Dolphins Will Be Better off Without CB Richard Marshall

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ill-be-better-off-without-cb-richard-marshall

    Felt I had to weigh in on the topic.

     
  2. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    I felt he was horrible last year and have no clue how this staff felt he was a better option than Vontae Davis as starting corner.
    I also feel that Patterson will be a horrible starter. Neither guy is better than Davis or Smith but of course when he was with our team people would say he was a good player.
     
  3. mnphinfan

    mnphinfan Lifelong Fin Fan

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    Great write up CK! Stats don't lie. I'd thank you but I can't.
     
  4. SB Dreamer

    SB Dreamer Well-Known Member

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    I will miss Richard...no wait...I think Richard will be missed...Um no...I believe Richard was part of the problem...No No....Richard WAS the problem...
    I am glad Richard is gone.

    What position did Richard play again?
     
  5. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    I don't understand why people don't like patterson hes a solid corner
     
  6. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Stats only lie if a player is still on the phins then stats don't matter lol
     
  7. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Since when. If he is such a solid corner why do teams keep letting him go. 5 nfl teams have decided he was not worth keeping but somehow he is a solid corner,
    He could go and have a great year but there is not one shred of evidence that Patterson is a solid nfl corner.
     
  8. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    I hope you are right.
     
  9. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    so that's the whole basis? lots of good players bounce around the league
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    LOL why can't you thank me?

    EDIT: Oh my god, they killed the Thanks button! You bastard!
     
  11. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    really like who? Name one good player u would like to have as your starter that has bounced around 6 teams.
    Players bounce around the league because they have deficiencies like attitude or lack of talent.
    The basis is he wasn't good last year. I mean what can u judge a player on.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    What you will see in there though is a very STRONG suggestion that Dimitri Patterson is the same type of player with the same weaknesses, and an implication that the Dolphins could be making the same mistake if they play him primarily on the outside.
     
  13. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    sorry I didnt read the entire article CK, but he has had very good grades from a nickel from what I have seen.

    "CB Dimitri Patterson is rated as the 47th best CB in the NFL according to @PFF. 54.2% of passes get completed on him in 415 snaps

    CB Dimitri Patterson, who exclusively plays the nickel, has allowed 2 TDs this season. Has a 92.7 QB rating when throwing his way"

    that is before we picked him up but still are actual grades
     
  14. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro

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    Agreed, I'm not crazy about Sean Smith but there is no way Marshall is better than Davis. I know, move on


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    My buddy, a long-suffering Cardinals season ticket holder in Glendale from the 50yd line vantage point informed me when we signed him that he was an inadequate corner and a decent nickel for the Cards. As he's the same one whohad told me that we dodged a bullet being outbid for Pace as he was only playing better during his contract year, I trusted his assessment then which obviously has proved to be spot-on.

    edit: thanx aviandome
     
  16. DolfanISS

    DolfanISS Perennial All-Pro

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    Also no Thanks buttons for tapatalk users or else I would give more out FWIW.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    he wasnt good last year? looked pretty solid to me, the big weak spot was nolan carroll and a lack of a pass rush
     
  18. mnphinfan

    mnphinfan Lifelong Fin Fan

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    I agree, I however think based on their play this preseason that Patterson was/is the lesser of two evils.

    CK, has there ever been a write up done on how Coyle seems to be able to get more out of DB's than other coaches? We hear quite a bit on this forum that Coyle is a DB guru but I wonder if there are some solid stats out there to back it up. One player who comes to mind in particular is Gebril Wilson. He was horrible as a Raider and a Fin but IIRC he became a lot better when he signed with Cinci and played under Coyle.
     
  19. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    I remember u bringing this up a few times and he was definitely spot on. I always think its quite telling when a team lets a player go without a fight because a contract like that could have been matched fairly easy with creative capologist. I mean we did let Long walk but we definitely bid to get him back. Sometimes teams can be wrong but two teams in a row gave up Marshall in free agency without a whimper
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think you need to read the article if you're going to comment on it.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    He seems to be able to resurrect safeties that are dead in the water but his history with corners is a little more hard to read.
     
