Herald: Early-vote tally shows Miami Dolphins stadium renovation was failing at polls

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by z926538, May 14, 2013.

  1. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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  2. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    5% of the county is what these numbers show. If the entire county got to vote, results could have been much different.
     
  3. DeathStar

    DeathStar Hall Of Famer

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    Reason why the marlins one wasn't put to a vote...

    It too would have been destroyed...

    If these are the results in Miami Dade...palm beach and broward would be even worse haha...
     
  4. z926538

    z926538 Rookie

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    You could be right, we'll never know for sure. What I do know is the people who early vote in what was essentially a single issue special election are people who are extremely motivated. Although the article didn't say, it's probably safe to assume that the early voting results are spread pretty evenly around the county so there's no real mental adjustment that can be made to the results on the assumption that Homestead voters might be less supportive of the issue and less motivated to vote than voters from Miami Gardens.
     
  5. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    In other news the Florida Panthers were granted public money today for a new scoreboard. So public money for the Marlins and Panthers yet the Dolphins were denied.
     
  6. DefensiveEnd76

    DefensiveEnd76 Football Guru

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    Guess it's time to move the Dolphins the heck out of Miami and to a place where they'd be truly appreciated. Just leave Miami with the crappy Marlins.
     
  7. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Thats what happens when commissioners do whatever they want. This was broward county. Im sure that if Miami asked for 4 million that would be swung fairly easy though.
    http://www.fieldofschemes.com/


    “We’ve put enough money into the building,” Yormark said. “We’re not in the position to buy one. If the scoreboard just collapses next year, which I’m sure it will, we just won’t have a scoreboard.”

    This is, to my knowledge, the first time in recorded history that a sports team exec warned not that part of his building was in danger of falling down, not that he didn’t want to pay to fix it, but that it was literally in danger of imminent collapse and he was just going to stand by and watch it do so because why should he pay to fix it?
     
  8. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    i dont know i always thought it was fans job to buy tickets and merchandise, not sure when it became our responsibility to provide billionaires and millionaires stadiums to make their money risk free.
     
  9. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    The author of that article just got into a bit of an argument on twitter with one of Steve Ross' henchmen. I don't get a good feeling about the organization when these front office guys start yapping, they all sound like delusional morons.
     
  10. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    That scoreboard cost $4.2 million. The Dolphins were looking for like $300 million.

    So... yeah. :lol:
     
  11. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    Anyway, what this proves is that Dolphins were onto something in not wanting a public vote. Ross made that clear months ago, that they preferred to do this through the legislature. Money travels a lot farther there than it does even in a special election where you can turn out "your" people to the polls. That's a detail that people who decried that people weren't "allowed" to vote on the upgrade seemed to miss, that Ross preferred their voice be heard at all, even in theory. And now it turns out the vote would have failed in any case.

    There was a window there to get a new stadium, a brand new one with at least partial public money. But when Ross bought the team he was over the moon at how great the stadium was and so he missed that window. That gave Jeffery Loria the chance to take the bull by the horns and lead it to the public well for a nice long piss.

    The next window won't open at least for another 10 years, imo. Maybe longer, if the Marlins continue to struggle.
     
  12. Vampire Nicolas

    Vampire Nicolas Active Member

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    Actually your math is incorrect. The entire project was around $350 million with the Dolphins paying just over 70% of the costs. So the Dolphins were looking for about $100 million which is 1/3 the amount you incorrectly posted. $100 million that the franchise would pay back within 30 years. Do you think the Panthers are going to pay back that $4.2 million? Probably not.
     
    Nublar7 likes this.
  13. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Well in actuality the dolphins were asking for about 289 million from bed tax revenues and 90 million from sales tax rebates fo a grand total of 379 million.
     
  14. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    Take it up with Patricia Mazzei and the Miami Herald, bubba. If anything I undersold the number.

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nake...m-upgrades-planned-for-now.html#storylink=cpy
     
  15. chriswarren876

    chriswarren876 Active Member

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    Yeah I think the Miami Herald is overshooting that number. In the agreement it says that Steve Ross would HAVE to pay for 50% of the cost at LEAST. So if you take your 289 mil plus the 90 mil in sales tax from thing only bought at the stadium you get 379 million...yeah so if Steve Ross payed for 50 % that would give you 758 million...That's new stadium money, not upgrade. The upgrades were suppose to cost 400-450 million. So those numbers you give via the MH don't add up.
     
  16. AFCMiamiEast

    AFCMiamiEast A True Fan

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    You're comparing $400m in renovations...to a scoreboard...c'mon bro.
     
  17. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Those are the numbers that were discussed for bill and are accurate. Never saw the 50 or 70 percent adding up.
     
  18. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    Still public money. Welfare for billionaires and what not.
     
  19. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    And here i thought the Dolphins werent learning politics. Seems they understood the game after all. Granted, they didnt know enough to not make a series of comical mistakes and banked all their efforts on something doomed to fail, but still.

    Did love this part of the article:

    Seems like a bunch of Finheaven posters owe Weatherford an apology email.
     
  20. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Whats sad is commission just voted it. More of the same about hosting events that will bring in so much money to economy

    ---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

    Never saw one actual poll with it winning although it seems polls were sparce on this. In march is was 77 percent against
     
  21. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    Kobe beef steak at Old Homestead Steakhouse in NYC: $350

    Ribeye at Chili's: $17.


