hooshoops prospect takes...

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by hoops, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    well all i kept hearing was people wanted to see my own work and have my own analysis and not piggy back on other peoples threads...well i finally requested the platform to do so where people could get my takes and analysis and so throughout the college football season and postseason draft process ie the senior bowl the postseason all star games the nfl combine the pro days etc i'm gonna be posting my analysis and evals on nfl prospects and talent...i want to make it perfectly clear i am not a writer nor do i ever intend to be so what you are gonna get is pretty much a blog form from me...i'm a football guy always will be...i know nfl talent i know how to identify it and i know how to grade it and assess a value to it...i'm not afraid to be held accountable for my takes either...last thing to say before i start adding content is that i don't care what kiper or mcshay or any other talking head has to say about a player...these are my own evaluations and analysis off my own study...i hope that you'll find it helpful and worth your time...so let's get it on...
     
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  2. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Lets get it on!
     
  3. Gonzo

    Gonzo Widerstand Administrator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Lookin' forward to it!
     
  4. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    we'll start with the best pure pass rush highest level upside prospect maybe in college football right now...barkevious mingo...who jumped off the screen at me last year in the alabama lsu game...if you haven't seen the tape i challenge you to do so...mingo was a one man wrecking crew...by far the best looking prospect on both sides of the los...i was floored...

    long and lean mingo possesses explosive initial first step quickness off the ball and has rediculous athleticism and nice length and despite his relatively lean frame provides a pop on contact and understands leverage...i challenge you to find any guy with his hand in the dirt that gives more effort to the whistle...i haven't seen it...i can't help but think what a monster this kid could be if he added another 15 lbs to that frame he has the body that looks to me like he could carry that extra weight without losing much of anything...he rocks people on contact with his hands getting tackles off balance and then redirects back inside to the qb and shows off that 4.5 closing speed and rediculous quick acceleration...he runs down things from the backside he has no business getting to and covers ground like a gazelle...he has the ability to gain the edge and turn the corner with that explosive outside speed rush and then flatten out to the qb...his teammate sam montgomerys a solid looking player but this kids just another level...this is jpp type talent people...top 5 bpa all day long...i would jump on this kid like there's no tomorrow if he got in my wheelhouse if i'm miami

    i also would challenge you to count how many offensive tackles he puts on their asses this year...this kid might need to add strength to be stouter at the poa against the run and i get that but for as lean as he is right now he puts guys on skates routinely...don't let all those damn double teams sure to come his way this year fool you...this kid is the goods...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2012
  5. ROADRUNNER

    ROADRUNNER FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    [​IMG]

    [video=youtube;biR1aJXTyiw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biR1aJXTyiw&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

    [video=youtube;JNp3mHsU3kI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JNp3mHsU3kI[/video]
     
  6. rob19

    rob19 Soul Rebel Finheaven VIP Donator

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    How ya feeling about RG3 today hoops?
     
  7. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    like i need to watch the skins opening game...that said it's only one
     
  8. mnphinfan

    mnphinfan Lifelong Fin Fan

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    Hoops my main concerns for this team are WR and CB, plus DE if Vernon doesn't show some serious flashes.. Being that we for sure will have 5 picks in the top 96 and probably 6 picks in the top 110-115 who would you key on in these first 3 rounds for these 3 positions (besides Mingo). Having a 4 year old with another one on the way and being in the middle of a home renovating project I don't have much time for college football so a little help would be great as for which games to set the DVR for.
     
  9. DKphin

    DKphin A True Fan Donator

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    I am right there with on your take of Vontae for a second. I will give you a :bobdole: and raise you a :tantrum:
     
  10. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    not sure about individual players yet but i can tell you i'm not in love with the likely cb class...i would agree it's a major need...i tell ya one guy i'd use a 2nd rounder on even though he may be given his size a nickle cb in the pros and not a starting boundary one...the honey badger...dismissed from lsu sure but we need a real playmaker at cb...a guy with a nose for the ball...i'd burn a 2nd on that kid despite his less than ideal size in a heartbeat...

