Gase first order of business: Tannehill to game manager

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Eesti, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    This is a "fantasy" based article from Rotoworld but it does talk about multiple players. I don't necessarily agree with the assessment regarding Tannehill but I also don't have a problem with being a game manager. I think Tannehill did way more than that last year as he was making big plays when it counted. I believe he directed three, 4th quarter comebacks and almost had a fourth in week 1, if the defense would have held up.

    His basis for the label was the decreased pass attempts per game but I think a lot of this was due to the offense as a whole and the fact they were learning a new system and were 32nd in the league in offensive snaps. I also think balance is never a bad thing between the passing and running game.

    Anyway, you should get a kick out of this....

    http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/73136/59/dolphins-fantasy-preview

    In all fairness, he does believe Miami will win 9 games.
     
  2. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin PowerHungryMo'fo

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    The quest for fantasy football statistics is ruining football analysis.
     
  3. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    Make no mistake, the reason many of these sites predicting 7-8 wins is because they don't believe in RT.
    If you put a Brady or Rodgers. Heck, even a Carr or Marriota I think the predictions would be for 10-13 wins with this roster.
    Keeping my fingers crossed, but really hoping RT makes them eat their words.
     
  4. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    One of those strange paradoxes.Tannehill passes a lot = poor run game. Fans were BEGGING for more balance. Now Tannehill passes less = "manager." From game 6 til his injury, I was impressed with his performance. If Miami gets THAT guy this fall, and if the run O and D improve, I can get quite excited.
     
  5. AZStryker

    AZStryker Pro Bowler

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    Maybe. Or maybe it has something to do with not seriously upgrading the middle of a weak oline or all the yards and points the defense gave up in key situations while viewing our top three draft picks as projects that my not make serious contributions this year? Or maybe it has to do with one of the most difficult schedules in the league?

    Most of us know you're not the biggest fan of Tannehill but even you must admit he's hardly the only (and certainly not the biggest) question mark on this team.
     
  6. jnozag

    jnozag Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill's success is contingent upon the O-Line's ability to execute, especially in the interior. I expect to see a lot of A gap blitzes this year.
     
  7. WCUPUNK

    WCUPUNK Active Member

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    granted the guy is a fantasy football writer so he approaches his opinion differently than a sports reporter would, but everything we have heard from the offensive staff this year is they want Tannehill to be more aggressive and take more chances.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...nts-a-more-aggressive-ryan-tannehill-in-2017/
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h...er-adam-gase-is-excited-about-ryan-tannehill/

    his attempts were down last year because of the emergence of Jay Ajayi like mentioned, but also because it was his first year in a new system. he has tons of weapons at his disposal. the only real question marks are his knee (team says its fine) and the OL. Tannehill is primed for a national media coming out party this year in my opinion.
     
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  8. bottomline

    bottomline Active Member

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    I think vegas isn't impressed with Ajayi, either
     
  9. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    Interesting...Tannehill is also credited with three game winning drives although one of those game winning drives was actually an interception return for a touchdown by Alonso.
     
  10. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    The game was tied at that point (before the INT) I think tannehill gets some credit
     
  11. VBCheeseGrater

    VBCheeseGrater Optimist Homer Finheaven VIP

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    Don't forget week 2 as well (or whenever NE game was), catchable ball to devante killed that amazing comeback

    Darn tootin'
     
  12. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    Uninformed. He glossed over the season stats without understanding the progression. Typical. Tannehill's first 5 games were bad. As he and the team learned the offense, there were a lot of mistakes made in route running, protection, inability to run the ball and without a doubt, QB performance. But, after that initial learning curve, the offense changed.

    Starting with game 6 up until he got injured, Tannehill was playing at a blistering pace. His TD/INT ratio was phenomenal (13 TD's to only 5 INT's with 3 of those 5 coming in the Baltimore game). He hit a lot of deep balls. His accuracy was very good. If he plays a full season at that level he will be in the Pro Bowl and will clearly establish himself as an elite QB.