    Still food.

    ---------- Post added at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 PM ----------

    An Illuminati conspiracy perhaps.
     
  22. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    If anyone's ever taken statistics or business probability courses, a hodgepodge of 5% of the voters, motivated to vote early, is the equivalent of 1-2 precincts reporting the first Tuesday each November. It's hardly statistically relevant nor predictive. And the obstructionist republicans? How many were directly installed/funded/motivated by Eagles Carpetbagger and hypocrite Normie Braman? Unless the county guarantees Ross a percentage of increased hospitality and re-tail related sales tax revenues generated during Superbowl weeks, why would he want to solely finance essentially a welfare windfall for a county that doesn't support the team and likely would have come out en masse if voting to fund a new Soccer futball league team.

    Everyone would be better off if Ross could orchestrate a deal with Broward (unlikely) or PB County ... hell even Martin County with a stadium situated somewhere around Jupiter would end up being more commercially viable than the status quo.
     
  23. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Cities nationwide have set bad precencendents of paying for nfl stadiums over and over. In the end the major windfalls always seem to be the owner selling the teams and the profits they make from them.
    There are plenty of independent economic studies that shows having an NFL team is far from a boon to your local economy. Does it have an impact of course just like the Jehovas Witness convention or whatever is supposed to impact Broward .
    Having a football team is more of a quality of life issue to people that are fans. The whole model is broken because u have a league that makes record profits , increasing their salary cap each year without any real plan to fund stadiums except to force the public to support them another way. Living in Tampa the only real affect the Bucs have had on me is to make me pay 1/2 cent more in taxes to put more money in the pockets of the Glazers.

    Also not sure how Bramen is any more of a hypocrite than Ross who never really wanted a vote in first place out of his own mouth
     
  24. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    You're forgetting a few key variables:

    1. This isn't (or wouldn't have been) simply one measure on a wide ranging ballot. This was a special referendum about one issue and one issue only. That changes the voter dynamic significantly from a normal election. The only people who were going to show up at all -- early or not -- were those passionately for or against. That kind of uniformity is the very opposite of a hodgepodge, to me.

    2. Generally speaking, Democrats vote early more often than Republicans. If the early vote turnout was this tilted toward Republicans, that would indicate the likelihood that the margin of defeat by election day would have been even larger than it already was.

    As I indicated in my first point, it's reasonable to assume a different from normal distribution of R/D/I in this kind of referendum. However, so far as it goes, the actions in general of the members of certain parties might still hold statistically. In other words, a Republican might still be expected to act like a Republican, which means being more likely to vote on election day.
     
  25. CASSINO

    CASSINO Starter

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    I voted for it
     
  26. matt11390

    matt11390 Starter

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    Momentum is really moving against Ross right now. He has a losing team, local fans are not diehard like they used to be (attendance shows this along with the fact of many people from other parts of the country who support other teams moving there), and now he can't get any support from the state. Sure he feels backed in a corner. His only option at this point if he wants to keep the team and keep the team in Miami is to win and win consistently. If Miami becomes a winner again over time fans may come back. Then if he can win the fans back then he might find support to make changes to the stadium.
     
  27. WVUBOB

    WVUBOB Well-Known Member Donator

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    If you believe what was said & reported the Cuban community because of Marlin thing dead set against referendum

    So with this voting bloc involved results more than likely would not have changed
     
  28. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    It does not surprise me that the vote was not going the Fins' way with the early voting. Those angry and charged up vote first. However, those more supportive would have hit the polls on the actual day of the vote.
     
  29. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    No real evidence to support that. In fact people that were passionate to get money for upgrade were probably first to vote. A biill like this has a much better chance of passing during a sepcial election more so than a normal election
     
  30. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    The percentage surprises me. I would have expected closer to 53-47 against. The one certainty was the proposal would fare much better, at least 15-20 points better, in a referendum than in a general election. Perhaps it started further away than I anticipated. The 15-20 points could already be reflected in that 57-43, and it would have been 77% against in a November vote.

    I thought the late barrage of Dolphin media money had a big chance to push it over the top. Based on this number, that likely was incorrect.

    Marc Caputo is always an impressive voice within the Herald. I appreciate that he ripped Ross and detailed the considerable problems in getting this bill through the legislature in the final week. Caputo sent me a few emails in November, after there was uncertainty whether my dad's vote had counted. He died after sending in his absentee ballot, but before election day.
     
  31. SQuinn17

    SQuinn17 League Dominator

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    The BB&T Center is owned by Broward County. You're not even talking about the same county, more or less that they're spending money on something that belongs to them and not a billionaire.
     
  32. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf A True Fan

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    :chuckle:

    Yeah, not likely.

    Broward (yes) and Palm Beach (maybe)... but you are going overboard with the Martin county stuff. That's the equivalent of 'out in the sticks' and it wont work.
     
  33. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Angry people vote first...lots of evidence for that. The enthusiasm gap would be bigger for the no side, but in the end I still think more people would have voted for it.
     
  34. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    have not seen any polls that had this bill passing but Ross will assure u that it would pass. Normal circumstances you would be right but making the bill at this time of year was aimed at getting a lower turn out and the people passionate about this thing,
     

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