    as for positions it's early and all but for what i have seen i say wr, cb, safety and mainly free safety and possibly pass rusher ie situational rusher or stud every down never leave the field de and shift odrick back inside to dt in the rotation...odricks a nice looking edge run defender but he's not thus far shown me much from a pass rush stand point on the outside...and frankly at 300 lbs i don't think he ever will...if i can get a bpa like mingo i jump on it...no matter what pick i have or what my needs are...he's that kind of difference making talent...a ballhawk at free safety would be nice we got just a guy like play from the position these days...barely know clemons is even there against the pass...

    i will tell you that i think vernon has nice potential and upside and i expect him not to blow up this year but to show that he deserves another camp at least to show if he's the guy...again though if i can get mingo i don't hesitate...other than the qbs which trump all if that kid given his tools and upside and everyone and their mother looking for the next jpp gets out of the top 5 i'll be floored...the talents just sick

    it's only been a week but as of right now i would say qb should be out of the equation...i see some really good things there...and i frankly don't think no matter what they'd give up on him in only a year...and right now frankly there's no reason even to consider it...he's shown better than expected...

    this team could definitely use lb depth as in quality depth in case of an injury and some guards that fit the zbs...but we got bigger fish to fry early in the draft imo and positions that carry more weight draft value wise with those picks...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2012
  11. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase

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    Yes Mingo is a ****ing animal. If he's there at our pick we need him.

    Nobody else comes close to his pass rushing talent.
     
  12. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Aint no way you'd get me to spend a 2nd rounder on the Sugar Possum. Other than being a liability in man coverage, this is a kid who has been given several chances by Coach Miles and LSU to clean up his act and couldn't do it. He's an instinctive little player, but he makes most of his plays blitzing out of the slot in nickel packages forcing fumbles, etc. because John Chavis knows he's a liability in man-coverage. He makes a lot of plays because he's put in position to make plays. However, his special teams ability both as a returner and on coverage units is outstanding. 4th round is the highest I could go. He's wasn't even the best cover corner on his own team... Tharold Simon is the truth in that regard with Claiborne gone.

    I think the corner class is better than people think. Right now they just aren't getting the hype by talking heads and draftniks, and the one's that were getting all the hype by talking heads and draftniks as if they were elite corners (David Amerson for example) can't cover a biscuit with a paper plate.
     
  13. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I don't have a good feel as to how the WR group will shake out, but I think it's important for us to do some real damage in Rounds 2 and 3. The Packers have done the bulk of their heavy lifting at the position in those rounds, and I'd be disappointed if we didn't come away with two very promising WR's before RD 4. But I think Mingo and Werner are the two guys I'm focusing on in RD 1. I can see Woods as a guy who falls to the top of RD 2, and he'd be a great fit for our system.
     
  14. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i won't disagree that the honey badger has some issues in man coverage to date but i think that's more about attitude than physical tools thus far...i think he has plus tools but could be coached up into a heck of a player...that said that's pretty much what we had in vontae regarding the want to and inconsistencies...anyways he looks to me like a pretty dependable tackler and i think he has solid instincts for the ball and has a nose for it...something outside of reshad jones and jimmy wilson i don't see much of in the current core...
     
  15. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    I would like to see what he could bring to the table as a Safety. Undersized, but solid and willing tackler and doesn't play small. It would get him out of man coverage more often and allow him to use his instincts to find the ball...which he does very very well. That said, all isn't he wanting to play at LSU again next year if they let him back on?
     
  16. rob19

    rob19 Soul Rebel Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The fact that he's missing an entire year of college football for checking himself into a rehab clinic for "marijuana" is ****ing laughable. When this story first broke I thought for sure it had to be heroin or cocaine if he was going to miss a whole year. Given that cannabis isn't even physically addictive & has absolutely no physical withdrawal symptoms, I hope the real addicts in there give him ****. His publicist told him to do this to get sympathy & appear that he's "reformed", ala Lindsay Lohan.

    [video=youtube;LEberTUvrsE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEberTUvrsE[/video]

    If you want to call it psychologically addictive, what the **** ever; chocolate, riding bikes, blowing farts, or basically anything else on the planet can be considered 'psychologically addictive'.

