ILB Chris Borland, Wisconsin in round two???

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Roman529, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    I really like Chris Borland. He reminds me a lot of #54 Zach Thomas the way he hustles all over the field, and he is about the same size as Zach (5'11, 245). I know many people like Mosley, but I think we need to get an O-lineman who we can plug in to start right away, at either RT or RG, before we get a middle linebacker. What do you guys think about Borland?

    [video=youtube;WCbBmcxmFHY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCbBmcxmFHY[/video]

    Watch the hit he puts on the Nebraska Running Back. We could use some of this toughness.

    [video=youtube;RBqrZU3xImk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBqrZU3xImk[/video]
     
  2. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    I really like Borland and think he'll be there is R2. I see Mosley as a more complete player, but I wouldn't mind having Shazier or Borland is Miami misses out on Mosley.
     
  3. jnewmant

    jnewmant Hit folks and like it!

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    I like blue collar, bring your lunch pail to work with you linebackers. Zach was definitely that type of guy and Borland looks to be the same. The thing that made Zach great was his preparation and intensity, looks like we'd be getting comparable intensity from Borland but I doubt his preparation is even remotely close to Zach's. All that being said, if Mosley is there in round one you take him. Solid all around linebacker, hard worker, very cerebral, and he seems to always be at the right place at the right time.
     
  4. sinPHIN

    sinPHIN A True Fan

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    he is my man crush for this draft, i love this guy, and would be very excited if we picked him up. im hoping to grab him in two, and if not hopefully he falls to us in three. i dont see it happening tho its wishful thinking

    ---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------

    he has by far the best instincts coming out. love this guy
     
  5. MiamiDolphin618

    MiamiDolphin618 A True Fan

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    Fantastic player and fit for us. I do like Mosely..but he's the odd man out for me. I think Borland is the best Mike in this draft. And if you want a WOLB I think Shazier is better.

    Borland in Rd 2 would be a great pick
     
  6. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    I'm all on board with Borland in the second round. Looks like he's going to be a great player.
     
  7. miami9954

    miami9954 Rookie Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Looks greaat against the run,how is he in pass protection?
     
  8. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    Jeff Ireland seemed to be pretty rigid in only picking players that met certain height, weight, timed speed metrics for certain positions. It was rare for him to ever draft linebackers who were undersized. I have no doubt that he would never have drafted Zach Thomas because he would have been considered too small.
    But ding dong - the witch is dead. Hickey may not be bound by the draft rules governed by the metrics like Jeff. Borland is undersized but he reminds me a lot of Zach - even down to the way he tossed the tackled players. The resemblance in tackling style is quite extraordinary.
    We need a speedy middle linebacker who can tackle. If he is physically sound and a good character guy, he could be the 2nd round pick (and there is no need to try to get cute about hoping he drops to the 3rd). Philip Wheeler is a financial boat anchor due to a ridiculous guaranteed ballooning amount in this, his second year. But Borland could be good enough to beat him for the position from the get go.
     
  9. Hungover

    Hungover Scout Team

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    Pretty steep drop off at ILB after Borland, no real 3 down players at the position after he's drafted? Wouldn't be surprised if that does push him into round 2.
     
  10. FuturePhin

    FuturePhin Pro Bowler

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    I'd be excited to have him in rd 2. Plays with a lot of intensity
     
  11. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    yep...there are not many 3 down mike options...and a lot of 2 down lbs period in this class
     
  12. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    the concern here and its a legitimate one imo is are you getting a 3 down lb here...he tested as a VERY average athlete at the combine...couple that with the short arms and the undersized height wise to begin with and it definitely makes you wonder what you are getting...does show nice lateral footwork and quickness in drills...

    if he's a 3 down lb 2nd round makes sense given the instincts if he's not a every down guy cause he can't handle the movement requirements to not be an eye sore in the nickle then 3rd round is more wherei see the value in a 2 down guy...

    and i'm not really sure what he is...some days i say 3 down others i say ehhh can he play in the nickle

    james morris who looks more a 2 down lb at iowa who doesnt have great range showed as more athletic at the combine...and would be a day 3 mike target for me as a 2 down guy...i think he's undervalued
     
  13. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I'd definitely prefer Morris in the 4th or 5th to Borland in the 2nd or 3rd. I don't have a lot separating the two. Not a good draft for Mikes, imo.
     
