Handing out big $$$ to Branch & Kiko instead of committing that money to a guard??

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Snoop, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. Ruckus45

    Ruckus45 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    If your FO is opening up the checkbook for a Guard you have the wrong FO.
     
  2. Ruckus45

    Ruckus45 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Can never have enough talent at the DE position to get after QBs and stop the run.
     
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  3. BlueUndertow

    BlueUndertow Well-Known Member

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    And on top of that, the Dolphins Front Office restructured Hayes contract to let him be a free agent at the end of year (instead of being under contract for the relatively cheap rate of $5M). So next year, the Dolphins will likely have to be in the market for a DE again. Pretty brilliant forward thinking. And by brilliant, I mean stupid.
     
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  4. Sherif

    Sherif Pro Bowler

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    There were a lot of needs, and impossible to fill them all in one draft. LB, DT, OL and DE since it was a DE rich draft. It will take some time and luck to upgrade this team to perennial contender.
     
  5. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    If they think Larson is a competent starter then you may have same issue
     
  6. traptses

    traptses Starter

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    If that happened, this board would be a riot when McMillan went down leaving us with nothing at LB
     
  7. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Well-Known Member

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    Crappy O-Line draft.
    Lisa Lamp-anelli is already out for the season and Cam Robinson is too aloof to play Guard
    Overpriced guards in free agency.

    We gave 12 Million to Super Mario last year. So we really gained a lot of cap space.
    William Hayes being snatched up was a huge win for the FO.
    Branch's contract might be viewed as steep, but Gase really likes his professionalism.
    Don't even start with Harris, his pressures are well above average already and did you see his bull rush against Baltimore?

    Kiko played outstanding last year and he was asked to plug holes. Which is not even his forte.

    I'm sorry your sense of value is butthurt, but I absolutely applaud our front office for their work in the offseason.

    Now pull yourself together and get a grip, we're still only halfway through preseason for crying out loud...

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

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    This is the 2nd most frustrating commentary of his off season, after why didn't we sign the guard that wasnt available this offseason . We signed Branch before we TRADED for Hayes, and a over a month before we drafted Hayes. We had no idea who would be available in the draft, or if we could get a good de via trade. All of that is irrelevant as our 4th DE will get 30-40% of our defensive snaps; thus making your 3rd and 4th DE almost as important as your 1st and 2nd.
     
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  9. Kingdom Come

    Kingdom Come Well-Known Member

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    It really,really does look awful for the FO. I mean like....a fifth grader could have managed things better.

    The only thing that makes sense to me is that they must really like the youngsters Steen and Brendel, and Asiata was expected to contend for a starting role in 2018. Maybe they thought they already had a good prospect to lock down LG and Asiata was RG of the future. Obviously, Larson was a stopgap.

    If Brendel and Steen end up playing well this year, then hey, I'd be happy to be wrong.

    Steen played hurt last year, so maybe? Brendel checked all the boxes coming into the league except size and strength. He has added some size; whether or not he is going to be able to anchor against the best DT's in the league is another matter.
     
  10. Danny

    Danny FinHeaven VIP

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    As always the board is divided....lol.....but there's nothing wrong with that. It's part of being a fan. Both sides are making some strong points. I'm very worry about the guard position and the whole o-line really. At the same time I'm happy we drafted Harris. We need a consistent pass rush. Branch? imo he's average. 5.5 sacks is just average but at least he did play hard so I'm hoping he'll do better with more snaps this year. We had a lot of holes to fill but you have to put that on the FO. If they hadn't missed so many times in the past then we wouldn't have so many holes to fill so you can't have it both ways. I'm hoping for the best of course. Some people hae everything the FO does and some people love everything the FO does. I like some of the things they did but not others. What is so wrong with saying that?

    Ozzy rules!!
     
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  11. boynamedsuh

    boynamedsuh Active Member

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    Ya bro shame on him for trying to start a conversation on a message board. Congrats on being that guy.

    Didnt understand the branch signing, ok with kiko
     
  12. Superself

    Superself If you want to, we can supply you.

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    Hmmm IDK but maybe DE is considered a premium position?? Oh and Branch didn't get big money.
     
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  13. Buff

    Buff From a galaxy far far away.... Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Every year, most players wage increases if they have started the full season or proved they can play in the NFL. This is the case with these two. Kiki was a must sign IMO and Branch too was important. If we let either go, we would have had to fork out as much to get a replacement player or more depending on the market value....and thats going up.
     
