Future QB HOF

Discussion in 'General NFL Forum' started by PhinCanuck, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. PhinCanuck

    PhinCanuck Dolfan in Canada

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    I was thinking, besides the following 3 QBs, is there going to be a 'gap' in the HOF for QBs? I can only come up with 3 for sure:

    1. Brett Favre
    2. Tom Brady
    3. Peyton Manning

    If these 3 never played another snap, they would still get in.

    Who else is there though?

    McNair, Brunell, Warner? I doubt any of those would get in...
     
  2. Jt0323

    Jt0323 A True Fan

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    Vinny Testaverde? maybe idk
     
  3. spydertl79

    spydertl79 A True Fan

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    Doug Flutie is a shoo-in for what he did in Canada! Kurt Warner might get in, the AFL counts too.
     
  4. Motion

    Motion A True Fan

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    I'd be shocked if Warner made it in.
     
  5. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Sporty Don

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    I dont think Warner has a snowballs chance. You cant be good for a few years and get into the hall of fame. I mean he has only started 16 games in season twice.
     
  6. WestCKoastiN

    WestCKoastiN Doogie Howser

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    too early but maybe Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers?
     
  7. dominizzo

    dominizzo CAMERON EARTH WAKE

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    Donovan McNabb, Eli Manning, Perhaps Drew Bledsoe???
     
  8. Mike13

    Mike13 I am a golden god

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    Are you serious Dom? Eli in the HOF?

    Mcnair is possibility IMO.
     
  9. In_Flames

    In_Flames A True Fan

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    A long way to go, but I believe Carson Palmer has the potential and talent to make it...
     
  10. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    I don't see any QB other than Favre, Brady and Manning getting into the Hall. Nobody else is there at this point.
     
  11. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    There's not another QB close to HOF consideration yet.

    Guys that are potentially on track:

    Palmer, Mcnabb, Brees, Ben, Hasselbeck.

    Other than that Mcnair is the closest but I think he falls short. Daunte, Brunell, Vinny, Bledsoe, Warner have no shot.
     
  12. HysterikiLL

    HysterikiLL A True Fan

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    Those 3 are gimmies....IMO there are maybe 10-13 QBs in the NFL right now that'll be in the Hall when their careers are over.
     
  13. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    10-13???? who are they?
     
  14. Motion

    Motion A True Fan

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    :sidelol: Your a funny guy Dom!
     
  15. In_Flames

    In_Flames A True Fan

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    a funny guy with a hot sister no less...:groucho:
     
  16. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    10-13? Not likely....besides the three shoe-ins I would say mabye 2-3 others could get there: Roethlisberger, Palmer.....but it is way too early in their careers. There are only 23 QB's in the Hall of Fame.
     
  17. spydertl79

    spydertl79 A True Fan

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    Doug Flutie is a first ballot HOF, mark my words. Palmer, Mcnair, McNabb, and Warner have chances.
     
  18. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    I don't think they take the CFL into account and if not Flutie has no shot. it's too early on Palmer, mcnair comes up short, mcNabb has a chane and no chance on Warner. For 3 years Kurt had HOF seasons but the rest of his carer has been a disaster.
     
  19. tylerdolphin

    tylerdolphin More Smug than Birthday Dog Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Palmer has a good shot, as does Big Ben, Rivers, maybe Young, McNabb
     
  20. ih8brady

    ih8brady 2008 AFC East Champions

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    Does the Pro Football Hall of Fame view playing time in the CFL/Arena Leagues as the same as careers in the NFL? If so, then thats the only way I see Warner or Flutie getting selected.
     
  21. Wagon Circler

    Wagon Circler A True Fan

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    JP Losman?
    :couch:
     
  22. Alex44

    Alex44 Chicago Bears GM

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    Yes they do and thats a huge reason Warren Moon got in if Im not mistaken.
     
  23. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    I don't think they do, Moon got in b/c he put up great #s in the NFL.
     
  24. PhinCanuck

    PhinCanuck Dolfan in Canada

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    Agreed. I'd like to see that list. Maybe we can bring one of those guys to Miami. Lol
     
  25. wazzy

    wazzy A True Fan

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    Moon got in because he is very effective in both leagues! Flutie did a lot in the CFL but didn't make a big enough mark in the NFL to make him any guarantees in the HOF!

    Possibilities our Palmer(Its early and this guy has talent) and McNair .... the rest have a lot to prove before I start considering others
     
  26. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Sporty Don

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    Warner has zero chance of getting in. It just makes no sense to think a guy who had 2 really good years one decent year and served out the rest of his career as a backup would get into the hall.
     
