Dolphins bash Florida Legislature for failing to pass stadium bill

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by NCFINFAN13, May 4, 2013.

  1. NCFINFAN13

    NCFINFAN13 The Phinsuckery Continues Donator

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  2. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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  3. maralieus

    maralieus Lets get those balls deep!!

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    Get'em.
     
  4. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    They should be bashed, what the legislature did yesterday was foolish.
     
  5. andyahs

    andyahs Bahamian Redneck Donator

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    That's because he is acting like a spoiled brat but not sure what he has to do with the stadium funding.
     
  6. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    In your opinion. I dont know the reasons that it stalled although I know this bill was not as straight forward as many would have you believe because the provisions to take exemptions away from international banking in area was part of bill.
    http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...1_florida-international-tax-exemption-banking

    If Ross had moved on this issue sooner more debate and discussion could have been done on the bill and this a better chance to get it refined to pass.

    Here is also a paper about the impact of international banking on the economy of Florida
    http://www.esan.edu.pe/paginas/pdf/Banking.pdf
     
  7. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Was referring to the very bad business move of bashing the people that still want to talk about the stadium funding bill but just not in this session.
     
  8. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    You're incredible. You piled on Starks vehicle incident in SoBe, asserting where there's smoke there may be fire, have spent a ****load of bandwidth here recently, denigrating the Jordan pick (but not as much as you did claiming Wake would never work out cuz he's from the CFL), yet are in the middle of a heated defense of Geno Smith although a bunch of sources, with empirical and anecdotal evidence and no axes to grind have weighed in in similar negative fashion, and now are blaming Ross instead of the crooked legislature which found the time to vote to increase their own fundraising limits but didn't have the time for even a vote (probably unless the right palms were greased)

    The Dlox paradigm: if they aren't Fins involved they get the benefit of the doubt; if it's the Fins, "fire first and ask questions later." I know it's hard-wiring you yourself may not be aware of, but really it's beyond ponderous at this point. :idk:

     
  9. JCane

    JCane Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Florida legislation should be bashed even if they do eventually pass that bill.

    Bunch of ****ing frauds. Makes me sick. All of them.
     
  10. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Why dont you stay on topic for once. If you have nothing to add to the discussion dont bother replying to my post, Your reply had not one thing to do with my post. If you have an issue with anything I said in my post feel free to address it if not then dont bother replying
     
  11. fishfanmiami

    fishfanmiami Have you seen junior's grades ? Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Maybe Ross should form a political action committee and spend some money getting these good old boys tossed next election.
    They will never do anything to benefit the voters in S. Florida whom overwhelmingly voted for the other side.
     
  12. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Too funny! Am I the one who brought up Geno Smith in this thread -comparing the fins negatively to the whiny behavior that has been widely attributed to him by various outside sources with no axes to grind? This post is about context: yours is that your opinions should be considered in the perspective that your gut reaction is "Fins bad.. others good or deserving the benefit of the doubt." And that applies here as you have no idea what went on behind the scenes and when or that the Fins might just have every right to call the legislature out for their selective self-serving actions and non-actions.

    And advising me to stay on topic which I did per the above is hilarious coming from the guy who if the thread is about a negative of another team, is the first one to bring up examples that the fins shouldn't talk, or about a failed player on another team, bringing up a failed player on ours.. anything to defend everyone else and attack the Fins.

     
  13. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    What the legislature did yesterday was politics as it is normally played in Florida. The bill had nothing in it that would benefits the districts of the north and central Florida legislators who are responsible for Weatherford being the Speaker. If you want to pass a bill that benefits Miami, you have to give goodies to north and central Florida as well. This is how the game is played in the real world. If Ross had been serious about this venture he would have known this and would have instructed his supporters in the legislature to make the bill palatable to all of Florida. He did not and he got what he deserved. Frankly, for a billionaire this was an absolutely minor league performance.
     
