Gotta be honest.....

Discussion in 'Beasts of the AFC East' started by WVDolphan, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan A True Fan

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    The Jests got hosed in NE. How obvious do the league and the officials have to make it that they want NE to win games.

    1) I noticed this LIVE right away. I was on a board consisting of a good deal of Jests fans and for some reason they didnt even acknowledge it. Even after I posted about it several minutes later it was as if they didnt care. I dont get it.....

    On that fumbled KO, the clock magically stops at 2:01...... well before the clock should have stopped. In fact I didnt hear a whistle until that thing shouldve been at least at 1:58. The clock operator stopped that thing before you could even tell the Jests gained control of the fumble, but definately before the whistle.

    It didnt save much time as NE had 3 TOs, but it certainly saved NE a TO thats for sure. Turns out that was HUGE. Well it was HUGE even before we knew how it would come into play because NE obviously wouldve had to burn them all on the other side of that warning and the Jests make a FG to go ahead by 3.

    Now, the game obviously wouldve played out differently so you cant just go with what happened and say the Pats wouldve ran out of time on their drive. Hell, the Pats may have scored a TD to win the game in regulation. But, the point is they wouldve had to burn all of those TOs as opposed to saving an extra one thanks to their clock operator keeping it on the plus side of the 2 minute warning for them.

    I will also say this is poor coaching on the part of Rex, as he shouldve pointed out this error to the officials. Having said that, we all know that if he did throw a fit over it, the officials wouldve likely screwed them anyway.

    2) That late flag on the PI call was complete bull****. The official standing right beside the play didnt even throw it either. That thing came in from way out. And you know that if that had been Brady with that game ending fumble they wouldve invented a rule to say it was not a fumble. The Jests got hosed. Straight up.

    Having said all of that.... **** THE JESTS!
     
  2. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    **** the Jets.........there I was honest.
     
  3. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    But the replacement refs suck.
     
  4. BleedinGreenNC

    BleedinGreenNC Boondock Saint

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    I appreciate that post and i agree, but with that said, i am the type of person that doesnt want to leave it in the hands of the officials. Play the game and put it away so that there is no controversy
     
  5. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    I miss the replacement refs.

    we got screwed but we still should have won. Very frustrating game.
     
  6. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Donator

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    New England always gets home cooking at their games. I noticed both of those things also.

    Unfortunately, the NFL will never use league employees for scoreboard operation because that would be 16 more folks they have to keep on staff, and they'd never pay for that.

    But the amount of time remaining on the game clock should definitely be reviewable.
     
  7. MR NFLFAN

    MR NFLFAN A True Fan

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    Yeah I had a hard time sleeping that night after the game...honestly! :up:
     
  8. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    sometimes you get breaks and sometimes you don't, the good teams take advantage
     
  9. BleedinGreenNC

    BleedinGreenNC Boondock Saint

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    Exactly, that game could have gone either way.
     
  10. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    I hate NE as much as anyone, but I don't agree. On the KO, the clock did start when it should have. The clock is at 2:06 when he receives the ball, and goes down to 2:05 right before he crosses the 5 yard line. You can not expect the clock to go from 2:06 to 2:05 as soon as he touched the ball. That second has to go by and he has to be in the field of play. If you watch the kickoff return for a touchdown earlier in the game, you will see that the clock is at 8:51 and does not go to 8:50 until he is at the 5 yard line. This is completely normal. You can look up any kickoff return.

    The clock is supposed to stop when a player recovers the ball and is down by contact. The Jets player #39 clearly recovers the ball at 2:02, and is touched down at 2:01. That is when the clock should stop. You can't really tell exactly when the official is waving his arms or blowing the whistle, but you can clearly see that the Jets recovered the ball and is being touched by a NE player at 2:01. The clock often does run longer on a play like that, but that does not mean it is supposed to.

    It was strange that the PI came from the back judge instead of the one who was closer to the players, but it was still PI.

    I don't think the Jets got screwed by the officials. For example, the Jets receiver (Hill) pushed off on a 2nd and 9 play in the 4th from the NE 38 and it was not called. 1st and 10 on the NE 22 is a lot different than 2nd and 29 from the NE 48. That drive led to a TD for the Jets and cut the lead to 3. On NE's very next possession, Lloyd pushes off just like Hill and it gets called this time. That was a drive killer. Those kind of things happen all of the time.

    Getting screwed is what happened to GB against Seattle. That was a game ending bad call. Getting screwed is what happened to Mia against Pitt a couple of years ago. That is a game ending bad call.

    The clock play and the PI call were the correct calls, but even if they were not, I don't call that getting screwed. Neither of those things would have ended the game. The Jets had the ball on the NE 18 (tie game) with 2:01 left. What more can you ask for. Get a first down and the game is over. They had a chance to keep the game going in OT with just a FG, but fumbled the ball away. Even if NE had not kicked the FG (from the PI call drive), they would have been in FG range after the Jets fumble and would have kicked the game winner. The Jets had plenty of chances and can only blame themselves for the loss.
     
  11. Locke

    Locke They looked like strong hands.

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    If they scored TDs instead of FGs, it wouldn't have mattered. Hey, that sounds familiar now that I think about it. Must be a Tony Sparano thing...
     
