GINN - I hate this quote

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by OG54, May 29, 2007.

  1. OG54

    OG54 Starter

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    "He's allowed to have playbooks and that kind of stuff," Cameron said. "He's coming here as a returner first. He'll need to do a lot of studying for that. And then a receiver and he'll learn. Like I said, we've been through this with other guys."

    I am not a regular poster, but this makes my blood boil. I have to admit, I was not thrilled w/ the Ginn pick @ #9, but it grew on me. I know I did not want Quinn at #9. I was hoping Levi Brown dropped to us and when he didn’t I was hoping for Patrick Willis to come our way. But, by no means do you draft a returner at #9 and pay him #9 money! At #9, you need a guy that can come in and start at their drafted position, especially on a team that has not made the playoffs in years! I know this subject has been brought up a million timnes but I just could not keep quiet after the head coach stated that we drafted a kick returner at #9.

    Here’s to hoping I am wrong about this and that his ability to give us the field position needed makes the difference in our games!
     
  2. Farmer

    Farmer ROLL!

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    yea, i read that earlier, kinda ticked me off too, im with you though

    its like he's preparing us not to see him do well as a WR
     
  3. BennyVW

    BennyVW I'm the Man in the Box

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    Do me a favor. Please TRY to list 10 WR's in the last 10 years who were difference makers at WR their rookie years(1000 yards receiving)... when you get stuck at 6 put up a post that you overeacted because WR's take 2-3 years to blossom, and because ginn can come in right now and make an impact at returning while he's learning it's a Double ++....
     
  4. BennyVW

    BennyVW I'm the Man in the Box

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    Thats becasue few WR rarely do anything their rookie year....It's the second longest learning curve in the game behind QB...
     
  5. OG54

    OG54 Starter

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    Benny,

    I am not arguing the point of whether or not he will be good in 2-3 years. My point is that u don't spend a #9 on a returner and even if u do, u don't tell your fans that's what u did. u tell them he will compete for a WR spot and make him beat out Booker, CC or DH.

    i by no means am overreacting. i have waited over a month to speak up.
     
  6. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral King of the Wild Frontier

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    Agreed. And as Cameron himself said, he's been through it before with other guys, so I think we should trust his judgment until proven wrong.
     
  7. MDFINFAN

    MDFINFAN Reach for the Stars Super Donator Donator

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    I think you're reading too much into this..Ginn will be a ST person first as he learn his duties as a WR, Cam knows first year WR's don't do as well, as I'm sure we'll see Ginn in a lot of WR packages as the season goes by..but field position is a key element in football. Ginn is a WR on this team, and he will play that position, but he will start out starting as a ST player first, and backup WR until he learns the ins and outs of the position.
     
  8. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock With stolen wings and evil ways

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    Well, he's got to start somewhere. I mean, he'll be counted on to produce in our return game immediately, whereas we're going to get him up to snuff on being a legitmate reciever in our offense. These things take time, he won't be able to go out there and run every pattern we have on day one - no rookie can. We're going to do everything we can to get the ball into his hands as soon as he's ready for it. In the meantime, we'll figure out ways to use him. Good, solid developmental plan.
     
  9. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime FinHeaven Elite

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    He will be used as a returner this year.Obviously he was not drafted just to be a returner.His wide receiver skills will have to be developed.

    Having said that I think he will be used in gadget or decoy plays to spread the
    field.Hopefully he can stretch that intial role into something more.

    I concur with those that wish Cam would stop referring to him as a returner.Its a poor choice of words IMO.
     
  10. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral King of the Wild Frontier

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    Yeah, you are. They didn't spend a #9 pick on a kick returner. They spent it on a playmaker. Cameron was just being realistic with the fans. Ginn is fairly raw, but has upside. He will eventually be given the shot to beat out those wide receivers, but probably isn't ready yet.

    You spend a top 10 pick on a player that will pay dividends for the next 10 years, not just this year. If he's as special as they think he is, a one year learning curve isn't going to kill us anymore than having a franchise QB learn on the job.
     
