Gotta be honest.....

Discussion in 'Beasts of the AFC East' started by WVDolphan, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan Banned Hammered

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    The Jests got hosed in NE. How obvious do the league and the officials have to make it that they want NE to win games.

    1) I noticed this LIVE right away. I was on a board consisting of a good deal of Jests fans and for some reason they didnt even acknowledge it. Even after I posted about it several minutes later it was as if they didnt care. I dont get it.....

    On that fumbled KO, the clock magically stops at 2:01...... well before the clock should have stopped. In fact I didnt hear a whistle until that thing shouldve been at least at 1:58. The clock operator stopped that thing before you could even tell the Jests gained control of the fumble, but definately before the whistle.

    It didnt save much time as NE had 3 TOs, but it certainly saved NE a TO thats for sure. Turns out that was HUGE. Well it was HUGE even before we knew how it would come into play because NE obviously wouldve had to burn them all on the other side of that warning and the Jests make a FG to go ahead by 3.

    Now, the game obviously wouldve played out differently so you cant just go with what happened and say the Pats wouldve ran out of time on their drive. Hell, the Pats may have scored a TD to win the game in regulation. But, the point is they wouldve had to burn all of those TOs as opposed to saving an extra one thanks to their clock operator keeping it on the plus side of the 2 minute warning for them.

    I will also say this is poor coaching on the part of Rex, as he shouldve pointed out this error to the officials. Having said that, we all know that if he did throw a fit over it, the officials wouldve likely screwed them anyway.

    2) That late flag on the PI call was complete bull****. The official standing right beside the play didnt even throw it either. That thing came in from way out. And you know that if that had been Brady with that game ending fumble they wouldve invented a rule to say it was not a fumble. The Jests got hosed. Straight up.

    Having said all of that.... **** THE JESTS!
     
  2. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    **** the Jets.........there I was honest.
     
  3. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    But the replacement refs suck.
     
  4. BleedinGreenNC

    BleedinGreenNC Boondock Saint

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    I appreciate that post and i agree, but with that said, i am the type of person that doesnt want to leave it in the hands of the officials. Play the game and put it away so that there is no controversy
     
  5. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    I miss the replacement refs.

    we got screwed but we still should have won. Very frustrating game.
     
  6. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    New England always gets home cooking at their games. I noticed both of those things also.

    Unfortunately, the NFL will never use league employees for scoreboard operation because that would be 16 more folks they have to keep on staff, and they'd never pay for that.

    But the amount of time remaining on the game clock should definitely be reviewable.
     
  7. MR NFLFAN

    MR NFLFAN Banned Hammered

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    Yeah I had a hard time sleeping that night after the game...honestly! :up:
     
  8. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    sometimes you get breaks and sometimes you don't, the good teams take advantage
     
  9. BleedinGreenNC

    BleedinGreenNC Boondock Saint

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    Exactly, that game could have gone either way.
     
  10. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    I hate NE as much as anyone, but I don't agree. On the KO, the clock did start when it should have. The clock is at 2:06 when he receives the ball, and goes down to 2:05 right before he crosses the 5 yard line. You can not expect the clock to go from 2:06 to 2:05 as soon as he touched the ball. That second has to go by and he has to be in the field of play. If you watch the kickoff return for a touchdown earlier in the game, you will see that the clock is at 8:51 and does not go to 8:50 until he is at the 5 yard line. This is completely normal. You can look up any kickoff return.

    The clock is supposed to stop when a player recovers the ball and is down by contact. The Jets player #39 clearly recovers the ball at 2:02, and is touched down at 2:01. That is when the clock should stop. You can't really tell exactly when the official is waving his arms or blowing the whistle, but you can clearly see that the Jets recovered the ball and is being touched by a NE player at 2:01. The clock often does run longer on a play like that, but that does not mean it is supposed to.

    It was strange that the PI came from the back judge instead of the one who was closer to the players, but it was still PI.

    I don't think the Jets got screwed by the officials. For example, the Jets receiver (Hill) pushed off on a 2nd and 9 play in the 4th from the NE 38 and it was not called. 1st and 10 on the NE 22 is a lot different than 2nd and 29 from the NE 48. That drive led to a TD for the Jets and cut the lead to 3. On NE's very next possession, Lloyd pushes off just like Hill and it gets called this time. That was a drive killer. Those kind of things happen all of the time.