  27. HysterikiLL

    HysterikiLL A True Fan

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    I'm not talking about guys who would go in now. Although there are only 23 in there currently, the Hall is letting in anyone and everyone nowadays. I guess maybe 13 is a little high though.

    Brady, Favre, Manning. Then you have guys like Palmer, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Leinart, Eli, Cutler, Young, McNabb, Culpepper, Alex Smith, Aaron Rogers...all of these guys, who knows? Maybe one day....they have the potential...then you have guys we've hardly ever heard of like Cleo Lemon and Cody Pickett who could come out of the woodwork and be the next Tom Brady, so it's hard to say sometimes.
     
  28. Dolfan984

    Dolfan984 A True Fan

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    and you call Dolphins fans homers :tongue:
     
  29. I The Man

    I The Man Scout Team

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    I seriously doubt their's 10-13, there's maybe 3-5.

    But I dont think it's good to just hand out that Hall of Famer title
     
  30. schisno

    schisno 2008 Miami Dolphins GM

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    I remember watching PTI and they had a reporter who use to vote on the Hall of Fame, but said in the interview that he and the others who were voting at the time of Warren Moon getting into the HOF, to ignore what he did in the CFL. So anything in that league doesn't count towards consideration into Canton.

    Otherwise you would see someone like Damon Allen, brother of Marcus get voted in as Professional Footballs all time yards passing leader. I think Flutie would have a chance based on his time at Boston College with his little mark in the NFL.

    As for the certain crop, other than the pre-mentioned Brady, Peyton and Farve I don't really seeing anyone else get in, of course like others I believe Palmer and McNabb could be on the right track but the NFL is a what have you done for me lately league these days and the QB carousel that so many teams go through make it harder for anyone to have the longevity that they could have had in the past to make their mark towards a HOF career. Here today, gone tomorrow as they say.
     
  31. ih8brady

    ih8brady 2008 AFC East Champions

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    Moon had great success in the NFL, though(even if his NFL team/teammates never got it together).
     
  32. Fresh

    Fresh A True Fan

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    I hope you guys aren't serious about the CFL being taken into account?

    That'd be flat out disgusting........
     
  33. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    You can't balme his teammates, Moon was not a big game player much like peyton manning(pre '06), daunte culpepper, Steve Young(except '94), randall Cunningham and others.
     
  34. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    McNair won't. He got hot too late and doesn't have any championships to pad his resume, plus only 1 or 2 years were his 'numbers' eyepoppingly great. Not to say he wasn't a damn good player, but not HOF worthy.

    Warner has no shot in Hell. You don't get into the HOF on the basis of 2 and a half seasons.

    I say no to Brunell as well. He never really hit the peak most HOF QBs hit and he sure did bottom out fast.

    I think Brees, unless he suffers a career ending injury in a few years, will be a future HOFer.

    Donovan McNabb might be shorted just because of his frequent injury problems. I'd say he's been one of the best QBs in football the last 3 years.

    Carson Palmer will be in if he keeps up the tear he is on for another 7 years or so.

    Hasslebeck could sneak in there if he could avoid injuries and have another 5 consistent pro-bowl worthy years. Will it happen? Probably not...his age is a concern.

    Trent Green likely won't get in either...he become a stud player at too late of an age, plus this season didn't help.

    If Roethlisberger recovers and puts in another 6-7 great years, he has a shot.

    Truthfully...I think last year's QB class was spectacular and if they avoid setbacks, might put the position in a good spot for years to come.

    Compared to last year, I thinkthere was quite a lot of good QB play this year...it's just that there are more "good" QBs than "great" ones.

    People always point to how many different QBs teams use these days...as if it didn't happen in the 80s. in fact, before all of the rules were reconfigure dto protect QBs, it wasn't rare at all for teams to go through 3 QBs sheerly due to injuries.
     
  35. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    yea, but good QB play in the AFL is a dime a dozen. Even bad QBs throw 60+ TDs and have high passer ratings in that league.
     
  36. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    Drew Bledsoe doesn't have a snowballs chance in Hell.

    Longevity doesn't trump actual performance.
     
  37. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    Warner has no chance. The league has been full of flash in the pan QBs who had hot seasons, even won Super Bowls (Mark Rypien) that didn't even come close.

    Kurt had two and three quarters great seasons. That is not HOF material.

    if it is true that the Arena League counts too, I have to say big deal...AFL play hurts QBs more than any position because it is the most "dime a dozen" position in the Arena League.
     