  14. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    I'm not versed on what happened. Can someone fill me in?


    If it's that they're mad about the City not wanting the tax payers to have to fork up more money for a damn football stadium then screw that. It's a damn game.... People are hurting financially out there and the Marlins already screwed the Miami tax payers over, why let Ross and the Dolphins do the same???

    If that's not the case then i'll shut up lol
     
  15. allsilverdreams

    allsilverdreams Starter Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Sounds like the Legislators dont want to loose out on any money for themself.thats a lot of $$$$ that they would loose from thier pockets.
    F these legal organized crime baztards.
    you dont become involved in politics to help the people you get involved to get rich yourself
     
  16. finomenal

    finomenal A True Fan

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    Dear Stephen Ross,

    You own a private business. F*** you. Fund your own renovations.

    Love Always,

    Terry
     
  17. 67Stang

    67Stang FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    A comparison between a spoiled individual not getting his way and voters not given a chance to vote.......please get real! PLEASE!
     
  18. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    Everyone wants to bash the legislature collectively. From what I understand, the votes were there to pass, but the Speaker of the House refused to bring it to a vote. This is solely on the Speaker.
    Harry Reid does this all the time in the US Senate. I personally feel that the respective heads of both legislative bodies (at the state and federal level) should not have that kind of power.
    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely"
    -John Dalberg
     
  19. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    Does the city, county benefit from said "private business"? Yes they do. Therefore, they should share in the renovation costs.
    You clearly do not understand economics.
     
  20. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    They probably benefit more from international banking which according to some reports brings billions of dollars to area in one way or another and definately employs many more people. This bill would have so calledly taken away incentives for international banking in Miami. Doesnt the county benefit from almost every private business in some way much like seven degrees of seperation. So should we renovate every private business or what should the prerequisite be. Walmart hires a ton of people in Miami should the taxpayers renovate Walmart. We dont even know all the parameters of the bill that kept getting tacked on. I still believe trying to rush this through the legislature was a bad idea in the first place. The legislature said this was open to discussion in the next session. Hell we dont even truly know the dollar amounts, because the mayor said like 289 million, we know the NFL will loan Ross 150 million. So thats 439 million and not even close to the so called 70 percent that people have discussed.

    I just dont see the foresight from Ross that should have been there. Like I said did he wake up in January and say damn I need to renovate my stradium. I actually like the plan to a great degree that was discussed initially but the numbers dont add up. I blame the NFL above anyone else because they should never have even had Miami in consideration for a superbowl if they did not feel the stadium was good enough. I personally think this is their new brand of black mail. I do not see how trying to bad mouth the people that will decide if the bed tax is to be raised and what to do with it will help his cause.

    I also think to a degree that this was much ado about nothing since last I heard the public was against this bill. I know in march a poll had 77 percent against.
     
  21. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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  22. finomenal

    finomenal A True Fan

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  23. PBay Fin Fan

    PBay Fin Fan Well-Known Member

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    The speaker should be bashed, there were enough votes to pass the bill. He should have put it to the floor for a vote. They knew the time frame was short in order to get upcoming Super Bowls.
     
  24. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Of course not they will call me a hater or say I only say negative things about the dolphins. I will admit I have had more to say negative in recent years because thats what losing is, negative, its not positive.
    I wish people had been this upset about the bush/gore election. I never understood an agreement being made basically about the deal when state law mandated that bed taxes were maxed already. Wouldnt it have been wise to try to fix that aspect first. Maybe you can help me on one issue. How much money is actually involed
    This is from article
    Florida lawmakers ended their 60-day legislative session on Friday without approving a deal that would have provided taxpayer support for a $350 million dollar upgrade to Sun Life Stadium, according to the Miami Herald.

    Had the legislature approved the deal, the people of Miami-Dade county would have voted on a referendum on May 14. The proposed deal would have raised up to $289 million for renovations by raising the Miami-Dade hotel tax from 6 to 7 percent. The Dolphins would have also had a shot at up to $90 million in state sales tax rebates.

