Ginn's & Beck's Big Hands

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vaark, May 4, 2008.

  1. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    According to a Rick Gosselin pre 2007 article discussing desireable physical measurements by position, a high prospect receiver's hands should measure at least 9 inches; Ginn's measures 10in.

    As an aside, he also mentions that the minimum desireable QB height is 6ft3inches. Neither Beck nor Henne measure up but then again neither does Brees. But please read on when it comes to hands measurements.

    Interestingly from the Walker Football Eval, I note that of the top 4 QBs drafted this year, Henne's hands at 9inches are the smallest . edit:but in Sportsline.com they're listed at a more acceptable 93/8th.. Whichever is correct, they're still smaller than Becks.

    ***For all the Beck critics who complain his hands are too small, in reality at 9.75 inches, they're actually larger than Henne's... and surprisingly Flacco's whose measure 9 5/8.
    citation: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/406245
    (under agility tests)

    Walker link:
    http://walterfootball.com/combine2008QB.php

    excerpted from Gosselin's article, the whole of which makes for good reading.
    Big hands catch on
    Wide receivers come in all sizes. Pro Bowler Steve Smith is 5-9, and Georgia Tech's Calvin Johnson, the top receiver in the 2007 draft, goes 6-5, 239 pounds. But hand size is critical at this position.
    Bigger hands translate to more reliable hands on draft day. Nine-inch hands are good, 10-inch hands are better. Johnson has hands that measure 9¾. Ted Ginn Jr. of Ohio State is six inches shorter (5-11) than Johnson but has bigger hands. They measure 10 inches across. David Clowney of Virginia Tech has 10¼-inch hands. He's 6-0, 188 pounds with 4.39 speed. The NFL loves his measurables.
    Wideouts with small hands generally are moved to defensive back earlier in their football careers. The only cornerback on this draft board with 10-inch hands is Marcus McCauley of Fresno State (10¼).
    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...elin/stories/040107dnspogosselin.3d58630.html
     
  2. dabeastdabone

    dabeastdabone Seasoned Veteran

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    I'm guessing BP doesn't place much into it given he targeted Henne from the start.
     
  3. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

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    Henne is nearly 6'3", close enough that it is not worth quibbling about.
     
  4. popularwar

    popularwar Perennial All-Pro

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    I don't think stuff like that really matters. If people are good players then they're good players. Doug Flutie played pro football forever despite being like 4'2" and played well. On the other hand there are tons of guys with all the measurables who never amount to anything.

    I can't imagine Don Shula measuring Bob Griese or Paul Warfield's hands back in the 70's and both of those guys are in the hall of fame.
     
  5. romio

    romio Seasoned Veteran

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    peter kin said beck had small hands
    as for hands biggest hands i ever saw in person randy moss and orenda gadsen WOW! BOTH OF THEM
     
  6. Phinz420

    Phinz420 The Resident Hitman

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    While this is true and all, let's not forget that these smaller guys who make it into the NFL find their niche and their possitives outweigh their negatives.

    Can you imagine Flutie trying to be a pure pocket passer? Take away his mobility and he doesn't even belong on the field with those big *** guys.
     
  7. Dolfan32323

    Dolfan32323 Troll Carcass Removal Unit

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    :lol::sidelol:
     
  8. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin PowerHungryMo'fo

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    Drafting via excel spreadsheets is what the Raiders do.

    The bottom line is can he play the position at a high enough level to justify his paycheck.
     
  9. XXXSURTAINXXX

    XXXSURTAINXXX THE SACRIFICIAL DOLPHIN

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    Confucious said: "Man who has big hands must wear big gloves."
     
  10. Bigjbizzle2

    Bigjbizzle2 The Legend

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    and now lets finish it by sayin henne never had a fumbling problem at michigan while beck was worse then c pep last year, so what does this mean ....NOTHING
     
  11. Pennington's Rocket Arm

    Pennington's Rocket Arm Sucking for Luck Since 2004

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    people equate fumbles with small hands, regardless of the facts.
     
  12. XXXSURTAINXXX

    XXXSURTAINXXX THE SACRIFICIAL DOLPHIN

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    example: Daunte Culpepper!
     
  13. Bigjbizzle2

    Bigjbizzle2 The Legend

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    I never did it says becks hands were bigger then henne's therefore the logic of how big your hands are matters means nothing for a qb. cuz anyone with eyes knows beck fumbles way to much
     
  14. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    but then again Beck didn't have Jake Long last year and Henne wasn't under center for one of the worst pro teams in the last 10 years..