  12. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    you know our kickers this year have attempted the same # of FGs, right? except we have played 1 more game so you are attempting more per game.
     
  13. Locke

    Locke They looked like strong hands.

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    Useless stat and completely situational. Bring me red zone trips and TD/FG percent, and then you'll have a point. More than that, show me playcalls in the redzone. Miami has a talent issue at the skill positions, so trying and failing for touchdowns is different than the Sparano way of 3 runs and a cloud of dust, lest we turn the ball over.

    You claim not to be a homer, but here you are, defending every little thing that could even be considered negative in the loosest sense of the word when it comes to the Jets. You are incapable of letting anyone say a word about them without chiming in. Vaark is right. You may not be the biggest homer on the site, but you are definitely top 10...
     
  14. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    I am not a homer at all and you taking advice from the biggest homer on the site is laughable. I am here to tell the truth, there's a lot of jealous nonsense posted and I set the record straight. Our RZ O has been good but you see one game where we have 4 FGs and you assume all we do is play for FGs. only 2 games this year have we attempted 3 or more and both were OT games(one where we attempted #3 in OT and one where we had 4 in regulation) but please spread the lies b/c they will be accepted on here and you can deflect by calling the opposing fan a homer.
     
  15. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    I don't think the Jets are playing for FGs, but rather the bad play calling and execution are leading to more FG attempts. Why the Jets threw a slant to Schillens on 3rd and 1 or 2 against NE, I have no idea. The amount of FGs Miami has attempted is meaningless since the Jets have a higher RZ scoring attempt %, while having a slightly lower actual RZ scoring % than Miami. If you are comparing your O to a Dolphins O (and are worse) lead by a rookie head coach, and a rookie QB who has less than stellar receivers to throw to, you know your O has problems.


    I think my post with my thoughts on the bad calls got buried on page 1, so I am posting my own quote below.


     
  16. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    your rookie QB is playing in the same system he played in at A&M, neither of us have a ton of talent on O but your run game is better and we were decimated by injury most of this season.

    we got screwed w/ the clock, Stevie wonder could see it. I posted the video, I don't kow what you were watching but it was a different play.
     
  17. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    Your QB is in his 4th year in the NFL. If he was anything close to what you always claim he is, that alone should give your offense a huge advantage. There are no excuses. You shouldn't be comparing your offense to one that is led by a rookie with as little experience in college (let alone the NFL) as Tannehill.

    I'm watching the right play. The clock starts when it is supposed to. That is not even debatable. You can clearly see that it changes from 2:06 to 2:05 right before he crosses the 5 yard line. Watch any kickoff return and you will see it usually takes a second before the returner crosses the 5 yard line.




    The Jets recovered the ball at the 2:02 mark

    [​IMG]



    He was touched down at 2:01.


    [​IMG]


    That is when the clock should stop. If you watch the video and time it, you can clearly see that he has possession and is being touched by a NE player before the clock should go to 2:00. Whining about this is silly. If your team can't win the game when they are given the ball on the opponents 18 yard line (with the score tied) with 2:01 seconds left in the game, they don't deserve to win.
     
  18. JETSJETSJETS

    JETSJETSJETS Well-Known Member

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    Once touched at 2:01, ref has to clearly see that the defender take control of the ball, and then be touched. Watch the play, not the pics. The ref blew the whistle ATLEAST 2 seconds after the clock had stopped. The clock can not stop until the refs blow the whistle. Watch the play again and prove me wrong.

    The PI call was BS. Hernandez didn't even look for a flag until it was thrown from a far. There were 5-6 Pats player on the sideline right there. None begged for a flag. One of their assistants saw the flag from a far and started pointing at it. If players get interfered, they scream for flag especially when the guy next to you doesn't throw it. Its not rocket science. As for the non-call on Hill, he didn't push off. The defender put his hands on Hill's chest and Hill shoved off his hand from his chest. If anything, that should have been a holding call on the D since it was beyond 5 yards. You can not put ur hands on the receiver and slow him down. You can put ur hands on the receiver as long as you are not slowing him down. When the WR is running directly at you and you put a hand on his chest, Im pretty sure you just slowed down his speed, even if it was marginal. Either way, it was a good no call.

    However, bad officiating is part of the game. When you are on the receiving end of it, you feel terrible. When you are on the other end of it, you generally don't even notice is. Jets had their chances of winning the game, but bad play calling on that 3rd & 1 slant to Schillen, and soft play calling after the fumble recovery is what cost the Jets the game. I think Jets should have tried to punch it in for a TD on that slant to Schillen. They didn't. On 4th and 1, they should have gone for it. You don't get many opportunities to beat the Pats so make full use of it.

    Lets hope officials don't make any bad calls in the next game so no one can play the blame game. Ive been very surprised by Miami's play so far this season. I didn't think they would be a 3-3 team thus far.
     
  19. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    How do you know exactly when the clocked stopped? We don't get to see the tenths of the second like we do in the NBA. From the time the clock hits 2:01, you still have 10-tenths of a second before it changes to 2:00.

    The clock is not supposed to start until the player enters the field of play. If you get a stop watch and start it when he crosses the goal line and stop it when you hear the actual whistle, I get 6.3 seconds. We are talking about 4 -tenths of a second (5.9 seconds) for the game clock to still read 2:01. Remember, 4-tenths of a second.