  14. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    yeah it's not a good draft for mikes especially if you think mosley is more a will fit...which i do...it's a good draft for 3 down wills i'd say...guys like kirksey in the mid rounds look like very good values to me...but dont give me any telvin smith....he all of 219 lbs...let someone else take that

    as for inside lbs skov hasn't run for anyone yet i'm sure he's worried about putting up a number near a 5 and been avoiding it for just that reason but he's an average athlete even in college and looks more a 2 down guy

    kyle van noy is a 2 down solb who if he plays on 3rd down will likely get some rush run like we give misi...i like the player but he struggles in space and doesnt show off all that great lateral ability...straight line speed was better than anticipated though i'd say
     
  15. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I do like Borland, Bullough, Morris, and Skov. I think they're guys who max out their potential, but I agree. Skov is likely dodging the 40. I can see him as a smaller, lesser Brandon Spikes.

    I like Van Noy. Not a super athlete, but I like his instincts and play-making ability. His pass rush is a plus, because I do agree that you don't want him covering in too much space (3rd down situations). But I see a guy who can cover well enough on base downs and has a knack for making plays around or behind the LOS with enough versatility and pass rush ability to keep in on the field in that role on 3rd.
     
  16. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    just depends on what you ask van noy to do on 3rd down...if it's go forward yeah i can get down with it has nice short area lateral quicks as a blitz rusher but if the o can set him up[ where he has to carry coverage you in trouble...he looks lioke a patriots late round 2 guy to me...early 3rd round for most teams that the pats scoop up with a specific plan and role

    its too bad lamin barrow doesnt show better instincts cause athletically hes what you want...
     
  17. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    The guy I keep thinking of for a pro comp is a more athletic - smaller - Mike Vrabel. Basically, a 4-3 SAM version of Vrabel.
     
  18. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    yeah i can see that although vrabel had a little better size as i recall...i think he played 34 olb for the pats
     
  19. SF Dolphin Fan

    SF Dolphin Fan Seasoned Veteran

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    What are your thoughts on Borland in coverage? I love him in the run game, but that's my main concern. Is he a three down player?
     
  20. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    I agree with you guys that there are not many options at the mike lb position but I think Borland is worth rolling the dice on. There was a good article on Borland in today's Green Bay paper. It sounds like the writer was hoping the Packers go after him. Also, not sure about his pass coverage, but he has been able to get some QB sacks at Wisconsin.

    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...ormer-UW-teammate-believes-underrated-Borland
     
  21. cane6

    cane6 Well-Known Member

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    Between his numerous injuries, lack of athletic ability and subpar pass defense I would not take Borland in Rd2. Round 4 is highest I'd go.

    Based on measurables and translation to the NFL games, if your chooses are Mosley in 1 vs Borland in 2 you go Mosley all day

    ---------- Post added at 07:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 AM ----------

    Between his numerous injuries, lack of athletic ability and subpar pass defense I would not take Borland in Rd2. Round 4 is highest I'd go.

    Based on measurables and translation to the NFL games, if your chooses are Mosley in 1 vs Borland in 2 you go Mosley all day
     
  22. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    james morris stock on the uptick after he tested better than expected at the combine...more fluid...i have bumped him up to the 4th round even if he is a 2 down lb in the pros
     
  23. Buff

    Buff From a galaxy far far away.... Finheaven VIP Donator

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    He will be long gone by the time we get to our 2nd pick. He is a top 40 player. If we really want him, we trade up to get him.
     
  24. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    He's going to be another guy that if we pass on we'll be sitting there wishing we did pick him like all the other instinctive linebackers in past drafts... He's the real deal and the ONLY thing people can say bad about him is his height, everything else is good. 1st round talent that will fall to the 2nd round.
     
  25. finsfanjay13

    finsfanjay13 Rookie Donator

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    I'd personally pass on Borland in the second. Just too many players I like better that could be there.
     
  26. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Id like to see one thread on borland that doesnt mention zach
     
  27. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    I respect your opinion. I don't follow the college football as closely as the NFL, so I don't see as many games.
    However, when I see the Borland highlights, I see a flatout tackling machine with a big heart and great determination. He has probably been told by everyone that he's too small for the position and this has helped to make him better.
    Some of the draft purists seem to fixate on the body size and performance metrics. It's probably the reason why Zach Thomas dropped all the way to the 5th round. In Borland I see a player who fits our need to do a lot of tackling in the MIKE position. It would be nice to get a bigger, faster physical specimen, but the late swooping speed that he closes in for tackles impresses the hell out of me. I haven't seen enough of his games to know if the highlights look great but he doesn't play like that enough.
    While Mosely may be better, our O-line needs may be such that the call is simply made to take one and get the LB later. It's actually an interesting test how Hickey prioritizes the needs.
     
