If stadium vote passes, Dolphins to stay in Miami through at least 2043

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Nublar7, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/03/...ns-present-detailed.html#.UVDMrJFB9gw.twitter

    A lot of other new details in this article about the proposed stadium renovations. Public money is actually 43%, not 49% as originally reported. Dolphins will also repay the money to the county in 2043.

    Man I hope this passes, would be nice to completely squash the relocation talk/rumors once and for all.
     
  2. Stefins

    Stefins Just a Dolphins Fan

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    I am really starting worry about the team in 2044!!!
     
  3. little biggen

    little biggen Well-Known Member

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    I agree tired of hearing that there is even a small chance we would move the team. I wouldn't know what to do with my Sundays. It's been a tradition in my house for the last 3 yrs to watch every fins game with my 2 sons.
     
  4. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Well there havent been any relocation talk or rumors just fans pulling stuff out of air. Not once has anything came out speculating the dolphins would move. I will say this does sound better than initially put out. I personally would prefer 33 percent by taxpayers, 33 percent by Ross and 33 percent from NFL. I do wish I could borrow money and pay it back in 30 years lol. Im totally against corporate welfare but at least this seems like an actual attempt to not be exactly that. I would also like in agreement that we will not be asked for renovation money until money is paid back.
     
  5. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    It sounds like a good deal to me. But I doubt people even look at the deal on offer. They will just look at the Marlins and vote no.
     
  6. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Not to mention the horrible heat deal
     
  7. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    Ross may not ever move the team out of Miami, but he isn't going to own the team forever. Eventually he is going to sell it to another billionaire, who is to say what that person will want to do with the team. With no lease with the area, it will always be a concern.
     
  8. Casas9425

    Casas9425 A True Fan

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    It's a pretty good deal. I hope it passes.
     
  9. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Do the deal South Florida.
     
  10. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    lease or not the stadium comes with deal which isnt always the case. There are actually limited cities that can actually support an NFL team and it would be risky to move from a prime location and tv market to somewhere else. LA is a huge risk to move an established team that has drawn well when the team has been solid. We averaged 73,000 in 2002. The city of Miami or florida have dolled out plenty of money to help our team owners as well as subsidies as well as giving away land.
     
  11. TheJetsBlow

    TheJetsBlow A True Fan

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    There has never been any relocation rumors or talk at all, except on this board. The Dolphins aren't going anywhere, regardless of whether this passes or not.
     
  12. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin Playoffs Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Miami dolphins the rest of my life! Hope they can get it done so i will never have to worry about relocation again.
     
  13. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    Who can predict what the new owner down the road will do? They would be inheriting a stadium in desperate need of renovations, empty seats on game day and a local area that gives public money to the basketball and baseball team, but not the NFL team. What the next owner might do is always going to be a major concern without a lease with the area.
     
  14. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    they would inherit empty seast if we continue to be bad, I mean u ignore that we have lost 10,000 fans the past two years. I personally hope local and state governments quit giving away money to sports teams.
    I will admit this deal is much better than the crappy heat deal(hey we play in arena for free not to mention u built us two arenas) and the crappy Marlins deal(give all money to marlins). I do find it funny so many act like Sun Life is so out of date but somehow we just hosted the BCS championship lol.

    The superbowl arguement is flawed because the NFL is now using the superbowl to force public money from cities so no site is going to be getting as many superbowls as they think.
     
  15. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I'd prefer to see no public money whatsoever, but the fact is that I flat out don't know what sort of financial structure Steve Ross is working with. It's my understanding that all of the public money would come from a 1% increase in the hotel bed tax (I don't think this would scare away even one tourist) and a sales tax rebate on merchandise sold inside the stadium. As a resident of Dade County, I don't have an issue with that deal at all.

    What I'd like to see is what kind of financial benefits hosting Super Bowls and other big events brings to the county in terms of revenue. Miami has hosted a lot of Super Bowls over the years, so I can guarantee that someone in the county accounting office knows the numbers. I'd be interested to see them. I do think that drawing in more events -- and especially the Super Bowl -- would have to be worth more for Dade County than the revenue on sales tax from a stadium that may or may not continue hosting a professional football team.
     
  16. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    Any new owner would see the benefits of keeping the team in a world famous location. If this was Buffalo, i could see that argument. This is Miami. The reason why the team isnt maximizing its profit is because the product they put on the field is lacking.

    For some, 4 consecutive losing seasons is not a good thing. That is the reason why ticket sales are dropping. How our owner is completely confused by that is beyond me.

    edit: Heres my questions: has Stephen Ross paid off the $200 million debt from our last set of renovations? And who will pay for the next set of renovations?
     
  17. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    Doesn't Miami currently have the lowest TV figures in the NFL? Not to mention our attendance figures, Miami is a great city but a nice beach will only keep the team for so long.
     
