Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Nawledge, Sep 27, 2011.
Not only has Jason Taylor lost a step in his old age..He has also lost his mind..
I agree. But Sanchez can put the team on his back, and Henne cannot. When the pressures on, he folds.
Talent? yes he has talent, franchise qb? no and he proved that again on sunday when he could not put together a winning drive when it was perfectly set up for him to do so, all he needed was 15yds with 43 seconds left and a t.o. on the 50yd line and he couldn't do it, henne has a strong arm, improved presence, decent mobility, great size, but all that does not add up to a franchise qb who is "special" and can take a franchise on his back, sunday was a perfect opportunity to prove that he has arrived and show this franchise some hope and he could not do it, I'm sorry but I'm just not buying into henne.
I really do like Jason Taylor it semms like every time he comes back we screw up i swear to god the man is a curse.
Correct. Don't be surprised if Henne has the better completion percentage and total yards stats at the end of the season, but Sanchez is good at getting fired up when it counts. Even in last week's loss to the Raiders, Sanchez was making big plays when the game looked lost. We need Henne to show us if he can carry the team to victory when it counts. To date he has consistently failed in that pursuit. Hopefully he improves.
Raw talent? measurables? he may be right but playing this position is about much more than raw talent.
Yeah like getting saved by special teams and having db's drop all your bad passes
henne is 12th in total qbr. sanchez is 27th.
Well yea when you take 6 sacks a game instead of throwing the ball away it does not effect your qb rating...
Sanchez and his team are 2 and 1.
Dolphins are 0 and 3...
Qb play is about winning, First and foremost..
I dont care what the stats are.
maybe if chad's team blocked some punts or got game winning interceptions, people would think of him differently.
so yr saying marino never won a ring, so eli manning is better?
That's good and great, but Henne is also one of the worst in the league in the redzone, 3rd downs,and final drives. I don't think either QB is franchise material, but I'd rather have the guy that can convert when it matters.
I'm not going to say Henne is better than Sanchez because they don't have the same player, scheme, etc. so it is kinda hard to argue. On thing for sure Mark doesn't look like he is improving to me (at least not so far this season).
As far as sunday goes...
Please forgive me if I'm wrong, because I only saw "highlights" of the final drive...I thought the biggest problem with that last drive was that while we only needed to get about 15 yards, the pass plays that were called were (with 36 seconds and 1 TO) medium range sideline passes, all to the left. I remember when the pats and chargers played week 2, brady threw 3 5 yard passes to branch on the sideline where he just took 3 steps and went out of bounds. only used up like 10-12 seconds, got the 15 or so yards needed, FG, end of half. How about a draw play out of the shogun??? they did have a time out. Nope, lets run 3 passes to the same side, then go to marshel (they didn't see that coming) running across the middle of the field through traffic.
Sorry guys, I know Henne has his problems (how is it we are the only team out of 32 that doesn't have a "franchise" QB this year, when every other team does),... but if you send garbage plays into the huddle, you pretty much get garbage results.
im not saying stats are everything. but they should be in the discussion.
and the stats say chad is better than mark. (as well as jason taylor lol)
If they had equal win totals then yes..but Mark has won so many more games than Chad that stats dont matter to me.. If they were running backs then yes. If the Jets were winning games in spite of Mark Sanchez then I think it would be worth a look. But Mark is winning them games and also he manages them better than Chad does..You dont go to the AFC championship game without having more talent that a guy who goes 7 and 9 every year..
I totally agree. Although Nolan last year turned this D around, he did same while in Denver and nose-dived thereafter.
Whatever you say about the Rex Ryan, if he were here rather than in NY, we would be the ones 11-5 / 10-6 every year!
so eli is better than marino forwinning a ring?
Both QB's will be irrelevant in the NFL within 4 years. Neither are good enough to warrant debate against each other. Period.
yr argument would make more sense if qb's also played linebacker.
Nope. Marino carried his dolphins teams. Eli did not. If henne carried his team and so did Sanchez then absolutely you go to the stats. But when the resume is not even close then no need to check the stats. Like I said the jets are not winning in spite of Sanchez. The guy is super clutch. Marino is better than alot of players that won super bowls. That's my opinion of course. It can be argued that Marino never won a super bowl because of ego. He wanted to throw the ball as much as he could to win games.
yea sanchez blocked that punt, hes so clutch!
Sanchez blows, this isn't saying much.
I said the same thing as Taylor a few weeks ago. I believe I even said it to you. There's no question Henne is more talented than Sanchez. He just happens to be on a much better team with a competent coach and he s been the luckiest QB in terms of dropped int and his teammates bailing him out. Sanchez is a bottom portion of the league starter. This isn't news to anyone who isn't a Jets homer.
And henne doesnt play defense either!
It's obvious that Chad is a better QB physically than Sanchez, but somehow Sanchez gets those wins. Sanchez has a better team and a way better coach around him. That makes all the difference. I'd still take Fitzpatrick over both of them.
by the way, total qbr makes account for the clutch plays.
and i think last year, when down by a touchdown in the 4th qtr, sanchez's passer rating was in the 50s. but of course stats dont matter in sports.
i agree. BUT, look how much time fitzpatrick has had to grow. he was drafted in 05 and this is pretty much his first good year.
who knows how much better chad would be in his 6th year
If Miami's d didnt play as well as they did last year we may have been worse than 7 and 9...
