Did the light go on for Harris last night?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CONVIGLIONUS, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders A True Fan

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    Stating that we disagree is pointless, nobody is acting like they won anything, but the fact still remains your opinions are not based on observing the history of the NFL since you can't provide any examples; you just created an opinion that was convenient and favorable for a dolphin fan.
     
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  2. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'm coming for you. Give me a few.
     
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  3. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Wait. How does Wade Phillips tenure with Denver in '15 not qualify as an appropriate answer here? They jumped from 16 to 4 with just about the same roster.
     
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  4. Bowzer

    Bowzer Active Member

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    Name one defensive end not named Joey Bosa that was great in their first year. There is a learning curve. He looks fine to me.
     
  5. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero Donator

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    Whats an ED?
     
  6. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders A True Fan

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    I guess based on the terms I described that would be one, so I guess you got me. I would still stay Denver had more talent than we do and moving up 12 spots in ranking is to be expected if Wade Phillips is running that ship.
     
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  8. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Chandler Jones
     
  9. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders A True Fan

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    Jevon Kearse, Von Miller, Demacus Ware,Shawn Merriman and Clay Matthews. Outside Linebackers in 3-4 rush the passer.
     
  10. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    I didn't know much about him until the draft, but my preference for a pass rushing DE are the tall, rangy types only because the longer arms allow them to more easily disengage and also bat down balls when they can't get to the QB.
    Doug Betters, Jason Taylor etc.
    The shorter, compact types have to be exceptionally quick or exceptionally strong in order to disengage and make a play. Obviously, there are exceptions to both types.
    When I read his pre draft analyses and watched some you tube highlights, I saw the same things I see in preseason. When he beats his guy off the snap, he gets pressure. However, once he's stopped, he just gets swallowed up and becomes a non factor. No counter moves or ability to disengage from the OT.
     
  11. JakeemThe Dream

    JakeemThe Dream A True Fan

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    I really don't want to look up years of teams to find that dude lol The time it would take isn't worth debating over. The reason I said I disagree is because I find it almost impossible not to have had it happen and there's been an example (within 2-3 years ago) that was given. SOS gave an example from 2015. He did his research and quickly found one. Our Defense sucked last year no doubt or argument. Worst in franchise history. I don't believe it's a biased argument that I believe a scheme change would do wonders for our D. That's my opinion. You disagree that's all. To say there's NEVER been a D upgrade immensely due to a scheme change seems amazing. With all the years the NFL and the amount of teams have been around, mathematically it just seems impossible to deny. It's all good brother!! No reason to argue with a fellow Fin Fan over something that is not a big deal. PHINS UP Brother!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  12. JakeemThe Dream

    JakeemThe Dream A True Fan

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    Just Wade Phillips alone has brought the 1980 to 1981 Saints from 28 to 11. The 88' broncos from 27 to 4. The 94' Bills from 19 to 10. 2001 Falcons from 30 to 19. The 2003 Chargers from 30 to 13. Wade Phillips said "If your scheme or whatever it is you have doesn't allow the players -- especially the great ones -- to do what they do best, then you need to change. The better the player is, the more freedom we give him to do more things, because he'll tend to make better decisions than other players. It's not just about being more talented. We've always tried to do that." https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...s-a-history-of-quickly-making-defenses-great/
     
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  13. Bowzer

    Bowzer Active Member

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    This is not the same as defensive end. Their hands are not in the dirt. Different position.
     
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  14. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Just came in here for my daily check in to see if the light came on today? Anything yet? I'll check again tomorow.
     
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  15. Atila

    Atila Atila - the freshmaker. Finheaven VIP

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    Just wanted to address the bolded part...

    Not even close to the worst in franchise history. Yards given up is a horrible way to measure that defense. And actually, we were better in the clutch defensively than some of those ZT/JT squads if we want to get real.

    Hate the scheme if you want, but the defense did enough for us last season with verrrrrryyyyyy limited talent.
     
