Slappy8800
Breathing is the hardest thing to do.
if you have to ask, then no
Is Zo a hall of famer?
- Thread starter TerryTate
- Start date
Roman529
Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew
It is easier to get into the NFL Hall of Fame compared to baseballs but it is still tough to get in....guys like Mo Cheeks, Adrian Dantley and Dominique Wilkins are not in and they had better careers than ZO.. BUT he might get in just because of how good he was before his health problems...just like Drazen Petrovich who died in a car accident.
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
Roman529 said:
Thank You...now what was so hard to understand about that?
Drazen was in because of his International play also, not just NBA. It's called the Basketball Hall of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame so they consider your basketball body of work. Zo has never technically won a Gold Medal (he was on the 2000 team but left because of his kidney), he didn't win an NBA or NCAA title, and he's only gotten his team to the Conference Finals in his prime. Here's a list of all Zo's accomplishments (you can look at every play who's ever played in the NBA on this website to compare). I think he falls short!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mournal01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mournal01.html
painnotpleasure
Hall Of Famer
I think Mourning will eventually make it into Hall Of Fame, but I doubt that it will be on first ballot. But there's no doubt in my mind if he never had health problems, that he would have continued his successful career been inducted into the Hall Of Fame.. NO DOUBT
Roman529 said:
Drazen got in b/c he was a great international player, the basketball HOF is not just the NBA HOF it is all of basketball but 'Zo was never a great college player(I mean a GREAT college player where that would weigh heavily on his possible selction, his legacy in college was getting bunced early from the Tourney as high seeds. His most memorable moment in college was as a 1 seed nearly becoming the first 1 to lose to a 16 seed as they barely held off Princeton by a point) so it's based all on NBA and he was never great in the NBA. What's interesting is that in Drazen's few years in the league he made 1 all-NBA team which is only 1 less than 'Zo who played more than twice as long as Drazen. 'Zo is not a HOFer.
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
GREG COTE said it best.....
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/basketball/11594580.htm
Check Zo's numbers: They add up just fine
GREG COTE
gcote@herald.com
Four current members of the Heat family should be in basketball's Hall of Fame someday. Shaquille O'Neal will be a first-ballot lock. Coach-turned-club president Pat Riley belongs, for sure. Bet on Dwyane Wade, if early brilliance is indicative.
And add Alonzo Mourning, right now.
Zo is not a clear-cut, top-tier pick in the Bird/Magic/Shaq category; no claim here that he is. But those dismissing him as a borderline candidate at best might need to reconsider his career accomplishments in the context of the 258 persons presently enshrined in the hall in Springfield, Mass.
Mourning's numbers stack up. He is a seven-time All-Star -- twice NBA Defensive Player of the Year -- and a shot-block specialist with career totals just a fraction under 20/10 for points/rebounds.
Hall of Famer Calvin Murphy made one All-Star team and averaged 17.9 points.
Hall of Famer Kevin McHale, seldom the best player on his own team, averaged 17.9 points and 7.3 rebounds.
Hall of Famers James Worthy, Gail Goodrich and Jerry Lucas (among many others) also averaged fewer points than Zo.
Hall of Famer Walt Bellamy made four All-Star teams and averaged about the same (20.1) as Zo. Hall of Famer David Thompson also made only four All-Star teams.
COMPARES FAVORABLY
Want to compare centers? Hall of Famer Bob Lanier, considered one of the all-time greats, averaged less than one point and one rebound better than Mourning. Nate Thurmond averaged only 15 points and, like Zo, was overshadowed and never considered the best center in his era. But he's in the hall.
And forget that Zo hasn't won a ring (yet). It is a fallacy that not enough winning bars the door for otherwise deserving players. Everybody cites Dominique Wilkins as proof, but he'll get in someday, and for now he is the exception, not the rule.
Murphy never won an NBA title, nor did Alex English or dozens of other Hall of Famers. That includes centers such as Lanier and Thurmond. Future Hall of Fame center Patrick Ewing? He has similar career numbers to Zo's. And no ring.
Other factors will weigh in Mourning's favor.
His kidney ailment that robbed him of three-plus prime seasons will be an intangible having nothing to do with sympathy. Sports halls of fame have a history of not penalizing outstanding players whose careers were cut short, usually by injury. For example, Gale Sayers made Canton despite playing only seven seasons.
BEYOND THE NBA
Consideration of Mourning also will be helped by his Olympic participation and excellent college career at Georgetown, because the basketball hall encompasses the sport at large, not just one's NBA career. Surely Zo's character and great charitable works off-court also will pull weight with voters, if subconsciously.