  18. Playmaker76

    Playmaker76 Well-Known Member

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    If the Dolphins reimburse the city the $120 million as the article states, the deal is a no brainer. Can't ask for much more than that. The team essentially ends up paying the entire bill minus inflation and interest costs.
     
  19. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    The problem with financial benefits analysis reports from nfl and teams they always seem to do two things. Way over value the benefits and forget substitution principle which basically implies that people would spend money on other things in Miami. They want you to believe ridiculous numbers that most independent reports would devalue by at least 75 percent. That being said there is a benefit but not close to the benefit that the NFL and ownership would have u believe. I mean we set a record for visitors and money spent in area in a non super bowl year recently and this was 10 percent more than the previous year which encompassed a superbowl. The whole idea of a money making machine having taxpayers foot the bill while they make record profits is almost insulting, well it is insulting. I mean the heat havent paid one dime to play in their arena and they want to renew their lease big suprise lol
     
  20. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    Again, attendance will be fine if we win. There is money to be made in Miami for any football team. The key is winning. People are tired of giving money to a loser.
     
  21. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    ratings and attendance are down because we are a losing team. Attendence was midlevel in nfl just two years ago, and two more losing seasons have us at bottom, no big suprise not to mention lack of big names
     
  22. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Kind of funny Robert Kraft privately financed a stadium in NE in 2002 for 350 million and now 10 years later that just is a renovation that of course the taxpayers have to foot a good portion of
     
  23. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    That's why I would love to see what the county's analysts think here, the figures they are working with. What I do know is that the county DOES want the Super Bowl and events, so I have to assume that even if a Super Bowl isn't as lucrative as the NFL wants us to believe (and I guarantee that you're right and it's not), it's still viewed as a boon to the local economy and county coffers rather than a curse.

    I've now seen that the Dolphins have pledged to pay the cost of any construction overruns and shortfalls in the projected revenue from the bed tax, as well as paying a penalty to the county if the stadium doesn't get four Super Bowls over 30 years. It'll be interesting to see if the county can get any other concessions out of the Dolphins before this goes to a vote.

    I will probably vote in favor of this assuming that the information I've seen so far is correct.

    In an ideal world, sports teams would 100% pay their own way, but I know that this isn't an ideal world and I do know that the Miami Dolphins have been one of the very, very few professional teams that has 100% paid their own way for forty odd years. We're not talking about Jeffrey "Scumbag" Loria screwing the county long and hard so that he can slash payroll here.
     
  24. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Yea thats why taxpayers and politicians need to actually make educated choices and quit falling for the bs these sports leagues keep doing. These franchises like any other business help the local economy but they are far from the backbone of our economy. Joe Robbie was a great owner much like as much as people wont admit Kraft is a great owner that did the things the way they are supposed to be done.
     
  25. jimmy42jack0

    jimmy42jack0 Starter

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    And the only reason he financed it himself was that the tax payers here wouldn't pay for it after he threatened to move the team to Connecticut.

    The Phins have as much of a chance of leaving south Florida as the Red Sox have leaving Boston
     
  26. Spesh

    Spesh #freespesh

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    Id love to say "it shouldnt be" in an ideal world, but i suppose that would just prove your point. I dont disagree with your post. The NFL is the real villain here. Despite being a 9 billion dollar industry, they cant be bothered to pay for their own product. Instead theyve resorted to blackmail. And i think thats the driving force behind Miami-Dades openness to this proposal. If the worse were to occur(which i doubt) and the team did move, it would be politicial suicide for those who were publically against it. Ideology or not, people love their sports.

    This deal isnt bad by NFL standards. That the county is turning the tables on the league by fining the team if they dont deliver is a good move. I can only hope that becomes standard practice for these deals. No doubt the county does want their Superbowls, but i wouldnt be surprised if they sat there and said "everyone knows this deal will get done, but lets try and squeeze out every single concession we can to screw the league over"....actually, its more of "...every single concession so we can look good", but i can pretend otherwise.

    The practical part of me isnt against this. But i despise giving into blackmail. Which is exactly whats happening here and in every single other stadium negotiation.
     
  27. jimmy42jack0

    jimmy42jack0 Starter

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    The Marlins Park was financed by a hotel bed tax. Please stop perpetuating this lie that Loria is an "evil" capitalist. He is a baseball team owner who understands every grand American city has a baseball team and a world class ball park that tourists can get interested in. Loria helped to create jobs during a recession and those jobs went to miamians.

    If you want to be angry about the trade with the Blue Jays, fine. Be angry. But in regard to the Phins, they aren't leaving Miami
     
  28. dfinz77

    dfinz77 Active Member

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    are there any plans to build nice hotels,restaurants, attractions, etc. next to the stadium
     
  29. J. David Wannyheimer

    J. David Wannyheimer 5 Years of Posting Excellence. Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Are you David Samson or something? If so, your father-in-law, Jeffrey Loria, is a scumbag who ripped off the residents of Dade County by lying about the team's financial situation and taking advantage of a crooked mayor.
     
