Jake Long vs. Matt Ryan

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by rlurie, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. rlurie

    rlurie Well-Known Member

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    Our first game is going to be fun to watch!

    I was in the camp of wanting to draft Matt Ryan, nothing against Jake Long but when you can get a franchise QB, you take it.

    It will be interesting to watch Matt Ryan play against us and truly watch his skills. No doubt do I think Jake Long won't be a pillar at left tackle for us but it's certainly more fun to watch a franchise QB than a LT.

    Anyone else wish we would have taken Matt Ryan?
     
  2. outlawd2u

    outlawd2u Pro Bowler

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    I agree 100% but I didn't think Matt Ryan was going to be that good coming out of college and apparently Parcells and Co. didn't either. If they knew what they know now then I really don't think there's any question that Matt Ryan would be a Phin.
     
  3. GRYPHONK

    GRYPHONK Pro Bowler

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    True. But very few believed Matt Ryan to be a Franchise QB.

    The talk on this board was mostly Jake or Chris Long and Vernon Ghoulston. Very FEW in here were saying Matt Ryan to me knowldge
     
  4. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    We made the right call, if we had taken Ryan, we would not have gotten a tackle in the same zip code as Long, while in getting Long, I believe we might have gotten a QB close to as good as Ryan in Henne, but that is still to be decided, as he really didn't have a good game 3....1 & 2 looked good though.
     
  5. Swantoon

    Swantoon A True Fan

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    I am still not convinced that Ryan is a franchise QB. I'll reserve judgement till after this season.
     
  6. finner

    finner Starter

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    We made the "safe" pick. In retrospect it wasn't the "best" pick. The question wouldn't matter if Henne was looking like a real Pro QB. If Henne continues to sag it will be second guessed forever...
     
  7. The Ghost

    The Ghost Stamos

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    I am sure of one thing, Parcells, Ireland and Sparano all regret not taking Ryan.

    When you don't have a QB and you pass on a franchise QB at the top of the draft, its a mistake no matter how you draw it up. Jake Long hasn't exactly set the world on fire in the preseason. He's getting beat way to much.

    All that said, Jake is still a good player although after yesterday my opinion of Henne is shifting back towards what I thought of him at Michigan....which coming from a Buckeye fan is not good.

    Not giving up on him but sure it would be sweet to have Ryan after the fact but life doesn't work that way. I wasn't on Ryan's bandwagon so I can't even claim to be an i told you soer. I wanted Chris Long.
     
  8. Gardenhead

    Gardenhead Pro Bowler

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    I like to analogize the 2008 NFL Draft to the 1984 NBA Draft.

    In 1984, the NBA draft went like this:
    1. Hakeem Olajuwan - Houston Rockets
    2. Sam Bowie - Portland Trailblazers
    3. Michael Jordan - Chicago Bulls

    In 2008, the NFL draft went like this:
    1. Jake Long - Miami Dolphins
    2. Chris Long - St. Louis Rams
    3. Matt Ryan - Atlanta Falcons

    Do the Rockets regret not taking Michael Jordan? Of course! Do they lie awake at night, kicking themselves for passing on Jordan? Probably not. Hakeem got them 2 rings. The Rockets went with the "safe" pick and took a Center. Miami followed the same strategy.

    Of course, this analogy is flawed, cause Jordan ended up being the greatest of all time. And cause the book on Jake Long and Matt Ryan is yet to be written.

    But I think you get my point.
     
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  9. oasis

    oasis Lost in the fog

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    It's a crapshoot. I don't think too many thought Matt Ryan would be a franchise QB - those of you who were clamoring for him weren't doing so because you have some skill at talent evaluation - you just wanted the best QB in that draft.

    Many thought Alex Smith would be a franchise QB. Many thought Matt Leinart would be. Who's doing the best out of that QB first round draft class? The guy that sat in the green room for ages until Green Bay took him at 20-something - Aaron Rodgers. Sometimes you just never know - and hindsight is always 20/20.

    Spending a high pick on a franchise QB is a huuuge risk and if you miss (e.g. Alex Smith), it sets you back for years. When you're rebuilding a team, you don't take risks on a position with a high bust potential with your #1 pick. Jake Long will always be the better and smarter and right pick regardless of how good Matt Ryan becomes.
     