    --
    Anyway, I know this is way off-topic. I just had to say it.
     
  17. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    at safety i think he would follow a jimmy wilson path...
     
  18. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Sugar Possum already looks like Jimmy Wilson in man coverage....

    [​IMG]
     
  19. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    watching lsu auburn the tigers play another de on some early downs in the rotation #89 edwards who's not a bad player in his own right by the way but mingo is just a different level from everyone else on the field...standing up or with a hand in the dirt this kids beautiful...i'm pounding the table for this kid...his pass rush talents and athleticism and length and the way he looks standing up and redirecting in space is phenomenal...might be the bpa in the draft period...he's like a more athletic looking aldon smith...more upside also

    i don't care that the guy will be a liability against the run as a 43 de maybe while he gains weight...bruce irvin went #15 overall and he was light in the pants and not half the physical size specimen this kid is...but mingos gonna test as well if not better

    this kids also gonna rock it in stand up lb drills at the combine which means imo 34 or 43 teams will covet him...i can't imagine what that guy would be with 15 lbs of good weight as a 43 end...scary stuff...just a freak as it is
     
  20. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    keyed marques wilson today...pretty much won on every route i saw...nice looking vertical player...not seeing much strength but he got off the los well...i see a lot of finesse in his game...possible poor mans aj green like pro...love the size...looks like he can separate against man and in and out of cuts which is key with big wrs...smooth fluid looking player

    don't much like the level of competition...
     
  21. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    this isn't gonna matter for this upcoming draft but wr sammy watkins looks like he put on some good muscle weight this offseason...thicker but with the same explosion...nice looking damn player right there
     
  22. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Mingo would be Corey Lemonier with 15 pounds of good weight. I don't see how anybody could watch the LSU/Auburn and not see that there were two better defensive ends on the field in Lemonier and Montgomery.

    I don't see how anybody could've watched any of LSU's games this year and not see that Sam Montgomery is a better player and it's not even up for debate.

    Although I do understand your point about Bruce Irvin.... the difference with Irvin being you're talking about a kid who finished 2nd in the entire country with 14 sacks as a Junior despite playing only on 3rd downs. Mingo still doesn't have a sack through 4 games and has only been in on 1 tackle in the last 2 games. He hasn't sacked a quarterback since the Arkansas game last year.

    Mingo has hit a wall in his development and it can only be due to a few reasons. He'll always be athletic.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  23. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i can understand where someone would say that lemonier and montgomery are better de's than mingo at this point...they're definitely better all around players...montgomerys a little stiff to me but as a 43 de i don't see it as an issue...but what i will absolutely disagree on is that either of those guys have the same level explosion and burst abilities and pass rush upside and football upside period as barkevious mingo...i don't really care if anyone agrees with me on it either...i'll fly solo just fine...

    anyways i'm trying to look at draft upgrades/fixes for our dolphins roster right now... most of my attention has been spent on it in looking at college players...and imo barkevious mingo makes a from the jump situational pass rush impact as a pro...a win pass rusher against nfl tackles imo...all the tools to be elite...a top physical talent well worth our 1st round pick wherever it falls...but very likely never to get to us after he blows the doors off the combine with that length that acceleration that long speed those hips and cod...and leaves nfl personnel with their jaws on the floor...
     
  24. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    took a look at justin hunter...left me a little underwhelmed...talent and physical abilities are undeniable...serious explosion there...but very raw...route running needs a lot of work...some ugly looking routes...doesn't mean the kid won't be a monster...but he needs someone to teach him how to run routes...comin off an acl last year also...

    his teammate patterson is a body catcher...not a natural hands catcher...everything gets into the body...i bet he'll fight the ball with his hands...
     
  25. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Which game did you look at? I haven't been impressed with Hunter in the two games I saw but I was impressed with Patterson in the Florida game. He had an OK game against NCST.
     