    Signaling does not mean hearing the whistle. If you watch the video closely, you can see the official come in to the bottom left screen waving his arms up (and on the way down) before you hear the whistle blow. We don't know exactly when he started waving his arms, but you can clearly tell that he is waving his arms before you hear the whistle blow. Watch the video closely and let me know how much time you think passes from the time he starts to wave his arms until you hear the whistle. 2-tenths of a second? 3? Remember we are talking about 4 - tenths of a second difference for the clock to read 2:01 instead of 2:00. That is from the time he enters the field of play to when we actually hear the whistle blow, and not from the time he started waving his arms (which we are not certain of, but know it happened before he blew the whistle) . I personally think you can clearly tell who has possession long before you hear the whistle blow, but we are talking about 4- tenths of a second from the time you actually hear the whistle. Here is a screen shot at 5.5 seconds:

    [​IMG]



    I don't think it is out of the question to assume that the official could have determined possession and was waving his arms 4 or 5 tenths of a second before you hear the whistle. When you are dealing with tenths of a second, I think it is silly to say the Jets got screwed. Just watch the play and you can clearly determine yourself who has possession and is touched down before you hear the actual whistle. It is very reasonable to believe that the clock should have stopped at 2:01.




    I think you have been watching Holmes play too much. He begs for a flag even when he is not interfered with. :lol: Not every player complains when they are interfered with. I don't know what you are talking about with the players on the sideline because several of the players were upset that the flag was not thrown sooner. Jim Nantz even made a comment about it during the game. It was clearly PI as Wilson is pulling on Hernandez as he is trying to come back to the ball. Even Junc will tell you that was PI.


    I completely disagree. The play was very similar to the Lloyd push off that got called. It should have been called.

    That is something we both can agree on.
     
  20. 1972fins

    1972fins Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know the Fins are not as good as the jests, but lets face it pats played like **** and you couldn't beat them, both teams looked like ****.
    The only reason why you felt good about sanchez is because of how bad the pats D is, you guys are ****ed.
     
  21. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    Speaking of field goals. Yes we've played one less
    game than you, but don't forget you played one game where you didn't even get to attempt a single one. So once again, your stats that you always bring up but claim aren't important are skewed
     
  22. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    he doesn't have control of it at 2:02 and he's still rolling at 2:01, that was the fastest stopping of a clock in league history. It was 100% BS but it's not why we lost.


    so we played a full game and didn't attempt a FG, how does that help your argument? we played 7 games and attempted 11 FGs, you played 6 and attempted 11 FGs.
     
  23. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    You played an entire game and didn't sniff the redzone. That's the definition of pathetic.
     
  24. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    Read post # 19 on page 2. Even if he is still rolling at 2:01, he still has 10-tenths before the clock reads 2:00. He was touched down as soon as the clock changed to 2:01, so the official had nearly a full second to determine possession after he was touched down with the ball. I believe you can clearly tell he had possession within the 2:02 mark. Can you tell he has possession in this photo?

    [​IMG]

    That is right before the clock changes to 2:01, so you still have another second to determine possession after the above photo. Here is another one that is at the 2:01 mark, but remember, all 10-tenths of the second need to go by before the clock will read 2:00 and the photo below is still within that time frame :

    [​IMG]
     
  25. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    it's not possible for a person to react to stopping a clokc that quickly for it to stop w/ 2:01 to play. It was shady, you know it and everyone knows it.

    ---------- Post added at 11:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------

    you scored 3 pts against Houston, was that much better? we were actually in our game in the 3rd qtr, you weren't.
     
  26. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    Yes, it is better.

    You can also attribute our problems to a rookie QB's first game in the NFL and an entire new coaching staff.

    Whats your excuse?
     
  27. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    but that rookie was in the same system he played in at A&M which was a HUGE advantage for him. Mark's first game he was excellent playing in the same building.
     
  28. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    The entire play from the time he enters the field of play to the time the whistle blows in only 6.3 seconds. That is 4-tenths of a second away from the clock reading 2:01. Watch the video and you will see that the official is waving his arms before you hear the whistle blow. We have no clue how long the official started waving his arms before the whistle blew. You can see in the pictures in my last post above that he clearly has possession at 2:02. Are you are saying that it is impossible for the official to start waving his arms, and the game clock operator to stop the clock within a full second after that? There is more than enough evidence to say that he reasonably could have. The NFL thought so as well.
     
  29. JETSJETSJETS

    JETSJETSJETS Well-Known Member

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    Because the clock stopped at 2:01 and the ref blew the whistle 2-3 seconds after that. Watch the play and HEAR the whistle.

    First off, Im not even talking about when the clock starts. It started at the right time, when the player came out of the EZ. Secondly, we are not discussing how long the play took. We are discussing when the refs blew the whistle to call the play dead. The clock stops only when refs blow the whistle. Thirdly, you don't know if the kicking team made a clean recovery for him to be called down at contact. Exactly why the ref took 2-3 seconds before making the call and blowing the whistle.

