James Walker (ESPN) thinks Miami has a QB controversy

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by number1fin, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. number1fin

    number1fin #onephin Donator

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    http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/44382/pre-camp-grades-dolphins

    Funny thing is he later contradicts himself by stating the QB's aren't sniping at each other and it hasn't divided the locker.

    Where do they find these guys???

    Amongst other things he thinks the defense is overrated, questions Coach Philbin's game management skills, and doesn't think the offense can score enough points. Also imaginary and irrelevant grades are given.

    One of the few positives he pointed out was that we have a good locker room due to our decent finish last season.

    I guess what I'm wondering is could this clown be even remotely right? Is their a controversy brewing in South Florida?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2012
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    1. The Dolphins do have a QB controversy
    2. It IS nice that in this case the QBs are getting along well and not sniping at one another
    3. It IS appropriate to question Philbin's game management as a rookie coach that never called plays, until he shows he has the skills
    4. The offense probably will not score enough points
    5. The 6-3 finish does fuel confidence in the locker room that they can win even if our QB is mediocre
    6. Something negative I would add that James Walker didn't, is that Miami's RBs unit is weaker for this system than people think
     
  3. DaLionsden189

    DaLionsden189 Well-Known Member

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    I like the points but i do disagree with #6, i think reggie bush and lamar miller will succeed in this new scheme and i have a hard time seeing where daniel thomas will fit except for a short down back and endzone back
     
  4. TGall13

    TGall13 Tagalager

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    (1) Not sure I'd call it a 'controversy' yet. No one's been named, so can't truely be a controversy. It's actually more of a competition, which is odd to say for this team
    (2) Yes, it is nice...but who really knows.
    (3) Totally agree, but from what I've read about Philbin, I have confidence in his abilities.
    (4) I'm optimistic we can score enough points, that remains to be seen.
    (5) Momentum can be a huge factor in how we come out the gate. I think there may be some valid points about our defense. Can they be good when it really counts?
    (6) I somewhat disagree with you on this one. I think Bush fits the bill well for this offense...especially from a flexiblity standpoint. We'll see how our rookie does, but I think where we lack some, to your point, is depth. Even though there is a backlog at RB, are they well suited enough for this type of offense? A lot of unknowns at this stage for sure.
     
  5. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    We shall see.....
     
  6. Pat-London

    Pat-London A True Fan

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    I'd love for you to expand on this. There are certainly a bunch of ifs'.. can Bush repeat, can Thomas stay healthy, can Miller show he's fully healthy and stick his head in at the pro level, can Messam be that big back?... but...I see talent and depth..

    Ta.
     
  7. NYPhin24

    NYPhin24 Scout Team

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    #5 Momentum to end a season can sometimes carry over depending on the situation, like the Lions when they embarassed Miami at home 2 seasons ago and i beleive they had won their last 5 games to end the season and we saw what they did last year, given there were multiple factors including Stafford but winning your last 3 games vs losing them to end a season can make a difference major or minor
     
  8. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Phlbin wasn't going to be calling plays here either
     
    number1fin likes this.
  9. Roman529

    Roman529 Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew

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    What is wrong with having a QB controversy? It is not like the THREE quarterbacks we have are pro bowl caliber QB's, so may the best man win. I think this is a good thing.
     
  10. number1fin

    number1fin #onephin Donator

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  11. rent this space

    rent this space Starter Finheaven VIP

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  12. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    well if philbin only "wastes" one timeout a half, then he's already 400% better than sparano as far as timeout management goes.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Lamar Miller is a rookie that needs a lot of weight room development, and he's currently buried on the depth chart behind Reggie Bush and Daniel Thomas. I would be more inclined to agree with you if I thought this coaching staff would be quick to give up on Daniel Thomas and put Lamar Miller out there to run the ball in the same situations last year's coaches normally would've put Daniel in, but I don't think they will. I think they will keep on with Daniel Thomas until he's well proven his inadequacy. Or maybe he'll succeed and I'm wrong. Also possible. But either way I think Lamar right now in their minds is a very limited use weapon, and he'll have to scratch and claw for more than that. Therefore, it's not appropriate in my opinion to make him a big consideration in the evaluation of this tailback unit. Even if they do start using him more, it'll be half the year before that happens, then you'll only have Miller running for half the year, and he could run into the rookie wall at some point as well.
     
