Heres why CHRIS Long doesn't make sense at number 1,and JAKE Long does

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by MiamiDolfan85, Feb 26, 2008.

  1. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    ==========================================================
    Chris Long-
    ==========================================================
    Sure,he is a great player,probably one of the best motors in the draft.However,people are saying that he is too small to be an end in the NFL.And I'm thinking to myself...6'4 aint small...then someone pointed out his weight.....and I was like....oh yea thats true,he needs to be at least 290-300 pounds,and he he is only 272....and that also brought up another RED FLAG,I'm not saying that he is slow,but he isn't that fast,and adding another 20-30lbs. ain't helping,and is going to make him even slower(AGAIN IM NOT SAYING HE IS SLOW).Parcells and Sparano said that they want the players to fit the system,and Chris doesn't fit that,so I don't think its neccessary to draft him.

    Also,another RED FLAG, is that if he is too small to be a DE,that he will have to play OLB.And Im just thinking to myself....who takes a LB that high?The last LB that high i think was Lavaar Arrington like 7-8 years ago,but that was at pick number two,but look what happened to him,an underacheiving career(IM NOT SAYING CHRIS LONG WILL HAVE THAT KIND OF CAREER).I just think that MIAMI will find good OLB's later in the draft,which is what Parcells and Ireland thrive on.Chris will be great to have,dont get me wrong,but,I think taking him 1st overall really doesnt make sense.If we go defense first,my vote is for the one and only,Vernon Gholston.
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    Jake Long-
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    He reaped on Monday at the combine.He only let 2 players past him when he played OT(let one by on the right,and let on by on the left).Jake played RT for the first two years at Michigan,and played the last two at LT.Jake is a Parcells player,6'7",315,excellent pass blocking skills,and adaquate run blocking skills.Jake put up 47 reps. at one point at 225,yet at the combine he only but up 10 less than that,still impressive though.Jake Long fills a need that no one on our current team cannot.Carey,IMO,belongs as a guard,best case scenerio a RT.He just isn't the answer at LT,he just doesnt have the "it" that requires player at LT,and I think that Jake does.
    ==========================================================

    P.S.

    If you still think Chris Long is the right guy,just keep this in mind,we had GOOD DE's over the past years,and how many of them were Pro-Bowlers?

    A couple...and where did that get us?:unsure:

    Sure,Chris Long can be a Pro-Bowler,but would you rather have another Jason Taylor(great player on a team that doesn't go anywhere,let alone the playoffs),rather than try something different,and build on an area that is a MUST(we have been missing for QUITE some time).....:D

    Basically,what I am saying is,this team has been broke for a long time,and drafting another DE isn't going to fix it,and it's about time to fix it....but and only but,in a new way
     
  2. phinfan_1

    phinfan_1 Pro Bowler

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    Not saying we should or shouldn't pick him but 272 pounds is not small for a DE...Jason weighs less than that.
     
  3. Cobra

    Cobra Starter

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    +1

    Sign me up for the "Draft JAKE Long Bandwagon"
     
  4. Finfan2289

    Finfan2289 Member

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    I think either one is good but jake long would help our offensive line out alot and i think he could be a great left tackle. and he is also the safer pick and we could mold our offensive line around him and satele that way we will have a good LT and C and we could concentrate on our D line with our 2 secound round picks or at least one of them
     
  5. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    I totally agree....Chris Long is not big enough to play a DE in a 3-4 so he would most likely end up being a OLB. We cannot give $35 million to a linebacker....I don't care if he is Little Howie. We have major needs on our O-line. If Beck or whoever we have at QB, is going to have any success they need the time to throw it. We also need a guy who can open holes for RB, Chatman and Ricky.....Jake Long is the one sure thing out there, and the one guy who makes everyone better on our offense. We can take a LB like Connor with the #32 pick (maybe?) or a solid shut down corner. I think we have to take the best O-lineman out there first, then fill in the pieces on D after this.
     
  6. HaRdKoReXXX

    HaRdKoReXXX Trigger Man Hammered

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    Ive been trying to say we should draft JAKE Long for quite awhile. Just because Parcells is known as a defensive guru dont be shocked if we scoop this guy.

