Dolphins' roster casualty and extension candidate

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ChrisJNelson, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    Hey all,

    Here is an article I wrote today on the Dolphins' potential roster casualties and extension candidates:
    http://www.phins-spotlight.com/2013/01/dolphins-roster-casualty-and-extension.html

    Obviously the Dolphins are not in need of clearing more cap space at the moment, so we might not see any of these players released any time soon. However, I thought it'd be interesting to take a look at players that could be on the chopping block due to salary and other factors, especially if Miami makes additions at their positions.

    I also talk about a few extension candidates for guys with expiring contracts in 2014. (You can probably guess who.)

    Let me know what you think and if you'd show any of these guys the door this offseason or perhaps after the preseason.
     
  2. Tiko377

    Tiko377 A True Fan

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    You are completely wrong about Bess to the fullest
     
  3. phinfanNY08

    phinfanNY08 Starter

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    If CB is such an issue, cutting one of Miami's most reliable receiver for the past 4 years makes sense? There is less depth and talent at WR and you want to get rid of him? HAAAAAAAAA
     
  4. MadDog 88

    MadDog 88 TANNERECTION!!!! Donator

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    I don't get the love affair some have for Bess. He was a nice story making it as a UDFA but he is easily upgraded.
     
  5. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    very interesting read and well done first and foremost...as usual i have some comments

    dansby won't be cut this year...it doesn't make sense...his play hasn't fallen off enough where the cap room it creates exceeds the value...now in 2014 i think he's likely at minimum a restructure candidate if not an outright release possibility

    davon bess i think depends on whats done in the draft...if miami brings in a slot like a ryan swope or a tavon austin (the latter of which i doubt given you're taking a top 2 round pick) i think bess could be let go...otherwise he sticks for another year

    richard marshall barring a position change to free safety should be cut...he's just not worth that salary and dreadful on the boundary in vertical coverage...i would cut marshall but i agree that things could hinge on what happens with sean smith...if it's me though i cut marshall or competes at free safety and takes a pay cut

    incog imo it all hinges on the draft...if they use a high pick on a left guard fit i think he could go...if not he likely sticks although he should be playing right guard but i digress...next year i would lose incognito at the latest...

    dmitri patterson that $4.6 mil number is ugly but i agree with the idea that he could man the nickle...even still if i'm miami he's being approached about a pay cut...and if he's not taking it at that # if i can i let him go...

    miami should absolutely be proactive and lock up reshad jones...if they wait til after next season when he's free they're looking at $8 mil per in the 5 year $40 mil range exactly as you projected...if they approach him now a year early and lets say offer him $6 mil per over 5 years i think he thinks long and hard about it...it's enough where his agent and him have some serious discussions i can tell ya that...if miami waits and he has another year like he did this one barring a tag which i would do vs let him walk $8 mil will be the number his agent is looking for...

    as for paul solia i don't see the need to be proactive here...let him play out his contract and then decide what your next move is...he's a 2 down dt that doesn't really give you much pass rush and frankly wasn't as dominant this year as he was before he signed the extension...make him show you again
     
  6. phinfanNY08

    phinfanNY08 Starter

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    with who? tell me a receiver more reliable in the last four years than Bess on this team? what potential upgrade as a 3/4 slot receiver with great hands thats available
     
  7. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    I'm not sure why there's the misconception here that I'm saying these guys will be cut. I'm simply exploring reasoning for and against. As I say with practically each guy, I don't see a move looming simply because of team need and abundant cap space already.

    As for your post, hooshoops, I appreciate the detail and opinions. Always fun to discuss.

    And finally, as for Bess--like I said, maybe he doesn't get cut this year. But my question is if you re-sign Hartline, sign a starting free agent and draft one or two guys high that you expect to contribute, do you really pay Bess what he's making to be that third, fourth or fifth guy when he doesn't even play special teams. Like I said, I get the fanfare here because he's a great story, but anyone that thinks there's a ton of upside there or that he's irreplaceable is mistaken.

    ---------- Post added at 02:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

    Bess is Welker. He's Amendola. He's well below the elite slot receiver in the game, which is Victor Cruz. He's a pure slot guy and there are fairly easy to replace. I like Bess too but he doesn't offer any upside or playmaking ability. The Dolphins wouldn't miss him if they re-signed Hartline and did their job acquiring talent in the draft and free agency.
     
  8. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    well we didn't discuss anything...yet

    but i'm game
     
  9. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    Ha I just meant I appreciated your detailed response. A lot of good points.
     
