Jeff's CFL "fool's gold" free agents

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by rev kev, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    If you were in Canada while Wake was tearing it up you will have to admit Wake was a no-brainer find (IT WAS UNUSUAL TO SEE THIS CALIBRE OF DEFENDER IN THE CFL)

    Even Brandon Browner a very good CFL all star at the time was not being considered for MVP status like Wake

    So for the love of the game JEFF - WORK ON THE DRAFT! - these spotty CFLers are a waste of time!!!!

    Stop churning the bottom 5 players when the top 40 could all see upgrades (many are average at best)

    Should we complie a list of Jeff's CFL "fool's gold" free agents? While the draft's sailed by Jeff Ireland and MIA scouts - the "real" gold sailed by?

    I mean congrats on Thigpen but seriously the latter rounds of the draft sailed right by you dude - some would argue the first day of the draft sailed by you the past 2 years - after Pouncey and Tannehill you got roasted

    I am not a proponent or hater just not liking the waste of time direction - the CFL is generally a dead end to build a team of play-makers on both side of the ball
     
  2. uk_dolfan

    uk_dolfan Founder of the FH Adam Gase fan club Moderator Finheaven VIP

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    :rolleyes:

    It isnt the draft or free agency or the CFL by looking at all 3 he is doing his job. Do you think its Ireland who personally evaluates every player?
     
  3. Hayden Fox

    Hayden Fox Love Creating Turnovers Donator

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    Who cares? The CFL has a few players to discover. Good for him.
     
  4. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    I think as the nfl continues to go no huddle, spread, passing offense it only makes sense to look at guys from the CFL. Really at this time of year it hurts nothing, bowl games are pretty much over except the BCS Championship and I am pretty sure those rosters have been well scouted. I am the biggest Ireland basher and even I have no problem looking at CFL guys right now
     
  5. phintim

    phintim Seasoned Veteran

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    Wow another fan who buys into the socialist approach let's just blame one guy for everything. There is Jones FS, Clemons, Hartline WR, Bess WR, Martin OL, Smith CB, Carrol, Miller RB, Mathews WR, Jones TE, Jerry OL, Vernon DE, MSI LB, DT RB, Lane K and Carp K. These are just some of your drafted and undrafted college players that Ireland has acquired primairilynin the past 3 years that played then majority of the snaps this year that were NOT chosen in the first round.
     
  6. andyahs

    andyahs Bahamian Redneck Donator

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    The draft is a ways off what do you want him to do hibernate until then. He is doing what every other GM in the league is doing............his job.
     
  7. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit A True Fan

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    Let the squirrel play with his acorns.
     
  8. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Begs the question: Is Buttchez good enough to at least carry a clipboard in the CFL?
     
  9. daniel3

    daniel3 Starter

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    Damn, some people will cry about anything. Jeff could be stopping on the street to tie his shoelaces and someone would make a thread about why he isn't out looking for players and not sitting there tying his shoe laces.
     
  10. J Tes

    J Tes next generation

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    Are we still crying over the CFL players Miami has worked out recently? Based on your post you would think Ireland signed them and then promised them starting jobs. To my knowledge, he's done neither. You act as if this isn't happening all the time by every team in the NFL. This is common practice. Enough with the ignorant Acorn cracks and whining about CFL tryouts. You're trying so hard to make something out of nothing. You're embarrassing yourself
     
  11. Sirspud

    Sirspud Pro Bowler

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    When you've got a number of guys in camp not really pegged to make the team you are going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel whether it comes to guys being UDFA, CFL, or arena guys. No coach signs CFL guys expecting them to all be Cameron Wake, just like they don't sign UDFA expecting them to all turn into Davone Bess or Tony Romo. But you do that anyway because you aren't going to be able to sign 80 big names for your camp roster so you take a chance on guys knowing that you will probably end up cutting them with virtually no penalty.
     