    I could list a thousand reasons why this pick is a good idea but I'll just give you one: Every great team in the NFL has a great LT. Period.
     
  7. lotion

    lotion Jane Gum

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    The draft is a crapshoot. No matter who we pick its a 50% chance they are a bust. We need help on DL, people ran all over us. Hello Chris.
     
  8. G-Force

    G-Force Hall Of Famer

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    BS. Thats it. BS. We don''t even know if Jake is a RT or LT and their is 3-4 T's that are even or a little behind him. Whether he's a LT or not we would have to pay him LT money. It don't matter anyway about this rediculous thread. Their are 100 poll on here and Chri Long always wins.
     
  9. dtannen

    dtannen Active Member

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    when we sign Flozell Adams in FA it will be clear that Chris Long is our pick.
     
  10. HaRdKoReXXX

    HaRdKoReXXX Trigger Man Hammered

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    Let me ask you this, when's the last time we had a solid O-Line? Ill give you a hint: It was the last time we were in the playoffs!!!
     
  11. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    i said its small for a DE in a 3-4...thats why Jason Taylor plays OLB in a 3-4...
     
  12. NYC#1finsfan

    NYC#1finsfan #1DandyDanFan

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    Jake is my man.


     
  13. fishypete

    fishypete FinHeaven Elite

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    Polls don't mean anything...the only person that has a say is Parcells...not any fans. I'll leave you with this...when you see J. Long...think J. Elliot...and what Jumbo meant to Parcells.

    Added note...also think F. Adams...he isn't a twinkle toes...he's road grader...just like Long...Just like Jumbo was. Parcells is a creature of habit...he likes big players on the DL...and OL...he's not a finese type of guy.
     
  14. VA Phin Fan

    VA Phin Fan Starter

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    ok, here we go, Draft Jake Long, sign Flozell and Faneca and move Carey to Guard. Line would be Adams-Faneca-Satele-Carey-Long. WOW!
     
  15. phinfan_1

    phinfan_1 Pro Bowler

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    Yeah I know what you said..but I'd take a 272 pound highly athletic Chris Long at DE in a 3-4 anyday.
    I'd also take Jake too..I'd be happy with either pick.
     
  16. mike24

    mike24 Member

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    J.Long is a superior player than the number Tackle last year(J.Thomas), in all categories but one MOBILITY. Im sure he is going to be a great RT, but you dont pick a RT # 1.

    Carey is considered a top 10 RT, but I dont think he play that good in the left side. WHY-Mobility.
     
  17. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    I think you got Chris Long confused with Vernon Gholston,Chris Long is NOT high athletic...he is athletic...but definately not high athletic....
     
  18. Philter25

    Philter25 MORE COWBELL!!!

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    If the fins take Chris Long at #1 overall, it wont be to play DE, it will be OLB. In a 3-4, your playmakers are the OLBs. You dont give gap defending DEs 60 million. You give that to your OLBs.

    I have nothing against Jake Long, I think he would be a great pick also.... but if you are going to do a compare/contrast of who is the better pick, please dont use "he is too small to play DE" as reason because he wouldnt play DE here.

    Another RED FLAG that your comparison is weak is:

    If you didnt know his size, chances are you dont pay attention to college football or the combine at all. Someone who JUST found out about his size really isnt educated enough to tell me why he would be a bad choice at #1 because obviously you know nothing about the guy! And his speed, compare his 40 times to others and you will see that a 4.71 (4.75) for a 6'3, 272 lb guy is pretty good!

    Another RED FLAG that you really dont know what you are talking about is you suggest that "another 20 to 30 lbs will make him slower. Which is horribly wrong for a few points:

    1) Since when is SPEED the most important factor for a 3-4 DE? (Im assuming thats what you mean because for him to be a DE, he would need to add 20-30 lbs to play in the 3-4) 3-4 DE's are GAP DEFENDERS, not pass rushers. PLUS, compare his 40 time to other DEs. Its pretty good.

