Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by ckparrothead, Feb 28, 2013.
Nice write up Chris. You somewhat answered the question I have about his intelligence. He may not be able to explain his route options to Joe in 15 minutes but does he have the ability to pick up a complicated offense over the course of a season or will he struggle the way Egnew has?
You clearly haven't done any research and are wrong about everything. :refuse:
You could argue that Michael Egnew struggled because he played almost an entirely different position at Missouri than he's playing in the NFL.
Cordarrelle Patterson played the same position at Tennessee he'll play in the NFL. Well, not precisely the same but you get the point. And he didn't just run a bunch of straight line-ish verticals like you see in some of these spreads. He learned that playbook in less time than any other newcomer on that offense, to where he was given a wide range of plays to execute...between end-arounds, jet sweeps, decoy sweeps and end-arounds, option passes, screen sweeps, fade patterns, back shoulder, fade stops, slant routes, drags, dig routes, corner routes, post routes, bang-8's, shake routes, out routes, out-and-ups, seam routes, curls...a nice range, overall.
I'm going to read this later when I can really sit down and digest it, whether I agree or disagree I'm happy to see you guys doing these articles again.
Well done again CK. Makes this time of year easier to handle.
Thanks for your time.
There's a section of it that I already know you're going to disagree with.
i don't think as a prospect pattersons on the same level as dez bryant when he came out especially in the red zone as a win option but that was a good read...and i think the reason given for why miami won't touch him with that top pick makes perfect sense...the whiteboard with philbin and explaining and executing option routes...
Excellent article Chris. Well analyzed and written. Kudos. :brewskis:
Well written, well thought out article, good job.
I wasn't so convinced that I liked Patterson at 12 but you sold me, particularly when comparing his #'s to the production of other guys out of JUCO like Steve Smith and Ochocinco. At this point, Patterson will probably go to the Jets, or Bills but I would be happy with the pick if he falls to us.
As far as the comparison with Dez Bryant goes, it's a give and take. He's not the red zone option Bryant was. That's very true. But Dez Bryant isn't the pure vertical threat that Patterson is, either. Patterson truly does have Mike Wallace's pure long speed. And at 6'2" and 216 lbs. as well muscled and strong as Patterson is, he'll scare the bajesus out of defenses deep in a way that Bryant's 4.50 to 4.55 speed won't.
Oh I just recognised you from twitter. Good work.
I'm upset that there are no quotes from elementary school teachers. How are we really supposed to know his true character? (But for real, great stuff)
A little to short for my liking...
Great job as always!
I love sports literature, this was great as always CK. Makes me want to start writing again...
Draft Winds, always a great read. Awesome work CK!
bryants physicality scares the bajesus out of nfl dbs...and he;s as exlposive as any wr in football...he plucks the football clean for such a physical force...any issue that kid has ever had has been with himself...we're talking hall of famer if he would just dedicate himself to the game...he's murderin the red zone and he whoops about any db physically down the field...treats em like step children on any 50/50 ball...
one things for sure though i can't talk about upside and what a guy will be in a couple years like a mingo or a lane johnson and leave out patterson...the talent is undeniable...the route running imo is not on the keenan allen level...but what it always comes down to for me with miami is does this kid fit an option route system and does he play as smart as he needs to in this o...and to that i say no
At some point when a guy as talented as Cordarrelle Patterson doesn't fit your system, it might be time to look at your system and see what's wrong with it.
that may be true but it's the system your 10 year qb has played in his whole high level career pretty much and one the he shows to me at least to excel in...tannehill reads leverage well imo...i'll adjust the talent i surround him with with what i believe plays to his strengths the most...and one thing this o screams to me is you better be able to read coverage and read leverage and adjust on the fly to it...if you play dumb or raw your *** is gone
he wont fit the mental makeup. Part of that IMO is the flash. Joe Philbin is not about flash. I tend to think they will be more impressed with Allen than Patterson.
BTW, I didnt read the article because of Sun Sent.
The one factor that I have not yet highlighted that gives him an amazing edge with the football in his hands is his awareness of the field and defenders. For a guy that does boneheaded things at times that show a lack of mental presence, he shows absolutely amazing mental presence on the run when he is running with the football in his hands. He has eyes in the back of his head. His functional field memory and instincts are off the charts. This was something that Dez Bryant had going for him in a big way coming out of Oklahoma. It was why I loved Dez so much coming out of that Draft. And, it is why Dez Bryant is a special player in the NFL as we sit here today, despite his issues.
This is the part that gives me great hope for what the dolphins offense could have as a weapon. He appears to be able to run the same routes as Mike Wallace and plus he looks to have little more shiftyness/sizzle. Perhaps with maturity the bonehead mistakes will subside. Then of course CK as if on cue, you brought me back down to earth when you concluded that Ireland and Philbin would never choose a player such as Patterson:thanks:, because of his slow processing speed (I hate you when you're right). So there is a grain of truth to what Nic Bouniconti said about Jeff's averson to play makers.