    Again, you are trying to twist my words. The clock stops when ref blows the whistle. In this play, the clock stopped way before that. Im not talking to you about tenths of seconds and all that bs. Im not even talking about a split second hered. You can hear the whistle very cleanly and it comes about 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. You can argue the clock has to go the entire one second before it can drop to 2:00, but Im talking about 2-3 seconds, not a split second.

    Again, the clock stops when the whistle is blown. The ref waving his hand and blowing is whistle is almost simultaneous. Almost. But that is irrelevant.

    A few plays later, Hernandez was begging for a PI call. Same WR, same CB, and probably the same ref he was shouting at that gave the PI call earlier. Maybe not all players beg for a PI, but Im sure when its 3rd down and in OT, you are interfered with, you look for a flag and try to make ur case. I know Hernandez did later on.
     
  30. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    Same system or not, he was a rookie in the nfl. Growing pains.

    the 2009 Texans are not even close to the team they are this year an neither is the jets defense close this year to what they were in 2009.
     
  31. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    Hou isn't as good but they were expected to be a playoff team and were heavy favorites going into that game.
     
  32. EvilDylan

    EvilDylan A True Fan Donator

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    You are basing your arguments of what teams were "expected" to do?

    Seriously, that is just silly.
     
  33. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    There was 2:06 on the clock when he received the kick. From the time he entered the field of play to the time the whistle blew was only 6.3 seconds. That is only 4-tenths of a second away from the clock reading 2:01 instead of 2:00. You can see the clock move to 2:01 and it looks like it stops, but you have no clue how many tenths ran off before the clock was actually stopped. It is impossible for the whistle to have come 2-3 seconds after the clock was stopped since the entire play only took 6.3 seconds. Even if the clock operator stopped the clock as soon as it hit 2:01, the longest it could have taken would be 1 second. It could have come as little as 4 tenths of a second later if the clock operator stopped it right before it was supposed to change to 2:00. This is to the time the whistle blows, not when you can clearly tell he has possession and is being touched down which is before the whistle blows.

    You admit that the official was waving his arms before the whistle blew and that can clearly be verified by watching the video. The rule does not say the clock can only stop when the official blows the whistle. It says:

    I'm sure waving of the arms is considered a signal. We don't know exactly when he started waving his arms, but we know it came before the whistle. It is very reasonable to think that he was waving his arms less than 3-tenths of a second before we actually see him come in the screen. If you look at the pictures and the time on the clock, it is very easy to see that he had possession and is being touched down long before the clock should turn to 2:00.


    The players reaction mean little to me. I can watch the play and tell you it was PI. Junc will even tell you so.
     
  34. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    they missed the playoffs by one game, if they beat us week 1 they would have made the playoffs.

    ---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

    there's no way a clock could stop that quickly, he jumped on the ball and the clock stopped, never will you see a quicker stoppage. we got screwed.
     
  35. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    He jumped on the ball and rolled over at 2:02, and the clock then changed to 2:01 when he is touched, so the clock did not stop as soon as he jumped on the ball. Again, you guys have no clue how many tenths ran off (when the clock changed to 2:01) before the clock was actually stopped. You can keep saying you got screwed, but the evidence says otherwise.
     
  36. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    he wasn't in possession until it hit 2:01 and he rolled over after picking it up, on a normal play there's no way the clock could stop that quikc, on a pile up it's even more ridiculous.

    the evidence shows we got screwed, you are the only one saying we didn't.
     
  37. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    You don't think he has possession at this point:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img685/3800/kickoff4.jpg

    How about this one?

    http://imageshack.us/a/img42/8266/kickoff3e.jpg

    Both of those are well within the time that the clock should read 2:01. You are whining about 4-tenths of a second when the whistle actually blew. He had possession and was touched down (official waving his arms) before the whistle blew. I'm not the only one that knows this. The NFL looked in to the situation and they agree. I don't really care what the NFL says though since I can look at the video / pictures and see for myself.
     
  38. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    first one? nope, 2nd one would be about the time the clock operator is pressing the button and at worst it should have gone to 2 mins. I have never seen a clock stop quicker than on that play. We got screwed but again we still should have won.
     
  39. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    How long do you think it takes to stop the clock? The 6 seconds had not yet passed in that second photo. That second pic is at 5.5 seconds, which means that the clock should read 2:01. The entire play from the time he enters the field of play to the time the actual whistle blows is only 6.3 seconds. He was waving his arms before the whistle blew (which can be seen in the video) which means that he had signaled for the clock to stop before he blew the whistle. Exactly how long before is not know since he can not be seen, but it is safe to say that it was more than 4-tenths of a second sooner. That proves the clock should have stopped on the 2:01 Mark and not the 2:00 mark.
     
  40. JETSJETSJETS

    JETSJETSJETS Well-Known Member

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    When I said "clock stops when whistle blows" I didn't mean 'clock stopped when whistle blew'. The clock stops only after the whistle is blown. And the whistle blew a good 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. Watch the play and please stop talking about 6.3 seconds...yet again. We are not talking about how long the play took. We are talking about when the clock stopped.

    Yes, but the ref raised his hand to wave and inhaled a breathe at the same time, and then blew the whistle. The whole process? Maybe one fourth of a second before the whistle blows.

    No, u can easily see the ref when he starts to wave his hand.

    Im sure u agree with junc on everything. Players reaction is the FIRST clue after the play.