  11. DolphinsFan23

    DolphinsFan23 Pro Bowler

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    I think Ginn will get some decent time in there as a receiver this year. It all depends on how well he looks in practice and so forth. Cam will probably gradually work him in. Ginn will be asked to get really good at certain plays and leave the others for the veterans. They won't expect him to be good at everything as a rookie.

    I think it might be a good idea to get him in there every now and then as a decoy. His quickness and speed will get respect from the DBs probably. It'll back em up. I think it'll just be a matter of trial and error with Ted this year. Pretty simple ... if Ted is making plays as a receiver, Cam's gonna put him back in there and try to keep it going. A lot of coaches just go with a "whatever is working" strategy more than you think ... you know, just "feed the stud" ... til the defenses make an adjustment and it doesn't work as well anymore.
     
  12. BillsFanInPeace

    BillsFanInPeace FinHeaven VIP

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    Rookie will take time to grow into thier WR role. Normally at best they start as a NO 2

    By reading this tell me that Cam wants hm to make in impact right away and that will as a return man, then he will grow into that WR role.

    This would not concern me as much as him not being signed yet. Granted not many players are signed but you never know how hard it will be to get these young 1st rounders signed.
     
  13. big fins

    big fins Well-Known Member

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    yeah baby that's for all of ya that jump on me when i keep on saying that why the we pick this kid at # 9
     
  14. BillsFanInPeace

    BillsFanInPeace FinHeaven VIP

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    Tho I can see where the orginal poster is coming from. Eventhough there is a learning curve for a rookie WR. One that is taken in the Top 10 should be able to come in and be something special at the WR position.
     
  15. FanMarino

    FanMarino HOF Pass Master

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    I think alot of people dont like that quote is because for a No9 pick you want more than a Kick returner and maybe its not too much to think that a No9 pick, no matter what the position can be expected to contribute straight away not just on Special Teams.
    Im ok if Ginn gets playing time at WR and contributes and by that i dont mean 1000yd seasons.
     
  16. BennyVW

    BennyVW I'm the Man in the Box

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    I wasn't trying to be mean or nothing, i was just trying to make a point. People who think that Rookie WR's will start on opening day, or "tear the league up" are just not looking at past histories because it just doesn';t happen all that much.

    I understand that now more than ever 1st round picks need to come in and contribute right away, but i am honestly saying that ginn working as a returner, and then as the 3-4 WR will do more next year thatn he ever could if they just stuck him on the outside and told him to run some routes. If Ginn was "polished" and NFL ready he would have gone higher than 9, but he isn't so thats where we got him....
     
  17. big fins

    big fins Well-Known Member

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    bottom line were talking about # 9 over all, out of almost 400 players i think, n ur going to tell me that he needs 2 or 3 years to make it happen? so how long is it going to take for the later rounds players to make it happen 4 or 5 years????????? come on i agree # 9 u better bring something to the team the time u come in to the team
     
  18. John Beck

    John Beck Pro Bowler

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    i cant wait to see fans going nuts when he brings the opening kick off to the house!
     
  19. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    I agree with you for now as Ginn smells to me a bit of the Jimmy Johnson drafting of John Avery a few years ago as a kickoff returner/ running back that never panned out. There is some difference as Ginn has been projected as a 1st round pick the past couple of years where Avery was not and those types of guys usually pan out in the long run. I also agree that WR's do not blossom the first year remember McDuffie whom was a pretty good punt returner his first year and a great receiver later. Ginn's size and injury has me most concerned though which when compared to McDuffie a converted RB turned WR was rarely injured until the end with his turf toe.
    :err:
     
  20. OG54

    OG54 Starter

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    overall CAM needs to use him in a Reggie Bush type role. Ginn needs a minimum of 10 plays a game on offense where the ball is in his hands. if we are only using him as a kick and punt returner that is a complete injustice to the team and fans.
     