  38. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    they do take the CFL into account. Warren Moon...Levy....
     
  39. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    As usual, you are all wrong.

    The is a reason the Hall of Fame in Canton is called the "Pro Football Hall of Fame" and not the "National Football League Hall of Fame".

    There is an Arena Football League exhibit opening inside the Canton building.

    According to the official Pro Football Hall of Fame website, any person who was involved in Professional football in any capacity can be nominated, but if they were a player, have to have been retired 5 years.

    However, only one player in the HOF never played in the NFL, and it was due to the fact that he played in the AFL.

    So theoretically yes, Canadian football achievements can be considered...however, let's be real, if the panel judging were all from the NFL, you know they're going to weight NFL performance more heavily than CFL performance.

    Thus you're not likely to see CFL players who play no downs in the NFL in the HOF.
     
  40. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    Warren Moon made it based on his NFL accomplishments, Marv Levy amde it as a HC in the NFL.

    The link below is Warren's HPF page, they show logos for his NFL teams and discuss his NFL career. Threy briefly mention the CFL, the CFL had nothing to do w/ him getting in.

    http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=256

    exhibit and enshrinement are 2 different things. There are not any Arena League players in the Hall, there are not any CFL players in the Hall.
     
  41. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    The problem with your general argument is that you cannot say with any certainty that none of the voters considered his CFL merits. True, his NFL merits on their own were good enough to get them in, but how do you know someone who was borderline didn't use CFL merits to put him over the edge?

    Also, Marv Levy's only league championships came from the CFL. think that didn't help?

    Moreso, why didn't you respond regarding the point that the hall of fame in Canton is not the "NFL Hall of Fame", but the "pro football hall of fame", and suggests the only necessary criteria is the player/executive had to have been involved with "professional football"..NOT NFL football. I know a large part of the reason for the name were the early days of football before the NFL, but still. The name is the name.

    Thanks but I already read that long before you posted. Proves nothing. Especially considering that the 5 CFL championships were mentioned in the first paragraph.

    No players that played solely in those leagues no, but players who have played significant time like Moon in the CFL? Yes. Players who never played in the NFL? Well, yes, technically one....from the AFL.

    The debate wasn't can someone make it into the HOF based solely on their CFL/AFL merits...it was, can those be added to NFL merits to get someone in the hall of fame.

    straight from the website:

    "Any fan may nominate any player, coach or contributor who has been connected with pro football simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The only restriction is that a player must have been retired at least five years before he can be considered. For a non-player, there is no mandatory retirement period, but a coach must be retired before he may be considered. Every nomination of an eligible candidate received will be processed and forwarded to the Hall of Fame’s Board of Selectors"
     
  42. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 FinHeaven VIP

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    Palmer will be in someday barring a horrendous injury. The guy is the prototype everyone is looking for
     
  43. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    Nowhere has it ever been mentioned that playing or coaching well in Canada got someone elected to the HOF. If Flutie gets in then there will be evidence but he's not going in. Marv levy got in b/c he led 2 diff teams to the playoffs and won 4 Conf titles not b/c he won a title in Canada. Bud Grant also lost 4 SBs and Bud is also in the Hall. George Allen is in w/ 1 SB appearance.

    Warren Moon is in the Hall b/c of what he did in the NFL.

    Jim Mora won 2 USFL titles and was a highly successful NFL coach- why isn't he n the Hall since he has 2 USFL titles?
     
  44. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    because he didn't do squat in the NFL.

    I'll repeat for a second time (being a Jet fan I know it takes a while)...nobody's saying someone is going to get into the Hall strictly based on non-NFL measures. But they can be (and often are) taken into consideration to bolster somebody's case.
     
  45. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    Here we go w/ the insults(it's funny how when people are wrong they have to go there). Warren Moon made the hall based on his NFL accomplishments- it had NOTHING to do w/ the CFL. Marv Levy made it based on his success in the NFL, his CFL titles had NOTHING to do w/ it just like Bud Grant made it after losing 4 SBs and George Allen made it based on 1 SB loss.

    Jim Mora was a very good coach in the NFL, he resurrected a franchise that had NEVER even been a playoff game and he brought them there multiple times, add that to to USFL titles and according to you he'd be a HOFer.

    Name me ONE HOFer where their play or coaching in the CFL made the difference to them getting in? Don't give me Moon or levy b/c they got in based 100% on NFL accomplishments.
     