  14. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    well some maintain reggie bush's season last year was an anomoly, so that being the case lamar should see the field a good deal this year.
     
  15. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Seasoned Veteran

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    We may be playing with house money on Reggie at this point, so to rely on him... may be a mistake. He really wasn't doing much in the beginning of the season. I expect Daniel Thomas to take over, to be quite honest. I just like his running style so much more. He reminds me of James Starks
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    They go hand-in-hand. You have a returning starter that is now being forced to compete on an even basis with a new guy. That's the definition of a QB controversy. Brian Hartline just got done saying outright on radio that Matt Moore is "his guy" because he's proven, yet I know there are players in that locker room quietly telling reporters off the record that David Garrard seems ot be winning the competition.

    We'll see. I certainly don't ever think of Reggie Bush as a fit for this kind of zone-based system. I'll give the man his props for running the ball better than I thought he would in Miami's 2011 man and iso based ground scheme. If we were continuing with that scheme, I'd have no choice but to say Miami has a strong RB unit led by a guy that gained 5.0 yards per carry a year ago and can be a dynamic pass catching threat. But we're switching schemes, switching systems, and I don't know that Reggie is a natural fit in this system. On the other hand, Daniel Thomas is better suited for this system than he was the last system, yet he remains totally unproven that he's even worthy of an NFL roster designation because that's how bad he was last year. Lamar Miller is a rookie that needs a lot of weight room work. Steve Slaton hasn't been a successful ball carrier in years. Jonas Gray will probably start the year on the PUP list, if not the practice squad, and Jerome Messam is a CFL crossover.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    You're correct. What I was implying when I said he's never called plays before is that calling plays can give you a feel for game management, making certain calls when put on the spot, dealing with various time constraints, etc. He won't be calling plays as a head coach but he will be making certain calls and dictating certain things during the game. He'll be forced to make some decisions that he might not have a lot of experience making...whereas if he were the play caller he may have some experience to draw on.
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    There's just a general school of thought that when you're entering a season with a QB competition in store, you're probably not going to be very good. It's certainly not true all of the time. But it is probably true most of the time. I think that's all James Walker was getting at.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Not necessarily. Same thing applies. Reggie Bush proved enough last year that even if he were to struggle, they would probably stick with him for quite a bit of time before finally turning to the rookie.

    I think if you're evaluating Miami's tailbacks then right now you have to primarily be focused on Reggie Bush and Daniel Thomas. In the future, that's when your other guys like Miller, Messam and Gray can enter the frame. But that's just my opinion.
     
  20. number1fin

    number1fin #onephin Donator

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    As if that's a good thing!

    James Starks Career Stats:

    ATT - 162
    YDS - 679
    TD's - 1

    The guy has more fumbles (2) than touchdowns.
     
  21. ANUFan

    ANUFan A True Fan Donator

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    Oh, Ck! They are itching to turn against you! How dare you agree with Walker!:lol:
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Is that a good thing? ;)
     
  23. Finland

    Finland Pro Bowler

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    I was happy to see your response, because I think all the points for the most part have validity. Far to often at Finheaven people bash negative reporters and praise positive reporters. We have new management and a new system just to start the conversation and in almost any other circumstance reporters would be correct to not get to excited in such situations. so then add in, new receivers, possible different starting QB, changed Oline, hard division, etc and why would someone lay money on the dolphins. Hopefully they kick a$$ but for now, thanks for your post.
     
  24. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Far too often people try to circumvent the profanity filter where there is no need to do so. You can say *** without using a$$.
     
  25. number1fin

    number1fin #onephin Donator

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    Just the nature of the beast!