  12. $$BWCJR78$$

    $$BWCJR78$$ Dolphins 4-Life Donator

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    I like giving UDFA and CFL guys a look at, a lot of times they have a chip on their shoulders and something to prove....
     
  13. damanref10

    damanref10 Little Lebowski Urban Achiever

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    I hate Jeff just as much as anyone, but this is just hogwash. The guy should be doing everything he can to find talent that can make this team better, i dont care if its the CFL or peewee football. Bring in as many bodies as you can to get a good first hand look at them, there is nothing detrimental about doing that.
     
  14. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    I have no problem with scouring Canada, as long as we doing whatever to improve team. Not alot of talent in CFL but there is talent. Wake is a rarity so people expecting those kind of results will be bitterly dissapointed too often but im ok with kicking every rock
     
  15. kizzaboo

    kizzaboo Seasoned Veteran

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    So what do you find more likely Rev? That the Dolphins are the only team that scouts the CFL or that EVERY NFL team scouts the CFL?
     
  16. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    every team does and many teams were looking at Wake. No team thought he would be this good even us, reflected by the contract we initially gave him. We did recognize the potential and outbid everybody else
     
  17. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Owner of the Palace of Wisdom Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Wake decided on us over the Colts, Vikings, Bills, Saints, and Rams and received interest from 17 teams total. We also got Marcus Thigpen from the CFL.
     
  18. kizzaboo

    kizzaboo Seasoned Veteran

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    I was asking the question not because I didnt know the real answer, but to see if Rev knows. I for one dont think he does. Thanks anyway
     
  19. ChrisJNelson

    ChrisJNelson Phins-Spotlight.com

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    I don't know why everyone freaks out about workouts and looking at CFL guys. Every NFL team has scouts dedicated to these areas. Miami is not wasting any resources with this and it's not preventing them from paying attention to the draft, free agency, etc. Get over it, people. This is how you do your job.
     
  20. Anvil35

    Anvil35 Leave Users Titles Alone!! Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Hey Ireland - Find talent wherever you can! Obviously, the OP has no idea what he is talking about...
     
  21. Bobby Humphrey

    Bobby Humphrey I got cut Donator

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    Our best D player (Team MVP) and our best ST player come out of the CFL ....... and someone is upset that we are looking at a few more CFLers? Doesn't make sense to me .................. remember Mark Dixon? Chuckie K bad in the day? I think maybe we should be looking at a few more CFLers.
     
  22. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    Frankly no VK - he cannot make that throw and the extra Defender will just further confuse him - the PA pass is his bread and butter and the run is not entirely non-existent but it isn't used as much with one less down - less room for error.

    I mean if you don't string some throwing first downs together it becomes a punting league
     
  23. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    Thanks I just puked in my mouth - WE HAVE A BAD TEAM! Stop rubbing it in - WHY MUST YOU GUYS KEEP REMINDING ME!!

    So yes Ireland got owned in rounds 2-7 the past to years

    And that TE JONES is just amazing :chuckle:

    As are most of these guys outside of Martin :hclap:

    (and when I write Jeff it is obvious that HE alone is responsible for his staff)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2013
  24. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    What happened to CHAD OWENS???

    Is he a better PLAY MAKER than Thigpen?
     
  25. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    Marcus Thigpen? Marcus THigpen? CHURN CHURN CHURN the bottom

    CHAD OWENS CHAD OWENS look him up, watch some footage, even the Jets Tannebaum was on the hunt for Owens

    I thought this was what a GM was supposed to do sign prospects like CHAD OWENS not guys who can't get on the field like WATT - (a practice player in the CFL) I wish have of you spent a little time looking into these stiffs that we are bringing into camp.
     
  26. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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  27. KnifeOfTheDead

    KnifeOfTheDead Starter

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    Yes, Cam Wake was a great find by Ireland. Thigpen was another great find. He's relatively cheap and is currently one of the best return men in the NFL. As far as I can tell, he has a better percentage finding playmakers in Canada than he does through the draft, and yet here we are. He's doing his job, and he's finding good talent in Canada. There's no reason anybody should complain about him scouting Canadian talent because they are making this team better.
     