    2) If you look at his frame, Chris Long doesnt have the body to add another 20-30 lbs. He looks maxxed out at his size. Could he add the weight and be a fatso, sure, but no team would do that. Why? Look at Matt Roth. Drafted as a 3-4 DE, 6'4, 272 lbs (sounds just like Long eh?) Roth went full an entire season his rookie year then an offseason then another entire season. After all that, he is 280ish and is very undersized for a 3-4 DE.

    3) Of course additional weight will make him slower.... heck, it will make anyone slower. Could he even gain 50 lbs and play NT? Sure! But the bottom line is NO TEAM would do that! The guy is a talent and has a great motor and has the speed and skillset to play 3-4 OLB with great size, or he can be a 4-3 DE.

    Its nice discussion to have a compare contrast as to who you take at #1, but if you are going to make it, at least know what you are talking about and know the players you are talking about.

    Your best argument would be not to give 60 million to a linebacker because you feel we can get one in the later rounds..... not that the guy doesnt have the size to play a position he wouldnt even play here in Miami.
     
  19. MiamiDolfan85

    MiamiDolfan85 DA M.I.A IS WHERE I STAY

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    I doubt Jake is going to play RT.Give me 5 reason why he cannot?

    I can give you 5 reasons why he can....

    1-Strength

    2-Awareness

    3-Great Pass Blocker

    4-Blocks With A Mean Attitude

    5-Makes Other Linemen Better

    Mel Kiper Jr.,Todd McShay,several draft posts and NFL Live,multiple ESPN shows said he can play LT,so why would he not,he could get $35M to do it,I doubt he attempts not too

    Another thing is the Sparano and Mike Maser(OL Coach),can teach the O-Line pretty darn good,and I think he can make Jake Long into a LT(although I already think he is a LT...actually I think he can play both....he played LT for the last two years or his 4 years in a pretty hard conference,it kinda hard not to want this guy,even looking past his physical traits.....
     
  20. Majpain

    Majpain Giants GM

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    How about Ryan Clady he has more potential to be a LT than Jake Long.
     
  21. Philter25

    Philter25 MORE COWBELL!!!

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    First, you only listed 4 reasons.

    Second, arent #3 and #4 the same exact thing.

    Third, you only really need 1 solid reason why someone cant play a position.

    If a WR has great speed, great route running, great size, great strength, but cant catch the ball, theres 4 reasons why he can play WR, but one GIANT important one as to why he cant. :lol:
     
  22. fishypete

    fishypete FinHeaven Elite

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    I see C. Long as 4-3 DE...more than any other position.
     
  23. Motion

    Motion Banned Hammered

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    He is not a great pass blocker, his strength is run blocking.
     
  24. Philter25

    Philter25 MORE COWBELL!!!

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    Thats a valid reason, much better than the original posters reason why we shouldnt draft him.

    I think in the pros, Chris Long is a better 4-3 DE over a 3-4 DE based on his size and skillset..... however, I think he can also excel as a SOLB. His head coach, Al Groh, said Long's best pro position was going to be OLB.

    Al Groh > Anyone else on here.
     
  25. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    People get over the size issue because if we followed the so called "guidelines'' we would of NEVER had the pleasure of having a Zach Thomas or Jason Taylor playing for us.I look for a player with a passion for the game and I do believe Chris Long fits that mold to a tee as did Jason and Zach.

    If we picked Chris or Jake Long I would be happy either way
     
  26. phinfan_1

    phinfan_1 Pro Bowler

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    I disagree, I think he's very athletic for a 272 pounder...athletic enough to play OLB. He moves like a LB.
     
  27. Ghetti13

    Ghetti13 Seasoned Veteran

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    I would agree 100% if I believed that Jake Long was a Pro Bowl caliber left tackle. Since I don't believe he is that caliber of player, I don't believe Jake should even be in the equation at #1 Overall.

    Miami is in a tough spot, especially since the best player in the draft and the only guy I though legitimately made a lot of sense with the first pick, Glenn Dorsey, showed to have some medical red flags.
     
  28. RonnieBrownTown

    RonnieBrownTown SuperBowl MVP

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    Chris Long will be a great draft pick. People said Zach Thomas was to samll and look what happened.
     
