QB. Normally guys don't get any faster after they get to the NFL so we might be stuck with yet another average guy. What he has going for him is a good attitude and he's a hard worker so that helps but will he be elite? At this point I'd have to say no

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  12. Tiko377

    Tiko377 A True Fan

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    I liked what i saw from him...he was double teamed as a rookie in many plays. he was always around the QB even if he didn't get the sack.
     
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  13. Irishfinfan1

    Irishfinfan1 Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Tay, rookie season is all about developing and improving with the aim of making the jump in your 2nd year. I think he has a chance to be very good for us.
     
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  14. maralieus

    maralieus Lets get those balls deep!!

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    I like him personally. I think he is perfect for what we need. We need de's that can get pressure sure, but they need to be good or great at setting the edge in the run game and reading all the new crazy **** that gets thrown at them like run/pass options and screen passes. I think harris showed promise even if the stats didnt show it.

    Edit: whens the last time the pats had a dominant pass rusher?
     
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  15. Decleater

    Decleater Rookie

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    I think you are confusing #90 with #93. No DC in the league thought yeah we better double Harris, and leave Wake and Suh 1v1. Answer to thread is no, should have drafted Watt no brainer.
     
  16. Michigan Mike

    Michigan Mike FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    It's funny that some people want Miami to take a QB with the 11th pick and then let him sit on the bench and learn the system for a year to see if RT will come back as strong as he was playing before the injury but they want Harris to be an automatic Pro Bowler in his first year. You can't make everyone happy I guess.
     
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  17. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    QB is the only position you draft a QB and he can sit for a year or two and even that doesn't happen like it used to. When you draft a DE in round one you expect him to be a starter or at least a big contributor. Harris was neither and this is from someone who was ok with the pick at the time with some reservations. Sadly those reservations proved to be true. He doesn't play the run well because he's going up field all the time and even tho he did that he only had two sacks. He's a hard worker and he plays all out but his lack speed imo might not allow him to be the player we were all hoping he could be. Of course I hope I'm wrong but he seems to be yet another 1st round pick from our FO that's not turning out as we had hoped.

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  18. NBP81

    NBP81 Yippi ka yay mother******! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I voted yes! It was fine relative to what I expected. Still a very young player, and I expect his production to go up next season. One thing to keep in mind... It was a very bad year to be a pass rushing specialist on the Fins this season. I mean, it feels like we've played with a lead for like 5 minutes, for the entire 16 weeks...
     
  19. Michael Scott

    Michael Scott A True Fan

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    He has never in his entire career been more than an average football player.

    This year he was below average and clearly the fourth best DE on the roster.
     
  20. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I voted "No" although my vote certainly does not reflect the hopefulness I have for Harris going forward based on his improvement over the season. I just expected more impact throughout the season and was jealous of some of the other rookies we passed including Watt.
     
  21. TannDaMan17

    TannDaMan17 Well-Known Member

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    Due to Wake's age, he is now the best athlete of all of our defensive ends. Andre is the prototype 4-3 defensive end with his size and speed. I hope you're right about Harris and maybe I am being too hard on his rookie season, but I would have liked to see him make more plays with all of the opportunities that he got this year, he made very few. At least Andre had some injuries to blame his s***** season on, I was just really disappointed with the whole group tbh, especially after investing that first...

    http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachp...phins-think-andre-branchs-production-is-down/
     
  22. dolfan91

    dolfan91 Starter Donator

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    There are a lot of things to like about Charles Harris. But his production in Year 1 was not one of them. I still remain hopeful, albeit very skeptical of Harris moving forward. That 4.82 time, sticks out like a sore thumb. Gil Brant is adamant about DE’s needing to run better than a 4.8 to be successful in the NFL. The reason for skepticism is within Charles Harris’ numbers, he didn’t ace anything, that would indicate he’d be successful at the NFL level. And he was pedestrian in Year 1. I’m not sure he’ll ever be more than a rotational guy, who almost gets to the QB more then he actually does. The Miami Dolphins need more than an Almost DE?
     
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  23. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    All DEs 'almost' get to the QB more than they GET there.
     
  24. BobDole

    BobDole Suck it Trebek

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    I didn't love the player coming out and his combine was an orphanage fire, so I didn't have a ton of expectations for him in Miami ... and I was still disappointed on how much of a non factor he was. He was giving it everything he had too. Super raw coming out so if he develops some elite hand technique I see his ceiling as David Bowens.
     