  16. NoblePhin

    NoblePhin Starter Donator

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    One thing last year that was repeated was the fact we were going to press the hell out of you and dominate the line and go after the qb. Then the lights come on and we play primarily off man schemes that left so much cushion that completely negated our rush.
     
  17. NoblePhin

    NoblePhin Starter Donator

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    We need to play to our strengths- press corners and great pass rush
     
  18. Always Next Year

    Always Next Year Starter

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    Those defenses were good, but not great, and certainly not any type of league leading "shut down" type of defense. As Dolphin fans we remember them fondly, but that is only because of how poorly we have played for the past few decades. You can't compare those defenses to the current/recent Seattle defenses.

    In all of the years you mentioned we only made the playoffs half of those years. Bounced in the wild card round once, and the division round the other three years. JJ did some nice things as the coach here, couple of really nice defensive drafts, but was pretty bad drafting the other side of the ball, ESPECIALLY RB and WR. We took Yatil Green before we took Madison and JT, and took John f'ing Avery before we took Surtain and Mixon, so it wasn't all puppy dogs and rainbows back then.

    Jimmy Johnson was a good coach, but my lasting memory of him is his last game when J-Ville hung sixty something points on us and our defense made Fred Taylor look like Superman.
     
  19. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Light go on yet for this guy? Just checking.
     
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  20. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You mean Lamar Thomas, JJ johnson, KARIM Abdul Jabbar etc weren't studs? Our best skill player was a guy who came from the arena league. Loved Gadsden but he was not exactly a no 1 receiver. Good defensive drafting and mediocre offensive drafting.
     
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  21. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Fred was an excellent back. It was the fact we made Jay Fiedler look like Dan Marino in this game that hurt us for years to come.
     
  22. greasyObnoxious

    greasyObnoxious I love lamp Finheaven VIP Donator

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    i would guess "edge defender" since T.J. Watt isn't a DE
     
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  23. greasyObnoxious

    greasyObnoxious I love lamp Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Dwight Freeney
     
  24. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The option for press coverage is nullified by our lack of ability to stop the run. If the front 7 (primarily the LB unit with our attack philosophy) is unable to provide amble run defense then we have to put 8 in the box with our SS. Once that happens we have to play off and Cover 3 variants to prevent getting torched over the top.
     
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  25. JakeemThe Dream

    JakeemThe Dream A True Fan

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    With any stat you have to be literal. We literally had the worst defense yardage wise in our history. I don't remember every clutch situation with Zach and JT but we really shouldn't compare that (impossible to measure). I've always agreed that we got killed with injuries and I think that alone could help improve our D. Trust me, I don't complain about D talent from last year or this year (read the messages from the start you'll see lol). We were ravaged. I don't even hate the scheme. I just want one that works lol I hate giving up the most yards in franchise history under that scheme and most the same players. If that Zach/Jt team had our Offense, we would be going deep into the playoffs. Didn't the Pats have the best scoring D?
     
  26. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    They did. Allowed only 250 pts (15.6 pts/g). Next closest wasn't even close with the Giants allowing 284.
     
  27. JakeemThe Dream

    JakeemThe Dream A True Fan

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    I thought so lol WOW!! They're simply amazing. One side of the family are Giants fans so I have to love them for beating the Pats for us lol
     
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  28. Always Next Year

    Always Next Year Starter

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    Don't get me wrong, Fred Taylor was a stud, I think he deserves to be in the HOF. Even with that being said, in that playoff game our defense made him look supernatural, broke so many tackles, ran by so many of our guys, it was really incredible to watch. Sad to watch actually, even sadder in retrospect knowing that was Danny boy's last game, was not his best effort.
     
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  29. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    IIR, Fred went 80 yards for a TD on the first play from scrimmage. That game was an abomination.
     
  30. Atila

    Atila Atila - the freshmaker. Finheaven VIP

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    I like your last question - measuring that defense by a more USEFUL measure... our scoring defense was 19th against... and considering how bad our talent/depth was, I would say it was our coaching (dare I say scheming?) that got us a result that most would agree is better than the talent (aka, we had 25-30th ranked defensive talent but managing 19th is a success).
     
