First Order of Business

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dajesus, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan Donator

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    I know everyone likes to jump to the draft and free agency, but it’s impossible to predict those two things till we know who resigns and is cut. It would be cool, for I told you so reasons, to predict this in order.

    Guys I think will be cut:
    • J. Thomas, TE
    • Ju’Wuan James, RT
    • Lawerence Timmons, LB
    Free Agents:
    Restricted Free Agents

    What do you think?
     
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  2. zach attach

    zach attach A True Fan Donator

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    Thomas and Timmons definitely gone. James, will stay I believe.
    I'm not so sure Fede does enough to warrant a carryover, Landry I'm still not sure on what the FO is thinking there.
    Moore will go if we go about in the 1st or 2nd.
    And Koa Miss, pack yoyo stuff.
     
  3. artdnj

    artdnj Time is Now Finheaven VIP

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    Backup quarterback position absolutely has to be addressed. No way can you have Matt Moore on this roster when you go spend 10 million on an outside guy when it's his time to step in. Very telling there he's got to go.
     
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  4. Fintastic2124

    Fintastic2124 A True Fan

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    I like this. Good job. Backup an position will be more important than ever this coming season due to the status of tannehills knee.
     
  5. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    I may hang on to Sam Young if I'm rescinding James offer an cannot extend him. I would swap Young out with Fede, who is usually invisible. Time to invest in someone at DE with potential for growth. He wouldn't even get snaps if Hayes is back.

    I agree with everything else but still waiting on Landry decision.
     
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  6. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I don't know why people are in such a rush to get rid of James. He's average at worst and we have much bigger issues. I don't see the value in creating another need on the o-line.
     
  7. Ryan1973

    Ryan1973 Pro Bowler

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    I totally disagree. The line played better after he got injured. They got guys that can start at RT and do a better job for half the price.
     
  8. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    James is turning out to be more injury prone than Pouncey. Not worth 9.4M this year.
     
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  9. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I wouldn't call it "a rush." Average OTs can be quite valuable, particularly if Davis mans the RG. The problem with James is $$$. He's not good enough for almost $10mm
     
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  10. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    What are you basing that on? Sam Young is a good back up, but he certainly can't replace him. Jesse Davis certainly hasn't proven himself to be more than a versatile backup in training. Seems like you set your expectations too high based on his draft position (which was a reach, I'll grant you that), because his play has been average to above average and certainly not worth creating ANOTHER hole on the o-line that will need to be addressed.

    Sign him to a reasonable long term deal and focus on higher priorities.
     
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  11. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Pouncey misses multiple games every season and simply cannot be relied upon. That's a bigger concern than somebody who has individual serious injuries that tends to be more chance. He played his entire first season, all games in season 2 until a serious toe injury, all games in season 3, and all games in season 4 until a serious hamstring injury. I could understand the concern if he reinjured the toe or if any of the injuries were nagging and caused random games to be missed. That causes line stability issues. That's not the case here.

    Is he worth $9.4 million? Of course not, which is why he'll likely (hopefully) be signed long-term to a more reasonable deal. Well, assuming we have a competent FO, of course.
     
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  12. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I don't think a single person is arguing that he is. The options aren't limited to 1) pay him the full amount of his current contract or 2) cut him. Those just happen to be the two worst options.
     
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  13. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

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    I am not big on resigning Fasano, he might be a good guy and all that, but it is time to move on and draft two young TEs. Why have an older player taking up a spot when the likelihood of us going to the SB the SB is remote.
     
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  14. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    It's not remote. A savvy FO and coaching staff gets us into contention next year. Unfortunately...
     
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  15. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    "all games in season 2 until..." he missed the remaining 9 games. "all games in season 4 until"...he missed the remaining 8.

    Pouncey has had knee issues as well as hip issues. It hasn't been just one injury. Pouncey also played all 16 games last year with that hip issue. He has missed 19 games in 7 years. James has missed 17 games in 4 years.

    No matter how you want to quantify it, you can make a case that both are injury prone or high injury risks....and both could make around 10M this year.
     
  16. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    I don't know if it was the way he was used this year but Fasano was not the dominant blocker he was in prior years. I wanted to see more play action out of 2TE sets but I don't think we used it much. I don't think we should re-sign him either. He's about to be 34 in April.
     