    I know you are going to continue bickering around with ur usual nonsense, so unless u have something new to add, please stop. I've made my case. You've made ur case.
     
  41. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    You have not made a case. Everything you have said is not true.



    This is not true, and I proved it by quoting the rulebook. Here it is again for you:

    Where does it say that the clock only stops when the whistle blows? It says "Upon a signal" which includes waving of the arms.

    How long the entire play last is very important. There were 2:06 seconds on the clock, and you say the clock should have gone to 2:00, meaning all 6 seconds passed in full. You claim that the whistle blew 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped. There are several problems with that. First, you have no clue when the clock actually stopped. (I do and will show you below) You can see it move to 2:01 and think that it stopped, but you have no clue how many tenths ran off before the clock was stopped. When the clock hits 2:01, all 10-tenths of that second have to pass before the clock moves to 2:00. We have 9-tenths of a second (nearly a full second) where we don't know when the clock actually stopped. It could have been stopped as soon as it hit 2:01, or maybe it didn't get stopped until it was about to change to 2:00 (5.9 seconds pass)

    Here is how we can know. It can be proven when it was stopped by watching the next play. If it was stopped as soon as it his 2:01, then nearly a full second would have to go by on the next play before the clock changed to 2:00. If you watch the next play, the clock changes to 2:00 as soon as the ball is snapped to Tebow. This proves that the clock was stopped right before it was going to change to 2:00. (5.9 seconds)

    You say that the whistle came 2-3 seconds after the clock stopped. That is impossible. I just proved that the clock was stopped after 5.9 seconds, and we know that we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. That is a difference of 4-tenths of a second, not 2 to 3 seconds.



    So you are saying that it takes at least 2-tenths of a second (2.5 tenths is 1/4 of a second) to inhale and blow the whistle? Good! Now we are only 2-tenths away from the clock reading 2:01.




    Unless you have a different shot of it, this is also not true. The Ref is not in the shot and we only see a hand in the bottom left of the screen.

    http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7395/kickoff5.jpg

    We know that is not when he started since his hand is up in the air when we first see it in the video. He was out of the shot and is walking towards the players when we first see his hand in the air. He has to bring it up from his side to wave it in the air. It is very reasonable to assume that he started doing that at least 2-tenths of a second sooner then what we can see in the video. Remember, you agree that we can see him waving his arms at least 2-tenths of a second before we heard the whistle.

    Just put all the evidence together.

    #1. There was 2:06 on the clock, and from the time he enters the field of play to the time we hear the whistle blow is only 6.3 seconds.
    #2. We know the official was waving his arms before we heard the whistle blow.
    #3. We know 5.9 seconds ran off the clock since the clock immediately changed to 2:00 (as soon as the ball was snapped) on the next play.
    #4. The pictures show the Jets having possession and being touched down before the official is seen waving his arms.


    There is no evidence to prove that the clock should have gone to 2:00. There is plenty of evidence to prove why it should have stopped at 2:01.


    Then you would probably argue that Holmes is interfered with on every play. The reaction of the player means nothing to me. I go on what the rules are and what I see. Wilson interfered with Hernandez. Me and Junc very rarely agree, so if we both see something the same way, it is most likely accurate.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2012
  42. DuderinoN703

    DuderinoN703 I can get you a toe Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Well Sanchez is the best QB in the league and Tannehill, ha, what's he thinking having a tough first game of his NFL career? J.J. Watt is awful, what an overrated hack he is. Why couldn't Tannehill be more like the fabulous Sanchez?
     
  43. DuderinoN703

    DuderinoN703 I can get you a toe Finheaven VIP Donator

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    This is the same exact **** you cried about when people said the Dolphins could have been 5-1 at this point. Why would Houston have gone to the playoffs if they won in Week 1? You think it's so easy to just assume the rest of the year would've played out the same exact way had the first game been different?
     
  44. nyjunc

    nyjunc A True Fan

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    they missed by 1 game, we beat them. if they win maybe the season doesn't play out the same- maybe the win 2 or 3 more games? who knows? but what we do know is they missed by one game on a tiebreaker to us b/c we beat them.
     
  45. JETSJETSJETS

    JETSJETSJETS Well-Known Member

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    Its all true.

    The clock stopped way before the ref signaled.

    Waving of the arm and whistle were almost simultaneous, not three seconds apart.

    No its not. We are talking about when the clock stops. I could care less what happened before that.

    Again, a whistle is what calls the play dead. Without a whistle, players don't know if play is dead. The whistle blew three seconds after the clock had stopped. Maybe the clock didn't stop on 2:01. Maybe it stopped at 2:00:20. Then the whistle blew TWO seconds after.

    Wrong again. We were never arguing over two tenths of a second.

    You are wrong again. Let me prove it to you in ur words. If the play took 6.3 seconds then from 2:06:00 minus 6:3 seconds is 1:59:70.

    If the clocks shows 2:01, does it mean it might be 2:00:2? As in 2 tenths of a second away from 2 minute warning?
    If yes, then 2:06 can be anywhere between 2:05:01 to 2:06:00. Agreed? Now do the math and deduct 6.3 seconds from 2:06, the most time remaining on that sixth second possible. You also have to consider the operators reaction time, which is about one tenth of a second to say the least so even the 5.9 second bs is wrong.