  31. JakeemThe Dream

    JakeemThe Dream A True Fan

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    Ya I know that's the more meaningful way of measuring a D. I was just saying yardage wise. Dude, once again, I don't care if we run all 11 men on the line if it works. People that know more than me about schemes are talking about what a different scheme would do for our D. SOS seems to know a lot about our Defensive Scheme so why not listen? I know people will disagree about our talent level but I think barring injuries we have a solid roster. I wonder if we were in a different scheme, with the talent we have, if we'd have a better D all around. I think a D consisting of Suh, Wake, Timmons, Howard, Kiko, Reshad, Hayes, Branch, should be enough to be a top 15 D. It's just my opinion before anyone disagrees. I'm drained debating about our talent level on D lol I've seen worse D talent have better years ,so I have to ask myself, is it the scheme?
     
  32. mmikel30

    mmikel30 Starter

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    Harris needs to get stronger he gets swallowed up.
     
  33. Atila

    Atila Atila - the freshmaker. Finheaven VIP

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    I agree with everything you said - but how do we have an scheme issue when the team you're talking about was NOT the team we fielded last year? I don't know much about the intricacies of the scheme, where its strengths are, where it's flaws are... I do know there are going to be pros and cons with all of them, and the general sweeping statements made about any of them can be counteracted with personal tweaks... here is what I do know: we have one year of work under the scheme, and we overperformed defensively based on all considerations. I hope that wasn't all because of Vance Joseph, but my point is, what do you really have to ***** about from our defensive production last season based on the garbage players we fielded in the back 7? You really can't...
     
  34. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    Aldon Smith, 37 tackles,14 sacks,2 forced fumbles, 4 pass defended,1 safety

    Julius Peppers, defensive end, Carolina Panthers – 2002
    35 total tackles,12 sacks,5 forced fumbles,1 interception,6 pass defended

    Dwight Freeney, 41 tackles,13 sacks,9 forced fumbles...started 8 games

    Simeon Rice, 12.5 sacks

    Kamerion Wimbley, 11 sacks

    Carlos Dunlap,9.5 sacks

    Mark Anderson, 12 sacks,4 forced fumbles

    Yannick Ngakoue, 8 sacks

    Jevon Kearse, DE, Tennessee Titans, 1999
    Regular-season stats: 14.5 sacks, eight forced fumbles, 16 games played (16 starts).

    Reggie White, DE, Philadelphia Eagles, 1985
    Regular-season stats: 13 sacks, 13 games played (12 starts).

    Al "Bubba" Baker, DE, Detroit Lions, 1978
    Regular-season stats: 23 sacks, 16 games played (16 starts).

    Terrell Suggs- 12 sacks 6 FF 4 FR 1 INT 16 GP 0 starts, wasn't a LB till the next year, played only DE his rookie year and only on obvious passing downs.

    And there are many more Defensive ends who had very good rookie seasons
     
  35. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Coaching, scheme, and strategy are everything in the NFL.



    It's our scheme. It's definitely our ****ty defensive scheme that is holding us back.
     
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  36. John Biello

    John Biello Perennial All-Pro

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    years to come, understatement of the day my friend!
     
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  37. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I loved Al Bubba Baker - sacks were still unofficial then. Coy Bacon has 26 in 14 games in the '70s. 23 or 26 is just insane.
     
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  38. Atila

    Atila Atila - the freshmaker. Finheaven VIP

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    Yeah... but your post really did nothing here. My whole point was our defense overachieved last year all things considered. We have only one year with that unit and scheme to judge and last year would be a poor example to use as to why our scheme was holding us back.
     
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  39. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Hammered Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    This scheme has a strong 15 year history for evaluation and it's never done squat in the postseason.

    Also, overachieving and allowing a franchise record for yardage while being at the bottom of the league for pts allowed doesn't mix.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
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  40. Jerrysanders

    Jerrysanders A True Fan

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    Fred was one of the Best RBs I've ever seen in my entire life, injury hindered him a lot and he still had a great career.
     

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