  10. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    God help us if Marshall and Patterson are our starting CBs next season.

    Thanks for the link to the cap page. Where can I find out who else is entering the last year of their contract like Jones will be? Don't see it anywhere on that page.
     
  11. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    I keep a list of Dolphins' future free agents, which currently runs through the 2017 offseason (Fields/Wake). You can check it out here:
    http://www.phins-spotlight.com/p/miami-dolphins-future-free-agents.html
     
  12. phinfanNY08

    phinfanNY08 Starter

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    Bess is Welker. He's Amendola. He's well below the elite slot receiver in the game, which is Victor Cruz. He's a pure slot guy and there are fairly easy to replace. I like Bess too but he doesn't offer any upside or playmaking ability. The Dolphins wouldn't miss him if they re-signed Hartline and did their job acquiring talent in the draft and free agency.[/QUOTE]

    In my opinion, there is no receiver worth taking at 12th in the draft. Going DE/CB/OT are more attractive with that pick. We have to go against at least 24-30 teams who will be looking at Jennings, Wallace and Bowe. There is no given Miami will sign any of these guys. I would love to see one or two guys coming here, but in a time where Tannehill needs to develop, Bess is one of his more consistent targets and if Miami actually plays him where he belongs, as a 3/4 receiver, he will help continue to move the chains on the 3rd and 10s and lower yardage. Which plays to his strengths. I am not saying Bess is a superstar, but he sure as heck more reliable than an Amendola.
     
  13. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    I disagree wholeheartedly. I think this offseason is the restructure or trade year for Dansby. It's time for us to cut money off the books where it isn't being used properly and our linebacking core is one of those areas. Burnett is decent at best, but he could be upgraded easily by a draft pick or a Connor Barwin. Dansby could be beat out by a Te'o or even a cheaper same output player like a Rey Maualuga. There are so many decent free agent LB's this year that there is no reason why we shouldn't be looking at replacing those 2 or just giving them real competition for the starting job.

    The other area needing to be restructured is the O-line, but I see Long gone this year and Incog gone in 2014.

    I just hate the idea that you need to spend money to fill spots. You can pay for value and not just a roster spot filler ie Long, Dansby and Burnett.
     
  14. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    I wouldn't be opposed to trading Bess if we bring in a big name wr like Jennings, draft a wr and re-sign Hartline. I think Hartline can do everything Bess can do out of the slot but has that added deep threat ability.
     
  15. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    Barwin is a 4-3 defensive end, he would not replace Burnett.
     
  16. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    mauluga over dansby??? you're nuts...nuts...a 2 down thumper lb who can't cover and has no range over dansby...damn mateo that's bad...go ahead disagree all day long

    and connor barwins a 34 olb... god dang fellas polish your games up with this kind of stuff
     
  17. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    He can play outside. He has before.
     
  18. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    What does Dansby do better than a Rey Maualuga type of LB'er? Don't tell me he can cover better because the guy is burned EVERY single play up the middle. There is a reason teams with seam threat TE's destroy us every game, it's not magic. I think people look at his past years and still think he's that guy. I see a slower less capable backer.

    Hoops, seriously you can't tell me his is a good coverage linebacker anymore, man..


    Btw i'm not saying I want Rey here i'm saying for the money Dansby is getting we could pay less for the same value with a Maualuga
     
  19. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i can tell ya that dansbys way way better in coverage than rey rey...and cinci even knows it thus he's pulled off the field on passing 3rd downs...as for lets cut dansby and use that top pick on manti teo how are you filling a need with a difference making player??? you already have a pretty good mike in dansby locked up...fill another need with a player of similar talent and upside as teo...it's not like this team is loaded at pass rusher or corner or wr...you got one on a platter waiting for you and you want to cut dansby to save money that you couldn't sign a good every down free agent mike backer with to begin with...

    manage the cap...for now and the future...cutting dansby this offseason is a foolish proposition...
     
  20. Tiko377

    Tiko377 A True Fan

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    I think Bess is more important then Hartline who trips after 15 yards

    Bess had basically the exact same stats as Hartline until he got hurt
     
  21. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    by the way dansby played half the year or so with a torn bicep...the kind of thing many guys say screw it put me on ir i'm not playing thru that...and while it effected his play late in the season mainly his tackling in short spaces i saw him not wrapping up as much that kind of effort and play thru pain is a terrific thing for young guys in the lockerroom to see and lead by example...

    the only way you cut dansby this offseason with his contract the way it is is if he has become a cancer in the lockerroom or his play has fallen off the table to where financially it no longer makes sense...and neither of those things have happened...is he opinionated??? yeah he is...so what he's a veteran who's earned the right to be if you ask me
     
  22. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    Not cut him, but trade or restructure this year. Not in 2014 when he's for sure a goner. Maybe you get a 4th for him?