    Either way you slice, 3 seconds can not be cut down to .2 to .4 seconds u claim.

    Yes, hes not in the screen, but when he waves his hand, its easy to tell he was right there just outside the visible area and the moment he waved his hand, it showed up in the screen. You have to use judgement, which I know you won't cuz ur stuck with ur made up 4 tenths of a second bs.

    Yes, there is more than enough evidence to prove the clock should have stopped at 1:59 to say the least. Here is the proof. Watch the replay of the recovery from another angle. You will see the Jets player didn't have full control of the ball when the returner touched him. The angle you can see this is shown after Jets first down play when clock stops at 1:56 for the 2-min warning.

    I never said players reaction is what should be considered a PI. But if PI truly occurred, the WR will ask for a flag...generally speaking. A few plays later, the same player was begging for a flag against the same defender. I wonder why he was begging for the flag on that play and not on one of the most crucial play of that drive? And u agreeing with Junc has no meaning. WVDolphin agrees with me, does that mean me and him are also correct? How can two people have different view of the same play, yet both be right? You don't make any sense when u say junc agrees with u so you must be right. You should visit theganggreen.com and see how many of us disagree with Junc on several things.

    You still fail to get the point. Point is, Jets had every opportunity to win that game. They couldn't. Refs made some bad calls, but they were not the reason Jets lost.
     
  46. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    No, it didn't. Do you agree that the clock should have stopped when the whistle blew? If yes, then you are whining over 4-tenths of a second. From the time he enters the field of play to the time the whistle blows is only 6.3 seconds. There was 2:06 on the clock when the play started, which means 5.9 seconds can pass and the clock would read 2:01. That is exactly what happened. You are whining over 4-tenths when the whistle blew. We know the official was signaling the play dead at least 2-tenths before he blew the whistle, and it is clear that he had possession and was down by contact at least 4-tenths before the whistle blew.


    Who said anything about 3 seconds apart? I said at least 2-tenths and you said 1/4 of a second which is 2.5 tenths. So, we agree on at least 2-tenths of a second.


    You already agreed that the clock started when it should have, and we know how long the play took until the whistle blew. (6.3 seconds) If the clock reads 2:06, and the whistle blew 6.3 seconds after the clock started, it is impossible for the whistle to have come 2-3 seconds after the clock had stopped and the clock to read 2:01. Even if it stopped as soon as it turned to 2:01, the most it could be is 1.3 seconds. 6.3 seconds minus 5 seconds (2:06 to 2:01) = 1.3 seconds.

    I already proved that we know it didn't stop as soon as it hit 2:01 because it immediately changed to 2:00 on the next play.


    We are not talking about the players. We are talking about when the game clock operator is supposed to stop the clock. He is looking for the officials signal, not listening for a whistle. Did you not read the quote from the rule book that I posted?

    We know the clock stopped closer to 2:00:10 (It would actually be 2:01.01 since the clock is counting backwards, but I know what you mean) by watching the next play when it immediately changes to 2:00. This means that the clock can stop after 5.9 seconds and still read 2:01. You can hear the whistle blow at 6.3 seconds. 6.3 seconds minus 5.9 seconds = 0.4 seconds. Not 2 or 3 seconds like you keep saying.



    We absolutely are. The clock read 2:06 and we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. That is 4-tenths away from the clock reading 2:01. We saw the official waving his arms at least 2-tenths before that, so you are really whining over 2-tenths of a second. It is easy to tell that he had possession and was down by contact long before the whistle came, but even if you want to take it to the whistle, the clock stopped only 4-tenths of a second before the whistle blew. 4-tenths is not getting screwed like you guys keep whining about.


    No, I am not wrong, and no we don't agree. You made a critical error. 2:06 could potentially be anywhere from 2:06.01 to 2:06.99. If it was at 2:06:00, the clock would have immediately changed to 2:05 as soon as he enters the field of play on the KO return. You are trying to skip a full second.

    2:06.99 minus 6.3 seconds is 2:00.69, which is 4-tenths away from the clock reading 2:01. We know it was 2:06.99 by watching the play before the KO fumble. It was the Jets FG attempt to tie the game. The clock was at 2:11 before the attempt, and the official is giving the signal as soon as it changes to 2:06. The football actually hits the back of the net at the end of the 2:07.00 mark. So we know there should be 2:06.99 on the clock for the next play. That means 5.9 seconds can easily pass and the clock would still read 2:01. We heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds, so again, the difference is only 4-tenths of a second when we heard the whistle.

    We already know that the play was being signaled dead before we heard the whistle, so again we are actually talking about 2-tenths of a second.


    This is proven to be incorrect above. It is 2-tenths, and it is impossible for it to be 3 seconds.


    How is it easy to tell when we can not see him? How do we know he was just outside the visible area and not further away? There is nothing made up about 4-tenths. What is made up is the 2-3 seconds you keep saying. Get a stop watch and time the play for yourself. I have no faith in you coming up with the correct time, but it is 6.3 seconds to the time we actually hear the whistle. There was 2:06.99 on the clock and 5.9 of it ran off. 6.3 minus 5.9 = .04.