    Getting screwed is what happened to GB against Seattle. That was a game ending bad call. Getting screwed is what happened to Mia against Pitt a couple of years ago. That is a game ending bad call.

    The clock play and the PI call were the correct calls, but even if they were not, I don't call that getting screwed. Neither of those things would have ended the game. The Jets had the ball on the NE 18 (tie game) with 2:01 left. What more can you ask for. Get a first down and the game is over. They had a chance to keep the game going in OT with just a FG, but fumbled the ball away. Even if NE had not kicked the FG (from the PI call drive), they would have been in FG range after the Jets fumble and would have kicked the game winner. The Jets had plenty of chances and can only blame themselves for the loss.
     
  11. Locke

    Locke They looked like strong hands.

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    If they scored TDs instead of FGs, it wouldn't have mattered. Hey, that sounds familiar now that I think about it. Must be a Tony Sparano thing...
     
  12. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    you know our kickers this year have attempted the same # of FGs, right? except we have played 1 more game so you are attempting more per game.
     
  13. Locke

    Locke They looked like strong hands.

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    Useless stat and completely situational. Bring me red zone trips and TD/FG percent, and then you'll have a point. More than that, show me playcalls in the redzone. Miami has a talent issue at the skill positions, so trying and failing for touchdowns is different than the Sparano way of 3 runs and a cloud of dust, lest we turn the ball over.

    You claim not to be a homer, but here you are, defending every little thing that could even be considered negative in the loosest sense of the word when it comes to the Jets. You are incapable of letting anyone say a word about them without chiming in. Vaark is right. You may not be the biggest homer on the site, but you are definitely top 10...
     
  14. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    I am not a homer at all and you taking advice from the biggest homer on the site is laughable. I am here to tell the truth, there's a lot of jealous nonsense posted and I set the record straight. Our RZ O has been good but you see one game where we have 4 FGs and you assume all we do is play for FGs. only 2 games this year have we attempted 3 or more and both were OT games(one where we attempted #3 in OT and one where we had 4 in regulation) but please spread the lies b/c they will be accepted on here and you can deflect by calling the opposing fan a homer.
     
  15. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    I don't think the Jets are playing for FGs, but rather the bad play calling and execution are leading to more FG attempts. Why the Jets threw a slant to Schillens on 3rd and 1 or 2 against NE, I have no idea. The amount of FGs Miami has attempted is meaningless since the Jets have a higher RZ scoring attempt %, while having a slightly lower actual RZ scoring % than Miami. If you are comparing your O to a Dolphins O (and are worse) lead by a rookie head coach, and a rookie QB who has less than stellar receivers to throw to, you know your O has problems.


    I think my post with my thoughts on the bad calls got buried on page 1, so I am posting my own quote below.


     
  16. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    your rookie QB is playing in the same system he played in at A&M, neither of us have a ton of talent on O but your run game is better and we were decimated by injury most of this season.

    we got screwed w/ the clock, Stevie wonder could see it. I posted the video, I don't kow what you were watching but it was a different play.
     
  17. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    Your QB is in his 4th year in the NFL. If he was anything close to what you always claim he is, that alone should give your offense a huge advantage. There are no excuses. You shouldn't be comparing your offense to one that is led by a rookie with as little experience in college (let alone the NFL) as Tannehill.

    I'm watching the right play. The clock starts when it is supposed to. That is not even debatable. You can clearly see that it changes from 2:06 to 2:05 right before he crosses the 5 yard line. Watch any kickoff return and you will see it usually takes a second before the returner crosses the 5 yard line.




    The Jets recovered the ball at the 2:02 mark

    [​IMG]



    He was touched down at 2:01.


    [​IMG]


    That is when the clock should stop. If you watch the video and time it, you can clearly see that he has possession and is being touched by a NE player before the clock should go to 2:00. Whining about this is silly. If your team can't win the game when they are given the ball on the opponents 18 yard line (with the score tied) with 2:01 seconds left in the game, they don't deserve to win.
     