  26. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i've looked at both those games...i think they play georgia this week unless i'm mistaken...i'm gonna look at that one also...hunter is explosive but raw...doesn't press dbs before his cuts in his routes...doesn't sell things well but he's such a high end gifted explosion athlete in college at least he doesn't have to...i like his hands though...a couple drops i seen but that was more about not getting his head around quick enough imo...tyler bray i don't get all the hype there either...he throws more off his back foot than anyone i'd care to have playing under center...talented but also you can tell sometimes he's just throwing it up for grabs...and the kids a straight up punk...needs to have someone take him down a few notches...

    patterson doesn't get much separation...but he's got pretty good ball awareness...and again i'm having a hard time seeing this kid hand catch anything...bread and butter seems to be slant routes but he'll catch in traffic...saw some back shoulder stuff to him that imo was all about bray and not much about the route being run...just perfectly placed back shoulder darts
     
  27. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    there was a te #11 for florida named reed who i thought was interesting...but he looked like he's probably undersized and that was my first exposure...anyways i thought he showed some things...
     
  28. datruth55

    datruth55 Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Don't like Bray, never have. Think he's got a bad attitude...worse than Jay Cutler without as much talent. I was impressed with Patterson in the way he fought for the ball in traffic and won...not much separation, you're right there but with a guy in his pocket he was still strong enough to come up with the catch.

    I would prefer to stay away from those high end, athletic WRs that can't run routes. More often than not they never seem to get it in the NFL and with an offense like ours where the routes are so important I'd rather go another direction. We don't need another Carl Pickens from Tennessee in the NFL...at least not in Miami.
     
  29. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    Especially in the first round or two. I see some really good things with Hunter, but I just don't see him in the same class as Allen, Wilson, or Woods. Physical talent wise he is better, but as a player right now he is not. If we are going to draft a WR early I want a polished player who is going to come in and make an impact immediately. We can't afford to wait
     
  30. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

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    people either love Bray or hate him. I got a kick out of him during his freshmen year with his X celebration.
     
  31. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    Tyler Bray's arm talent is terrific, the problem is, that's about the extent of the positives with him as far as I'm concerned. His delivery is elongated and he constantly double clutches the ball. Telegraphs his throws with his lower body by opening his hips directly to the target in order to make up some of the timing lost by his slow, elongated release.

    His ball placement and accuracy is sporadic. I see significant YAC opportunities for his receivers left on the field due to inaccuracy. His poor ball placement doesn't stand out as much against SEC competition because his receivers are covered much tighter.... where it stands out the most is against lesser competition because his receivers get so wide open against this level of talent. I watched Justin Hunter literally have to drop to the ground to catch Bray's passes against Georgia St. when there wasn't a defender within 15 yards of him.... leaving significant run-after-catch yards on the field.

    He also gets rattled easily. His decision making goes down the drain under pressure.

    However, the most critical flaw that Bray has is in the intangible department. A lack of leadership and maturity.

    The coaching staff was hoping he would become a leader and dedicate himself to film study in the offseason, but it didn't happen. He was busy throwing beer bottles off balconies and breaking car windshields rather than working on his craft...

    http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/jul/25/tyler-bray-roommate-accused-of-throwing-beer-off/



    Not surprisingly, about two weeks later he was back in front of a judge for a jet skit incident....

    http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/aug/08/bray-to-be-back-in-court-on-boating-charge/



    Personally, I don't see much that he has to offer me on or off the field that would make me want to burn a draft pick on him.
     
  32. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    bingo...i think if you take hunter you're gonna have to wait on him to develop before he really helps you...couldn't agree more with he lacks the polish of a wilson or allen or woods...very raw talent...i think i like wilson the most of the big wrs although the kid that got kicked out of tennessee may be the most talented of the bunch i have only seen him in bits and pieces but that guys got some serious your either born with it or your not abilities imo...i've seen a few things that i was left like "wow"...

    i just wish wilson was playing against sec level comp so i could gauge him better...got oregon this week and i got the dvr set and thats better than colorado and such but it's still not the level i'd like to see how he fares against...that said i see pretty good polish with wilson...i think he helps someone immediately

    woods i haven't seen the same player i saw as a freshman...i remember talking to slimm when that kid was a first year starter and stud and we were both like wow that kids filthy...he hasn't been the same since he hurt that ankle which he even had surgery with this last offseason...not the same explosion and burst player...if i could get the guy i saw on freshman tape i'd jump all over woods with a high round 1 pick but somethings a miss in his game...

    i really like allen i'm just not sure i see a wr that i feel comfortable burning a high top 15 first round pick on in this group...might be wise to wait on receiver to round 2 and fill another need...one of them could drop to us high in round 2...
     