    It is impossible for the clock to have reached 1:59 when it started at 2:06 and we heard the whistle after 6.3 seconds. I'm not saying he had possession and was ruled down as soon as the clock turned to 2:01. I am saying that it was well in to the 2:01 second (2:01.10 counting down right before it was going to change to 2:00) when possession was determined. This shot is a 5.5 seconds:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img42/8266/kickoff3e.jpg

    He clearly has possession at that point and is touched down. The clock would still read 2:01 at that point. The clock operator still has another 4-tenths of a second after that shot to stop the clock and it would still read 2:01. You can't honestly tell me that if NE had stripped the ball away after the above photo, that you would not be arguing that he already had possession and was touched down. You know you would be, and I would as well because it is easy to tell.

    I have no idea what goes through a players mind. I do know the rules and what I see though. It was PI. Me and Junc agreeing that it was pass interference is meaningless. I only said that because Junc is a big Jets fan. He has no reason to say it was PI if it was not. You as a bias Jets fan do. Me and Junc and you and WV can not all be right. Obviously, you and WV are wrong. :chuckle:

    I fully understand that point and said the same thing many times. That is not what I am debating. I am debating that the correct calls were made. I don't like to hear whining and claims of getting screwed when they are simply not true.
     
  47. JETSJETSJETS

    JETSJETSJETS Well-Known Member

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    No and no, and Im not gonna continue to be repetitive.

    YOU are whining over the tenths of this and tenths of that. not me. Im claiming seconds.

    Whistle comes at 6.9 seconds, now that I have the game on my pc and playing it on VLC. 6.3 seconds is ur figure.

    How do u know he wasn't listening for the whistle and only looking for the signal?

    Wrong. 15:00 means the clock can be anywhere between 14:59:01-15:00:00. It doesn't mean it has between 15:00:00 to 15:00:99, obviously. Just look at any first play of any quarter. Clock doesn't tick to 14:59 until after a second. 14:59 means the clock less than 14 minutes and 59 seconds left on the clock. 2:06 means the clock is anywhere between 2:05:01 to 2:06:00. So deduct the 6.3 you claim (or the 6.1 from where the ref indicates the signal) and you have a 2 min warning. I counted 6.9 seconds till the whistle. Add in the reaction time and u have 7 full seconds. Compare that against the 5 seconds the clock ticked down and u have yourself a 2 second difference, the same difference I continued to talk about (2-3 seconds).

    Read above. Im not whining. I already agreed that the Jets had their chances to win and that the bad call there wasn't the reason they lost.

    Wrong, because 15:00 doesn't potentially mean from 15:00:01 to 15:00:99 in the NFL, although any countdown clock will disagree with it.

    The ball crossed the goal post as soon as clock read 2:07. What took the operator to wait an entire second before hitting the stop button? The usual reaction time of looking at the refs signal or whistle.

    The rest of the entire theory is just proven wrong above about clock potentially being 2:06:99.

    No, we are still talking about much more than a second.

    Repetitive.

    Repetitive, and because judging by refs signal, he was not running towards the play. He was either standing still, or moving slowly towards the new LoS (moving alongside the camera angle). An earlier signal would have shown up earlier.

    You must have missed the replay from another angle I told u about. U can not determine if the player had control of the ball or not by looking at a still picture. The ball was moving. Clock operator determined it wasn't, way beyond the refs determined. In such instances, clock operator generally takes his time to stop the clock. Many times we see as many as 10 seconds being taken off the clock before it stops. Its common, so please do not tell me you've never seen it happen.

    So I guess u and junc have the higher authority over who is wrong and who is right. However, Im pretty sure WV is biased against the Jets to some extent, yet he agrees with me. But again, he is doesn't have the higher authority you or junc possess...for some reason.

    Not whining, and not claiming we got screwed. Not the one who created the thread...and no, I just showed how ur entire theory was flawed with the timing.
     
  48. JETSJETSJETS

    JETSJETSJETS Well-Known Member

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    BTW, congrats on the victory. You guys played a near perfect game all around and fully deserved the victory. I've been surprised by the Dolphins emergence this year as a team that was once considered to be a 5-6 win team.
     
  49. The New Guy

    The New Guy Starter

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    Your claims are dead wrong, and you prove them wrong with your own post. If you start timing when he catches the ball in the end zone, it might be 6.9 seconds. The clock is not supposed to start until he enters the field of play. Even at 6.9 seconds, and the clock stopping as soon as it his 2:01, the most it can be is 1.9 seconds. Not 3 seconds. We know the clock did not stop as soon as it hit 2:01 because the clock immediately changed to 2:00 on the next play. That means the clock read something like 2:01.10.


    It is the game clock operators job to stop the clock when the play is over. Unless he is blind, I doubt he is only listing for a whistle. A whistle is not the only signal that calls the play dead. I posted the rule several times and you have yet to post something that backs up what you are saying.