  29. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj Banned Hammered

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    I'll take a 270 pound pass rushing OLB over a RT every time
     
  30. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj Banned Hammered

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    we can find a RT in round 2 or 3

    RT = <yawn>
     
  31. mike24

    mike24 Member

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    I want my #1 pick LT to be the best LT in the draft. One reason I think he wont be a good LT is VERNON GHOLSTON owning him.
     
  32. Ghetti13

    Ghetti13 Seasoned Veteran

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    Although I am not a Jake Long supporter, I think it is unfair to say Vernon Gholston owned him. The reality is that Vernon Gholston owned him a few times in rather embarrassing fashion. What might also might be a little concerning is that Heyward owned Long on one occasion as well.

    That said, these instances show that he is not an elite left tackle prospect worthy of the top pick, in my opinion of course. They do not however lend credence to the idea that Gholston "owned" Long. He didn't. However, I do get the impression that he would have "owned" Long is he would have tried hard on every play instead of occasionally.
     
  33. FinHopeful

    FinHopeful Starter

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    Jake Long and the best available OG/OT at #32 is intriguing. It is possible to fix the offensive line in a single season.

    LT Jake Long
    LG Jake Scott
    C Samson Satele
    RG #32 pick
    RT Vernon Carey


    This line could stay intact for 4 to 5 years. The payoff in year 3 of a consistent offensive line would be huge. These picks do not maximize the team talent, but this would allow Beck and the QB picked with our additional second pick to develop. Ronnie, Ricky, and LoBo all benefit from the improved offensive line.
     
  34. ShaBam

    ShaBam Starter

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    Explain to me why...a team with a whole at nearly every position, would waste a #1 pick on the deepest position in the draft?

    Easily...EEAAASSILLYY get a Tackle in Rd2. Waste of a pick at #1, take Vernon if you don't like C. Long.
     
  35. ShaBam

    ShaBam Starter

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    Will people please let Ricky Williams go? He's what, 31? You think he's going to have an impact at all?
     
  36. JTHEPHINATIC

    JTHEPHINATIC Member

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    I think Jake Long and Alan Faneca would be just fine. Let's spend our free agent dollars elsewhere-like linebacker or DB, draft a DT in the second or third rounds-Sims from Auburn or Dre Moore with our 3rd round, take a reciever with the second 2nd round pick, and drapth for depth and prospects with the rest.
     
  37. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 FinHeaven VIP

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    And when we sign Calvin Pace it will be clear that Chris Long will be playing for the Rams, Raiders or Falcons
     
  38. FINOMINAL

    FINOMINAL Scout Team

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    I agree you can get Anthony Collins in round two and not pay number one money for that position. I would take McFadden number one. We scored 16.6 points per game last year. I want the home run hitter. He can make that big money pay us back in points and wins. We can address the defense at the 2b pick, three, four, etc. The draft is very deep. Probably why there was such parity in college this year. I’m glad we have a good scout team in place. I think we are in good hands.
    Read this:

    http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2008_nfl_draft/darren_mcfaddden_arkansas.htm
     
  39. KingDolphin57

    KingDolphin57 Hall of Fame

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    I agree with some of the points you made about Chris Long.He doesnt make sense at #1 especially when Gholston Is available.I dont think Miami is going to run a 3-4 base next year either.I think its going to be the same hybrid that Quentin Groves eluded to when he interviewed with the dolphins at the combine.In the end Miami is last against the run ,and teams rebuild from the inside out.We wont pick chris because he is to similar to gholston ,we wont take Jake because Flozell is cheaper,we wont take Ryan because its to risky ,and we wont take Mcfadden because we have Brown. If we stay at #1 Its Dorsey If we trade out Its Gholston.
     
  40. FearTheBeard

    FearTheBeard FearTheBurke

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    great post, i don't feel chris is too small though and he also had a strong 40 time so speed isn't an issue, jake would be a good pick because he is a need that doesn't make mistakes (2 flags in his 4 years) and only 2 sacks alowed, one coming against vernon gholston.
     

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