    Even then he wasn't the finished article though. Our OL needs to consistently create a push in the run game. When given running lanes, Ajayi is devastating. This opens up play-action, one of Tannehill's strengths. It also gives him time to throw deep more often, loosening up run defenses. That's when our offense will really take off. But, our production averages were good. It was individual drives stalling that was the problem. We converted extremely well in the red zone, but all too often we stalled outside of the red zone. We need to create more third and short situations and we need to convert more third downs. Those things are directly related to the OL opening run lanes for Ajayi. If we do that, then everyone gets more touches. Our biggest problem last year wasn't efficiency, it was not enough snaps. Keeping drives alive will provide those missing snaps, and both the run and pass totals will go up ... and the TD's too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
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  13. fishfanmiami

    fishfanmiami Have you seen junior's grades ? Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Heck in week one vs Seattle if Kenny does not drop that long pass he would have had another.
     
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  14. Travis34

    Travis34 chea Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Yeah I read this article the other day... was going to post it but meh... Its easier to manage the game when everything isn't a ****show on the field
     
  15. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    That can be said for every team in the league. The gloss of a franchise QB alters perception.
    With respect to my opinion of RT. I've gone back and forth on him. Is he a tease or the real deal. I certainly hope it's the latter.
    But, in reading many preseason predictions, it's pretty clear that they don't have a lot of respect for RT. When you read quotes from other AFC East writers (Bills, Pats, Jets) it's clear they think he's just a middle of the road guy.
     
  16. mrhankey81701

    mrhankey81701 A True Fan

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    New England, Atlanta and Dallas were all in the bottom 10 in pass attempts per game (as well as us). The top 5 teams in attempts per game were Baltimore, New Orleans, Arizona, Jacksonville, and Green Bay.

    Game manager is a term that invokes images of Alex Smith and Chad Pennington. Are we going to win asking Tannehill to drop back and throw 40+ times a game, no. But then you aren't going to win unless your QB is named Aaron Rodgers or such. There is nothing wrong with establishing a running game and then setting up the play action off of that. We tried having Tannehill throw 40x, it didn't work under Philbin. What Gase is doing now seems to be working.
     
  17. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Remember though that Still's dropped TD pass occurred in the very beginning of the 2nd quarter with 44 minutes left in the game.
     
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  18. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    I cannot wait to see play action. Especially out of 12 personnel. When they stack the box, we still have Landry, Thomas or Parker to throw it to...They play the nickel or keep a safety back and we use Fasano to aid in the run game. I honestly don't think many teams can defend this formation given the talent we have.

    We should also be able to pound it early (with 2 TE blocking) and set up play action later in the drive.

    Otherwise I think teams can key on which TE is in the game in 11 personnel. e.g., if Thomas is in, there's more inclination to defend the pass. The only downside is that either Stills or Parker would be on the sideline so I expect a healthy mix of each personnel groups. At least not as lopsided as last year.

    If the site I'm using is correct, the Dolphins used 11P, 74% of the time last year and 12P only 16% of the time. It makes sense when you consider our TE situation in 2016.

    Miami also used the shotgun 60% of the time and was under center only 40% of the time. Considering we ran the ball from under center 71% of the time, it was a big tell.

    https://www.thephinsider.com/2017/7...ld-excel-in-the-game-nfl-ryan-tannehill-video

    I could not find the play action data for 2016.
     
  19. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    FWIW, those are the same numbers and percentages I have saved for them as well.
     
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  20. nick1

    nick1 I am Groot Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    I'm very excited about the offensive potential
     
  21. AZStryker

    AZStryker Pro Bowler

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    Many fans and beat writers undervalue the talent on rival teams. In fact there are many Bills, Jets, and Dolphin's fans that think Brady isn't the best or one of the best of all time. Hardly the barometer of someone's true talent.