    You could not be more wrong, and your own post proves it. 14:59.01 means that the clock is less than 1-tenth of a second away from changing to 14:58. When the clock reads 15:00.00 on the first play of a quarter, that means there is a full 10-tenths on that seconds. The tenths reset at 0, so going backwards would go like this:

    15:00.00
    15:00.99
    15:00.98
    15:00.97
    15:00.96

    Ect...Ect... until that 9-tenth goes to the 8-tenth, and the 8-tenth goes to the 7 ,6 5, 4 ,3 ,3 ,2 ,0 and then the clock changes to 14:59.00, then 14:59.99 and so and so on. You prove this to be true with the statement I highlighted above. You said "The clock does not tick to 14:59 until after a second. (10- tenths)

    15:00.99 is a tenth of a tenth away from a full 10-tenths which would read 15:00.00. The resting zeros is what is confusing you. As soon as the clock changes to 2:06, there is a full 10-tenths that must be counted before it changes to 2:05. That means starting at 2:06 that 5.9 seconds can pass and the clock will still read 2:01.

    If this were true, then it would be impossible for a second to pass before the clock changed to 14:59, because no tenths would be counted. It would change immediately.


    It doesn't take a full second to stop the clock. It takes less than a tenth of a second. The clock is reading 2:07.10 and he can get the signal and stop the clock at 2:06.99 (which is a tenth of a tenth away from 2:06.00) If there is that long of a delay in stopping the clock at the right time, then there should also be that long of a delay in starting it at the right time which would cancel it out.


    No, we are not. Watch the play before the KO fumble and the play after the KO fumble. You will see that the clock just changes to 2:06 when the clock should be stopped, and changes to 2:00 immediately on the next play. Because of this, we know that we have a full 2:06. The play took 6.3 until we hear the whistle, and 5.9 seconds passed on the clock. That is a difference of 4-tenths of a second.

    You can see him taking steps towards the players in the video. We don't know how many since we don't get to see where he started from. It doesn't even matter since we can see him waving his arms at least 2-tenths before the whistle blows. It is ridiculous to whine about getting screwed if the clock operator stopped the clock 2-tenths of a second too soon.

    The pic is from the video, and you can clearly tell in the video that he had possession and was being touched down. Are you telling me that you would be arguing that it should be NE's ball if they manage to strip it away from the Jets player after that point in the picture? No, you would be saying that he is clearly down by contact with possession. That pic came at 5.5, and the whistle came at 6.3.

    The authority is the rules of the game and the officials who enforce them. I am not an official, but I can clearly see that it was PI. I have no way to prove it to you.


    It is your posts that have been wrong, and continue to be.


    Thanks! That was a bad way for Jets to enter the bye. Things look really bad for them, but with all the mediocrity in the AFC and the schedule, you never know what can happen in the 2nd half of the season.
     
  50. JETSJETSJETS

    JETSJETSJETS Well-Known Member

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    2 seconds is within my 2 to 3 second claim.

    U said "He is looking for the officials signal, not listening for a whistle".

    When the clock hits 0:00, that doesn't mean it still has anywhere from 0:00:00 to 0:00:99. It means, the most the clock can have on it is 0 seconds. Similarly, when the very first play of the quarter takes place, the clock doesn't tick down to 14:59 until after a complete second, plus reaction time. Just look at any play and it'll prove u wrong, just like on every subject you are talking about.

    Again, on the NFL clock, the clock is different from a countdown clock or the nba clock. NBA clock has tenths of seconds (or maybe even hundredths of seconds?) to show that 0:00 can be 0:00:9, almost an entire second. In the NFL, the clock only ticks to the next second (2:01 for instance) when it has 2:01 seconds OR less. 2:00:01 will read as 2:01 on the NFL clock and my theory is proven when u see the very first play of any quarter where the clock doesn't change to 14:59 until a full second after the snap.

    I should, but it doesn't. just take a look.

    Wrong as proven above.

    2:06 means that it has 2 mins and 6 seconds OR less on the clock.

    Again, those 2- tenths of a second according to ur reading (or more than a second according to my calculations) makes a huge difference.

    I didn't say anything about the ball being stripped. U are still not looking at the following replay I've mentioned. Maybe because u don't want to. It shows the player didn't have full control of the ball when he was touched...and the clock operator can not determine all by himself to stop the clock before getting the signal from the ref. Where the clock operator does have the right to stop the clock would be on an incomplete pass where he doesn't need a refs signal to determine the play is dead, not on a fumble recovery where there is a pile. Common sense. Clock operator has rules to follow, and they are not very complicated.

    Apparently, the official standing couple of steps away from the play didn't think it was PI, but you, who hardly had a good angle of the play, determines that it was a clear PI. You don't have a way to prove it to me because there is NO evidence of it.

    My posts are wrong according to you, not according to the nfl time clock.

    When Revis went down, so did my hopes for the season. He was a big part of how Jets play D. They played well against the Pats but Jets needed everything to go in their favor to win many games. Then Holmes went down. Keller had been out. Hill was out with hammy too. Kerley wasn't 100%. Shonn got bruised up. Bilal Powell got knocked out. McKnight, Schillen, Bart Scott. The list is long with the injuries on the Jets side. The OL is playing terrible and so are the defensive front 7. And then a lot of boneheaded plays by the CS. I still think Jets can win 9 games, but thats only because its a weak schedule for our division this year. Sanchez played very good against the Pats but threw some bad passes under pressure a 9 year old could complete. When there's no pressure, Sanchez plays well. Now its up to the CS to prove their worth for the 2nd half to keep their jobs.
     

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