    Not saying fumbling hasn't been a problem for Beck. It has, as it has for hamhanded rookie Russell too. However more pertinently, Beck's most strident critics point to his "small hands" as the physical reality he's gonna have to live with and work around. Instead, the dispelling of this myth means that it's a problem well WITHIN Beck's power to work on and fix rather than having to compensate for.


    [​IMG]
     
  15. Mr. Magoo

    Mr. Magoo Ayatollah of rock and rolla

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    Didn't Marino also have small hands?
     
  16. FINS4LIFE16

    FINS4LIFE16 Scout Team

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    i remember when they had orande gadsens hands in the news paper....those were some BIG hands
     
  17. moonman

    moonman >tfw dolphins fan

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    how are they measured?
     
  18. Fin-Fan-13

    Fin-Fan-13 Starter

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    With a ruler. :d-day:

    IIRC, the hand is measured from the pinky to the thumb of an outstretched hand.
     
  19. EireTiger

    EireTiger Starter

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    How big were Cleo Lemon's hands? Perhaps that is why he outperformed John Beck with the same 'worst pro team' around him?

    If John Beck wins the starting job in camp then great, but there is no reason to keep making excuses for how horribly he played last year. Cleo Lemon, a marginal NFL player at best, clearly outperformed him under the exact same circumstances.
     
  20. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    hmmmmm.....:unsure:How is proving he's got bigger hands than Henne making excuses? It's actually taking away excuses for Beck.

    And if 5 year vet and Brees understudy Lemon outperformed the rookie Beck then he therefore outperformed last draft's inflatable dirigible flavor of the year Russell too since Beck also outperformed him. And that's with the league's 6th best running attack. Any idea why Al didn't pull the trigger on Brohm, Flacco or Henne??

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Phins28

    Phins28 A True Fan

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    It's not the size of his hands, it's that his hands are full of ****.
     
  22. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Some things are correctable.. then again after reading your post, I'd have to agree that there are some things beyond one's control to improve.
     
  23. JoeRobStad4ever

    JoeRobStad4ever Well-Known Member

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    I was curious about the topic Beck/Henne being short at 6'2", and so I went on NFL.com and gathered a list of the heights of the Hall of Fame QB's who played in the 80's or later (NFL players have gotten bigger as the years have gone by, so didn't want older players on the list), and also included current QB's who I'd say have a good chance of going to the Hall of Fame....here is what I found:

    Joe Montana 6'2" Brett Favre 6'2" Steve Young 6'2" John Elway 6'3" Terry Bradshaw 6'3" Warren Moon 6'3" Jim Kelly 6'3" Dan Fouts 6'3" Dan Marino 6'4" Tom Brady 6'4" Troy Aikman 6'4" Peyton Manning 6'5"
    Average Height = 6'3"

    I think Beck and Henne will be ok, as long as they can be a little mobile. One trend, I see is that the most classic drop-back QB's on this list (Aikman, Marino, Manning, Brady) are also the tallest on the list, while the shortest ones, Young, Montana, Favre, were very mobile QB's (Favre and Montana were very mobile in their earlier years for those that don't remember).

    Of course we are talking a difference of one and two inches here. Like Warren Moon was a definite drop-back QB and he is listed as 6'3", I mean how big a difference doest that extra inch really make...anyhow, just thought I'd share. They don't list hand size on Nfl.com unfortunately (ha)...
     
  24. Phins28

    Phins28 A True Fan

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    Tiki Barber did it so he can do it too, let's hope he improves his ball security.
     
  25. lemonpepperfish

    lemonpepperfish janitor

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    i don't think beck's fumble problems had as much to do with the size of his hands as the lack of preperation that he had. 3rd string at the beginning of the season doesn't get the same kind of reps first and second string do. The kid was a rookie. Let's see if he can improve before we equate his hands with wet spaghetti.
     
  26. RocDolphan17

    RocDolphan17 Scout Team

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    You know there is not a whole lot going on in the off-season, and/or a whole lot to report out of rookie camp when someone actually starts a thread like this and then people actually respond and argue. Honestly, I know it's a "measurable" so we can debate how much it means until we turn blue in the face, but the point is, I don't know of any solid stats showing that guys with smaller hands have an increased rate of fumbling. It guess its a reasonable assumption, but I think maybe some of us have just run out of $H!T to talk about......
     
  27. RaboGrande24

    RaboGrande24 Smoke and Fly

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    yea ppl are going over the top with this fumbling crap. relax and see what a difference a year and preparation will make
     
  28. wyo

    wyo vice ceo

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    I was wondering how big thier hands were since I had heard they both had small hands. Thanks. How big were CP's, does anyone know?
     