    I guess i'm the only one here that sees Te'o as a play maker, but I see him as a day 1 difference maker. He has exactly what is needed physically and mentally to play Mike in our defense.

    We should always go BPA in the draft. If Te'o is there no way they pass on him. I'd hope not.. We have 8-9 other picks after that to pick up corner, receivers, te, de/olb, og, etc. We have like what 3 Top 50 picks? We can do it and in the process x that cap number of Dansbys off the books.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2013
  23. dolpns13

    dolpns13 Chest Rockwell is my hero Donator

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    You think Bess is overpaid averaging just over 2M/year... Lol. Good one.
     
  24. Lord Of Miami

    Lord Of Miami A True Fan

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    A bad team doesn't get good by trading and cutting the few good players they have. If Te'o is there and you draft him you could always put Dansby on the outside and play him as a OLB.
     
  25. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    I'd guess we have different opinions on what "good players" are then. At this point in his career I see Dansby as a serviceable player. He'll get his big hits and sacks once in a while, but will also lose in the coverage game on the regular.

    You know I had this SAME discussion about a different Miami player a while ago. Yeremiah Bell. Gets his hits but loses in coverage, a one dimensional player and it's due to their ages. You lose speed after a certain age.
     
  26. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    yeah you could do that...and then koa misi becomes a waste as your solb...
     
  27. Andyman

    Andyman Canadian Fin Fan

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    That's true. It's all about what the alternative is. If there is an upgrade to be had, you look at it. If Bess had been a first rounder, what would people say about him? No receiver on this roster should feel safe.
     
  28. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    In the 3-4, yeah. But he's a pass rusher. 4-3 linebackers don't primarily rush the passer. He's a 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE. If he came to Miami, he'd play opposite Wake, not in place of Burnett or Misi.
     
  29. Lord Of Miami

    Lord Of Miami A True Fan

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    Yup, i do think Dansby is a good player, Misi to me is a serviceable player, who really isn't that good of a fit for playing as a OLB in a 4-3. I was wondering how long it would take the coaching staff to figure that out and they did at the end of the season when they started playing him more as a DE, but he's still not much of a 4-3 DE either lol but we do agree that Dansby isn't so good to not draft Te'o tho.
     
  30. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    Misi's best position is SOLB because that's all he can do. He failed as a pass rusher which is why he was drafted. I don't think he has any more future in the NFL at DE.
     
  31. Lord Of Miami

    Lord Of Miami A True Fan

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    Yup,but i think his best fit is as a OLB in a 3-4 but either way he's "just a guy" i really don't think he was drafted as a pass rusher because he was never one in college. I mean i know Jeff is dumb but i hope he's not that dumb.
     
  32. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    He's not a pure rusher but that was his primary job as an end.
     
  33. Lord Of Miami

    Lord Of Miami A True Fan

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    Well aware of that also since i've been a draftnik since the mid 80's i'm very aware he sucked as a pass rusher in college.
     
  34. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    We definitely should try to trade Misi for whatever we can get for him, he's just not a fit at all in the 4-3.
     
  35. J Tes

    J Tes next generation

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    No it wasn't. His primary goal at end was to stop the run
     
  36. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    No. It turned out that's all he COULD do, so he stopped rushing the passer as much. But he was drafted to help get to the quarterback. He rushed the passer 40 percent of the time as a rookie and that number fell off in 2010 because he wasn't effective. He was never supposed to be a 4-3 OLB but that's all he can do.

    From draft day 2010:

    “He’s a great kid with a great motor and is a very versatile athlete who is tough as nails,” Ireland said. “This kid’s played defensive line, he’s played defensive end, and he’s played outside linebacker and inside linebacker. He does a lot of things and the versatility of the player really enticed us to take him. I think he’s going to play outside linebacker for us. He’s a good pass rusher. He gets out of trouble, stays on his feet and again I can’t say enough about his character and his motor.”

    “As a pass rusher, he’s got great hands, he’s got quick hands. He knows how to leverage big tackles. He can get around the edge, he can counter back inside and he’s got a nice repertoire of tricks with him. He’s notCameron Wake[​IMG] in terms of the outside speed that way but he’s a very creative rusher with his rushes.”
     