  21. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    I agree with you on the surface this has a bit of the smell of when Jimmy Johnson drafted John Avery in the first round as both a kickoff returner and running back that did not pan out. The difference though is that Avery was not projected as a 1st round pick and Ginn has been projected as one the last couple of years. Those types of picks usually work out in the long run. I also agree with the acessment that WR's take a while to develop. Remember McDuffie who was pretty good PR his first year and was a great receiver for the Dophins starting in his 2nd year. What does concern me more with Ginn more than anything else is his injury and size. If compared to McDuffie for example who was a converted running back turned WR McDuffie was bigger stronger and rarely got injured until turff toes ended his career.
    :)
     
  22. DolphinsFan23

    DolphinsFan23 Pro Bowler

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    Calvin Johnson might end up being the only receiver from this year's draft who will be starting their season opener as a #2 receiver. There's plenty of top 10 in the draft receivers that need a year in the league before they get decent playing time and start producing good numbers.

    You have to keep in mind that each NFL team probably has at least 1 receiver who's as good as or better than "the hot top 10 draft pick receiver" coming in. That is, until that new draft pick gets adjusted to the NFL game. Right now, Roy Williams is probably a better NFL receiver than Calvin Johnson by a pretty good margin. But Calvin will probably catch up pretty quick and might be the star #1 receiver in 2008. Roy might be moved to the #2 receiver position by then. Never know with Calvin though. He could be a Pro Bowler as a rookie. He's pretty amazing. He might be the Michael Jordan of wide receivers. Gotta wait and see once the season gets going. :D

    Receivers like Calvin only come along about every 5-6 years or so. Calvin's coming in very polished already with T.O.'s size and 4.35 speed. That's pretty rare. At any rate, if Detroit's QB is any good, Calvin and Roy Williams are going to be a nightmare for DBs to cover this year.
     
  23. endorPHINS72

    endorPHINS72 Restore the greatness!

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    He isn't overreacting. Coach Cameron really needs to stop using "returner" when he refers to Ginn.
     
  24. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan Horror Marked

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    Yes, he is. Because the quote is "a returner first." Not "a returner."

    The placement of the period is very important...:goof:
     
  25. Win Fin Fin

    Win Fin Fin Starter

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    What Cam said in his quote was that Ginn will be a returner FIRST, then he will be worked in to the WR role. Ginn will provide an IMMEDIATE upgrade to the return game (both KR and PR), and be worked into the offense as Cam (and the rest of the coaches) see fit.

    I do think that the Bush comparison is a good one, although I don't necessarily agree that he needs to get a minimum amount of touches each week. Ginn will be lined up in a lot of different positions on the field, from slot to flanker to halfback Ginn will be all over the field. It's likely that Ginn will have a smaller role in the offense early in the year, but his role will continually expand as a learns, similar to Bush last year. Calling for a minimun number of touches is unrealistic, but he will be on the field for a lot of the offense snaps this year, whether or not he is actually a starter.

    Just wait until the first time he can go full speed with the pads on and listen to all of the other players and what they have to sat about him, that will tell the story.
     
  26. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan A True Fan

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    And overreaction like this is why coaches try to say at little as possible. For all we know that means his first week here he focuses on returning and then after that works on WR. We don't know :rolleyes2
     
  27. 23EmilioVasquez

    23EmilioVasquez Seasoned Veteran

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    He will do great at wideout
     
  28. Calgaryfin

    Calgaryfin Well-Known Member

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    With his speed in the right coverage, if he gets open just throw the ball up and let him run under it like a punt!
     
  29. greatwade

    greatwade President LLB/Unicorn/Rainbow Club

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    As a CPA, I present

    offense = 33% of game
    defense = 33% of game
    special teams = 33% of game
    (of course there is debate on these values, but humor me)

    the return man (kickoffs AND punts) is basically the QB and RB and WR
    of the special teams.

    So, maybe, just maybe, this is great value to the team. Even if he
    doesn't PLAY full time wideout.
     
  30. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj A True Fan

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    I hear that the rest of the Ginn family is studyng the WR plays

    so relax
     
  31. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    I just hope he recovers fully from his injury....then we can worry about his kickoff returns, and then how he does at WR. I can't wait to see him in action. Welker was a very good player and receiver, but he never had the breakaway speed that Ginn has. :)
     
  32. VT Dolphan

    VT Dolphan Pro Bowler

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    If it usually takes WR's two to three years to make an impact, how long will it take a WR who is relatively unpolished, inexperienced, and not being given a playbook to make an impact on offense.