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  10. The Furminister

    The Furminister The Juggernaut

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    I remember people claiming that John Beck was the same if not better then Matt Ryan. I also remember the FO saying that Jake long was the Safest pick. They believed that they new what they were getting with Jake Long
     
  11. rlurie

    rlurie Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree that this can't even be looked at until years down the road but, BUT...I try to think back about who the heck was going to be our QB when we didn't have Pennington??? Were they really thinking that Beck was going to be the starter last year?

    Where would we have been last season by not getting Pennington when we could have had Matt Ryan?

    This is all premature but I'm excited to watch our first game against the Falcons just to see what it would have been like to have Ryan on our side.
     
  12. RockyMtnPhinfan

    RockyMtnPhinfan A True Fan Donator

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  13. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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  14. Canadianfishfan

    Canadianfishfan FinHeavean VIP

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    Long Vs. Ryan.. It's like apples and oranges to me. May come from the same draft but somehow I don't equate the 2.

    It's Our D Vs. Ryan, and our O line Vs. their D line. IMO anyway.
     
  15. eger

    eger Starter

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    Knowing our luck we would have selected Ryan, and Ryan would have had troubles and then people would complain that we should have taken Long.
     
  16. ArmyFin7

    ArmyFin7 U cry about the $$$, we do the dirtywork

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    It's easy to look back and 2nd qguess....but I look at it like this....take the team we had last yr, remove Long, slide Carey to LT and stick Ndukewe at RT....how much success would Ryan have had??

    Not to mention when your at stage 1 of a rebuild, the last thing you can afford to do is miss on a QB! Imagine paying Beck $50mil.....

    Truth is, we will never know how it could have played out, I am satisfied with the way it did though.
     
  17. Strangeworld

    Strangeworld Banned Hammered

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    Listen If Ryan lights us up in week one, goes on to be a perennial pro bowler, and Henne does not pan out this will go down as one of the biggest blunders in franchise history.
     
  18. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    No.
     
  19. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    [​IMG]

    It's not about Henne. He fell into our lap at 56.. he was not plan 1A... or 1B for that matter. Doesn't matter how he works out. It was and is about selecting our ProBowl LT vs. Ryan. Aside from Mayock, who's a friend of the Ryan family and a former BC player, I don't recall anyone else slurping Ryan as an obvious "franchise" QB. A highly rated one, despite his spate of interceptions, yes, but not as compelling a choice as either Long or Dorsey.

    IMO that's no different from us passing TWICE on Drew Brees, maybe one of the top 3 NFL QBs.. especially when we took Fletcher at 26 instead. The first time we just didn't know, although we should have speculated he might be a cut above average. The second time was unforgivable.

    Will Ryan turn out to be a franchise QB? No denying he's been impressive so far but only time will tell. Since White caught 40% of his passing yardage (still averaging only 1 TD a game), I'd be interested to see how well he'd do without Turner or White.. 2 offensive weapons we did not, and do not have presently. I bemoan passing up Brees twice, more than I do passing up Ryan to take the closest thing to a "sure thing" to be the linchpin in our offense. Hindsight's 20/20.
     
  20. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger A True Fan

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    I didn't want Ryan, not at #1. He fit some categories that typically align with NFL success, like number of college starts and completion percentage. But he also fell into a few categories that indicate overrated and potential bust: Premier pick who was not rated very high entering his senior year; Interceptions; Less than ideal arm strength.

    I was very surprised by his rookie year, nearly 8 YPPA, outstanding. But I'll stubbornly wait for it to replay. Maybe the subjective types who gushed over Ryan got this one right. But in the long run they'll flop repeatedly if they ignore long term foundational problems and over value the most recent season or handful of games. Parcells and Co. took the route that will pay off handsomely if they apply it position after position every year.

    Remember, the Falcons are in the same category as us, likely to regress to the mean after a huge victory uptick in 2008. I'm not conceding anything to them, or Ryan.
     
  21. rlurie

    rlurie Well-Known Member

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    I have only looked at his stats and a preseason game this year as to what type of player he is. After watching him play in a preseason game the other night though, I was VERY impressed. His arm strength, awareness and decision making was outstanding. His arm strength and accuracy is what impressed me the most though.