  30. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Still not like he couldnt have relocated elsewhere , and wasnt it like Hartford which isnt some great distance from Boston.
    he had plenty of options.
    He is the main reason the team is still in NE because the former from St Louis owner wanted to move the team to ST Louis in 1994 by buying out Kraft as a minority owner. Kraft rejected it and paid a then NFL record price for the team He also purchased the stadium when it was facing bankruptcy and bought 6000 tickets tickets to sell out every game for the first time in franchise history. Kraft is a great owner, a genuine fan of his own team from the beginning not just a business man trying to make a profit(now dont get me wrong he is business man first but most owners dont have a history of being a fan of the team they buy. Kraft was a season ticket holder since 1971. Kind of a cool thing to have an owner from area that actually was a fan of team and not just an investment.
     
  31. jimmy42jack0

    jimmy42jack0 Starter

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    No, I'm a diehard baseball fan who actually sat through the meetings with the city and county and listened to all the financial disclosures and how the deal would be presented. The vast majority of the stadium was paid for by the tax and Mr. Loria himself.

    World class American cities require baseball to played to be played in a baseball park and not a football stadium. Anyone who feels differently should honestly move to Oakland. Is this to say Loria won't make a ton of money or the city didn't help with a sweetheart deal that provided jobs then(during construction), now and 40 years into the future? Absolutely not. But the jobs aspect was a big part of the deal
     
  32. jimmy42jack0

    jimmy42jack0 Starter

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    His dealings with trying to put Casinos in this area is sickening though. Fine. Be an admirable team owner but he is trying to put people out of there houses in order to have casinos near the stadium
     
  33. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Well it would create a helluva lot of jobs and money for the area. thats great for everyone except the people that may have to move
     
  34. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    Let's see, we fear an NFL franchise relocating but have no concern about 30 more seasons in a venue that has proven to be one of the worst in the league in terms of home field impact.

    Makes perfect sense.
     
  35. Zounds

    Zounds A True Fan Donator

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    In these kind of referendums, interested parties tend to show up more - like football fans, contractors, vendors, ect. People who are disinterested in football or local government probably wont show up to vote.

    ---------- Post added at 08:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 AM ----------

    It doesn't say 30 seasons in the same venue. It says 30 seasons in the same city.
     
  36. Nublar7

    Nublar7 Retired Finheaven VIP

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    30 year lease to remain in South Florida, not a 30 year lease at Sun Life Stadium.
     
  37. Paper Tigers

    Paper Tigers light the world on fire

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    I wish people would have the balls to stand up to these bogus blackmailing techniques. I love the Dolphins but I still don't think a dime of taxpayer money should be spent on them or any other sports franchise for that matter. If every county/state just had the conviction to say no to these scumbag owners we wouldn't have to worry about this but there are always equally scummy politicians involved who cave and take kickbacks and/or campaign contributions to give a yes vote.

    Our school system is in budgetary hell, our bridges are falling apart and we are talking about giving money to a football team? Really?

    God bless America.
     
  38. russianbear

    russianbear A True Fan

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    Yea, why let the fans pay anything for the franchise they enjoy on a day to day basis, many of which without paying more than average TV/Internet costs to watch/talk about them. Curse the politicians! Down with the system!
     
  39. ohall

    ohall A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.

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    If the ppl of Dade county turn this deal down, they deserve to lose the Miami Dolphins franchise at some point in the future. And I have no doubt if Ross can't get Dade county to help with the cost, he will in time find an excuse to move. And personally I wouldn't blame him. Miami is a spoiled front running sports town, they seem to think having a NFL franchise is some kind of berth right. We've had Dolphin owners that have basically paid their way the entire history of our franchise and the ppl of Dade county don't seem to appreciate how lucky we have been.
     
  40. ohall

    ohall A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.

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    So a city should pay almost nothing to keep a NFL franchise while taking the TAX money that a NFL franchise generates for the county and state? I won't even go into how many jobs the Miami Dolphins franchise provides for Dade county and the state of Florida. This concept that tax payers shouldn't pay to keep a sports franchise is naive IMO.

    As far as the school stuff, give me a break. We have spent billions of dollars on our school system and all that has happened is it has gotten worse every year. You want to fix the school system, make teachers accountable. If your students get F's you should be high on the list to be let go. That's how you fix our school system.
     
  41. Paper Tigers

    Paper Tigers light the world on fire

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    I own a small business that creates jobs and tax revenue, why isn't the state paying me?


    Since when has it been the taxpayers responsibility to fund businesses? I thought we were a country based on free market capitalism.