    The world will never know...
     
  33. eckonice

    eckonice Offensive Future

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  34. Larry Little

    Larry Little FinHeaven VIP

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    I'm with you, bro. I don't like the idea of spending a #9 on a returner, either, but I'm not expecting Ginn to merely be a returner. I'm also not expecting him to be a #1 or #2 WR this season. Like all rookies, he has a lot to learn. I'll wait and gauge if he was worth the #9 pick after next season. Right now, I'd have to say the guy was well worth the risk. I'd just like to see him contributing on offense, consistently, by mid-season. As a returner... he'll be stellar.
     
  35. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit A True Fan

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    What ever. I always beleived that a Top 10 prospect should be contributing on Day 1. If he can give us great field position on every punt and kick return, then I will be pleased with that since last year we had terrible field positioning. If we could average somewhere between the 35th-45th yard line at each return, then we got ourselves a winner. Good field positioning to start on each down.

    Only thing that scares me is how he takes a hit. Wes Welker took some pretty hard hits that I don't think Ginn could take with his skinny frame.

    It's so easy to be untouchable in college especially with the hashmarks spread so wide and the positioning of the ball, but in the NFL, you will get tackled. Just ask Reggie; think we saw his body bouncing on the ground too many times.
     
  36. PROBALL9954

    PROBALL9954 Well-Known Member

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    What about Marqius Colston from sainst he made impact rite away.
     
  37. shanem40

    shanem40 Seasoned Veteran

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    you guys are reading to deep into the qoute all cam is saying it will be eaiser for him to pick up the return the game then the wr positon
     
  38. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj A True Fan

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    I don't know about 2 to 3, but we will have to give Ginn an extra year

    I think this is the year Hagan "breaks out", I think he should be good for 50/800 or 60/900
     
  39. Spegg

    Spegg Section 429 Row 17

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    This whole thread should have stopped after your post.
    GREAT POST.
     
  40. LarryFinFan

    LarryFinFan Left So Fla, never the Fins...

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    To me, this indicates that Cam is saying that he won't be hurt by not having the OTAs and minicamps that other rookies are getting. Also, this just might be Cam's way of telling Ginn that he shouldn't rush back from the Lisfranc...he can and will impact the team as a returner this year. Most WRs take a year or two to impact the team because at this level they first have to learn how to shed DBs, that they usually don't have to in college...

    I don't think Cam's idea is that all he'll ever be to us is a KR and PR...if that's what you're getting at...
     
  41. zackattack54

    zackattack54 Finatic 24/7

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    I have watched Teddy throughout his college career and even some of his high school career and I'm telling you he IS a difference maker when he is on the field.

    Just watch what he can do when he gets thrown that quick out. Watch how he can stretch the field and let other receivers get open underneath because of his speed. And watch how much better our field position will be this year from either him returning or because the other kicker is kicking it out of bounds to avoid him.

    Teddy has that something special that can't be taught, he IS and WILL BE a playmaker.
     
  42. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran bad spelur

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    anyone who thinks this kid was picked "just because he returns" is just stupid... ALL the things the coach has said and STILL you don't get it...
     
  43. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I don't much like how Cameron has taken to talking about Ginn. I know what he's doing, he just doesn't want expectations because you can fail to meet unruly expectations and it can become a big negative.

    But in the process he's really ticking a lot of people off by making them think he really values what Ted can do in the return game so much as to make him worth it at #9 even if Ted never becomes a #1 star receiver. I know it would really tick me off if Randy Mueller signed off on the pick because he thought Ginn would be a #1 star receiver, and Cam Cameron, the guy who is perhaps in the best position to decide whether Ginn has that kind of potential as a receiver, signed off on the pick because of what he can do as a returner.

    I think if you follow the actions and not just the words, though, you'll see Ted is being counted on to produce at WR. If Chambers is being moved to "X" as Cameron said...well damn, that's now three X receivers (Booker, Hagan, Chambers) with no flanker! Doesn't make sense unless the long term plan is Ginn at Flanker, Chambers at SE.
     