    My major question though is, if it wasn't for Penny, who were we going to have as our QB? Was Beck really going to be our starter last year?
     
  22. X-Pacolypse

    X-Pacolypse A True Fan

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    Sparano admitted that Henne would have been the starter.
     
  23. tay0365

    tay0365 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Well lucky for us Jake will be more beneficial to the Dolphins then the dream ever was to Houston, and Matt will never...ever....ever be in the same league as Jordan.

    We made the right call, and those that do not believe it, watch Matty Ice in year 2, and see if he melts or continues to impress.
     
  24. sharp

    sharp Scout Team

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    When you have the chance to draft a franchise Left Tackle you take it. Ryan was no different from Alex Smith that went number 1 overall. Just right place, right system, right time. The real question is franchise left tackle vs franchise qb. Not you take the first QB that the 'experts' believe is the best.
     
  25. TedSlimmJr

    TedSlimmJr Hartselle Tigers (15-0) 5-A State Champ

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    LMAO...you guys are funny...

    If you're going to take a left tackle #1 overall in the draft over the franchise quarterback....then the left tackle you select should AT LEAST be the best left tackle in the draft...Jake Long wasn't even that IMO....and thusfar...still hasn't proven to be...

    I had Matt Ryan as the best QB in the draft 7 months before the draft even occured...when all the talking heads were slurping Brian Brohm and Colt Brennan...

    There's a difference between a system quarterback and an NFL quarterback when projecting their skills to the next level....it's actually quite easy to tell the difference if you know what you're looking at...

    You don't draft a quarterback that early with the expectation of making the playoffs that season....especially when you're coming off a 1-15 season....so a 1st round exit from the playoffs with Pennington doesn't justify anything...

    You draft a franchise quarterback that early because you believe he's the guy that can lead you for the next decade....and you build around him...

    I've never clamored for the Dolphins to take a quarterback like I did for them to select Matt Ryan....I tried (fruitlessly) so hard to get the point across that it would be a big mistake to pass up on THIS quarterback....

    ...not because he was a quarterback and Miami needed one.....but because he was the quarterback Miami had been waiting for....and he was right there...for the taking....they worked him out...they went to his pro day....

    Essentially, all they had to do was turn the card in with his name on it...

    They didn't....

    Now, you all get to witness first hand what Miami could've had under center come Sept. 13th.....
     
  26. Gardenhead

    Gardenhead Pro Bowler

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    Oh please...the truth is that there was NO CONSENSUS that Matt Ryan would be great (by the way, the jury is still out, even though he looks like the real deal). Plenty of experts thought he was not worth the top pick. So some guy on some message board was clamoring for him. Clap, clap, clap. You were right and Bill Parcells was wrong. Now you can tell all your friends how smart you are. Happy now?

    I will agree with you on one thing: Ryan Clady is better than Jake Long. Its a dirty little secret that no one wants to admit. But its true.
     
  27. VA_Finfan

    VA_Finfan A True Fan

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    i believe we made the right pick because who knows what would have happened? with long as a tackle our running game is straight up nasty, wildcat may never have been developed, so looking back, i think that our pick was the right one
     
  28. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Well I was definately saying Ryan was a top level prospect not that I am always right. People were talking smack because I had Ryan in my sig.
     
  29. Buff

    Buff From a galaxy far far away.... Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Long keep the QB safe - remember Chad did have a GREAT year last year, no injuries etc, and that can be directly linked to Longs presence on the line.

    If we had taken Ryan, I think.....in fact I am sure, he would have lasted maybe 5 or 6 games & possibly been out injured. No disrespect to Ryan, he is obviously something special, but Long was who & what we needed, and the results are division champs, best turn around in league history. Thats a nice start for two new comers to the organisation.

    Choice...Chad & Jake or Matt & ???

    Easy. Chad & Jake.
     
  30. GoonBoss

    GoonBoss Finheaven Templar Super Donator Donator

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    Thank god. It's about time somone compared the Ryan and Long picks. Kudos to you sir.
     
  31. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Atlanta chose Ryan over a LT and he lasted all season so that theory is flawed and a real unknown.
     