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  14. John813

    John813 Well-Known Member

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    1. Probably could of held off on giving Kiko the long term deal. Wait and see how he did at WOLB, since he was a RFA and tendered. Guess they felt comfortable about him doing better there.
    2. I wanted a guard higher up in the draft. Didn't work out that way. Don't really care for building the interior of the line through FA. The few good linemen that slip to FA get paid like great players.
    3. Wake is old, Hayes is an UFA and Branchs deal is set up where he can be cut next year without much repercussion. DE is a position that is starting to get close to Quarterback $$$ #'s for elite players. It's obviously TBD how good Harris can be, but we have a DE under contract for up to 5 years for not a lot of money. He isn't a perfect DE, but I think if he can put in the work, along with the coaching staff, he can become a very good pass rusher.
     
  15. Snoop

    Snoop A True Fan

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    $8.5M a year isn't crazy money, my whole argument is that it's close to what we paid both Branch and Kiko, 2 guys who are far from special, given the circumstances its clearly more worthwhile to spend it on a Warford or Leary.

    I wish this were the case but it isn't. His cap number is $10M next year, cutting him brings almost $12M in dead money which means regardless of how he plays this year he isn't going anywhere until 2019.
     
  16. Snoop

    Snoop A True Fan

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    We owned the rights to Kiko, he wasn't going anywhere, if he left we'd have received a 1st rounder.
     
  17. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Wow!!! You Butt-hurt, Kiko is not that good, and did not deserve a contract bunch are starting to get soooo boring...and now Snoop also has a problem with Cuban?
    [​IMG]
     
  18. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    No need to call people out guys. Just debate the topics please.
     
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  19. where's th'fish

    where's th'fish Scout Team Donator

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    I like the idea of continuity, getting the right system fits and betting on them. Let's hope it works out. If we fail, at least we tried something new. What really, really burns, though, is we let Vernon go after he got 30 QB hits and 35.5 hurries, and most of us felt he wasn't that good and his numbers were inflated by playing opposite Wake. A year later, Branch comes in and produces 9 hits and 20 hurries... and Vernon gets 19 hits and 66 hurries. While he counts about 60% more against the cap, that was money well spent for the Giants :cry
     
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  20. JakeemThe Dream

    JakeemThe Dream A True Fan

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    Kiko played out of position last year and still had a pretty good year. The FO thought his was vital part of the franchise and as of right now I don't have any complaints about how Grier and Gase have operated. It would be naive to think we overpaid for Branch when there was other teams willing to pay the same or more. Branch is a young DE who obviously isn't a pro bowler but he didn't get paid like one. He got paid like a starting 28 yr old DE who is a 6-8 sack guy. Branch has huge support from his teammates which is a big deal considering great teams care about each other and stick together on and off the field. I think everyone needs to get used to the idea that contracts are rising rapidly. Everyone thought we were stupid for paying a HOF DT but wait til Mack, Donald, Clowney are going to get paid. We will see Kiko at his natural position and if Branch can get 6-7 sacks it's worth the money.
     
  21. JakeemThe Dream

    JakeemThe Dream A True Fan

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    Hayes has already said he wants to be a Miami Dolphin for the rest of his career. The FO probably already has had discussions with him about his future.

    And here’s some more good news about Hayes.

    He loves Miami. He loves Gase. He loves his teammates.

    Hayes is trying not to make too many bold statements before the season even starts. But this is pretty bold: he’s already decided he’d like to finish his career as a Dolphin.

    “I’m happy,” Hayes said. “I want to spend the rest of my little career I’ve got left out here. And just give them everything I’ve got. I’m enjoying myself and having fun. It’s a good situation.”

    http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachp...e-wants-to-finish-his-career-a-miami-dolphin/
     
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  22. Superself

    Superself If you want to, we can supply you.

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    Defense wins.... Not guards. Point blank period.
    As much as I dissed Kiko, I'm not against giving him a new contract because I doubt any player can jump into a new system and have trash playing around them without having some bad plays.

    Signing Branch was common sense. You don't let talent like that walk out the door.
     
  23. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    We have spent a ton of resources these past 10 years on the oline so I am not a huge fan of spending more with the underwhelming results we have gotten for the cost
     
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  24. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    We have spent a ton of resources these past 10 years on the oline so I am not a huge fan of spending more with the underwhelming results we have gotten for the cost
     
  25. Asicswrg85

    Asicswrg85 A True Fan

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    Lol we traded for Hayes 2 days after resigning branch, so I'm pretty sure they were already having conversations with the Rams. So regardless of the draft they paid 1 guy to be top 10 money and traded for another guy who started the year before. Still doesn't make sense to me
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  26. Asicswrg85

    Asicswrg85 A True Fan

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    9th highest paid 4-3 DE actually so not sure how that isn't big money for him
     
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  27. Atila

    Atila Atila - the freshmaker. Finheaven VIP

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    This post deserves to be seen again.