  28. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    Wake was a no brainer - A few of us told you all this from the moment he was signed - some things are just that obvious

    Why didn't he get Owens in camp why did we get Thigpen who is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better

    Why do we churn the bottom 5 - and not adress the CORE through the draft

    We get stomped in the draft it is as old as the people who defend the CFL product

    Why Why Why
     
  29. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Why would you blast a guy for bringing in people to work out? CFL or not what's the difference? What harm can come out of working any and all players out?

    Eveyone acts like Jeff is flying all gods creation to evaluate all these players himself........naaaaa, wrong answer this is what all these guys get paid to do:


    [TABLE="width: 500"]

    [TABLE="class: commontable, width: 100%"]

    [TD="width: 75%"]Assistant General Manager
    [TD="width: 25%"]Brian Gaine[/TD]

    Director of College Scouting
    Chris Grier

    Assistant Director of Pro Scouting
    Chris Shea

    Manager of Football Administration
    Ryan Herman

    College Scouts
    Ron Brockington


    Adam Engroff


    Anthony Hunt


    Ron Labadie


    Mike Murphy


    Joe Schoen


    Matt Winston

    Pro Scouts
    Adam Howe


    Nate Sullivan

    Scouting Assistants
    Chris Buford,


    Cody Rager

    Executive Assistant/Football Operations
    Annie Berger


    Irma Gonzalez
    [/TABLE]
    [/TD]
    [/TABLE]

    So let them bring 100 more CFL players if we find one more Wake or Thigpen I'm all for it. Cheap and productive, Orande Gadsden came out of the Areana League for Miami in the 90's, Bernie Parmalee was UDFA and a UPS driver when he was brought in. Bess was a UDFA. I mean blast the guy all you want it isn't like he is trading picks and players away just to do it, there have been far far wrose GM's to take office here in Miami than Jeff Ireland.
     
  30. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    I am not a J Ireland hater -

    Can't do it alone agreed

    The last time we were in the POS was only because Brady was injured - if my memory serves me correct prior to that appearance we were bombed by JAX - a long long long long time ago - THEREFORE all those players listed do NOTHING for me unless we are perrenially in the PO HUNT!!

    Is Jeff resp for the entire landscape of the team? Is Obama responsible for George Bush's desicions?

    He is responsible NOW!

    And yes Ireland is responsible for all those listed - no??? Is he yes, or no? Jeff's success is predicated on HIS people

    If the shelf is bare better get a better CFL scout better get a better NCAA scout to boot as well

    More than the bottom 5 of the roster needs to go -

    I am 44 and FED up with mising on the draft (the CFL is a crap shoot of wasted time) every now and again something sticks - Wake was special he is not the general rule = people don't realize that prior B Browner the last CFLer to have a starting role on an NFL Defense was Bennie Thompson of KC

    If you can't stand the kitchen the heck out - maybe Gaine is better - someone has to stand and be counted :idk:
     
  31. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    You go ahead and misquote

    What's more embarrassing our recent Drafts, our consitent PO appearances our or crying about our lack therof?

    If you are going to the CFL at lesat bring out the right guys - there are only a couple who stand out from the rest and it isn't that often - but you ninnies don't watch the CFL
     
  32. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    I believe Hartline,Clemons,Bess,Smith,Jerry,Jones,Misi,Carroll,Carpenter were all drafted/signed while Parcells was still in charge
    that leaves Martin who was terrible this season,Vernon who hardly played,Lane who may have played himself out of Miami left on your list.

    If we have to hang our collective hats and be proud of Lane,Martin and Vernon we have major problems
     
  33. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Seasoned Veteran

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    Also as a Canadian (who now lives back in Toronto) you're hilariously wrong. There are always 1 or 2 guys who blow up like Wake did and amount to jack ****. If it was such a no brainer why weren't teams jumping at signing Wake? Explain that to me.