  22. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    I apologize I just wanted to comment on the topic in general
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Richard Marshall himself admitted that the Cardinals were the only other team after him in free agency and their offer was something like a 1 year deal for $3 million.

    That was a big red flag.

    Honestly when he signed I thought they were signing him to play safety/nickel and I thought it could be a good signing on that basis. I remember Awsi Dooger writing up a big opinion disagreement with the signing saying it's exactly the kind of trap signing that bad teams fall into for the wrong reasons. He was assuming (and he ended up right) that Marshall was being signed as a regular corner.
     
  24. where's th'fish

    where's th'fish Scout Team Donator

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    And one of those teams gave him a mighty good contract. He also had one very good year. Anyway, if his strength is the slot, play him the slot. It's not like we don't need a slot CB.
     
  25. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    Im thinking that Taylor being back in action had something to do with this, and expect him to start by the bye, maybe sooner.

    I'm also wondering if Patterson is completely safe, depending on final cuts or maybe a trade or, at least re-doing his contract.
     
  26. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    As a nickel and backup safety I feel he did have value in fact more than I feel Patterson would have but neither player should be making one dollar over 2.5 million a year.
    when his contract details came up I was like wow did we outbid ourselves by that much. Reminded me of the Wilford signing in that as a cheap signing u see possible value but hell that's starter's money.
     
  27. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Then decided it was better to eat that contract before the first season was up. No team just takes a cap hit like that for a good player.
    That would have been like us cutting Richard Marshall last year.
    I think sometimes people will spin things anyway they can to make them feel better.

    We trade Davis and start Marshall so Marshall was playing much better than Davis. we sign Nannee and Chad Johnson and of course they will play better with us.
    We lose Keller and hell we will be as good at TE as last year which damn sure wasn't good lol
     
  28. Vampire Nicolas

    Vampire Nicolas Active Member

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    Patterson will be fine as a starter next to Grimes. Not surprised that Marshall got cut because there was no way they were going to keep both of them at those high salaries.

    I will also pass on reading the Bleacher Report, not a good website at all.
     
  29. AphexPhin

    AphexPhin A True Fan

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    I trust the coaching staff made the right decision
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    At practice today the Dolphins have been doing exactly what I figured and what I stated in the article.

    In nickel packages, Dimitri Patterson is moving to his most natural spot in the slot, while Nolan Carroll comes on and plays the boundary.
     
  31. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    Patterson has been on 5 teams same as Deion Sanders. So there you have it the answer to your question arguably the best CB ever has been on the same amount of teams as Patterson.
     
  32. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    [​IMG]
     
  33. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    Stats don't lie!
     
  34. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    Neither does tape boiiiii
     
  35. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    Nolan Carroll getting more playing time - that's kind of scary. Jamar Taylor or Will Davis, please step up.
     
  36. Irishfinfan1

    Irishfinfan1 Well-Known Member

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    So in terms of our rookies are they both more suited to the outside, or are Taylor and/or Davis more suited to the slot? Letting Marshall go wasn't a great surprise, when you spend 2nd and 3rd round picks on CBs you want them to see the field, even if it is just in nickel or dime packages.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I would prefer Will Davis to step up and win that job if it means he's actually going to play well. The guy has great ball skills. But he's also susceptible deep, just like Patterson and just like Marshall.

    Rookie corners are notorious for getting burned and letting up a bunch of catches and yards no matter how good they are. Even if it's future all-world Patrick Peterson, as a rookie he's still crap.
     
  38. beanh8er

    beanh8er A True Fan Donator

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    So Nolan Carroll gave up 1.2 yards per coverage snap last year. How does that compare to the average? A top 10 CB (in that statistic) had a yard per coverage snap of .94, so obviously there is a ways to go.
     