  32. BARF

    BARF ...FOR ME TO POOP ON

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    if we would have drafted ryan he would have been on the ground most of the time, not saying that the falcons have a better o line, but they have been playing together longer than ours, oh and lets not forget the signed michael turner, and have roddy white, who both had pro bowl years.

    the way our team was in shambles we needed to start from the o line, and then put a qb
     
  33. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Atlanta was just as horrid the year before as us. In fact most on here predicted Ryan would have a horrible year and Atlanta was going to be awful.
    People on this board were laughing about how stupid Atlanta was for taking Ryan so high and now all of a sudden he had this great team around him.
     
  34. Birdbrain

    Birdbrain Member

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    We only took Ryan because you took Long.Almost took Dorsey over him.Funny the way things work out sometimes.
     
  35. 3rdandinches

    3rdandinches Seasoned Veteran

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    That's by far the best quote of the year, lol !!!!! Apparently you have the secret to drafting a QB that no FO in the NFL has. Your gonna be a rich man, to think BP doesn't know what he's looking at, awesome line.
     
  36. PATSSUCK

    PATSSUCK Banned Hammered

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    Yea, its not like Ryan had a rb, who had an amazing year or a top 10 wr... oh wait a minute. Lol@ Ryan lovers.
     
  37. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Formerly Fiedler for MVP

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    This again?

    Wait, what happened to all the Brady Quinn threads?
     
  38. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    That's revisionist history. Factually, they won 4 games to our 1. What confuses you about that statistic? Even with the QB and HC distractions, they won the same number of games the Jets did, and they didn't have the benefit of playing us twice. Did you predict the Jets would be as "horrid" in 08?

    They already had a 1000 yd receiver being thrown to by the likes of Redman. Leftwich and Harrington. They signed a RB who averaged 6.3 yds the previous season.. Statistically they were 400% better on the eve of he 08 season, but in reality, they had even more going for them than that compared to the Fins. When you have a receiver who caught 40% of your pass yardage and a RB responsible for gaining 70% of all your team's rushing yardage, you as a QB, even if you only average 1 TD pass a game (16 total), are very likely to end up basking in the glory of your 2 stud players.


    Arthur Blank needed a new face of the Falcons, desperately and quickly. The selection of Ryan as the #3 pick had more to do with PR than it did with functionality IMO. It was a gamble that obviously worked out very well in all regards, but a gamble nonetheless taking a highly rated college QB who few considered a lock as a "franchise" one. But that's a parable of life: bigger risks yield bigger rewards (or losses).
     
  39. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    Turner was a backup runningback so noone knew he would be that good and White had put up one good season out of 3. Nobody considered either White or Turner a stud coming into the season. You do realize that Jerico Cothery put up similar numbers in 2007 to White. Im sure nobody would say that a qb with Jercio Cothery came in with a certain stud wr or with Darren Sproles as his new rb. Bobby Engram put up better numbers than White the previous year and like I said noone would say well he had a stud wr in place if he had him. Matt Ryan was every bit as responsinble for Atlanta's success as anybody else on the offense.

    Dminitoff thier gm has pretty good credentials as a talent evaluator I doubt they wasted a high draft pick just for publicity. Oh I forgot no other team in the league has a clue what they are doing except our team. Im pretty sure he did the same homework our people did and it paid off for them. We continually can never give credit to any other teams and players.
    \\
     
  40. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Turner was a "back up" to LT averaging over 6 yds/carry in 07 and 5yds/carry in 06. Sorry, but you don't throw $35mil with $15mil guaranteed for a run of the mill "backup" RB. (Dimitroff did his homework on Ryan but not Turner, LOL) No matter how you spin it. Roddy White was a flat-out stud. Your stats are misleading: he played in 5 games in 06 with 500 yds of receptions, and in his 1st year he played in 8 games and had 450 yds of receptions. He's never averaged less than 14.5 yds/catch. He's been a stud from the get-go. Sorry, you can spin Ryan's glories anyway you want but he gets more credit than deserved considering the tools he had to work with. For both him and the Falcons, it turned out to be the "Perfect Storm." They were both lucky to some extent.
     

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