  17. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think you missed my point. It took two completely unrelated serious injuries to knock James out in separate seasons (meaning, he played a full season in between). Pouncey may have played all 16 games, but it most certainly wasn't healthy. And that's still a high mark for him, injury wise. That hip is on borrowed time. He simply cannot be counted on week in and week out to stay healthy, and that was my point. You can't say the same about James. If you had to place a bet on who would be most likely to end up missing a game due to injury next year, it would really be a difficult bet for you? A guy who has had lingering issues for years versus a guy that takes serious injuries to sideline? You legitimately believe the two are equally injury prone or or even close to it?

    And the $10M this year statement. You guys are really hung up on something he's not going to get. It's weird. But this place gets overly hung up on salary anyways, so it's not too surprising. He'll get a long term contract at a reasonable rate or, god forbid, he'll get cut and we'll be in need of a RT AGAIN. The latter sounds super awesome, but also super Dolphins, so I can't say I'd be surprised.
     
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  18. Ryan1973

    Ryan1973 Pro Bowler

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    I'm willing to bet Jesse Davis would be a better option at RT than James.
     
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  19. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Davis has been decent, but still a little early to say that. What sounds better to me is keeping James and putting Davis at RG and backup RT. A solid young line with depth. But again, we're talking about the Dolphins, so I could totally see them letting James walk and moving Davis over, leaving us in need of an OG and depth.

    To me, the ideal plan is resign James to a reasonable contract (probably $5-6M/year based on where he stacks up against other RTs) and draft Will Hernandez in the 2nd (though he may have played himself out of reach in the Senior Bowl). He, Larson, Asiata, and Davis vying for the OG spots and leaving us with good, versatile depth for once (I also like Eric Smith as a backup OT).

    Or we need to address yet another offensive line position unnecessarily this offseason. Sweet.
     
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  20. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Paying James more than 9mill would be just another dumb move by our FO. He's not even that good to start with and he's been in the NFL for 4 years and has missed half the season twice already. If he wants to be back it needs to be for a low deal or else, we can roll with Smith/Davis/Sternup

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  21. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I honestly don't understand the issue with james. he's been solid and while not worth 10M, losing him creates yet another hole in our Swiss cheese team.
     
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  22. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Wait, do people actually believe there's a legitimate shot the team will make him the 3rd highest paid RT in the league by paying him his full salary next year? I mean, I know the FO is pretty bad, but not even these doofuses would do that.

    Jinx!
     
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  23. Ryan1973

    Ryan1973 Pro Bowler

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    No it doesn't because he isn't worth keeping and he is a below average RT to begin with. I'm fairly confident that Jesse Davis can do a better job at RT.
     
  24. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    maybe he can, but can you say the same about the backups? a guy who can play both tackle positions and NOT be the worst at it for 5/6M a year is better than bringing in a columbo for 2/3 m a year.
     
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  25. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    At 9.3 million James would be the second highest paid right tackle
    in the Nfl. The next closest RT is
    Jared Veldheer at 6.5 million

    and
    Bryan Bulaga at 5.8 million

    and at least 3-4 young studs who are better than James at 2 million or less
     
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  26. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan Donator

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    I don’t hate or love James, but we would be insane to pay him 9+ million. If he wants to come back at 3 million then cool, if not peace!

    I honestly can’t defend any Dolphin olinemam being a member of the 2018 team. Tunsil due to being a High pick and having a lot of potential I guess should be safe. Jesse Davis showed a lot, and is cheap so he is safe too. Honestly after that I am all for getting rid of the rest of the line and starting over. Most of all the needs to go or take a pay cut is Pouncey. 9 million for often injured C who hasn’t been better than average in 2 years is crazy. Cut him and draft a center in the 3rd round. We would save 7 million if Pouncey was cut. If I didn’t know Gase has an unhealthy attachment to him he would be on my original cut list.
     
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  27. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    That’s the best argument miamis gonna have for James market. Pretty sure the lions though signed billy Wagner to big money as a right tackle. Bulaga is a hell of a player when healthy he just hasn’t found health of late and veldheer moves from left originally signed for to right to help the team out. So his money equates more with a left tackle price point albeit this many years into the terms
     
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  28. Digital

    Digital Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Heck of a sharp analysis Dajesus!