  46. Kinzua

    Kinzua A True Fan

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    Actually, aside from Favre, Manning, and Brady, Bledsoe is the only currently active QB with a realistic chance at the HOF right now. His career stats are very good, he's a mutliple Pro Bowler on two different teams, and yes, longevity does count since he's been a starter for a lot of years (1994-2005, I think). He won't be a first ballot pick, but I think he gets in eventually.

    I think that Donovan McNabb needs to do more for a couple of years more at least to be considered. It would vastly help if he could get Philly to the SB and win it.

    I don't see anybody else until the younger generation QBs -- starting with Brees and Palmer -- prove themselves as more than flash-in-the-pans. HOF is for career achievement.

    BTW, I don't believe that the CFL and/or the Arena Football League count in Hall of Fame balloting. The HOF only considers "major league" performance, meaning the NFL as well as other leagues that have been absorbed into the NFL which would be the All American Football Conference (the league back in the 1940s from which the Browns came) and the American Football League (the league back in the 1960s that contained the teams that became the original AFC teams: Boston (now NE), Buffalo, Cincinatti, Denver, Houston (now Tennessee), Kansas City, Miami, New York Jets, Oakland, San Diego).

    edit: the USFL folded and its players were dispersed among NFL teams and I don't think it counts for HOF achievement!
     
  47. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    Actually, a large portion of Bledsoe's career statistics (not that that's all I base assessment on) are pretty pedestrian. If I take Hall of Fame to mean "best of the best"...that's not what Bledsoe has given.

    His career passer rating is 77.1, and he's only eclipsed 80 in 5 of his 13 seasons. In 7 seasons (including injury/Brady shortened 01), he threw either the same or a larger amount of interceptions than he did touchdowns.

    Have players with marginal passer ratings or statistics like that gotten in before? Sure, Terry Bradshaw for one...but he played in a different era that didn't have the rules that benefitted the receiver/quarterback that Bledsoe did. Not only that, Terry Bradshaw won championships. Multiple rings. Drew has one ring, but he played in only two and a half games on the year, and other than his AFC Championship play, had little to do with it. He did lead his Patriot team to another Super Bowl, but lost it.

    Elway's passer rating was about 79, but he won two titles, and was one of the best 4th quarter comeback QBs in history. He also played in five Super Bowls overall and he showed the team success it hadn't known before.

    The New England Patriots went 64-64 in Bledsoe's 8 years as a starter (not including injury/Brady 2001). The Bills and Cowboys struggled under Bledsoe, largely due to him. The Broncos were 161-95 in the 16 years Elway started, including 5 SB appearances. Even his final season was a great year for him.

    I'm never a proponent of going strictly by Rings, SB appearances, W-L record for a QB, because I feel that's not a fair measure. But we know that's what the Hall voters like. If your numbers are stunning/phenomenal, you can still get in without them (like Marino), but when you're Bledsoe, you need that extra resume padding, since your numbers are average.

    Not to mention that the voters aren't going to be very forgiving of mediocre numbers given all of the rule changes to emphasize offense in the last decade or so, which many of the HOF quarterbacks did not benefit from. 77.1 passer rating in 1983 would draw a lot less scrutiny than now. Yes, it's not atypical for the type of thrower Bledsoe is, but....

    Even observationally...the dude is not a legendary quarterback. He was a slightly above average downfield thrower, but not an HOF quarterback. He made a lot of stupid throws, wasn't a great leader, and really took a downward slide towards the end of his career. If he gets in, it's strictly due to having nobody else to choose from. He'll get nominated,

    I think it's pointless to argue this, because even if Hall of Fame executives urged voters not to vote based on CFL achievements, nobody can truly verify whether a voter considered that or not when they cast their vote. That decision, like it or not, is truly up to the voter. And I fail to believe such merits have never been considered.
     
  48. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    also, Dave Krieg was a three time Pro Bowler and 11th in all time passing yardage. He isn't in the HOF.

    Boomer Esiason, who was in a stones throw of winning TWO Super bowls (losing both), and made four pro bowls, isn't in yet.

    Bledsoe's 7th in history in passing yardage, but all of the 70s QBs never had a chance with 14 game seasons and run based offense. It makes sense that post 80s QBs are all the QBs topping that list.
     
  49. phinphan896

    phinphan896 Pro Bowler

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    leinart, aaron rodgers, alex smith, are u on crack
     
  50. Metal Panda

    Metal Panda One Moe Win

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    No, you just can't read.

    Hysterikill said "the potential"...meaning either they've shown in their brief experience that they might evolve into something in the future, or he's just guessing that based on the situation they're in, they may develop into star quarterbacks.

    So if anybody was on crack...I think we know who it was.
     

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