  18. JETSJETSJETS

    JETSJETSJETS Well-Known Member

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    Once touched at 2:01, ref has to clearly see that the defender take control of the ball, and then be touched. Watch the play, not the pics. The ref blew the whistle ATLEAST 2 seconds after the clock had stopped. The clock can not stop until the refs blow the whistle. Watch the play again and prove me wrong.

    The PI call was BS. Hernandez didn't even look for a flag until it was thrown from a far. There were 5-6 Pats player on the sideline right there. None begged for a flag. One of their assistants saw the flag from a far and started pointing at it. If players get interfered, they scream for flag especially when the guy next to you doesn't throw it. Its not rocket science. As for the non-call on Hill, he didn't push off. The defender put his hands on Hill's chest and Hill shoved off his hand from his chest. If anything, that should have been a holding call on the D since it was beyond 5 yards. You can not put ur hands on the receiver and slow him down. You can put ur hands on the receiver as long as you are not slowing him down. When the WR is running directly at you and you put a hand on his chest, Im pretty sure you just slowed down his speed, even if it was marginal. Either way, it was a good no call.

    However, bad officiating is part of the game. When you are on the receiving end of it, you feel terrible. When you are on the other end of it, you generally don't even notice is. Jets had their chances of winning the game, but bad play calling on that 3rd & 1 slant to Schillen, and soft play calling after the fumble recovery is what cost the Jets the game. I think Jets should have tried to punch it in for a TD on that slant to Schillen. They didn't. On 4th and 1, they should have gone for it. You don't get many opportunities to beat the Pats so make full use of it.

    Lets hope officials don't make any bad calls in the next game so no one can play the blame game. Ive been very surprised by Miami's play so far this season. I didn't think they would be a 3-3 team thus far.
     
  19. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    How do you know exactly when the clocked stopped? We don't get to see the tenths of the second like we do in the NBA. From the time the clock hits 2:01, you still have 10-tenths of a second before it changes to 2:00.

    The clock is not supposed to start until the player enters the field of play. If you get a stop watch and start it when he crosses the goal line and stop it when you hear the actual whistle, I get 6.3 seconds. We are talking about 4 -tenths of a second (5.9 seconds) for the game clock to still read 2:01. Remember, 4-tenths of a second.

    Signaling does not mean hearing the whistle. If you watch the video closely, you can see the official come in to the bottom left screen waving his arms up (and on the way down) before you hear the whistle blow. We don't know exactly when he started waving his arms, but you can clearly tell that he is waving his arms before you hear the whistle blow. Watch the video closely and let me know how much time you think passes from the time he starts to wave his arms until you hear the whistle. 2-tenths of a second? 3? Remember we are talking about 4 - tenths of a second difference for the clock to read 2:01 instead of 2:00. That is from the time he enters the field of play to when we actually hear the whistle blow, and not from the time he started waving his arms (which we are not certain of, but know it happened before he blew the whistle) . I personally think you can clearly tell who has possession long before you hear the whistle blow, but we are talking about 4- tenths of a second from the time you actually hear the whistle. Here is a screen shot at 5.5 seconds:

    [​IMG]



    I don't think it is out of the question to assume that the official could have determined possession and was waving his arms 4 or 5 tenths of a second before you hear the whistle. When you are dealing with tenths of a second, I think it is silly to say the Jets got screwed. Just watch the play and you can clearly determine yourself who has possession and is touched down before you hear the actual whistle. It is very reasonable to believe that the clock should have stopped at 2:01.




    I think you have been watching Holmes play too much. He begs for a flag even when he is not interfered with. :lol: Not every player complains when they are interfered with. I don't know what you are talking about with the players on the sideline because several of the players were upset that the flag was not thrown sooner. Jim Nantz even made a comment about it during the game. It was clearly PI as Wilson is pulling on Hernandez as he is trying to come back to the ball. Even Junc will tell you that was PI.


    I completely disagree. The play was very similar to the Lloyd push off that got called. It should have been called.

    That is something we both can agree on.
     
  20. 1972fins

    1972fins Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know the Fins are not as good as the jests, but lets face it pats played like **** and you couldn't beat them, both teams looked like ****.
    The only reason why you felt good about sanchez is because of how bad the pats D is, you guys are ****ed.
     