    There are a precious few maybe's (Nate Allen, Alterraun Verner, Sam Young) that are closer to toss-ups in my book (but I would still come down the way you do!), but I think you nailed it bro.
     
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  29. mwestberry

    mwestberry FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Wow...really insightful to me...thanks for posting...

    that's 13 players off the team including: 1 TE ... 3 OL... 3 LB... 2 CB.... 1 Safety... 1 WR and 2 QB....

    So.....are we going to be able to REPLACE all of these positions with our current available cap?....Do you know what our cap dollars will be after this purge?
    ....The list seems to make our team, already in need of talent upgrade, a team with talent AND depth deficiency....doesn't look good to me on paper
     
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  30. royalshank

    royalshank Practice Squad All-Pro Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I like Aikens - good for a blocked kick every season. I keep Jarvis too.
     
  31. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    When I see this I think jawaun has to come in with a number in tbe 5 range: maybe 5 and 30 with 12 guaranteed. Want to know why guys don’t want to be labeled right tackles as free agents? These numbers are why. If someone sees James as a left tackle starter he won’t be in miamis market. And someone may cause he’s a finesse pass protect tackle with good feet and length
     
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  32. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter Finheaven VIP

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    I think I'd keep both Young and Fede. Young showed to be a capable backup late last season. Much better at RT than LT but he played both which isn't easy and he comes cheap.

    Fede, while not a great DE, does a decent job against the run as a 5th DE but he's actually very good on special teams. I think if you can re-sign him at near the league minimum (and I don't see why not) then you keep him.
     
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  33. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    I believe Morgan Moses signed a new deal last year for $7.7M. The market will dictate James' worth and it is a weak right tackle market this year. That drives his price up.

    Morgan Moses signed a 5 year, $38,500,000 contract with the Washington Redskins, including a $9,500,000 signing bonus, $17,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $7,700,000. In 2018, Moses will earn a base salary of $3,250,000 and a roster bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $5,400,000 and a dead cap value of $10,850,000.
     
  34. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    My take is that I would rather use the roster spot for someone with a higher ceiling that, with development could possible work his way into the starting lineup in a few years. That could be an UDFA or a low draft pick. Maybe even poach someone from PS. We've seen Fede. I don't ever expect him to be a starter. I may sign Fede late but only as camp competition.
     
  35. CedarPhin

    CedarPhin King of the Winter Carnival Finheaven VIP

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    Re-structure James, or re-sign him at a decent price. I see no real point in losing him either. Otherwise, we play yet another game of musical chairs that we seemingly play every offseason, and we miss out on using resources to handle another issue somewhere else. Getting rid of James just to get rid of him is the reason why teams like the Eagles pass us by and we're stuck treading water at 6-7 wins every year.

    Outside of that, I'd get rid of Timmons. Terrible signing...but when the Steelers (a team known for LBs) let the guy walk, you know they know something.
     
  36. sunworshipper

    sunworshipper FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    He missed zero games last season.
     
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  37. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    Draft class says to me sign cheap rotational de on one year pact in free agency look to 2019 draft for 43 de piece for the long term

    Moses contract is one that I’m sure James will try to use as leverage but James has more injury history and hasn’t played quite as consistently as Moses.

    Still that’s probably gonna be in the ball park unless James has no real market
     
  38. Tourdeforce

    Tourdeforce Active Member

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    Juwan James could be a restructure. $9 million cap hit with $0 dead money. Bonus the $9 million, extend to a 3yr. $6 million in savings and 1 less position to worry about, especially on the OL
    If James is not back, then def Sam Young, who should be in the $2 million range.
     
  39. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    True, he was physically present at every game for the first time in years. I guess that's something. Changes my point in no way, though.
     
  40. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Not sure we will see many draft picks left pre Gase.
    Tannabum has us in cap hell not unusual for his track record. Tannabum was a bad choice said so in the beginning. Likes to sign high priced players leaving little room for margin of error. So its harder to sign young developing players long term. So James, Laundry and Fede not looking good to see in a phins uniform. We really need a new GM to go along with these new assistant coaches
     

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