  29. satz

    satz Seasoned Veteran

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    A little bit info

    After making Michigan lineman Jake Long the No. 1 overall draft choice last week, Dolphins executive vice president Bill Parcells reflected on a previous time his team had the top choice, the Patriots in 1993, and set the record straight. "We were deciding between Rick Mirer and Drew Bledsoe and there has since been some publicity over the years that I wanted Rick Mirer," Parcells said. "That is incorrect. One of the main considerations was that Drew was three years younger to start with. We were projecting where he would be at 23 years old, as opposed to Mirer at 26. I think history shows we made the right choice."
     
  30. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    How was Beck at BYU? THAT is the fair comparison. I don't recall Beck having the problem during preseason either.
    He had the problem for 2 games. I think Beck, being the conscientious guy that he is probably placed too much pressure on himself to carry this team after the season had slipped away. I believe he was a little tight in those games and has NOTHING to do with the size of his hands or in any way,indicative of a fumbling problem.
    I didn't realize that a rookie's career could be prognosticated simply on the basis of 2-3 games. :rolleyes2:
     
  31. DJRoss

    DJRoss Starter

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    I think wingspan actually might be a better indicator. Some guys may be tall, but they suffer from T. Rex syndrome and even at 6'6" will get their passes snuffed out at the line, whereas a 5'11" guy who is long can avoid the fray. Many think it is so they can see over the line which is a common misconception. Passing lanes provide visibility even for the shorter guys in the NFL.

    However height is commonly accompanied by wingspan. So if you go after the taller QB's you usually have a guy who can avoid having his passes batted down. Again this is not always the case, and it is rather comical to see a NBA sized QB get swatted due to his T. REX arms.
     
  32. Bigjbizzle2

    Bigjbizzle2 The Legend

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    I am not saying beck is a bum or anything but when you have 7 fumbles 5 lost in 5 game you have a fumbling problem. end of conversation. now can that improve yes it can. but lets put this in perspective for you
    first year starters
    Garrard 12 games 3 fumbles 2 lost
    Shaub 11 7 3
    Anderson16 5 2
    Lemon 9 7 3
    Jackson 12 5 3
    Edwards 10 4 0
    Croyle 9 4 3
    Beck 5 7 5

    So Beck in half as many starts as any of the guys in thier first year of playing more then a game or two had as many fumbles as guys that played double what he did. Also, say you project and just double his games at his pace he would have been anywhere from 10 to 15. And do you know him personally to know that he was tight in those games. he would have no reason for that we had ZERO wins not like we were fighting for the playoffs and he had to perform or something.


    Now like i said can he fix it? yes he can. I am not rooting for any individual in the competition. The thread was about hand size mattering in terms of controlling the football and i was simply proving it doesnt matter in terms of fumbling at all. :beer1:
     
  33. $$BWCJR78$$

    $$BWCJR78$$ Dolphins 4-Life Donator

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    I think some people are over reacting about beck and henne. i hope both play very well so we have quality qbs on this team instead of the garbage we have had in the past. no matter what you need 2 good qbs on your team now days.
     
  34. Crayons

    Crayons I eat crayons.

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    Are we rating people on hand size we're so bored?
     
  35. Ga. FinFan

    Ga. FinFan FinHeaven VIP

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    Sorry but you are a little wrong, Henne has the problem, too.

    He completed 828-of-1,387 passes (59.7%) for 9,715 yards, 87 touchdowns and 37 interceptions. Of his pass completions, 118 were for at least 20 yards, but he also had 159 of his pass attempts deflected by the opposition (196 passes defended total). He rushed 180 times for losses of 315 yards (minus-1.8-yard average) and three scores. He posted five solo tackles and participated in 1,567 offensive plays, amassing 9,400 yards in total offense. The Michigan passer turned the ball over eight times on 20 fumbles and was sacked 89 times for losses totaling 588 yards.
    http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/chad-henne?id=252
     
  36. XXXSURTAINXXX

    XXXSURTAINXXX THE SACRIFICIAL DOLPHIN

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    I see your point. So you feel they are taking the same approach in regards to Beck 26 going on 27 and young 23 Henne?
     
  37. jlfin

    jlfin old pro

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    Sorry, don't agree. 2-3 bad games does not a trend make, especially when playing for the mosty dysfunctional franchise in the league last season. Show his fumbling stats in college and compare them to Henne's. Because that's what you attempted to do in your initial post (compare the 2 QBs')
     

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