Mourning will be seen in the broad view as perhaps the sport's greatest defensive center since Bill Russell, and a man who put up Hall-caliber career numbers despite a late-career kidney ailment.
It will be enough, or, rather, should be.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/basketball/11594580.htm
Check Zo's numbers: They add up just fine
GREG COTE
gcote@herald.com
Four current members of the Heat family should be in basketball's Hall of Fame someday. Shaquille O'Neal will be a first-ballot lock. Coach-turned-club president Pat Riley belongs, for sure. Bet on Dwyane Wade, if early brilliance is indicative.
And add Alonzo Mourning, right now.
Zo is not a clear-cut, top-tier pick in the Bird/Magic/Shaq category; no claim here that he is. But those dismissing him as a borderline candidate at best might need to reconsider his career accomplishments in the context of the 258 persons presently enshrined in the hall in Springfield, Mass.
Mourning's numbers stack up. He is a seven-time All-Star -- twice NBA Defensive Player of the Year -- and a shot-block specialist with career totals just a fraction under 20/10 for points/rebounds.
Hall of Famer Calvin Murphy made one All-Star team and averaged 17.9 points.
Hall of Famer Kevin McHale, seldom the best player on his own team, averaged 17.9 points and 7.3 rebounds.
Hall of Famers James Worthy, Gail Goodrich and Jerry Lucas (among many others) also averaged fewer points than Zo.
Hall of Famer Walt Bellamy made four All-Star teams and averaged about the same (20.1) as Zo. Hall of Famer David Thompson also made only four All-Star teams.
COMPARES FAVORABLY
Want to compare centers? Hall of Famer Bob Lanier, considered one of the all-time greats, averaged less than one point and one rebound better than Mourning. Nate Thurmond averaged only 15 points and, like Zo, was overshadowed and never considered the best center in his era. But he's in the hall.
And forget that Zo hasn't won a ring (yet). It is a fallacy that not enough winning bars the door for otherwise deserving players. Everybody cites Dominique Wilkins as proof, but he'll get in someday, and for now he is the exception, not the rule.
Murphy never won an NBA title, nor did Alex English or dozens of other Hall of Famers. That includes centers such as Lanier and Thurmond. Future Hall of Fame center Patrick Ewing? He has similar career numbers to Zo's. And no ring.
Other factors will weigh in Mourning's favor.
His kidney ailment that robbed him of three-plus prime seasons will be an intangible having nothing to do with sympathy. Sports halls of fame have a history of not penalizing outstanding players whose careers were cut short, usually by injury. For example, Gale Sayers made Canton despite playing only seven seasons.
BEYOND THE NBA
Consideration of Mourning also will be helped by his Olympic participation and excellent college career at Georgetown, because the basketball hall encompasses the sport at large, not just one's NBA career. Surely Zo's character and great charitable works off-court also will pull weight with voters, if subconsciously.
Mourning will be seen in the broad view as perhaps the sport's greatest defensive center since Bill Russell, and a man who put up Hall-caliber career numbers despite a late-career kidney ailment.
It will be enough, or, rather, should be.
He is making the same mistake you made by comparing #s from players of different eras. Alonzo was very good, he was never great. I have said he is a borderline candidate and that someday he may get in but the more I research it the less I think he is a HOFer.
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
nyjunc said:
Here is what he did in college: (Yeah....he wasn't a great college player... :roflmao: ......nevermind that he got drafted #2 overall):
COLLEGE:
Mourning was a three time All-Big East and All-America selection. Averaged 16.7 points and 8.6 rebounds in 120 games during his four years at Georgetown... As a senior, averaged team-highs of 21.3 points, 10.7 rebounds and 5.0 blocks and tabbed first team All-America... First player named Big East Player of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year and Big East Tournament MVP in the same season... Finalist for the prestigious James A. Naismith and John R. Wooden Awards... Second player in GU history (Patrick Ewing) to collect more than 2,000 points (2,001) and 1,000 rebounds (1,032)... Ranked second to Patrick Ewing in career blocked shots with 453 (3.78 bpg)... Finished his career as Hoyas’ all-time leader in free throws made (771) and free throws attempted (1,023)... Ranked third on school’s all-time rebounding list and fourth on alltime scoring list.
Here are his teams at Georgetown in the post season:
1988-89
Made it to the ELITE EIGHT
#2 Duke 85, #1 Georgetown 77
East Regional Final, E. Rutherford, NJ
1989-90
Lost in second round to HIGHER SEEDED TEAM.
#6 Xavier 74, #8 Georgetown 71
2nd Round Midwest Region, Indianapolis, IN
1990-91
Lost in second round to HIGHER SEEDED TEAM. (The best college team in the last 30 years...BTW)
#1 Nevada-Las Vegas 62, #8 Georgetown 54
2nd Round West Region, Tucson, AZ
1991-92
Lost in second round to HIGHER SEEDED TEAM.