    Positive reporters are greeted friendly, whereas negative reporters are seen as the enemy.

    Can trust neither! Discern on your own.
     
  26. LobsterMobster

    LobsterMobster Scout Team

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    How come every time a team has a quarterback competition, it's labeled a "controversy"? People should look up the definition of the word.
     
  27. TGall13

    TGall13 Tagalager

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    I get what you're saying, but I always felt that a "controversy" was more of a difference of opinion on who should be starting....since we don't have a starter yet, i don't see how there could be a 'controversy'. Either way, we still don't know who will be our QB going in to the season.

    I also get what you're saying about the runningback situation. For me, to a fault, I always look at the guys we have and have a 'hopeful' prediction of what I'd like for them to do vs. the reality of what's really there. I also maybe giving too much credit to our new coaching staff based on their history. I'm just looking through my Fin goggles and, from what i see, the future looks pretty good.
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I think right now most Dolphins fans would account the tailbacks unit as one of the strengths of the team, thinking that the Dolphins' ground attack will be good and the only question is the passing attack.

    I am just saying that I am not as sure of that as most are, because of a number of factors:

    For one thing, Reggie Bush had a nice average last year but it was pretty much unprecedented rushing success for him. You get afraid, rightly or wrongly, that he's sort of a one-year wonder. I don't think you breathe the sigh of relief until the player follows that success up with more success.

    For another, even taking that aside, we're talking about a multiple-cut/open-field runner moving to a one-cut zone system. I think it's OK to have some question marks about how well he's going to make that transition. Better, more established tailbacks than Reggie Bush have ended up overtaken in that system by total unknowns whose rhythm, vision and style just jives better with the zone system.

    Third, you have the Daniel Thomas conundrum. Really pretty awful in 2011, one of the worst rookie tailbacks in the league. He dealt with some hamstring injuries, but I don't think those had as large effect as some (including him) would HOPE is true. He's moving to a system that benefits him more, which is good news. But is he cut out for the NFL period? I'm not sure I see the vision or the ability to consistently create yards after contact.

    Finally, there's the blocking. I know we're trying to talk about the tailbacks but inevitably the success or failure of the blockers will bleed into the evaluation of the tailbacks. The Dolphins are moving to a new system and the players are still trying to get chemistry with one another in that system. Is it going to come together right away? Is that realistic?
     
  29. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    sensationalism sells and gets attention on messageboards.
     
  30. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Let's all do a little definitive English;

    Con·tro·ver·sy
    (k[​IMG]n[​IMG]tr[​IMG]-vûr[​IMG]s[​IMG]) n. pl. con·tro·ver·sies 1. A dispute, especially a public one, between sides holding opposing views. See Synonyms at argument.
    2. The act or practice of engaging in such disputes:

    After we all know the definition of controversy I am wondering can anyone tell me right now at this moment who the starting QB is for the Miami Dolphins? Anyone? Last I knew this word was the better word in this situation as a descriptor:

    Com·pe·ti·tion (k[​IMG]m[​IMG]p[​IMG]-t[​IMG]sh[​IMG][​IMG]n) n. 1. The act of competing, as for profit or a prize; rivalry.
    2. A test of skill or ability; a contest: a skating competition.
    3. Rivalry between two or more businesses striving for the same customer or market.
    4. A competitor: The competition has cornered the market.
    5. Ecology The simultaneous demand by two or more organisms for limited environmental resources, such as nutrients, living space, or light.

    But I guess QB Competition doesn't have the pazze of QB Controversy although in order to have a controversy you first have a dispute, in order to have a dispute you need to have a disagreement, with disagreement comes lack of consensus and a consensus is a general agreement on a subject.

    So again, on the subject of starting Miami QB what was the general agreement because I must have missed it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2012
  31. Wildbill3

    Wildbill3 Misery Loves Company Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    I don't think i'd agree that he was one of the worst rookie running backs last season.
     