    Plusthis from another article
    As the county commission meets today to consider a proposed deal to renovate Sun Life Stadium, news comes that the NFL has decided to chip in $150 million of the estimated $480 million it would cost to Flip This House, leaving the county and the Dolphins with $350 million to cover. The deal also includes a clause that would cancel any local taxpayer funding if the Dolphins are not awarded Super Bowl L or LI.

    There's a consensus building that this is a significantly less taxpayer-face-punching of a deal than the Marlins Park catastrophe, considering the team would end up covering 70 percent of the snazzy refurbishing. But given the Fish's ongoing meltdown, will voters be on board for even that more modest contribution to a sports franchise?

    The deal would leave Stephen Ross $41 million shy of his promised $191 million

    How is this 70 percent?
     
  25. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    This is my contention in first place. Why did owner decide to wait so close to super bowl vote to try to get bill passed. The 49ers were working on getting stadium quite a while ago and did not wait for nfl vote to be around corner. Houston did their renovations a while back
     
  26. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    :crazy:

    The truth comes out.

    And there you have it.

    Only on this board will you get Dolphins fans defending corporate subsidies for Russian bankers over corporate subsidies for the Miami Dolphins. Only on this board.

    The banksters have won again.
     
  27. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Well you must admit that has done alot for the economy of area , the south american business influx is a major economic factor.

    On another note I dont trust the NFL and I dont trust Banks but I admit banks are more important to the economy.
    I keep all my money in my mattress which doesnt help every ache and pain and dislocated item on my body from infantry wear and tear
     
  28. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    So let me get this straight, you literally think that the state of Florida should prioritize SUBSIDIES FOR INTERNATIONAL BANKERS over financial assistance to the Miami Dolphins.

    OK, I'm done with this thread and this topic.
     
  29. NCFINFAN13

    NCFINFAN13 The Phinsuckery Continues Donator

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    I'm not going to argue for or against but I do want to correct one thing .... ALL construction jobs are temporary. That's why they're called "construction" jobs. Because to construct is to build and all building projects come to an end. The pyramids, the bridge to nowhere, etc. A construction career is always about getting the "next" job, but I'm sure there are lots of construction workers that would love to have some security for 18 months to 2years. 2000 workers, 4000 workers ... whatever the number.

    I hope Ross figures a way to get it done himself.
     
  30. NCFINFAN13

    NCFINFAN13 The Phinsuckery Continues Donator

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    Don't like government/private ventures but if I had to, I rather invest in the local guys, but hey that just me .... I also think illegals shouldn't be given welfare so...
     
  31. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    I agree wholeheartedly with Finomental and Dlockz. Private business... pay for your own renovations..


    I don't even want to hear the argument that 4,000 jobs will help the city because the truth is that it will not. Not even a little bit. Those jobs will be there for a few months, maybe even up to year, but once they have everything built and in place, the market will dictate the amount of jobs. If the city is doing well then the stadium will do well. If the city is still in the hole (practically bankrupt as it is and doesn't look like it will be better anytime soon) then there will be less fans coming to the games (just like the past few years) and in return less money to employ people. Pretty simple ****...
     
  32. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    also about intl banking
    nternational banking is another growing segment of the economy. With total deposits of $74.3 billion in 2003, about 100 commercial banks, thrift institutions, foreign bank agencies, and Edge Act banks are located in downtown Miami, representing the largest concentration of domestic and international banks on the East Coast south of New York. Brazilian, British, Canadian, French, German, Israeli, Japanese, Spanish, and Venezuelan banks have offices in Miami-Dade County. Still, domestic banks dominate the market, led by Bank of America Corp., which has total deposits of over $7.8 billion in its 25 local offices.

    part of article also
    Proponents of the stadium legislation want to end the tax exemption, force banks to pay new taxes on these specific transactions and funnel any new revenue to the Dolphins for the stadium renovation.

