Has Jeff Ireland learned from mistakes?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Perfect72, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. Perfect72

    Perfect72 It's Only Happened ONCE!

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    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fl-dave-hyde-commentary-0205-20130204,0,4926753,print.column

    On the first day of offseason, GM takes center stage

    Dave Hyde, Sun Sentinel Columnist, 7:25 PM EST, February 4, 2013
    There's only one question for Dolphins General Manager Jeff Ireland on this first day of the NFL off-season, and it's not why he still has this chance, what he'll do with $48 million and five high draft picks to spend or whether the next few months will define his football reputation, once and for all.
    It's simply this: What has he learned these last five years?

    They've been pockmarked by draft mistakes, free-agent issues and problems that have translated into four straight losing seasons. Few general managers survive such a run. Ireland has.

    So what lessons are learned as another Super Bowl with winning models passes by? Let's hope:

    1.Don't trade the 12th overall pick. Come on, we're not going to have this discussion again this off-season, are we? Ireland traded out of the 12th pick in 2010. He got Jared Odrick (28th overall) and Koa Misi (40th) for that pick. They're average starters.

    But look what opportunity was missed. With the 14th pick, Seattle took safety Earl Thomas, an All-Pro the past two years. With the 15th pick, the New York Giants took pass-rusher Jason Paul-Pierre, who helped them to a Super Bowl title.

    When you trade down from a high spot, you lessen the odds for greatness. And great players are what the Dolphins lack. Forty-one percent of this year's Pro Bowl selections (32 of the 78 every-down selections) were picked among the top 15. So trade down from their 12th pick? Let's hope not.

    2. With any Top 15 pick, choose someone who can score touchdowns through the air, rush the quarterback or make game-changing plays on defense. Defense and running games aren't winning titles anymore. That game's gone. Baltimore scored 12 post-season touchdowns. Ten were passes. Six were at least 20 yards. Baltimore and San Francisco are built and coached as traditionally as any contending team, too. Both teams scored in the 30s in the Super Bowl. San Francisco had nearly double the rushing yards (182-93) as Baltimore.

    Until the last draft, the Dolphins' blueprint was backward. Take Ireland's 2011 draft. His first two picks were old school: Mike Pouncey, a great center, and running back Daniel Thomas, whom he used a third-round pick to trade up for. Look what San Francisco and Baltimore did with those picks. San Francisco took pass-rushing defensive end Aldon Smith and quarterback Colin Kaepernick. Baltimore took cornerback Jimmy Smith and receiver Torrey Smith. They used their most valuable picks to win the way the game's played today.

    3. Get a red-zone target. Who did Ryan Tannehill have to throw to in the red zone? Baltimore beat New England in the AFC Championship because it held Tom Brady to one touchdown in five possessions inside the 25. Notably, 6-7 tight end Rob Gronkowski was out injured.
    Baltimore beat San Francisco because 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick didn't have a completion in five attempts inside the red zone. Again, defending the pass is a way to win. And, again, you need a proven red-zone target.

    4. Choose free agents judiciously for fit and impact. For Irelands' first three years, the Dolphins spent wildly. And dumbly. Who can forget giving center Jake Grove a guaranteed $14 million? Or getting exactly what they feared and overpaid for in the trade for Brandon Marshall? Ireland now has the salary cap under control. His last two off-seasons of small, free-agent activity suggest his ideas differ from Bill Parcells, who had final say those first three years. He'll no doubt buy a free-agent receiver: Greg Jennings, Mike Wallace or Dwayne Bowe. That's necessary.

    Baltimore and San Francisco again showed the winning model is to build through the draft with significant add-ons. Baltimore signed receiver Jacoby Jones, for instance, for two years and $7 million. He scored two Super Bowl touchdowns.

    5. Speed wins. Again, the Parcells Way was big and strong. Ireland has tried, by increments, to change that the last two drafts. But the reason the Dolphins have trouble causing turnovers is end Cameron Wake and safety Reshad Jones are the only players with speed on the defense.
    Baltimore general manager Ozzie Newsome's No. 1 tangible for picking players? "Speed,'' he said in Super Bowl week.

    So before we get to the question of what the Dolphins do as the NFL now turns to the off-season. It's something simpler. What has Ireland learned these last five years? Copyright © 2013, South Florida Sun-Sentinel

    Your thoughts.....? :ponder:

     
  2. petefins

    petefins Go DOLPHINS

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    Okay.. but some people never learn. As far as the past tells, Ireland is "some people."
     