  39. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i'd prefer carroll on the boundary job as the nickle corner or whatever also if jamar taylor can't come in and be the nickle but carroll has looked so bad to me at times this preseason check that so disinterested to me at times that i didn't think they'd do it...

    anything that keeps will davis from getting exposed against top 3 level wrs i'm all about...i know that much

    so this is minus jamar taylor winning a top 3 job probably the best thing that could happen from my stand point...

    the most talented top 3 physical gifts wise to me is grimes, taylor and carroll...but if taylor isn't gonna get healthy this is probably the best plan b
     
  40. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    b/t patrick peterson as a cb to date has been way overrated...really has...as a returner he's been rediculous...but at corner he hasn't ascended to shut down level at all...

    doesn't mean he cant take the leap this year but it's just not happened yet...
     
  41. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    It's about average to slightly better than average I believe, for the perimeter. Especially the yards per attempt.

    If you're saying "obviously there is a ways to go" then it kind of implies that I'm trying to paint a picture of Nolan Carroll as a top corner or some such. I'm really not. But there is a plurality out there that will attempt to convince you that Nolan Carroll was a walking dumpster fire a year ago, and he really wasn't.
     
  42. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Pat Peterson was excellent in 2012. Prior to that, not so much.
     
  43. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    agreed...carroll took way too much heat around here last year...if you line him up in so many off coverages like we have done this preseason etc and he gives up catches in front of him that's pretty much expected...

    but there's no reason that wr lemon should be able to separate him on a vertical with the ball in the air other than lack of effort to finish from carroll...so that's frustrating for me at least

    doesn't matter who we play though...they'll stay away from grimes as much as possible unless they have a physical mismatch and attack your inside and opposite boundary cb...i just think some guys are gonna be harder to exploit than others
     
  44. So Be

    So Be A True Fan

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    I'm not sure what to think on Patterson. He gets $4.6M this year if we keep him, which he is not worth, and we save the whole amount if we get rid of him. The problem is finding and fitting a new player in this late or, depending on two rookies. We're not going to see any VG CB's released on final cuts but, an upgrade is not impossible. Maybe a good vet comes available for a year.

    He also has $5.4M coming next year. So, if Coyle likes him enough to want to keep him, we should at least re-do his contract.
     
  45. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    he's no revis in his prime yet...
     
  46. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    Randy Moss has played for 5 teams 6 if you count 2 stops in Min!
     
  47. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    From the end of the column, "took a step in rectifying a previous mistake."

    That's it exactly. Marshall and Artis Hicks weren't good signings last year. I objected to both. Combined you were paying a lot of money and there wasn't a special trait among the two. Ireland was like an ebay bidder fixated on winning a specific auction regardless of price or quality.

    Ireland has demonstrated far better instincts this year, perhaps quietly and patiently schooled by Philbin. I remember emphasizing in the Wallace/Jennings debate that you were better off targeting one of them, not both, and it should be the younger more explosive guy. Grimes is the type of injury gamble that can pay off. Keller had savvy and fit a need. Trading up cheaply to grab a special athlete near the top of the draft is a move that normally will pay off. I'm still not convinced about the linebackers, particularly Wheeler, but at least they have speed and explosive playmaking possibilities.

    Congrats to Chris on the Bleacher Report gig. Lots of impressive content on that site. Right now there's a lag like an old political poll that was taken before the terrain changed. Many fans still instinctively rip the site, based on reputation from a couple of years ago, and with confidence that others will agree and pat them on the back.

    Besides, a byline can lead to notice and opportunity elsewhere.
     
  48. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    Not too many people are haha. Im thinking you are right on people avoiding Grimes as much as possible. Obviously depends on the coverage, but we will probably rolling safety help towards Carrol/Patterson as much as we can
     
  49. beanh8er

    beanh8er A True Fan Donator

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    I know what you were trying to say. I was just stating that there's a ways to go if he's ever going to develop into a top flight corner.
     
  50. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    I understand that Marshall getting cut based on the economics of the situation...and that cannot be discounted. I understand the metrics (which I am not a fan of in terms of making assessments) and that Marshall was not lighting it up during camp.

    With all that said, there is still the fact that Richard Marshall is still a better CB than Nolan Carroll, Will Davis and a banged up Jamar Taylor. I do not think the team is better today without Marshall. Also, I think the team made themselves vulnerable if injuries kick in.

    I really hope CK is right that the team is better off without Marshall. Nolan Carroll is on the spot now.
     

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