Harris Island
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There's no guarantees that Charles Harris turns out to be a great pick. But based on what I've seen, he certainly has the tools. He shows a terrific first step, an advanced spin move and power in his bull rush. He is also said to be someone who works extremely hard so that is obviously in his favor.
He looks strong as well so maybe what he needs is technique work to become better in the run game. I'll let other posters talk more to that point as to whether that's more of a coachable flaw. I don't care that he's only a "situational" guy to begin with. That's not a big negative to me if he's productive as a pass rusher.
I probably would have gone Rueben Foster there, but getting someone with 10+ sack potential makes a lot of sense for a team that was near the bottom rung with just 33 sacks last year.
He looks strong as well so maybe what he needs is technique work to become better in the run game. I'll let other posters talk more to that point as to whether that's more of a coachable flaw. I don't care that he's only a "situational" guy to begin with. That's not a big negative to me if he's productive as a pass rusher.
I probably would have gone Rueben Foster there, but getting someone with 10+ sack potential makes a lot of sense for a team that was near the bottom rung with just 33 sacks last year.
zach54marino13
Driven to Therapy
How atrocious were we on 3rd down? Those of you bitching just forget? Is it bad memory? Is it that you can only tunnel focus on what's current? Is it that you are invested on a stance of proving you can be an armchair guru? Even if the only thing Harris does all year is come in on 3rd down and puts pressure on the QB, he was worth the pick.
Would a starter at number 1 been ideal? It goes without saying. But as the thread mentions, Harris is the future. Cameron Wake is 35.
As to the run D, we have one of the best in the league in Suh and we still get punished inside. So the fact Harris needs work in the run is the pick that will ruin us? Less we forget the primary objectives of a DE is to contain and pressure the QB. Our LBing core is much improved. That should greatly help the run D.
We're all sooooo smart that we were discussing a player who fell to the 2nd round. So buck up and keep positive and if you think you know something they don't, you're an absolute moron. Sorry if I offend.
Look at it this way if you don't like the pick and need help staying positive, a few years back, we would've traded up for Harris.
As much as I'm supporting the pick, I don't know WTF we have in Harris. I'm basing the positivity on the current brain-trust seemingly having a solid draft and not shtting the bed.
And at this point, gentlemen, not shtting the bed on draft day with cute moves is even more exciting than a possible future sack machine. That's how bad we've been.
As for the future, if you have a crystal ball please let me know where I can get one. And if you have watched the highlights and are not impressed with his first step and his Wake-like ability to get around the tackle, you have an agenda.
Would a starter at number 1 been ideal? It goes without saying. But as the thread mentions, Harris is the future. Cameron Wake is 35.
As to the run D, we have one of the best in the league in Suh and we still get punished inside. So the fact Harris needs work in the run is the pick that will ruin us? Less we forget the primary objectives of a DE is to contain and pressure the QB. Our LBing core is much improved. That should greatly help the run D.
We're all sooooo smart that we were discussing a player who fell to the 2nd round. So buck up and keep positive and if you think you know something they don't, you're an absolute moron. Sorry if I offend.
Look at it this way if you don't like the pick and need help staying positive, a few years back, we would've traded up for Harris.
As much as I'm supporting the pick, I don't know WTF we have in Harris. I'm basing the positivity on the current brain-trust seemingly having a solid draft and not shtting the bed.
And at this point, gentlemen, not shtting the bed on draft day with cute moves is even more exciting than a possible future sack machine. That's how bad we've been.
As for the future, if you have a crystal ball please let me know where I can get one. And if you have watched the highlights and are not impressed with his first step and his Wake-like ability to get around the tackle, you have an agenda.
Just a heads up, we were fourth best in the league in stopping the opponent on 3rd down at 36.2% (77/213). It was our difficulty stopping teams on 1st and 2nd down that hurt us the most. And those are most likely times when Harris will not be on the field. Food for thought.
A project because he's got multiple things to learn to have any consistent success at the next level. There's def more than one hole in his game. He needs a counter to his spin move, he needs to get off blocks better in the run game instead of just chasing the ball and so on. These things are very coachable but even then his upside based on physical size and speed limitations isn't as high as I would like given the compatible talent at his and other positions at that pick. Could have easily traded back and maybe still have gotten him, lamp or one of the other pass rushers.
Point being that the "experts" can be trash as we've missed on a majority of our picks. Pretty safe to assume that nobody though ginn was a good pick, I wanted Patrick Willis. Pretty safe to also assume a good majority of people, myself included, were banging the table for drew Brees over jamar Fletcher. Randy moss or john Avery? Pretty sure no normal person liked the John Avery pick.
zach54marino13
Driven to Therapy
Well eating crow then. Why do i distinctly remember not being able to get off of the field on 3rd downs when we needed it most?
Thats why I dont believe in stats. You say it yourself, our trouble was on first and 2nd so did that affect the stat, not having as many 3rd downs?
Either way, Im wrong just like its wrong to be upset over a talented player who's future is unknown.
By your definition, everyone is a project.
Name a rookie that doesn't have multiple things to work on. A one year veteran even.
Oh and Harris has more than one move....Third link in OP I think.
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That statistic certainly doesn't and can't determine situational factors, so obviously there where a few times when we allowed a critical conversion on 3rd, but it wasn't necessarily due to lack of volume as we ranked #11 overall in attempts against.