  21. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    Speaking of field goals. Yes we've played one less
    game than you, but don't forget you played one game where you didn't even get to attempt a single one. So once again, your stats that you always bring up but claim aren't important are skewed
     
  22. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    he doesn't have control of it at 2:02 and he's still rolling at 2:01, that was the fastest stopping of a clock in league history. It was 100% BS but it's not why we lost.


    so we played a full game and didn't attempt a FG, how does that help your argument? we played 7 games and attempted 11 FGs, you played 6 and attempted 11 FGs.
     
  23. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    You played an entire game and didn't sniff the redzone. That's the definition of pathetic.
     
  24. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    Read post # 19 on page 2. Even if he is still rolling at 2:01, he still has 10-tenths before the clock reads 2:00. He was touched down as soon as the clock changed to 2:01, so the official had nearly a full second to determine possession after he was touched down with the ball. I believe you can clearly tell he had possession within the 2:02 mark. Can you tell he has possession in this photo?

    [​IMG]

    That is right before the clock changes to 2:01, so you still have another second to determine possession after the above photo. Here is another one that is at the 2:01 mark, but remember, all 10-tenths of the second need to go by before the clock will read 2:00 and the photo below is still within that time frame :

    [​IMG]
     
  25. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    it's not possible for a person to react to stopping a clokc that quickly for it to stop w/ 2:01 to play. It was shady, you know it and everyone knows it.

    ---------- Post added at 11:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------

    you scored 3 pts against Houston, was that much better? we were actually in our game in the 3rd qtr, you weren't.
     
  26. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    Yes, it is better.

    You can also attribute our problems to a rookie QB's first game in the NFL and an entire new coaching staff.

    Whats your excuse?
     
  27. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    but that rookie was in the same system he played in at A&M which was a HUGE advantage for him. Mark's first game he was excellent playing in the same building.
     
  28. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    The entire play from the time he enters the field of play to the time the whistle blows in only 6.3 seconds. That is 4-tenths of a second away from the clock reading 2:01. Watch the video and you will see that the official is waving his arms before you hear the whistle blow. We have no clue how long the official started waving his arms before the whistle blew. You can see in the pictures in my last post above that he clearly has possession at 2:02. Are you are saying that it is impossible for the official to start waving his arms, and the game clock operator to stop the clock within a full second after that? There is more than enough evidence to say that he reasonably could have. The NFL thought so as well.
     
  29. JETSJETSJETS

    JETSJETSJETS Well-Known Member

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    Because the clock stopped at 2:01 and the ref blew the whistle 2-3 seconds after that. Watch the play and HEAR the whistle.

    First off, Im not even talking about when the clock starts. It started at the right time, when the player came out of the EZ. Secondly, we are not discussing how long the play took. We are discussing when the refs blew the whistle to call the play dead. The clock stops only when refs blow the whistle. Thirdly, you don't know if the kicking team made a clean recovery for him to be called down at contact. Exactly why the ref took 2-3 seconds before making the call and blowing the whistle.

    Again, you are trying to twist my words. The clock stops when ref blows the whistle. In this play, the clock stopped way before that. Im not talking to you about tenths of seconds and all that bs. Im not even talking about a split second hered. You can hear the whistle very cleanly and it comes about 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. You can argue the clock has to go the entire one second before it can drop to 2:00, but Im talking about 2-3 seconds, not a split second.

    Again, the clock stops when the whistle is blown. The ref waving his hand and blowing is whistle is almost simultaneous. Almost. But that is irrelevant.

    A few plays later, Hernandez was begging for a PI call. Same WR, same CB, and probably the same ref he was shouting at that gave the PI call earlier. Maybe not all players beg for a PI, but Im sure when its 3rd down and in OT, you are interfered with, you look for a flag and try to make ur case. I know Hernandez did later on.
     
  30. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    Same system or not, he was a rookie in the nfl. Growing pains.

    the 2009 Texans are not even close to the team they are this year an neither is the jets defense close this year to what they were in 2009.
     
  31. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    Hou isn't as good but they were expected to be a playoff team and were heavy favorites going into that game.
     
  32. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    You are basing your arguments of what teams were "expected" to do?

    Seriously, that is just silly.
     