#3 Florida State 78, #6 Georgetown 68
2nd Round West Region, Boise, ID
Dude...what is your problem with Mourning? Did he steal your lunch money or something? YOU KNOW NOTHING...I proved it again...you just type out of your azz....and hope that you are right....It is really useless debating such a foolish and UNknowledgeable person as yourself.....Just keep hating Zo....hope it makes you feel better....
Proven wrong again....this is becoming a trend...... :roflmao:
Section126 said:
Why were his teams seed 6th, 8th and 8th? He had great talent around him but couldn't play in the big games, he made 1 regional final but that was also the year his team almost lost to 16th seeded Princeton!
A million college players have been named to one of their all-conf teams 3 teams and done some of the other things he did. He was not a an all-time great college player, he was not Patrick Ewing. 'Zo was a very good college player but not good enough to have those years factor into a HOF decision. The man is a loser, he has been the leader of team after team that has had big time talent on it and he never made a Final Four in College and never made an NBA Finals in the NBA. That's NOT a HOFer! You either have to have incredible #s or win and he didn't have either.
By the way, that "best team in college in the last 30 years" didn't win the Nat'l Title.
Your education continues...
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
nyjunc said:
Winning championships is a team endeavor. ZO a loser? Man...arguing with you is pointless. You just refuse to admit that your'e wrong.....
BTW...are you "trying" to be wrong now? That UNLV team did win the National Championship. (just not that year...the year before)
WTF are you talking about?
Educate me? Get a brain dude.
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
BTW...I finally figured out your ZO Hate.....
It's irrational....
You are a NETS fan.....and your management was stupid to give ZO all that money when he was a sick man......
Hey....if they GAVE you all that money...would you give it back? :roflmao:
It all becomes clear now.... :wink:
It's irrational....
You are a NETS fan.....and your management was stupid to give ZO all that money when he was a sick man......
Hey....if they GAVE you all that money...would you give it back? :roflmao:
It all becomes clear now.... :wink:
He was the leader of a very talented team in college and never sniffed a FF, he was the leader of some pretty talented Heat teams in the NBA and never sniffed an NBA Finals. That's on his legacy. Other great players who are bashed for not winning titles at least carried their teams on their back to the Finals. Yeah guys like Barkely, Ewing, Stockton & Malone lost but they at least got their and lose to better teams. 'Zo's Heat lost as a 1 seed to an 8th seeded Knicks team in '99. The Heat won the Atlantic 3 straight times from '98-'00 and never even made a conf finals in those years. The ONLY Conf Final he ever played in was b/c half the Knick team was suspended in 1997.
I know they won it the year before but they didn't win it the year you brought up.
I don't like the guy, I have never hid that fact BUT I would still be fair and judge his abilities on the court objectively. If I thought he was a HOFer I'd say it but the facts are his body of work is not HOF worthy.
I never asked him to give it back but he never should have whined when he came back b/c he didn't have a problem stealing their money while he was out but when he got better he whined his way out of town. He has stoeln more money than any player in the history of the NBA.
Section126
FinHeaven VIP
Making the ELITE EIGHT IS sniffing a final four.......
Those heat teams had a nemesis in the Knicks....and when they got passed them they saw the dominant Bulls....
You are being pretty unfair to the guy....and I guess you just don't understand how much he is loved down here....The guy has been great for this community.
Those heat teams had a nemesis in the Knicks....and when they got passed them they saw the dominant Bulls....
You are being pretty unfair to the guy....and I guess you just don't understand how much he is loved down here....The guy has been great for this community.
I don't know why your arguing with this guy Nyjunc. He's obviously a Heat fan blinded by his loyalty to Zo. Zo is not a Hall of Famer. The Hall of Fame is for great/elite players, not good players. If the Hall of Fame let's Zo in there going to have to let players like Shawn Kemp and Vin Baker in!
I will agree with Painnotpleasure that if Zo stayed healthy his whole career he would no doubt be in the Hall because his longevity of being good would of gotten him in the door but because his health cut him short, whether you like it or not he's not a Hall of Famer!
If Zo gets into the Hall of Fame.....Terrell Davis deserves to be in the NFL Hall of Fame!
I will agree with Painnotpleasure that if Zo stayed healthy his whole career he would no doubt be in the Hall because his longevity of being good would of gotten him in the door but because his health cut him short, whether you like it or not he's not a Hall of Famer!
If Zo gets into the Hall of Fame.....Terrell Davis deserves to be in the NFL Hall of Fame!