  37. J Tes

    J Tes next generation

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    You said he failed rushing the passer from the DE position. Miami has played both a 3-4 front and 4-3 front. Ends responsibilities are very different in both. Even in a 4-3 the ends jobs are very different. I'm not trying to defend Misi's pass rush abilities because I think he has very little, just trying to understand what exactly prompted your comment
     
  38. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    If I said he failed as a 4-3 DE I misspoke because I know he's never played that position. I meant to say he was drafted as a pass-rushing 3-4 OLB and he failed to succeed at that.
     
  39. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    misi already failed as a 34 olb...he's salvaged his career as a 43 solb...stout at the poa...not great in coverage but solid overall...when he went out with injury the drop off was substantial...

    way more valuable than he was in years past
     
  40. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    Wholeheartedly agree. Not sure how much of a long-term starter he is (I'd love to upgrade) but he's solid at what he's doing now. Not a lot of negative plays and Trusnik was destroyed when he played for him.
     
  41. Tiko377

    Tiko377 A True Fan

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    ehhh feel weird about Misi but it doesnt seem like he has passion for the game... i remember reading articles that he never watched a game of football.

    but he did improve this year then his previous year.
     
  42. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    And Tannehill doesn't know the divisions. ;)
     
  43. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    hey mateo still think rey rey is as good in coverage as dansby or that dansby wears a target at it??? let me tell ya the texans game plan today revolved around attacking rey rey in coverage and he wore a target all game long...dansby has never worn a target or been the focal point of any offensive gameplan...the bengals left rey rey on the field on 3rd down at times and it bit them in the ***...just like just about any check down in the flat to a rb did or any cross face te route...it was pitch and catch
     
  44. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    You're telling me that the Patriots don't game plan on attacking our mike lb every game?? Lol Come on man

    Again, I never said I wanted the guy, I was just making the point that for the price of Dansby we might as well get a cheaper version of him.


    And yeah I saw Rey get destroyed tonight :lol:
     
  45. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Bess is a good player but he is not welker not even close.
     
  46. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Wait what, let me read that again, he said Bess is Welker?

    :crazy:
     
  47. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    It pains me to see there are still Dolphins fans that think Welker is all that special, and at the same time probably still angry the Dolphins traded him.

    For the last time--yes, Bess is Welker. I'm not sure if you've looked, but when Welker was in Miami (a much crappier team with no legitimate quarterback), he was a solid slot receiver that barely averaged 10 yards a catch and couldn't find the end zone very often. In Miami (without a regular capable quarterback), Bess has absolutely matched everything about his production.

    I know Welker's constant production and 120+ catches seem, gaudy, but the reality is he is very much a product of the system he's in. He has a fantastic head coach (who loves shaming rivals), an elite quarterback who gets infinite time to throw, and has constantly been around other talent on offense (Moss, Gronk, etc.). Welker is a good slot receiver--he plays on mismatches, has good hands, runs crisp routes. But he is not an elite wideout in the sense of a Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson or AJ Green. Is a good slot guy and that is all.

    That is what Bess is, and there is no doubt in my mind Bess could replicate Welker's success if he were in New England. He has all the same attributes and doesn't lack in any categories. He IS Welker. A good slot guy with reliable hands. He easily matched Welker's production in Miami and Welker's production in New England is simply the result of a better quarterback, better offense and more passing attempts.

    Hell, look at what Mike Furrey did with the Lions in his career year. Being a slot guy has its challenges but the production is almost entirely the result of mismatches and the nature of the position--short, high-percentage routes and throws. Look at Danny Amendola. It's all the same thing. Don't overrate Welker because he's in an elite offense that allows him to catch more balls than most.

    Stop kicking yourself because the Dolphins traded Welker. While they essentially gained nothing from the trade, they also replaced him almost instantly with an identical player and wouldn't have been any better off these past six years with Welker in Miami. Plus he's turned into quite a cocky douche since he left, and I have no need for him.
     
  48. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    If what welker does is so not special how come nobody else has ever done it in NE. If he is such a product of the system why is he the only guy that has done that. People kill me with that crap that Bess would do the same. Better receivers in NE have not done the same. Again why has no other player in this elite offense ever did these things, simple answer because Welker is much better than u give him credit for.
     
  49. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    I'm not saying Welker is bad, but he's not elite either. Victor Cruz plays extensively out of the slot and you see what he does. (He's actually better than Welker because he's faster and has more deep-play ability.) But it's obvious that guys like Bess and Amendola are fully capable of the same thing, only their reception/yardage totals aren't as high because of the teams they are on.
     
  50. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Because :crazy:
     

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