  33. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    There was 2:06 on the clock when he received the kick. From the time he entered the field of play to the time the whistle blew was only 6.3 seconds. That is only 4-tenths of a second away from the clock reading 2:01 instead of 2:00. You can see the clock move to 2:01 and it looks like it stops, but you have no clue how many tenths ran off before the clock was actually stopped. It is impossible for the whistle to have come 2-3 seconds after the clock was stopped since the entire play only took 6.3 seconds. Even if the clock operator stopped the clock as soon as it hit 2:01, the longest it could have taken would be 1 second. It could have come as little as 4 tenths of a second later if the clock operator stopped it right before it was supposed to change to 2:00. This is to the time the whistle blows, not when you can clearly tell he has possession and is being touched down which is before the whistle blows.

    You admit that the official was waving his arms before the whistle blew and that can clearly be verified by watching the video. The rule does not say the clock can only stop when the official blows the whistle. It says:

    I'm sure waving of the arms is considered a signal. We don't know exactly when he started waving his arms, but we know it came before the whistle. It is very reasonable to think that he was waving his arms less than 3-tenths of a second before we actually see him come in the screen. If you look at the pictures and the time on the clock, it is very easy to see that he had possession and is being touched down long before the clock should turn to 2:00.


    The players reaction mean little to me. I can watch the play and tell you it was PI. Junc will even tell you so.
     
  34. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    they missed the playoffs by one game, if they beat us week 1 they would have made the playoffs.

    ---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

    there's no way a clock could stop that quickly, he jumped on the ball and the clock stopped, never will you see a quicker stoppage. we got screwed.
     
  35. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    He jumped on the ball and rolled over at 2:02, and the clock then changed to 2:01 when he is touched, so the clock did not stop as soon as he jumped on the ball. Again, you guys have no clue how many tenths ran off (when the clock changed to 2:01) before the clock was actually stopped. You can keep saying you got screwed, but the evidence says otherwise.
     
  36. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    he wasn't in possession until it hit 2:01 and he rolled over after picking it up, on a normal play there's no way the clock could stop that quikc, on a pile up it's even more ridiculous.

    the evidence shows we got screwed, you are the only one saying we didn't.
     
  37. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    You don't think he has possession at this point:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img685/3800/kickoff4.jpg

    How about this one?

    http://imageshack.us/a/img42/8266/kickoff3e.jpg

    Both of those are well within the time that the clock should read 2:01. You are whining about 4-tenths of a second when the whistle actually blew. He had possession and was touched down (official waving his arms) before the whistle blew. I'm not the only one that knows this. The NFL looked in to the situation and they agree. I don't really care what the NFL says though since I can look at the video / pictures and see for myself.
     
  38. nyjunc

    nyjunc Banned Hammered

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    first one? nope, 2nd one would be about the time the clock operator is pressing the button and at worst it should have gone to 2 mins. I have never seen a clock stop quicker than on that play. We got screwed but again we still should have won.
     
  39. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    How long do you think it takes to stop the clock? The 6 seconds had not yet passed in that second photo. That second pic is at 5.5 seconds, which means that the clock should read 2:01. The entire play from the time he enters the field of play to the time the actual whistle blows is only 6.3 seconds. He was waving his arms before the whistle blew (which can be seen in the video) which means that he had signaled for the clock to stop before he blew the whistle. Exactly how long before is not know since he can not be seen, but it is safe to say that it was more than 4-tenths of a second sooner. That proves the clock should have stopped on the 2:01 Mark and not the 2:00 mark.
     
  40. JETSJETSJETS

    JETSJETSJETS Well-Known Member

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    When I said "clock stops when whistle blows" I didn't mean 'clock stopped when whistle blew'. The clock stops only after the whistle is blown. And the whistle blew a good 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. Watch the play and please stop talking about 6.3 seconds...yet again. We are not talking about how long the play took. We are talking about when the clock stopped.

    Yes, but the ref raised his hand to wave and inhaled a breathe at the same time, and then blew the whistle. The whole process? Maybe one fourth of a second before the whistle blows.

    No, u can easily see the ref when he starts to wave his hand.

    Im sure u agree with junc on everything. Players reaction is the FIRST clue after the play.

    I know you are going to continue bickering around with ur usual nonsense, so unless u have something new to add, please stop. I've made my case. You've made ur case.
     

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