    Stop pretending you are speaking with any sort of authority on this subject. Jeff Ireland is doing his job by leaving NO stone unturned. If he didn't sign a bunch of FAs from the CFL youd probably be blasting him for not BEING THOROUGH and then we'd be in a perpetual cycle of you complaining about anything and everything the man does.
     
  34. Adam First

    Adam First Don't Hate Miami Finheaven VIP Donator

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    The fact that Ireland has found two IMPACT PLAYERS (Thigpen & Wake) from the CFL deserves some commendation, don't you think?
     
  35. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Actually Gadsden and Parmalee were both parts of playoff teams with Marino and as I said found in the rough. Regardless of Tom Brady or not Miami was in the playoffs, hands down, they would have been in the playoffs wither way. It isn't like Miami swept the Pats in 2008, the series was split, and even with Brady Miami has split their fair share of series. 10-6 still got Miami in the playoffs that year, 11-5 won the division w/o Brady.

    So Bess was indeed also part of a playoff team and the only ones who were not are Wake and Thigpen. No Obama isn't responsible for Bush but they both are responsible for the same thing, the USA. The same can be said about any NFL GM, does he control what he inherits from the prior GM, no but he damn sure can use it to build from.

    I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
     
  36. mithga13

    mithga13 Well-Known Member

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    I say look at the arena league and the CFL....but as far as signing guys as free agents from those sources, your initial buy should be considered bottom 10% of the roster.
     
  37. J Tes

    J Tes next generation

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    What did I misquote you on? I'll answer for you. Nothing. You have cried for a few days now about Ireland bringing in CFL guys for tryouts and asked why he's wasting his time with it. Now that the board hasn't jumped on your failed attempt to start another Ireland bashing thread you've changed it to whining about his draft. If you wanted to bash Ireland find one of the other many threads to do so. You thought you found another things to complain about, that everyone else would jump on but you failed. Stop while you're behind
     
  38. J Tes

    J Tes next generation

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    Omg stop! Miami's season is over, just like 24 other teams. So what, he's giving guys tryouts and "churning" the bottom 5 of the roster. So are the rest of the NFL. Free agency doesn't begin for 2 months. The draft in over 3. So let me make this easy on you, he can't sign any of the guys that hit the market once this season ends. He can't decide to turn in his draft card for the 12th pick so he's doing what he can. Scouting. The includes the CFL. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
     
  39. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    Thigpen - Impact not sure how you put those two words together - how about roster guy who will never be a core player let alone on the team in two years
     
  40. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    I am no authority - proof is in the pudding - how long is he are you going to live off the Wake signing? No stone unturned? How about work the draft and get some players worth their weight
     
  41. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    BTW smart guy - Name of one CFL Defender who was an MVP candidate?
     
  42. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    I never said Ireland promised antything to these players - he is doing nothing (with his scouts with the CFL) and should stick to the draft for once - where he is getting owned
     
  43. rev kev

    rev kev THE DEFLATOR

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    [h=3]http://www.argonauts.ca/roster/show/id/3155

    http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/3753

    Spencer Watt

    Receiving











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    [/TD]
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    Name Year[​IMG]
    Team No. Yards Avg Long TD
    WATT, S TOR 14 201 14.4 50 2
    WATT, S TOR 29 345 11.9 48 1
    WATT, S TOR 34 424 12.5 49 0
    77 970 12.6 50
    [/h]Chad Owens
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    [TD="class: last_total"]9[/TD]
    [/TR]
    Name Year[​IMG]
    Team No. Yards Avg Long TD
    OWENS, C MTL 1 10 10.0 10 0
    OWENS, C TOR 46 576 12.5 63 3
    OWENS, C TOR 70 722 10.3 48 0
    OWENS, C TOR 94 1,328 14.1 60 6 211 2,636 12.5 63
    Sorting