    This plan makes very little sense for a number of reasons.

    Florida International Bankers Association (FIBA) analysis indicates that international banking and related activity contributes more than $1.8 billion in economic output to Florida’s economy yearly, supporting nearly $1.2 billion in Gross State Product, 13,600 employment positions paying $589 million in compensation to Florida workers. In addition to these impacts, international banking and related activity generated $89 million in revenues to state and local governments in the last year.

    The numbers only tell part of the story.

    A robust international banking community contributes to the overall economic growth of our region and our state. The Miami-Dade real estate market owes much its recent recovery to international buyers, who work closely with their international bankers. New construction on Brickell Avenue and in downtown Miami has been bolstered by the international market.

    Condo units, sitting dormant throughout the county for years, were scooped up by international buyers who have transformed these non-performing assets into taxpaying, grocery buying, and entertainment consuming households.

    A practical argument against the legislation also exists. International banks have a choice as to where to locate these operations and can easily choose to move the jobs associated with these transactions to another state. Many of these are well-paying, solid jobs being held by local employees who may not be relocated.

    Further, if international banking jobs are moved to another state like New York, then the banking activities will be managed in New York — and not generate any revenue for the stadium. It turns out to be a lose-lose. And even worse, if the international banking tax benefit is taken away and the Dolphins referendum is defeated (a likely possibility) then everyone loses: the banks, Florida and the Dolphins.

    International bankers are not alone in their opposition to this legislation. The Downtown Development Authority, the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce, and the Florida Bankers Association all support FIBA and its efforts to defeat the anti-bank aspects of the legislation. The Florida Legislature needs to reassess its position on this bill. Stadium upgrades are a fine goal but not at the expense of hundreds of jobs that generate tremendous benefits for our community.

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/29/3370759/lose-lose-aspect-of-stadium-deal.html#storylink=cpy



    So in reality its not as simple as your favorite team versus corporate america because in actuality the dolphins and the NFL are corporate america.

    One thing I never get is why doesnt the dolphins ask for funds like these
    Business location incentives at the local level include Empowerment Zone and Enterprise Zone opportunities, each of which offers tax or wage credits to businesses based on the number of new jobs created. The Miami-Dade County Targeted Jobs Incentive Fund is available to companies that are on the list of industries identified by the county as desirable additions to the local economy
     
  33. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I know I said I was done with this thread but I just want to point out the sheer ****ing hypocrisy of taking those numbers from the Florida International Bankers Association on the economic benefits of international banking at face value after having spent months pointing out the stupidity of taking the NFL's numbers on the economic benefits of hosting a Super Bowl at face value.
     
  34. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    I couldn't get into any of the intl banking vs local banking discussion because i'm actually an anarcho-capitalist :lol:


    True Free market FTW!
     
  35. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    I dont take either number at their word but I know international banking has more affect on the miami economy than the NFL does . Of course both organizations will inflate their numbers.

    Not to mention unlike the people that disagree with me. When you brought me to task I gave you my exact viewpoint, did not tip toe around it.
     
  36. NCFINFAN13

    NCFINFAN13 The Phinsuckery Continues Donator

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    Speaking my language brother!
     
  37. finomenal

    finomenal A True Fan

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    You and your damn facts. All that stuff doesn't matter. It's sports! That means cities need to open their legs at all times when it comes to financing stadiums, no questions asked.

    :lol:

    I don't agree to that way of thinking. I guarantee you 99% (if not 100%) of the people bashing Miami and/or Tallahassee did not do any research whatsoever on what this plan consists of. First off, it's Miami we're talking about aka the Banana Republic. Secondly, it's Miami. Miami is no stranger to fuzzy math and misrepresentations. For anyone who wants to write that off as opinion is simply not informed. I live in South Florida. I saw it happen with the Marlins recently, with the Miami heat and their previous stadium also. The Metro Rail (also publicly financed) was such a failure of a project that it's been coined "Metro Fail" down here. There's more cases too. It's all out there to read if you chose to.