  3. Zounds

    Zounds CPA4LYFE Donator

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    Ireland is drafting for a different coach now, and as we saw last year in Ryan Tannehill, he's not afraid to draft a skill poistion early.
     
  4. BC26

    BC26 Active Member

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    Ireland is dradfting to meet the needs of a different coaching style/philosophy. I think he was drafting fine before...Sparano couldn't them!
     
  5. roy_miami

    roy_miami 2020 cant get here soon enough Donator

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    Ireland is too conservative in everything he does, that's not something you can unlearn.
     
  6. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    There is nothing wrong with trading down from the 12 pick . . . . but in that draft you had some real solid players that could of been selected . . . . while I think in this draft the "value" lies in that late first round through the mid 3rd round . . . so scooping up more picks is a "good" thing. Also he went DE . . . I mean I understood the Odrick pick, it was about value . . . a guy Ireland probably had rated top 15 at the 28 spot . . . he did RIGHT by taking him . . . . but he had a chance at Gronkowski with the next pick and went Misi in an attempt to fill a need as we lost Taylor/Porter yet we NEEDED a stud TE.

    If Ireland got offered the #28 and #40 pick RIGHT NOW for #12. . . I'd pull the trigger w/o thinking twice . . . Miami would have 6 picks between 28 and 82 . . . . I'd run with that.
     
  7. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Ireland traded 2 2nd round picks for the head case Brandon Marshall. Was that conservative?

    We know that was Ireland's call because it went against every single one of Parcells' principles.
     
  8. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think they need to take a playmaker at 12. An exciting pass rusher, ball hawking DB or exciting WR. If they are tempted to take a lineman instead, trade down.
     
  9. Phins28

    Phins28 A True Fan

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    Parcells traded for marshall, the Ireland you saw in 2010 was a mannequin.
     
  10. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Nobody knows that for sure . . . all we know is Jeff Ireland was the GM at the time of the trade. 2nd, you can argue that trade gave Ireland some credibility to having balls to go after a top 5 WR when he felt there was not one available at the time . . . even if the guy can be problems. Dolfans were crying for a big time WR and Marshall is one of the biggest in the NFL.

    Personally, I didn't mind the trade, you aren't going to hit on everything . . . I appreciate the swing tho . . . better than watching Jake Grove and Gibril Wilson eat up a bunch of cap while either being hurt or sucking.
     
  11. Geforce

    Geforce FinHeaven VIP

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    Wake and Jones are the only players with speed on defense? Really Dave? They may be the only players on defense that plays fast but they are not the only players with speed.


    The fact that Ireland went against his own principles in drafting Tannehill last year mean that you can teach old dogs new tricks or in this case, teach them to adjust their outdated philosophy.
     
  12. Etuoo33

    Etuoo33 Seasoned Veteran

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    Ireland had to trade down in the past. This team needed to upgrade talent at every level, now we need play makers and the top play makers normally come from the top quarter of the draft. In the past we needed linemen that could hold up better than a turnstile (remember the playoff game against the Ravens?). Now we are more set there so we can fill other needs, instead of every single position, and go for guy's that can score, sack, or turn the ball over. I think Ireland win's big this offseason... at least I hope, for his, and all of our sakes he does!
     
  13. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    Who else lacks the confidence to think he has?
    Read more:http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fl-dave-hyde-commentary-0205-20130204,0,6337355.column
     
  14. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    Sorry again, did not see this posted earlier.:crazy:
     
  15. SR 7

    SR 7 Banned Hammered

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    So lets get this straight...


    Ireland trades back, misses on great to good playres and gets average players
    He has had a below average career in Miami
    His FA hits are below average
    His teams have been consistently average to below average
    His teams lack Great players or any HOUSEHOLD names.
    Almost every player that contributes IS Average.

    Do you notice teh trend here? I do but I also know 99% of the people that wear fin shades notice only 1 trend here, this dangerous man who sucks at adding talent has "5 picks in the 82 and 45 mill to spend"

    thats like handing a psycho with just a Pistol an RPG and an M16 with unlimited ammo now. But I mean, its Ireland and this is MIami so I guess its like handing Baby Jesus some unlimited milk instead.
     
  16. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    You can definitely tell Ireland has evolved and has been improving. Though the early returns on Egnew are bad, the 2012 was a very good draft class for the Dolphins. This is going to be a very exciting off season for the Dolphins and their fans. The future is bright, Go Dolphins!
     