If Ryan Tannehill is indeed a "10 year" guy at the quarterback position. He doesn't need an inflexible system or scheme in order to be successful. In fact it's more likely just the opposite. A fluid scheme that takes advantage of talents available would probably help his career more.
This is essentially the bottom line. If TALENT doesn't fit your system, that system won't be around very long, neither will the guys that implement it. I don't know of any system where talent doesn't fit.
I'm tempted to dig up all of the threads around here about Demaryius Thomas and how raw he was as a prospect... same with Torrey Smith, Percy Harvin, and Julio Jones. Meanwhile talking about how 'polished' Michael Floyd and Brian Robiskie were.
Cordarrelle Patterson is nowhere near as raw as some people think. However, I do understand how someone might have an issue with him with the 12th overall pick, because that's the stance I've had from the beginning.. and I had him as the top WR in the draft before anybody that I know of.
Having an issue with him at #12 is one thing, but to turn around and insinuate that he isn't the top WR prospect in this class, or to make a case for Keenan Allen that high is full of holes... holes they don't even know about.
well enlighten me on the holes with keenan allen there slimm???
As always CK, a great in depth look at a guy that we're all interested in.
I think Patterson is even more dangerous after the catch than Tavon Austin. I would be more than happy if we took him at 12. If by some grace of god we can trade back with a team like the bears (who I think will look to make a move up for the 3rd tackle whether it be fisher or lane Johnson) I would rather take the trade than Patterson. But that's purely because I think Tyler Eifert NEEDS to be a fin.
Again, thanks for the great insight. I look forward to the rest I the series. I look forward to hearing your analysis in Justin hunter?
Good stuff CK. Patterson is worth it IMO. He is not near Randy Moss talent but Patterson's build and speed remind me of Moss.
That's another point I keep trying to emphasize. You've probably got the best perspective of anyone as I think you're a wide receivers coach but from what I've seen as far as the routes Cordarrelle was asked to run, the ones where he was thrown the ball and caught it...it seemed like a nice wide variety.
I think he loses his awareness of landmarks and I think he might have some trouble reading leverage on the fly at the moment but you'd hope those things will get better.
I don't remember making raw/polished arguments about the likes of Torrey Smith, Percy Harvin, Julio Jones or Michael Floyd. I do remember loving Demaryius Thomas despite accusations of being raw. But I also really liked Stephen Hill out of the same system despite obvious questions of being raw. Still like him. I also remember really not liking the whole Brian Robiskie cult following much at all.
Nice job CK. I was looking at how you worked out a trade so we could also get the 22nd pick in the first round....I would love for this to happen but it is pretty rare for these many picks to go be exchanged all at one time. I think if we are set at taking a Wide Receiver with our 12th pick, and Patterson is gone, we probably could look at trading down 5 to 10 spots and acquiring another second rounder. The draft is stock full of very good wide receivers....I agree with Mel Kiper that Patterson might be the only WR worth taking at #12, but you have to ask whether there are some other WR's who could provide us with the tall, fast, great hands wide receiver we are looking for. I think Keenan Allen, DeAndre Hopkins, Justin Hunter, Da'Rick Rogers, Terrance Williams, Robert Woods and Quinton Patton all could foot that bill....you also have two under 6 foot WR's in Tavon Austin and Stedman Bailey of West Virginia who have great speed, hands, but just are a little small to be a #1, but they could help us as a #2 or #3.
I think if we go with a defensive player like Dion Jordan, Bjorn Woerner, Zeke Ansah or Sheldon Richardson we could still get a great Wide Receiver in the 40's (second round), or even with our 2B pick. Hopefully Ireland can put the pieces to the puzzle together after free agency begins. Can't wait.
Love the DW series with CK taking the lead.
I think Patterson could still be in the mix at #12. Keenan Allen could move way up with a strong pro day.
A point that I have made in the past is that when you've got a guy that stands out as a real 1st tier wide receiver and then kind of a whole group of 2nd tier guys...judging by history, you might be better off going with that 1st tier guy, the guy that kind of separates from the pack a little bit.
Statistically speaking, that group of players that all look fantastic aren't all going to work out. You could have a situation like in 2008 when you had 10 receivers all go in the 2nd round. None of them stood out from one another. None was above the pack. You know how many of those guys ended up being worth anything? Just two...Jordy Nelson and DeSean Jackson. The others were Donnie Avery, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Jerome Simpson, James Hardy, Eddie Royal, Limas Sweed and Dexter Jackson.