    I'm not going to get in a political debate but the broader point is our counties, states and federal goverments are all in extreme debt, handing out corporate welfare shouldn't even be a discussion now.
     
  42. Paper Tigers

    Paper Tigers light the world on fire

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    Excuse me, I didn't realize I was paying for my $90 ticket, $8 beers and $7 hot dogs with monopoly money.

    and just an FYI: The NFL has some of the most lucrative deals on TV, which in turn is passed onto the customer when they have to pay their $150 cable bill. There is nothing "average" about the money they make on TV deals.
     
  43. ohall

    ohall A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.

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    You call it welfare I call it good business. If Dade county won't take care of the Dolphins there are many many cities out there that will make them feel at home. If other cities take care of their sport franchises, why can't the Dolphins expect that from their city? If I was a sports franchise and I felt I was being ill treated, I may seriously think of saying bye bye because of that reality.

    Because those tax payers get a return on their investment. If they don't understand that, then they deserve to lose that sports franchise.

    And if you run a small business then you know you get certain tax breaks. If you don't, hire a better accountant.
     
  44. TealAttack13

    TealAttack13 A True Fan

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    While I doubt they would ever leave, it is absolutely IMPERATIVE that they lock this thing down. For what it is worth, I'm sure the Dolphins make a hell of a lot more money for South Florida than the Marlins do. While I was happy to see Miami retain the Marlins, I certainly hope the "we already paid for a stadium" argument doesn't start up. Ultimately it will, but I would hate to see the Fins future in jeopardy.
     
  45. ohall

    ohall A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.

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    And this is America. When you have the best product you expect the best results. If you remove that incentive for businesses then you are basically killing what has made this country the best. Why would anyone put in the effort to be the best if they didn't get the best results? I mean I don't understand what reality you are living in.

    No one is saying these guys aren't making a mint. What I'm saying is, no **** they are! You have to deal with reality here. The NFL holds the cards, not the other way around.

    If someone doesn't like they can go watch the CFL!
     
  46. jimmy42jack0

    jimmy42jack0 Starter

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    I agree with you whole heartedy about giving breaks to major sports franchises to keep them in an area and keep that area's economy healthy

    I disagree entirely about vilifying teachers though but I won't go into details of that on this thread.

    I think Stephen Ross would do well to pay for his own renovations, get a future Super Bowl set for Miami and then renegotiate the team lease with the understanding of a continued fruitful relationship between the team, city and county
     
  47. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    The dolphins job impact for the state of florida and miami quite minimal. The promise of thousands of jobs by Mike Dee is an outright lie. Yes there will be temporary jobs in conbstruction but this is far from job creation because once the renovations are done those jobs are gone. The dolphins employ at most about 200 people.
     
  48. ohall

    ohall A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.

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    There are 3 teachers in my family, I'm not vilifying anyone. They share my opinion, and they go further, they blame most teachers unions. In every other profession, they keep the best, and they discard the bad. Why should they be immune to that? Yes I understand teachers are handcuffed in many ways, with all the LIB tendencies our school system has embraced. But we're talking about our children, our future here. We need to do what is best for them, not what makes a small minority of ppl feel better.

    What annoys me about ppl whining about what Ross is asking for, he's not asking for a lot. The man could ask the city to pay for 100%, yet he's asking for only 43% and he's going to pay it ALL back. He's basically giving the whiners what they want, but there they are still whining. If the bill isn't passed, I hope Ross learns a very good lesson. Miami Dolphin fans that live in Miami are nothing more than front running fans, that don't know what they have. I'd make them learn a hard lesson. Make them miss what they once had.
     
  49. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Nobody has mistreated the dolphins. In fact the area where the stadium was built was donated to them. They have been given all kinds of subsidies and tyax breaks over the years.

    Also its a myth that tons of cities that there are alot of cities that are vying to support an NFL team. There are actually very few that can actually support an NFL team as well as willing to pay for the initial costs of having one. Hell even LA has struggled to gain an NFL team. Owning an NFL team sounds nice and dandy but people know to lure a team there will cost the local taxpayers and its not all these cities are thriving right now
     
  50. Paper Tigers

    Paper Tigers light the world on fire

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    A good business wouldn't need corporate welfare to stay afloat.

    and my point was that if no county "made them feel at home" by bribing them corporate welfare we wouldn't have this problem to begin with. Football teams would stay in the areas that are the most profitable, still provide tax revenue and jobs and the taxpayers wouldn't have to be suckered into footing part of a companies bill.




    ...and those tax breaks are provided to any similar business as mine, I am receiving no special treatment because of my lobbying power, and/or because i'm buddy buddy with a few politicians. The same cannot be said for the Dolphins who will be receiving tax payer FUNDS (on top of tax breaks).

    If you can't see the difference between providing uniformly equal tax breaks across the board and paying a single large corporation with tax payer money than we might as well end this debate now.
     

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