Discussion in 'General NFL Forum' started by Phinatic8u, Jan 21, 2013.
Flacco is on the cusp of elite, Ryan is borderline average.
Ryan is approaching Tony Romo status. Plays well in the regular season but cant get over the hump in the playoffs. I. cant agree with the statement he is borderline average.
Matt Ryan: 30-42 396yrds 3 TDs 1 INT........Joe Flacco 21-36 240 Yrds 3TDs 0 INT
Hardly average. Why is it the average fan doesn't get the fact the QB doesn't play defense...and neither did the Falcons in the 2nd half. Plus having a mediocre coach inhibits the QB somewhat.
You wouldnt exactly say Flacco lit the world on fire after they fired Cam. The D has carried that team through the playoffs....see the shut out of the Pats in the second half and the dismantling of Brady
Matt Ryan is good, but that fumble was just unbelievable. That's not even a rookie mistake, it's like a freshman mistake.
Matt Ryan didn't play well in the second half either.
The point being, Ryan is better than mediocre (and truth be told, im not a ryan fan), and Flacco is a lot of talk with little to show for it....certainly no more than Ryan has
Matt Ryan is still young. Peyton didn't win his first playoff game for a few seasons either, and it took him even longer to finally win a SB. That said, it's getting tough to not look at the guy and see a choke artist. The rule of averages said he would win a play off game eventually, and they squeaked one out against Seattle, despite the team's best effort to choke it away. The same old Falcons showed up yesterday.
I don't get this sudden fascination with Flacco everyone has. Elite implies the guy can literally put the team on his shoulder if everything else is failing, and pull out a win. Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning can do that. Those QBs can overcome a total lack of defense, run game, and special teams breakdowns, and still pull out a victory. Can anyone honestly say they think Flacco could do that? I couldn't. The guy is an efficient QB, he makes the right reads, and he seems to keep the mistakes to a minimum. Surround a QB like that with playmakers, and it's a recipe for success. That does not, however, make him elite...
Matt Ryan is not good enough to carry a team through the air in the playoffs. His arm is subpar by playoff standards and he's not particularly mobile or athletic. Those traits naturally lend themselves to what we've seen, performances that decline in the postseason. His interception percentage is higher in the playoffs and his yards per attempt drops, to barely above 6.5. Yesterday's game was actually the first playoff game his yards per attempt were very good, exceeding his career average.
At this stage he'd need the perfect situational layout to advance to the Super Bowl, let alone win it. And it was extremely favorable this year, hosting teams with a rookie quarterback and essentially a rookie quarterback. He can't count on that again.
BTW, I thought Atlanta got a huge break yesterday when San Francisco chose to defer. None of the announcers mentioned it. Atlanta was on a huge high, after pulling out the Seattle game in the final seconds to get the monkey off their back. The offense was responsible. There's no way I would have intentionally handed the ball to that offense, at home, to open a conference championship game. You're asking for trouble, and an early deficit. I love to bet the first half but no chance I was getting involved with the 49ers -2 yesterday. Some of my betting friends who follow situational trends as I do mapped it out perfectly, betting Atlanta in the first half with intention to take the 49ers at halftime. A few of them chide me, probably with justification, for being reluctant to oppose my team in the first half, even when I know darn well it's a disastrous situational spot. I was the one who came up with these situational angles but my friends seemingly take greater advantage. Of course, it worked out for the 49ers when they scored to open the third quarter. But you can't depend on that. Comebacks are for fools.
Atlanta needs to fortify the team around Ryan, to allow him to pass when he wants to, not all the time. In virtually every playoff game Ryan has been asked to throw it 35 or 40 times or more. He can't get away with that. When I say I prefer Griese to Marino it's with an understanding the team would naturally be constructed around Griese's strengths, and not lazily as a pantyhose passing team. Atlanta ran the ball only 378 times this season. That's Marino territory. Kind of ridiculous to expect Matt Ryan to carry a team through the playoffs with those tendencies. He needs a framework of 25-30 passes in a playoff game.
Flacco's stats are very similar in the postseason to regular season, slightly above 2% interception percentage and roughly 7 yards per attempt. Not world beater but it keeps you in the game. In the Super Bowl I'll be interested to see if they used the shotgun approach, like 3rd and early 4th quarter yesterday, or return to standard.
BTW, that Ravens possession with about 8 minutes remaining yesterday was perhaps the dumbest football I've ever seen. Nobody talked about it since the game ended tamely. Brady failed on downs and New England was deflated, down 28-13. The defense at that point normally sags and running plays gash for good yardage. Instead, Baltimore brainstormed to line up in the shotgun again, and throw the ball incomplete on 2 of 3 plays. The Patriots were briefly energized when they had all but given up. Essentially the Baltimore possession didn't exist and the Ravens defense was forced to stop Brady again, with half the quarter remaining and the Patriots still with 3 time outs.
Yeah, Peyton overcome the hurdle and won a superbowl. However, what's more startling to me is that last week in Denver was the 8th time he was 1 and done. At 1-4, disappearing in 2 2nd halfs, being offensively goose-egged in last season's playoff, Ryan looks like an effective regular season QB, and maybe even a good one when not hearing the opponents pounding footsteps at his back to intimidate him in "all or nothing" games. But so far nothing would make the compelling argument that he's gonna be money in the postseason! On the other hand, Flacco is 8-4 and over the last 2 seasons he's thrown 10TDs and only 1 int, with about a 116QBR this postseason and and 96QBR in 11's postseason. Had Lee Evans not dropped that well placed end zone pass, the Ravens would be going back to the SB 2 years running.
Optimally I guess, you'd want to play Ryan during season and have Flacco step in for the playoffs since life under the Big Top or epic comebacks don't seem to phase the guy who out-dueled Brady and Peyton the last 2 weeks.
Again, Flacco was the bargain in the '08 draft.. and since hindsight is always 20/20 would have been the definitive way to go. Ryan might have been a better pick than Long , but we could have still had Long and traded up for Flacco who was zooming up the draft charts so he was far from a secret.
Matt Ryan has 3 players to throw to that are top 10 and top 5 for there position. Also when healthy a top 10 RB.
And he still can't do ****.
Matt Ryan's arm bothering him may had prevented him from reaching his true would be SB potential. Now that Joe Flacco is going and Matt is not!
Wow. seriously? Flacco has played absolutely lights out this post season, And has been making big plays when needed, seee the Broncos game, which oh by the way the Ravens D only let the Broncos score 34 points, come on man give Flacco the credit he deserves, he been by far the best QB this post season and the dude wins playoff games. If Lee evans didnt suck and drop that endzone catch, Flacco and the Ravens would have went to the super bowl last year as well.
Flacco and the ravens remind me of the Giants super bowl run last year
They are pretty even in regular season records too, plus Flacco plays in a much tougher division.
nothing wrong with Flacco but he is not better than ryan. Marino was among the best and never won a superbowl. The problem is the qb gets too much credit for superbowl wins
I wonder if Matt Ryan knows how famous he is to Dolphins' fans. Seriously some people here are obsessed. Only other fan base that are as obsessed as Dolphins' fans about Matt are Rams' fans.
At this point, unless someone has an axe to grind, it would be pretty damn hard to argue that Flacco is worse! Either way it's now obvious that @18 in the 08 draft, Flacco has turned out to be the best and smartest pick when all is said and done.