  44. BennyVW

    BennyVW I'm the Man in the Box

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    OK...if there are 20 WR's drafted a year, over 10 years that means around 200 drafted players...of those less than 10 had great rookie season's...which translates into a Success rate of .05%...so a WR drafted has less then a 1% chance of having a great rookie season... so marquis colston is one of the few. or for a better term "an exception to the rule"

    Lets just play a little game. Lets start listing The top receivers in the game today and we'll check their rookie numbers:
    In no particular order:
    Chad Johnson 28 rec 328 yds 1 TD
    Marvin Harrison 64 rec 836 yds 8 TD
    Terrell Owens 35 red 520 yards 4 TD
    Torry Holt 52 rec 788 yards 6 TD
    Steve Smith 10 rec 154 yds 0 TD (Closest to Ginn in speed/style)
    Larry Fitzgerald 58 rec 780 yds 8 TD
    Lee Evans 48 rec 843 yds 9 TD
    Laverneous Coles 22 rec 370 yds 1 TD
    Plaxico Burress 22 rec 273 yds 0 TD
    Issac Bruce 22 Rec 272 yds 3 TD
    Reggie Wayne 27 rec 345 yds 0 TD
    Hines Ward 15 rec 246 yds 0 TD
    and on and on and on................


    Overall as of right now there are 320 receivers with contracts in the NFL and of 320 players only 4 of them could make 1000 yards their rookie season....thats a .0125%...that is less than one third of 1 percent!!!!!!!!

    Here are the facts.
    1. Rookie WR's cannot carry the load.
    2. It takes time for ANY receiver to develop.
    3. Most "big name" receivers did little their rookie seasons, and their no name counterparts did even less.
    4. Guys like Moss, boldin, colston and clayton are all exceptions to the rule, not the standard.

    Now it may seem that i'm trying to stop people from bashing or critisizing ginn, but i'm not. Basically i'm letting you all know that your expectations are way to high and you will be disapointed. AND if even one of you think that Muller or Camron don't know the EXACT same thing i just explained then your just plain Drunk!!!!!

    Will ginn be a starter? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!

    Will he be able to contribute in his first year more than most of the elite receivers during their rookie seasons?...YES YES YES YES YES YES YES...


    So be HAPPY that we will get him significant playing time with ST's...AND he should be able to come in on some designed plays and so forth...but PLEASE stop this "he has to start cause he was 9th" BULL****!

    I don't know about you guys but a bet with less than a 1% chance off winning is called a sure bet...for the casino.
     
  45. phinphan11

    phinphan11 Perennial All-Pro

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    Yea, and when he returns one for a score I bet you'll still be sulking, huh?

    I liked the quote because it shows me that Cam is willing to tell it like it is. Not like Saban speak when he could talk for 20 minutes and say absolutely nothing worth listening too
     
  46. bigmiamifan

    bigmiamifan Perennial All-Pro

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    I think Cam labeled him as a returner because that's all that's expected of him at first. Why destroy the kid with the pressure of being a game breaking WR? Why put him in the game, his rookie season, almost every down?

    We didn't spend a #9 on a returner, come on now. We used a #9 on a WR and returner that will be used as a returner while he learns the WR spot. The #9 is the for the game changing dual threat at WR and returner in one player.
     
  47. phinphan11

    phinphan11 Perennial All-Pro

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    We spent an #9 on a playmaker!
     
  48. bkbuffet

    bkbuffet FinHeaven VIP

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    Would you say that Hester would not have been worth a #9 pick?
    He was pretty much soley a returner, and he had immediate impact. Teams had special game plans just to account for him. Sounds like a top 10 pick to me. We don't know yet if Ginn wil have the same impact, but it sure sounds like he has the potential to.
     
  49. SuperBowlin07

    SuperBowlin07 Starter

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    Rare logic from a Bills fan. I can't believe i agree with a Bills fan
     
  50. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj A True Fan

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    good point

    we can run some special plays for this guy in the meantime that get him in space

    imagine plays where Ronnie, LBooker and Ginn are on the field at the same time

    we never split Ronnie out while Saban was in charge, if we get decent pass protection there will be fireworks
     

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