  25. levv151

    levv151 Scout Team

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    people are brutal...I would say yes, not from a production standpoint but from a lesson standpoint and from what we saw out of him when the light went on...mark my words, no one will be saying this about him after next season...
     
  26. rudys119

    rudys119 Starter

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    I say no, if he was a 2nd or 3rd rounder than it would have been a yes. Even if we were a team like the patriots where we can develop people than sure. But where our team is at we need our 1st round draft picks to contribute. Hell Tankersly had a more succesful season. If our 3rd rounder has a bigger impact than our 1st rounder than I would not consider it a succesful season for Harris. Still think he can be good just wasnt a succesful 1st year.
     
  27. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I guess is sad how the standard for this team has gone so low that we have people thinking Harris's rookie year was a success because he played in all 16 games. I'm rooting for the kid to do well because he's on our team and he plays hard but he had two sacks and 19 tackles in 16 games. If that's success then is no wonder we haven't won a super bowl in 44 years but then again there are people on here who think Branch deserved the contract he got....lol

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  28. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    I would have given it to Lawson at the half way point but down the stretch every time I saw atl tank was bringing it.

    I can tell ya one thing the falcons are stoked with that pick
     
  29. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    No failed drug tests or talking three years to recover from rotator cuff is a win in our book lol
     
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  30. mrhankey81701

    mrhankey81701 A True Fan

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    I'm just tired with this franchise's obsession with undersized defensive ends.
     
  31. Anvil35

    Anvil35 Leave Users Titles Alone!! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The question wasnt if he was great. The question was if he was successful. I thought it was a successful season, especially the last couple of games. He developed and improved throughout the year. Again, were you better at your job the first year or the fifth...?
     
  32. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    Don’t really contribute? That’s a bit of hyperbole
    His stats weren’t what many of us had hoped for, however he often beat his man and got pressure that resulted in others getting sacks or QBs getting flushed out of the pocket and making errant, hurried throws.
     
  33. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Correct. First, MOST R1 rookies aren't amazing. Second, 'average' isn't bad. There are some who think less than amazing is a bad pick
     
  34. Manning

    Manning Scout Team

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    I don't understand why ppl keep throughing his 40 time out there. He's a DE who will never run 40 yards. I'm sure for positions like that there has to be more emphasis on other drills? The word coming out was that he had a very explosive first step which is a lot more of a factor imo
     
  35. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    The reason for the 40 times is about closing speed. He missed several sacks this year because he was just a little late. That goes hand on hand with him not being fast enough. One of the best GM's ever talked about him before the draft and he said that normally guys that run 4.8 don't become great players at that position in the NFL.

    In college that first step looked fast because he was going up against college OT's and many of those were slow but in the NFL those LT's will not get beat as easy. You have to be faster than he is or have some amazing moves and hands. In his first year he didn't show that but we'll see what happens in his second year

    Ozzy rules!!
     
  36. phinfan40353

    phinfan40353 Scout Team

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    When you have to defend 1st Rounders as needing time to develop, then apparently no one understands the criteria for a 1st Rounder.

    "1st Rounders" needing time are called "Projects". Those are drafted after the 2nd round.
     
  37. Lovethefish

    Lovethefish Well-Known Member

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    He has some upside in growth and technique which will certainly help. Also consider an NFL offseason with vets like Wake can only help the kid
     
  38. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Well-Known Member

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    Yes, in a no way...
     
  39. Manning

    Manning Scout Team

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    Every player misses sacks cause there a little late but thanks for the info. And I'm sure that GM knows a whole lot more football then I do but I just don't see how 40 time matters for that position. Also I'm sure 2 guys can run an exact 40 time and the speed be distributed differently. Meaning one guy can can be faster the first 20 yards and another guy may pick up more speed towards the end but what do I know.
    Also I wonder what someone like Wakes 40 time was. Just curious
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 9:44 PM
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  40. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I agree that some are faster the first 10 yards and some can keep going fast longer. I'm just telling you why the big deal is about the 40. Chances are that most DE's that have better 40 times also have better 10 yards and the 3 cones but I don't know what everyone ran for sure. Yes everyone will miss a sack from time to time because they're late. At this point what we have is what we saw his rookie year and college. That quick first step that worked in college didn't work in the NFL this season. We'll see what happens next season. Like I've said before, he works and plays hard so that helps.

    Ozzy rules!!
     

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