Always Next Year
Starter
When they use the word "project" for an NFL prospect it usually refers to a guy that has abundant raw talent but is not even close to having a pro skill set.
That's not the case with Harris, he's more in the "needs polish" category, which is pretty obvious when you watch his tape. He started late in football, junior year high school, so he's behind the curve in terms of technique and game awareness.
But you know what? That's a reason to like Harris MORE! He's had a good amount of success against the top competition in college football based mostly on his natural gifts and relentless work ethic, this is a guy that has already been productive while also having TREMENDOUS upside! He also happens to play a premier position in the league, he also happens to be coming to a team that has a player with a perfect skill set to match what Harris needs to learn, he also happens to have an electric first step that you simply can't teach.
Also, you're "one move" theory is is flat out wrong. Harris already has a decent rip move, and although his swim needs some work it's at the very least functional, so that's two right there. Even better than either of those moves, is the move that is required to have a great spin move, and that is a FANTASTIC speed rush. See, without the tackle having to fear you simply running straight by him, the tackle would not over commit to the backfield side, which is what makes a great spin move so effective. So any player that has a great spin move has at least two moves, and Harris has more than that.
One last thing; people have been talking constantly about trading back with Atlanta, but I've not heard anyone mention one key thing about that: what position did Atlanta draft after they moved up? That's right, the very same position that the player we wanted plays. Can anyone be sure that they wouldn't have taken Harris? I don't want to hear the "we could have ended up with player x", because Harris is obviously the guy we wanted, and with that being the case there is NO WAY you let a team targeting your player into your draft spot.
Wishfishin
Waterboy
Strengths:
• Prototypical size with room to bulk
• Ridiculously quick first step
• Has great speed and athleticism
• Terrific flexibility and balance
• Underrated power
• Plays at a very high level when motivated
• Nice agility and lateral movement
• Equips a variety of pass rush moves
• Strong hands
• Anticipates snap count well
• Great counter moves
• Seems comfortable in coverage
• Can stand up and rush
• Adept at batting down passes
• Vines for arms
• Very, very high upside
• Scheme versatile (4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB)
Weaknesses:
• Seems disinterested against the run
• A little too finesse - needs to be more aggressive
• Doesn't willingly engage double teams
• Hands are a work in progress
• Slow to disengage
• Could play with a lower pad level
• Very raw and inexperienced
• Could get a little stronger
• Occasionally disappears in games
For the OP and other detractors, this is Walter Football's 2010 pre draft analysis for Jason Pierre-Paul. Do you see any similarities?
Give Harris a chance to get in camp, get some NFL coaching, and play a few games before you determine whether or not he's worthy.
• Prototypical size with room to bulk
• Ridiculously quick first step
• Has great speed and athleticism
• Terrific flexibility and balance
• Underrated power
• Plays at a very high level when motivated
• Nice agility and lateral movement
• Equips a variety of pass rush moves
• Strong hands
• Anticipates snap count well
• Great counter moves
• Seems comfortable in coverage
• Can stand up and rush
• Adept at batting down passes
• Vines for arms
• Very, very high upside
• Scheme versatile (4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB)
Weaknesses:
• Seems disinterested against the run
• A little too finesse - needs to be more aggressive
• Doesn't willingly engage double teams
• Hands are a work in progress
• Slow to disengage
• Could play with a lower pad level
• Very raw and inexperienced
• Could get a little stronger
• Occasionally disappears in games
For the OP and other detractors, this is Walter Football's 2010 pre draft analysis for Jason Pierre-Paul. Do you see any similarities?
Give Harris a chance to get in camp, get some NFL coaching, and play a few games before you determine whether or not he's worthy.
roy_miami
2020 cant get here soon enough
He has a lot of moves. He reminds me of Olivier Vernon a bit in that regard, another guy that has a lot of moves and puts up decent stats, but doesn't have an electrifying highlight reel.
.....
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We were great on 3rd down. We're were just terrible at 1st and second down.
Blackshade
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I don't hate the Charles Harris pick but I do think some of you guys are so committed to defending the pick that you have lost some perspective too. He is talented kid but he does need a lot of development before he is reaching some of the milestones I see thrown around about him. Harris has a skill set that is in great demand in the NFL in rushing the QB but to me that is where I part company with a lot of his defenders.
People talk about the kid being a great pass rusher right now who is capable of getting 10 sacks this year or next but failed to mention that the kid hasn't really been that productive against average college OTs. I keep seeing the Dwight Freeney comparisons but Freeney had as many sacks in his last year in college that Harris had in his entire career there. I like the skill set but I don't like the lack of production and when you combine that with the lack of ability against the run I didn't quite see the value at 22. If Miami had traded back and gotten another high draft pick and then got Harris at 32 or so then he would be a pick that I think would be getting much less criticism.
I hope the kid does well and shuts up all his detractors but I do think some of his detractors have valid points about him.
People talk about the kid being a great pass rusher right now who is capable of getting 10 sacks this year or next but failed to mention that the kid hasn't really been that productive against average college OTs. I keep seeing the Dwight Freeney comparisons but Freeney had as many sacks in his last year in college that Harris had in his entire career there. I like the skill set but I don't like the lack of production and when you combine that with the lack of ability against the run I didn't quite see the value at 22. If Miami had traded back and gotten another high draft pick and then got Harris at 32 or so then he would be a pick that I think would be getting much less criticism.
I hope the kid does well and shuts up all his detractors but I do think some of his detractors have valid points about him.