  17. The Omen

    The Omen Well-Known Member

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    there is nothing wrong with trading the 12 pick if the value is there. It's easy to pick the cream of the crop he missed on after the fact, so Dave H's assesment on trading down is invalid IMO. There is always a risk/reward to trading down or up. But as mentioned before, Ireland has adjusted to his methods as far as drafting goes and that was proven last year... He's also gone on record saying he will be looking for playmakers this offseason.... People have the ability to adjust, Ireland doesn't seem like the type who is set in his ways. again JMO
     
  18. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    Or if he didn't draft a QB he would have been tar and feathered by the dolphin fans
     
  19. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Really? Because I recall half this forum being adamantly against drafting Tannehill last year on draft day.
     
  20. The Omen

    The Omen Well-Known Member

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    For Jeff haters, this is pretty much a cut paste templet for every thread that mentions Ireland... always fun to read, and when I say ALWAYS I mean ANNOYING
     
  21. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I don't remember that. I know some people did want Luke Keuchkly, Quinton Coples or Michael Floyd . . . but I think there was a sigh of relief for the most part that we FINALLY drafted a QB in the first round . . . and I can tell you, thank goodness we didn't wait until this year because this crop of QB's just doesn't compare.

    I do think drafting Tannehill had less to do with Ireland and more to do with Philbin/Sherman, but I don't have any basis for that.
     
  22. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Hell he's here now, there ain't no excuses this year in regards to FA/draft . . . and we have a first round QB going into his 2nd year . . . Jeff either hits it out of the park or he can take his *** to the dugout permanently . . . no singles or doubles . . . he has had his chance for that.
     
  23. oasis

    oasis Lost in the fog

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    I don't think Jeff Ireland views any of those as mistakes, and that's probably part of the problem.

    I think it's probably too much to expect him to suddenly become the GM we all want him to be. But here's to hoping he at least gets lucky...
     
  24. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Well yea, I have no problem with him getting lucky . . . whether fans wanna take that as him becoming a great GM or not really doesn't matter . . . this is the year to get lucky . . . if he can't do it this year, we need to just move on. Hell I'd still greenlight a late firing to be honest with you but I know it isn't happening so I gotta put my faith in Jeff Ireland and hope he gets "lucky" as you perfectly put it.
     
  25. The Omen

    The Omen Well-Known Member

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    well sometimes you need a little LUCK when it comes to drafting. How many talneted guys who seemed to be sure things end up busting out and how many times have guys getting passed up 3 or 4 rounds end up becoming multiple all pro players. Drafting is a mix of evaluating talent, potential and a little luck. NOBODY gets it right 100% of the time. As a matter a fact I think WildBill posted something that the most successfull teams only hit on 40% of there picks.
     
  26. SkapePhin

    SkapePhin Rump Shaker Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I actually recently went back and read through some old threads from per draft regarding Tannehill and there were A LOT of posters against him. Heck, I even found an old post of mine where I wrote "Tannehill has bust written all over him", but that was early in the draft process. By the time draft day came, I was on board with the Tannehill pick, but many others still were not. Go back and read those old posts. Pretty interesting.
     
  27. Dolfan5000

    Dolfan5000 Mark my words, I'll get mine

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    I've never been a fan or naysayer of Ireland because he hadn't been in full control until these past couple seasons but now with a few years of full personnel control I fully agree that THIS offseason and upcoming season will make or break his Dolphins career.
     
  28. The Omen

    The Omen Well-Known Member

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    I agree on this being JI's make or break offseason. this is year 3 of him running the show himself without the Tuna breathing down his neck, his 2nd year with Philbin. He has the amo and the picks to build off something he did last year. If we don't make major strides, I agree it's time he goes... As for the Tanny pick, I remember it being somewhat 60/40 for the pick. I remember reading a lot of people saying we got a second round talent with our first pick and a first round talent with our second pick.
     
  29. Zounds

    Zounds CPA4LYFE Donator

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    Ive read the same threads. There were a lot of draft guys on this board that didnt want him in the 1st round. Many were calling for Weeden or Kuechly. Thos same people were also ready to storm Dolphins' headquarters after we passed on Matt Flynn.
     
  30. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Paint on My Hands from Paintin the Perfect Picture Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I wanted Michael Floyd but when Ryan Tannehill's name was announced I was totally cool with it. I'll probably take a peak back there in the lead up to the draft, I'm sure there is some interesting stuff that was being tossed around at that time.
     