    Also, when talking about national opinion, let's take the latest vegas odds into consideration. When vegas made the win/loss odds, they considered all of the variables not just their opinions of a Tannehill. People with an agenda will see these odds and believe it's because they think Tannehill is average. People without an agenda see this and think it makes sense with our schedule, questionable oline, new D.C., defensive tackle depth, and linebacker and secondary deficiencies. It is quite possible that Tannehill puts up 30+ TDs, 7.7+ ypa, 100+ qb rating and we still have a losing record due to the defensive deficiencies.
     
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  22. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    He got credit for a 4th quarter comeback as well as the game winning drive.
     
  23. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Though here, I have 45% UC and 55% Shot, but almost the same percentage as you for running UC (70%)

    I use Warren Sharp's statistics. Wonder if that's maybe where there's a discrepancy.
     
  24. Eesti

    Eesti Rookie

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    Sharps football stats? Same one I used.
     
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  25. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Well-Known Member

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    Meh, it makes sense in fantasy terms. It's the commitment to the run and our piss poor 3rd down efficiency that turns Tannehill into a perceived game manager.

    Miami is a Super fun team to watch, but we're way too risky in fantasy. Nobody knows who'll produce the big numbers with any consistency.

    The frustration of fantasy only speaks to a team's offensive diversity. Tough to try and single out any of our receivers or backs. It's sink or swim with any of them on a weekly basis.

    Fantasy skews your football acumen, badly. But, a lot of their articles are way more professional and technically impressive from a pure stats perspective. These authors often outdo their counterparts by introducing novel trends overlooked by even the most ardent fans. But yeah, Gase in no way set out to make Tannehill a game manager in the traditional sense.
     
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  26. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Ah, I have an old screen shot which can be seen here:

    It must have been updated since I took that from the beginning of the year. You have the most up to date info as it now matches what is currently on the site. Kudos. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  27. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Here's my most favorite recent mumbo jumbo please-step-away-from-the-analytics article I've come across recently:
    http://www.ffcouchcoach.com/team-tendencies-trends-nfc-south/
     
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  28. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Well-Known Member

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    Awesome, exactly my point. Nobody's taking wind speed into account, lmao...Hoo boy, this sport is getting too big.

    Those guys are the kings of obscure stats and creativity. I tip my cap to them.
     
  29. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    Not sure how realistic 50 offensive tds is but I know it feels realistic to me with full no huddle tempo
     
  30. Digital

    Digital Starter

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    That sounds about right. We lived in 11 personnel last year, but as you said, our TE situation kind of dictated it. I expect us to play 60%+ in 11 personnel this year as well FWIW.

    Your stat about under center is telling though. Hopefully we can use that to our advantage with play-action as you said.
     
  31. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    Playing under center is dictated by distance to the sticks I imagine that played into miamis 2016 numbers relative to 2015s where we were always in 3rd and 8 plus
     
  32. phinasota

    phinasota Bleed Aqua

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    So true
     
  33. maralieus

    maralieus Lets get those balls deep!!

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    Tannehill is not a game manager. He may not be elite, but hes not a game manager. There IS a space on between those two. A game manager doesnt make perfect 50 yard bombs to the back of the endzone while being wrecked by a 300 pounder.
     
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  34. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    game manager my ***
     
  35. TannDaMan17

    TannDaMan17 Well-Known Member

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    They all "game managers", such a stupid concept.
     
  36. Sons Of Shula

    Sons Of Shula not a dull boy Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Not claiming Tannehill is or isn't, but when did game manager become a negative connotation for a QB?
     
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  37. TannDaMan17

    TannDaMan17 Well-Known Member

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    Who knows, but I have a feeling SEA will show people how dumb it is to take a successful "game manager", and try and make him play hero ball. I think Gase is smart enough to allow Tannehill to "manage games" rather than Bart Farv that s***, which also seems to be what Tannehill wants.
     

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