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    Name Year[​IMG]
    Team No. Yards Avg Long TD
    OWENS, C MTL 2 80 40.0 43 0
    OWENS, C TOR 53 1,216 22.9 57 0
    OWENS, C TOR 69 1,750 25.4 91 1
    OWENS, C TOR 71 1,588 22.4 66 0 195 4634 23.8 91

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    Name Year[​IMG]
    Team No. Yards Avg Long TD
    OWENS, C MTL 3 10 3.3 0 0
    OWENS, C TOR 84 1,060 12.6 0 2
    OWENS, C TOR 68 754 11.1 0 1
    OWENS, C TOR 77 828 10.8 0 0 232 2652 11.4 0
     
  44. J Tes

    J Tes next generation

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    So again, I ask you what I misquoted you on? I never said you said that, just that the tantrum you have been having you would think that he did sign them and handed them a starting job. I'll make it easier on you- you're massively overreacting to something that is common practice.
     
  45. GasPed

    GasPed Well-Known Member

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    Rev, I usually agree with a lot of what you say, but I'm having a hard time with this one. Yes, a couple of the recent CFL guys we've brought in are questionable, but I don't know that means the whole CFL scouting thing is a waste of time.

    I agree that some of the CFL recruits we've brought in are pure garbage, and I have no idea what we're thinking when we fly them in. Spencer Watt and Lee Robinson are the most recent examples, but I can recall guys like Mark Restelli being brought in who weren't much good either. I watch these guys in the CFL and there's nothing that says "NFL quality" in any of them, so I scratch my head when we bring them in.

    Having said that, there are some quality acorns and backups to be found in the CFL (e.g. Wake, Thigpen, Browner, Jerrell Freeman, Tom Johnson, Andrew Hawkins, Garrett McIntyre, etc.), and I have no problem with bringing in someone like Brian Simmons for a tryout because he is a quality football player who I think has a chance of making the team and helping us. And if it takes three misses to get one hit, then maybe that's an ok ratio - one that would be just as good as you'd do with NCAA/UFA scouting. To me that's the indicator - as long as we're getting a decent ratio of hits to misses, whether it be CFL or NCAA of FA scouting, then we're probably doing a decent job with our quality of scouting and with the amount of time we're spending in each area. If not (and bringing guys like Spencer Watt in are not going to help that ratio), then we've definitely got a problem.
     
  46. fatkirstyalley

    fatkirstyalley Donut Enthusiast

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    Jesus...he has found more CFL talent than anyone else....and we are now bagging on him for that. I am not a huge Ireland fan, but give him credit. He got 1 viable stud and 1 explosive special teamer out of it.
     
  47. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Seasoned Veteran

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    I'll get him to agree to that when you agree to write in English, and not post 5 posts in a row. Condense it down to ONE long post. Deal?

    Also I'm not going to bother debating/discussing *anything* with someone who immediately enters the discussion with a condescending remark and mockingly calling someone "smart guy".

    John Chick, I suppose? Nobody took that guy seriously and I remember him being a big time CFL defensive end. Same path as Cameron Wake, as well. Fact of the matter is, you simply had no assurances that Wake would be big in the NFL. The talent gap is SO large that you can't take that to heart. I remember Wake's sack numbers being insane. Like ridiculously insane. But part time pass rusher, undersized, at his mid to late 20s already? Not many teams would go after him unless they were absolutely positively sure. Ireland was.

    And you can't casually hand wave the suggestion of Cameron Wake and Marcus Thigpen when you are arguing the same point. We are arguing what is known as a counter point. If you are sitting there telling me that Jeff Ireland can't hang his hat on discovering Cam Wake and recognizing his ability when people question why he spends so much time scouting the CFL, then you simply aren't able to be reasoned with. You're not here to discuss, you're here to preach.

    And sorry, this isn't church and you're not speaking with a grain of authority. At this point we can hope that other people will join in and make this thread a worthwhile discussion, but as long as you dominate it by posting 6-7 times a page, I'd wager a guess that it won't be happening.
     

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