    Don't expect our management to plug every single hole in one offseason. They did a lot of good this year.
     
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  28. Superself

    Superself If you want to, we can supply you.

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    For him or for the position? Branch is starting at a premier position....How much do you think you could have low balled him for to keep him? Remember that the coaches love this guy and want to reward him for reasons not seen on a stat sheet.
     
  29. Always Next Year

    Always Next Year Starter

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    Only about half of the teams in the NFL run the 4-3 as a base, so your post is somewhat misleading.
     
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  30. Dajesus

    Dajesus A True Fan

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    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/2016-snap-counts.htm
    Please follow that link. Our 4th De in snap counts last year had 38% of our snaps. That means you 3rd and 4th guys play 40% of the snaps. You need a lot of quality at DE.
     
  31. Sirspud

    Sirspud Pro Bowler

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    Its ridiculous that anyone who watched how undermanned that defense still ways last year could question money being spent there. We at least brought some options in for the o-line but unfortunately injuries a couple deep are going to make that a terrible position. We scarcely even had those guys at LB and we lost two of the four we have so............probably a long season even with Kiko locked up.
     
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  32. Buff

    Buff From a galaxy far far away.... Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Snoop, how do you figure we would have gotten a 1st rounder if Kiko left?
     
  33. Yessir

    Yessir Dolfan for Life Donator

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    I would've let Kenny Stills go in in free agency, and pushed harder to sign Kevin Zeitler. The Dolphins refusal to put premium resources in the guard position was very arrogant. We aren't the Patriots, don't coach like them, and didn't have the QB like them. I don't know why they thought they had the clout to have that mindset.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  34. Spiff

    Spiff Starter Finheaven VIP

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    I think what you cannot underestimate when discussing Branch, Alsonso and Stills is the culture factor. When you just finished your first season as the head coach and you're still trying to establish a winning culture, you reward your own guys for their good performances. That's why these guys got their extensions: they had very good seasons and deserved the money they got. Play well, get paid. Works wonders in the locker room.
     
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  35. Yessir

    Yessir Dolfan for Life Donator

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    "Culture" isn't going to count for jack **** if your guards aren't NFL caliber.
     
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  36. Snoop

    Snoop A True Fan

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    We retained two mediocre players on a ****ty defense with big money deals.
     
  37. Yessir

    Yessir Dolfan for Life Donator

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    Branch and Alonso are solid. We needed those guys. Our defense wasn't bad because of those two. Our Defense was bad because of injuries, and the lack of talent surrounding them. The D-tackles aside Suh were terrible, our linebackers outside of Kiko were dreadful (we had Spencer Paysinger apart of nickel packages for godsake), and the safety position was a wreck due to the Reshad Jones injury.

    With Reshad Jones back, and the addition of Timmons and Hayes, we have a chance to field at least an average run defense. And if Davon Goddchaux carries over his impressive showing into the season, we're golden.
     
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  38. russianbear

    russianbear FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    That's one interpretation.

    Another is we proactively retained two of our better performing players from our ****ty defense last year. Otherwise we would have been even more undermanned, or had to pay a theif's ransom later down the road.

    But at least we would have had a guard to protect our backup qb in Cutler.

    There are plenty of ways to interpret the FOs decision. I don't mind neither the Kiko nor Branch deals.
     
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  39. Snoop

    Snoop A True Fan

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    He was restricted and they slapped him with a 1st round tender. Of course no team would be dumb enough to give up a 1st for him, nor a 2nd or a 3rd, probably not even a 4th.

    But by prematurely signing a mediocre, injury prone player to an extension we sacrificed a great advantage, no matter how good a player is, when he's restricted his team gets to choose between 3 tender amounts, and all 3 are for 1 year deals below $4M. And if he signs an offer sheet that you choose not to match, you're eligible to get a high pick in return. The Patriots were able to give Stephen Gilmore $65 million because their other starting corner is a RFA making $3.9M this year despite being one of the best corners in football.
     
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  40. thefieds

    thefieds Rookie

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    I don't think the line will be a problem because we finally have a QB with some pocket presence.
     

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