Its not like Miami's d and speical teams has been void of big plays..Hell Ted Ginn and Jason Taylor almost won the Jets game a few years back.
Really you never know? But how long can a franchise wait for a qb to become good?
I think Henne could bounce around the league a few years and then maybe become a starter somewhere else..But if this regime is gone next year I dont see how Henne is back.
which tells us all we need to know about total QBR. Henne had great FP needing to get in FG range w/ plenty of time Sunday and he threw 3 incompletions and an INT yet still had a good total QBR. It's a joke just like regular rating is.
Sanchez has a high comp %, has thrown more TDs, his yds per attempt is higher, he has thrown for more yards and he is leading his offense to more points- tell me again about these stats that say Henne is better?
Again physical talent is only part of it. henne lacks the mental part of the game, the leadership and the abilityt to make good decisions under pressure. Switch the QBs and Miami wins more hwile we win less.
Stats don't matter, Mark led us to 4-5 4th qtr comebacks a year ago. That means more than a silly rating if those #s are true.
Henne's play in the 4th quarter over his years in Miami has been god awful. God awful. Henne is good between the 20's he can get you down in the redzone. He will even throw a TD or two but he is not getting into enough to win games period...I will give you the Pats game..We kicked one fg and had a tough goal line stand..(Granted Henne threw a **** rock on 4th and goal) But Henne was a big reason that Miami didnt win the Texans game..Sure you expect carp to make those Fg's but too often is he attempting them. The Browns game as well..
So now we are adding conditional flyers to your statement that stats don't matter. If the sky is blue, then stats matter. But if the grass is green, then stats don't matter.
Hey man sometimes ppl speak in absolutes when they are typing on a messege board. But its like in Baseball when a pitcher does not get win's does that mean he is not a good pitcher? The guy could have a 2.00 Era but if he is not getting run support he loses games. If he does not make it to a certain inning its a no descision.
Look I am not saying that Henne is the worst Qb ever..Cause he is not. Things happen throughout a game that effect the whole game. But were not winning right now and the qb touches the ball every down. Something has gotta give.
The discussion was on Better QB, not better team or winning.
Statistically, Henne is a better QB than Sanchez.
If you wanna go with wins, I guess Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Marino since Dilfer has a ring.
See what I did there?
its crazy how different everything would be if marshall didnt drop those 2 td passes
I wouldn't consider throwing a slant and having the WR do all the work on his way for a 50+ yard TD "leading" the team to a comeback. Either way, still better than Henne, who can't even lead his team 10-15 yards for a FG attempt...
I disagree.. I believe Sanchez is given the opportunity to gunsling and be more dramatic. Henne has been over coached to become this robot. This 'system' guy. What he'd be if he was just told to go out and ball.
Mindset, a looser leash, and coaching does a lot to a QBs development.
Oh god not this again... I actually think Marino has more wins than Dilfer.
Dilfer made some plays leading up to the Super Bowl..Dan Marino he was not..
Yes I agree, those should have been caught..But how many catchable balls has Henne thrown in the redzone the last 2 games?
Glad someone else notices that
"wins dont matter, superbowls matter" -cliche'd sportsfan
I agree. Sanchez has been able to let it all hang out at times..Henne has had limits on him, but even now when he controls the whole offense..Is he balling out?
Its funny that you think if you win the QB is good and if you loss the QB is bad. Have you ever thought that there are more people on a team than a QB? The QB could be the best in the league but if the WRE drops the ball it is an incompletion and if the WR tip the ball to a defender it is an INT. None of those was the fault to the QB. If the Defense lets the other team score 40 is that the QB's fault? If the Oline lets everyone through and dont give the QB time, is that his fault?
I get it the Jets are winning because of Sanchez and the Dolphins are losing because of Henne.
Well he threw for 400 yards against the pats
Winning does matter.....Look at what the Colts with Manning, look at them now without him..Total wreck..Quarterbacks matter more to different teams..Marino mattered more to the Dolphins. Trent Dilfer didnt matter as much but he was the right qb for that situation..Joe Namath for the Jets was another good example..Joe Namath's stats look awful on paper but he was able to win a super bowl because for that run he was able to check his ego. Bob Griese too..I mean all the guy had to do was hand the ball off and not make a dumb play.. Henne does not have that luxury.. Marino never won a super bowl but that does not erase all the accomplisments he had..all the pro bowls and all the points he was able to put up.
Yards are over rated.
Take a look in the mirror. You sarcastically say The Jets win because of Sanchez and the Dolphins lose because of Henne. Newsflash for you, Sanchez converts 3rd downs, Henne doesn't. Sanchez puts 6 points on the board instead of 3 in the redzone. And Sanchez doesn't lose games on the final drive like Henne. Sanchez is contributing more to his team than Henne, that's for sure.
lol. at least yr consistent.
do these henne arguments happen alot? im pretty new to this forum. but i get into these everyday irl
Didnt you just say that you cant take anything away from Dan because he didnt win a super bowl? You cant take away his yards and TD's. When it comes to Henne all the numbers are over rated but not with Marino.
The truth is the Jets are winning because of thier Defense not Sanchez and the Dolphins are losing because of our Defense not because of Henne. What are we ranked in offense? What are we ranked in Defense? My point proven.