  31. oasis

    oasis Lost in the fog

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    I'm willing to fess up that I didn't want Tannehill at 7 (and certainly didn't want Flynn!). I warmed up to him by draft day such that I wasn't upset when we took him, but I would have preferred Kuechly with our first pick. Doesn't matter anymore - we have a QB who we're tied to for at least 3-4 years, so better hope he's the one.
     
  32. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    Wonderful -- he wasn't looking for playmakers the other five drafts. The issue here is that Ireland wouldn't know a playmaker if he saw one. After all, he drafted Egnew thinking he was a playmaker.
     
  33. SR 7

    SR 7 Banned Hammered

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    I told everyone when we drafted Egnew that he shows NOTHING, he produced nothing but a 4 yard slant or bubble screen in college so his numbers looked good and everyoen said hes a playmaker and stretch the field TE. As we saw last year, the guy was literally what he was in college but worse.

    He also said he was going to addrss team speed 3 years ago and after FA, after day 1 of draft, day 2 of draft, he drafted Gates in the 4th and during his PC came out and said, we knew this team needed speed, the fans wanted speed, we have addressed that today with Gates. WE expect great things from him from a speed standpoint.

    He addressed it with 1 player that was raw and useless in a late round pick. That my frends, is IRELAND. I mean sorry, I think Parcells or maybe his boss from the days of being a ball boy made the pick, no way Ireland woudl do such a thing according to our fans.
     
  34. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    Amen!
     
  35. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    Has Ireland learned from his mistakes? Well, there is a way to tell, just ask him how he see's the draft and compare it to previous years. Lets test it:

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/s...ort-miami-might-spend-a-mid-or-lower-r/nT7YK/

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...and-dolphins-want-to-give-ryan-tannehill-help

    Think the answer is a resounding no. For a guy that had nothing to do with "Parcells drafts", his philosophy sure looks similar. Must be a total coincidence.
     
  36. SR 7

    SR 7 Banned Hammered

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    People think its easy to change a mind set, to change a habit, and a way someone was TAUGHT to be. Since he was a ball boy he was around people and taught by people that big, strong, and disciplined players are key. You think that will cahgne after 25 years? ESPECIALLY what your brain and more importantly your EYES are used to seeing.
     
  37. DeathStar

    DeathStar Hall Of Famer

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    Yea...My faith in him learning from his mistakes is pretty much nonexistant..
     
  38. MrEd

    MrEd Banned Hammered

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    I disagree with the notion that Wake and Jones are the only two with speed on the defense. I don't know where you've derived that from as Clemons is a 4.3 guy, Smith is fast, Carroll is also a 4.3 guy. Dansby and Misi are plenty fast at LB and so is Kaddu. Solia and Starks are fast for interior lineman and so is Odrick. This we have no speed on Defense is laughable. I do agree with the majority of your post's topic of not trading back. And our WR most definitely lack speed.
     
  39. Dolph N.Fan

    Dolph N.Fan A True Fan

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    Ireland apparently doesn't seem to have trouble scouting the talent as far as his draft boards go. he just sucks at actually reeling them in. He hopes every elite playmaker just falls to him. If he thinks a player is legit then go get him. Waiting around won't get you anywhere. lol when he does go after a player it's a scrub like Daniel Thomas. No need to trade up for him.
     
  40. SR 7

    SR 7 Banned Hammered

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    Clemons is a 4.3 guy doesn't mean hes fast during the game to be honest.

    There is numerous times on film that Jones chases down the player on a breakaway while Clemons was the closer man and ends up being last in teh race between Jones and the player wiht the ball. That isn't 4.3 speed cuz Jones was a 4.5 speed guy coming out.

    Welker has 4.99999 speed and he makes Clemons 4.3 speed look like hes running a 7 second 40.

    If we want to talk about speed like Smith Carrol Misi etc put into account their speed is nothing without a brain or game. Just because they have speed doens't mean they are in teh right place at the right time. People take things so black and white with no room for gray.

    Jones looks fast not becuase of his 4.5 speed but his instincts, being a playmaker and at the right place at the right time numerous times. Instincts make your 4.5 speed look 4.3 lack of instincts like Clemons makes your 4.3 speed look 4.7.

    If you guys watched Miami 13 years ago you would see how FAST ZT played. Probably the slowest man I have seen but his instincts made him Willis Fast. That Miami Defense was fast not only becasue of speed but because they ALL had tremendous top notch instincts. Surtain, Madison, JT, ZT, Bowens, even Armstrong, Marion, they all had elite level instincts and anticipation.
     

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