  33. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    that's a great point right there...
     
  34. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I think Hunter/Allen/Woods if all are healthy are worth gambling on. The question becomes where we are drafting. If we're top 10 and we have a chance at Jarvis Jones or Barkevious Mingo do we pass on them for Robert Woods, Justin Hunter, or Keenan Allen?
     
  35. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    you already know my answer on that...although jones looks very much like a 34 olb to me...i guess we could use him like a von miller as a 43 lb...not sure i think it's the best fit though...anyways premium elite pass rush talents i would not pass up for anything else in this likely upcoming class...i still think when it's all said and done we are gonna win too many games though to get a truly elite pass rush talent...

    not a marques wilson fan huh???
     
  36. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    trying to figure out wr terrence williams...he looks like more than just a big body to me...i think i see some suddenness to his game and some ability to separate at the next level...got more going for him than patrick turner did...hard to say if he can get off press yet given all these soft damn coverages and free releases he faces every week...terrence williams needs to come to the senior bowl week and show in one on ones he can get off press and separate in and out of his cuts...it's gonna be a big week for that kid and i'll be paying attention...for a big body i don't see a lot of stiffness in his hips...i think i see some long speed there also...right now i have him as a 3rd round grade with the ability senior bowl week to bump up into the top 50...
     
  37. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    Any top notch CBs coming out this year? I know Slimm was high on the OK St kid..high end tools. I haven't watched him play though. Seen some good things out of Rhodes from FL St as well. Also, any idea where some of these top safeties are going to come off the board. Reid, Whitley, Elam, etc (if they come out)
     
  38. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    It shouldn't necessarily be this way, but what's going to determine where some of these safeties come off the board is how well they run in workouts in a pair of shorts. It'll mean a round's worth of difference for some of these kids.

    Johnathan Banks has the best ball skills on the defensive side of the ball in the entire country. It's not just the interceptions that he gets, it's HOW he gets 'em. He knows what to do with it when he does... his 3 career INT returns for TD's leads all active players in the country. Well, it's actually tied with his teammate Corey Broomfield, but Banks is the better player. Broomfield moved to safety because of another underrated CB on Miss St.'s roster by the name of Darius Slay. Broomfield is undersized at safety, but he does what's necessary for the team and plays great team defense.

    I make it a point to watch 3 CB's from the FCS every week in B.W. Webb, Robert Alford, and Marcus Williams, and they never disappoint. Webb looks terrific even against BCS teams (Maryland, etc.)


    I like Banks, Jordan Poyer, Desmond Trufant, Terry Hawthorne, Broderick Brown, Leon McFadden, D.J. Hayden, B.W.Webb, Marcus Williams, Darius Slay, Corey Broomfield, T'Sharvan Bell, Prentiss Waggner, and Johnny Adams in terms of Seniors.

    As far as underclassman go, Justin Gilbert, Xavier Rhodes, Ricardo Allen, Dee Milliner, Tharold Simon, Andre Hal, Kyle Fuller, Carrington Byndom, and Darqueze Dennard are all good players in my estimation.
     
  39. adrianbello360

    adrianbello360 Active Member

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    What different Wide Recievers are we looking at getting this years draft? What about TE's too? Fasano is in his contract year
     
  40. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    I will have to see if I can see a few of these guys play this year. I have seen Banks play and liked what I saw out of him. Ive also seen Hawthorne and Adams...I liked Hawthorne more between those two. Tharold Simon is a solid prospect IMO. What do you see out of Milliner? I saw one game where he looked sloppy out there..then another where he looked like a 1st round prospect.
     

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