  28. SCLSU Mud Dogs

    SCLSU Mud Dogs foos-ball is the devil! Donator

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    Are we really arguing that a guy won't be a good player because of short arms?

    The guy is a football player. He's more athletic than the 40 time he ran. He's instinctive and is around the ball. Absolutely on board with him.
     
  29. Ed Norton

    Ed Norton Scout Team

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    You just don't know how a guy is going to work out in the NFL but almost as you said above, "Now that's a football player" was my first thought.
     
  30. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

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    I like borland a lot, but not in the 2nd rnd.

    You can't take a Ilb in the second round, who is undersized and a mismatch in the pass game.
     
  31. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

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    xXwarXx - Did you get brainwashed by Jeff Ireland that ILBs have to be a certain height and weight? Did it get taught in Drafting 101 on the NFL Network? Why is it that so many otherwise really smart Dolphin fans are so inflexible re the height/weight basic parameters and the accompanying performance metrics? At what point do you consider actual game performance and are prepared to overlook the height/weight preferences?
    Anyone who watched our linebackers last year could see for the massive investment, they were weak at tackling, and Philip Wheeler, in particular, in some games was terrible. Now that Ireland has left the building we have a chance to get a MIKE linebacker who can make a lot of tackles. It is the obvious deficiency of the entire Defense. Our D-line and our DBs are decent.
    Tackling machines don't come as cheap as they used to. If Borland is as good as his tackling looks, he is projected to go in the 2nd round. That's the market rate. Last year Buffalo got their tackling machine, Kiko Alonso in the 2nd round and he improved their entire Defense.
     
  32. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Kiko Alonso is 6'3.

    It's rare to see a guy with Borland's size and athleticism thrive in the NFL. For him to earn and keep a starting spot in the NFL, his instincts and football IQ will have to be elite. I'd consider him in the 4th, but there will probably be players there that I prefer.
     
  33. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    Cough....Zach Thomas.....just saying.
     
  34. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Zach Thomas was faster than Borland is, and even with that, he was the exception. If you build your draft strategy on finding the exceptions, you're going to have a bad team.
     
  35. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx Banned Hammered

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    Most undersized players don't excel in the NFL. Like I said, I really like Borland, there's a ton to like about him. But you NEVER draft undersized players high in the draft, too risky.

    The guy already has a string of injuries in college. Most likely it will be worse in the NFL.

    That's just the reality of life in the NFL. Stop looking at the few undersized players who made it and look back at all the players who were incredibly talented who were small, and didn't make it, a lot of these guys couldn't even make it through camp let alone there rookie contracts.

    ---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------

    This
     
  36. kcbrown

    kcbrown Life is what we make it. Donator

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    Wow, this kid looks impressive. Filling holes, tackling behind the line of scrimmage, always grabbing trying to create fumbles, intercepting passes like Zach...would love to have this guy on the team.

    LB needs to be either our first or second round pick. Our LB's currently are very sub-standard. Of course, is still of the utmost importance (as well as another offensive playmaker in my mind TE/WR).
     
  37. fishbanger

    fishbanger Phin fan since 1970!

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    I like Mosely in the first round. Other then that I would wait till 4th round or later to draft ILB.
     
  38. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    This is easily the most difficult prospect to put a value grade on I have had in years...Chris Borland makes my head hurt
     
  39. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I definitely get that. But in the first 3 rounds (at least), you're going to have options that are easy to like. Too many productive football players with high-end tools to look at Borland before the 4th. I wouldn't bet against him, but I wouldn't bet on him with one of our top 3 picks.
     
  40. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    It will be may 7th and I still won't have decided...instincts are paramount at lb and he's got em in spades but man he's undersized ok short armed ehhh and an average at best athlete...can he play 3 downs in the pros hell if I know and that just keeps me from being able to peg his value...you could end up with athletically a core special teamer here if it goes south...more likely though the safe bet is 2 down mike I guess...

    But I can get James Morris early day 3 instinctual better size every bit as athletic early day 3 for a worst case 2 down mike...4th round Morris should be there
     

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