  32. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Seasoned Veteran

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    Hahaha I meant Ryan Grant! You guys got me. Dammit. Brain Fart :)
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    It's a matter of opinion, really. To me, when you've got a returning starter but also a new guy(s) who doesn't have the resume to be handed the job outright, but is instead competing, you've got a QB controversy. As I said, there are already sides setting up on either side of this. You've got Hartline in the bag for Moore and others (count OchoCinco among them) rooting for Garrard. I think that qualifies. If it doesn't qualify, I'm not sure what does. Or rather, I'm not sure how many situations there have really been in NFL history that do qualify.
     
  34. number1fin

    number1fin #onephin Donator

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    It may be wishful thinking, but we might can catch lightning in a bottle.
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I don't know who he reminds me of but I just know at that posititon it's all about how much you can create on your own with your vision, your ability to cut at speed, your balance and ability to do things after contact, etc. For me, he just doesn't do enough of that. I didn't see enough of it in college and I saw very little of it as a pro.

    Great example, re-watch the Houston game from 2011. Big game for him. He had a run in there, think it was his biggest run of the day, looked great on paper. A nice 14 or 15 yard gain that increased his average a bit. But, dissect the run. He runs to the play side, where the play is supposed to go, and the OL had paved an 8-lane highway. You could have driven a Mack truck through that hole and gone untouched. Daniel busts into the 2nd level and runs straight for the point where both safeties are going to converage on him, runs straight into them and is tackled with MAYBE 1 yard after contact. No angling, no cuts, no creativity, no running to daylight...just straight ahead and see what I can get after contact...except I only get 1 yard because I'm an upright runner without special balance.

    He had some GOOD runs in 2011, and some good catches as well. But being a running back is all about doing that often enough to average well, and he didn't have enough good plays. He just didn't. Not even enough of the sneaky good plays, like the catch he had in the second Jets game that went down on paper as a nothing little catch for 8 yards, but involved a good amount of impressive work to get those 8 yards and move the sticks. Watch everything he did in 2011 closely, as I have, and he didn't do that kind of thing near enough to think of him as an NFL starter at that position. I need to see that kind of ability on most plays, not just every now and then.
     
  36. number1fin

    number1fin #onephin Donator

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    Are you human ckparrothead?
     
  37. Fin Thirteen

    Fin Thirteen FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    I don't see the slightest bit of QB controversy.

    Moore is not a WCO QB. Devlin probably won't make it. So they got Garrard in for just a year to bed the WCO in and give Moore plus whoever they draft (lo and behold Shermans WCO QB) a while to adapt to an NFL WCO.

    If Garrard starts, it means Moore and RT need more time to get in the flow. Plus there's everyone else in the system to bed in. As soon as either Moore or RT are ready, which could be Game 1, Garrard will step aside and - barring a failure by either of the other 2 to get it - he's gone in the spring.

    If it clicks for Moore, he's in. Garrard will go straight to QB3 slot, IMO. His job as insurance policy and mentor is done.

    I don't see a controversy, or a mess, or a straight 3-way battle. I see a plan. Would take a lot to convince me otherwise.
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Nope. As the name implies, I'm avian.
     
  39. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Seasoned Veteran

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    I'm convinced he's some type of well spoken football robot.

    edit: CK, I base my judgment on his ability to keep his feet moving. I'm going off ONE play, but I believe it was a screen pass or a dump off where he seemed to break through tackles for an 11-12 yard gain. I saw a flash of what I thought was a VERY shifty power back.

    But then I saw plays where he wasn't much of a power back AT ALL. You know running backs WAY beyond what I even know what to look for, so I'll defer to you on this, but I'm clouding my judgment with a single play, and a lot of hope. Or is it mental gymnastics? Who knows.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    The potential is there but for that position I believe it's about more than potential. You have to actually do it. You have to make guys miss, show the vision and the balance and the agility on a play to play basis...and for me he doesn't do that.

    I also think he lumbers a bit when trying to make cuts, putting himself off balance...and that strikes me as an ability problem.

    ---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

    Which rookies were worse, and why?
     

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