To me back in 2010, Dez Bryant, Mike Williams and Demaryius Thomas really stood out from the group of wide receivers from a talent perspective. They were the guys I had 1st round grades on from a talent perspective. Williams obviously had character issues that needed to be considered and ultimately dropped him on my board, but I considered him the 2nd best talent in that Draft at that position. After that you kind of had a group of guys. If you were lucky, when you participated in that group you ended up taking Eric Decker or Golden Tate. If you were not so lucky, you took Rejus Benn, Damian Williams, Brandon LaFell, Emmanuel Sanders, Jordan Shipley, Andre Roberts, Armanti Edwards or Taylor Price. Very hit or miss.
Back in 2007 there was no argument about Calvin Johnson. He was head and shoulders above everyone else. The next group though, were kind of jumbled together. I liked Ted Ginn, I'm man enough to admit that mistake. But guys like Dwayne Bowe, Robert Meachem, Craig Davis, Steve Smith, Dwayne Jarrett, Anthony Gonzalez and Sidney Rice were not considered far off that mark. If you were lucky you took Bowe or Rice...or to some degree Smith. If you weren't, you took Ginn, Meachem, Davis, Jarrett or Gonzalez.
Very similar FOR ME back in 2006. I say for me because even though Chad Jackson was very commonly considered right up there with Santonio Holmes, I didn't think he was even close. I thought the top tier consisted of one man, Holmes. From there, again, you had a cluster. If you were lucky, you took Greg Jennings from that cluster. Or Devin Hester though I didn't really consider him part of that cluster because I had him as special teams only. If you were not so lucky, you took Chad Jackson, Sinorice Moss, Travis Wilson, Derek Hagan, Willie Reid, Brandon Williams or Maurice Stovall.
Back in 2011, I don't think there's any question A.J. Green and Julio Jones together constituted their own tier. Probably about 12 months prior to that draft I thought Jon Baldwin easily in that tier but by draft day I knew that was not the case. With respect to that next tier, if you were lucky you took Torrey Smith or Randall Cobb. So far, it looks like if you were unlucky you took Jon Baldwin, Titus Young, Greg Little, Austin Pettis, Leonard Hankerson or Jerrel Jernigan.
The one year that really seems to defy this...is 2009. I think there wasn't any question out in public that Michael Crabtree stood alone that year as a top tier. And he has turned out somewhat deserving of that praise from a talent and production standpoint. Especially this year. They don't win the Super Bowl without him being ridiculous. For me Hakeem Nicks was also in that tier though. I didn't think anyone else aside from Crabtree was on his level, and I wanted to put him in the same tier as Crabtree. But there was a cluster after that. Yet, Maclin, Harvin and Britt have all been pretty good though obviously two of them very troubled character wise. I never really considered Robiskie and Massaquoi to be part of the real 2nd tier with them. That's an example of a "next best" group that actually is pretty talented.
So anyway back to the original point...when a guy like Cordarrelle Patterson pretty much stands out head and shoulders above the kind of cluster we're seeing with the likes of Stedman Bailey, Markus Wheaton, Quinton Patton, Keenan Allen, Justin Hunter, Robert Woods, Tavon Austin, DeAndre Hopkins and Terrance Williams....you know what, you're better off plumping for the top tier guy...because much as I like most of those players in that next tier, the chances are bad that MOST of them are going to pan out. In fact the chances are good that maybe 3 of the 9 turn out to be any good. Bless you if you took one of those 3...and god help you if you took one of the other 6.
Well, my intent isn't necessarily to insinuate that Demaryius Thomas, Torrey Smith, and some of these other receivers weren't raw. They were raw, especially in terms of routes. The point is, being raw isn't automatically the bad thing that fans like to make it out to be.
Being raw is a positive if you're a physical specimen with a work ethic. Coaches can mold you into being a polished player. Cordarrelle Patterson is raw mentally, and not just at football. But make no mistake, he is not raw as a football player. He's playing football on an entirely different level than the guys he's playing against. You just don't typically see this type of ability from a kid his size, particularly at the WR position. It's all just flat out talent and ability, and it's special. He's not thinking on the football field, which is why he plays so fast.... he's letting his natural gifts guide him... and it's too much to handle for defenders.
You can't teach Keenan Allen, or Stedman Bailey, or Markus Wheaton to do what Cordarrelle Patterson can do because they don't have his athletic ability and explosion, to go along with the type of running ability in traffic that comes along once in a great while.
Rawness is a bad thing when you don't have the skills to literally and physically dominate your opposition... Clyde Gates or Ted Ginn, for example. There's no telling what kind of numbers Patterson would've put up next year if he were able to play another year in college.
Davone Bess is as polished as a receiver can be, but you might as well be throwing the ball to a tackling dummy. You're going to get about the same impact.
Cordarrelle Patterson is a better prospect than Robert Meachem was coming out of Tennessee. Virtually the same size/speed department. Patterson is a little more explosive and shifty, whereas Meachem was a little more polished. Meachem only had one year of real production despite playing 3 years for the Vols. He's more explosive than Dwayne Bowe was at essentially the same size.
Patterson won't be around long on draft day.