    Ross and company know that if they throw that 70% figure out there, people will just repeat it and not look further into exactly how much he will actually be contributing. It sounds like a good percentage to the masses. That's all that matters. I don't care about whatever they say the project will cost. There are always overruns in cost with this type of project. Again, anyone who denies that is uninformed. This information is all public and verifiable. Look it up. I haven't heard one peep out of Ross on who would be responsible for overruns.

    But hey, what's most important is getting this deal done because it's sports, right? Hank Goldberg (even though he's an ***) and the late Jim Mandich always spoke out about these types of projects. That's one of the many reasons why I enjoyed their radio shows. They stood up for what's right.

    What I find especially annoying are the people who don't even live here who talk badly about the politicians for not getting the deal done. Ha! That's rich. Of course you don't care about the details behind how it gets done. You want it done for your own selfish reasons, consequences be damned. I love the argument, "Well it will create jobs." Interesting. After all those construction workers are done renovating, are they going to get transitioned to other jobs in the stadium? Maybe backup cashier? Extra mascots? Fill in cheerleaders perhaps? Yes, I realize that not all of the 4,000 will be construction workers, but a lot of them will be. You know what else creates jobs? Small business. Sports isn't some magical elixir of job creation that you can't get anywhere else.

    "But it helps out the economy!" Plenty businesses in Miami alone help the economy immensely. That's a sorry excuse. "But they might move the team!" If he does, so be it. More people need to have my attitude. I wouldn't be surprised if the politicians purposely held things back so it wouldn't get done. Good for them if that's the case. We see too many instances of owners threatening to move if demands aren't met. Screw you. They need to call his bluff. You want to leave? Fine. Good luck elsewhere. Go take advantage of some other city.

    One last point. We don't root for other businesses like we do sports. If Ross wanted to renovate commercial buildings for any other companies he owns, he would get a loan or pay for it outright. The same people clamoring for this deal would be angry at the prospect of some billionaire asking for public money in order to finance his downtown real estate buildings, for example. Take the emotion out of this. They use your emotion against you to try and leverage their agenda.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2013
  38. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Here are two papers on super bowl and stadium financing impact by someone with no stake in game

    http://college.holycross.edu/RePEc/hcx/Matheson_SuperBowl09.pdf

    His finding The Super Bowl is America‟s premier sporting event. This paper details basic economic
    facts about the game as examines the controversy surrounding the purported economic impact of
    the game on host communities. While the league and sports boosters claim that the game brings
    up to a $500 million economic impact to host cities, a review of the literature suggests that the
    true economic impact is a fraction of this amount.

    http://college.holycross.edu/RePEc/hcx/Matheson-Baade_FinancingSports.pdf

    Interesting paper on financing of stadium.

    Also isnt the same group that estimated economic impact for the marlins the ones that came up with the numbers for the dolphins. I have heard this no exact proof though.

    Also on economic impac
    PricewaterhouseCoopers has estimated the economic impact of multiple Super Bowls. According to its analysis, direct visitor spending has ranged from a low of close to $120 million in Detroit in 2006, to high of about $200 million in Dallas/Fort Worth in 2011. The firm (which wasn’t paid by the Host Committee) projected $185 million in economic impact for the New Orleans Super Bowl held earlier this year.
     
  39. damaster21

    damaster21 PSN: FatalViper

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    THANK YOU VAARK! Tired of all the negativity.
     
  40. Fin Fan in Cali

    Fin Fan in Cali Joanne Shaw Taylor Super Donator

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    Brothers this is a sensitive issue that hits home for all Dolphin fans. Please be respectful and debate the post and do not make it personal with the other poster.

    Thanks a lot,

    John
     

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