Johnny Manziel Critics

[Hungover]

Kid’s gonna be a star.

George Whitfield said this guy’s heart is as big as a Toyota, and I believe him. Easily one of the most psycho competitors I’ve seen in my short time watching football. I don’t think a guy with that big of a flame in his heart to win is just going to rest on his laurels. I mean, if you take his pro-day into consideration, even some of his harshest critics like Ron Jaworksi were pretty much in agreement when they said they saw vast improvements in his mechanics, velocity, etc. “George Whitfield has done a terrific job of coaching him up. I did not see those flaws in mechanics [at his pro day]. I saw him stand on his back foot, driving the football. Throwing the football with velocity and accuracy.” I’d also think most people would agree that even after he won the Heisman his freshman season he came back an even better player for his sophomore campaign. So, I personally don’t share Zimmer’s concerns about this guy’s desire to improve his skills.

I also don’t think he has to dramatically change his play style, either. He just needs to learn to get his eight yards and get down or out of bounds. Russell Wilson ran for over five-hundred yards last year while taking very little punishment, and it’s because he is absolutely deft at avoiding contact and living to fight another day. You could certainly question his instincts about protecting himself when the bullets start flying, but I think the kid’s smart enough that I’d take my chances. Mike Tomlin uses a phrase I really like which is “I’d rather say woah than sic’ em”, so I think most coaches would be willing to work with him on that. Also, like Wilson, he has huge hands and size fifteen shoes; which in and of itself means nothing, but it does go to show he’s not your typical six-footer.

I also think he gets a raw deal on his pure throwing ability. Mayock attended his pro-day in person and said without question he has the quickest release and most velocity out of any Quarterback in this draft. Also said he’s a better natural thrower than both Wilson and Kaepernick. "I think he's a better thrower than either (Colin) Kaepernick or Russell Wilson were when they came out (of college)," Mayock said. "This was the most different evaluation I've ever done. At the end of it, you just trust your gut."

Personally, I don’t know what games you’re watching if you would take Bortles or Bridgewater over this kid. Sometimes I think these NFL types out-smart themselves. I’ll take Johnny Swag every single time over a dude who shrinks under the Pro-Day pressure of having all those scouts and GMs watching your every throw. Even worse than that, though, were Bridgewater’s lame excuses afterwards. I mean, if you want to blame your gloves then whatever, but don’t come back a few days later and say Kentucky’s cold weather affected you because you’ve been throwing in Florida. You were INSIDE A DOME, Teddy. No one wants to hear that, especially not a team in a cold weather city.

I'm not a Manziel hater - he's an amazing college QB, but the issue is if that transfers to the next level. Frankly I don't think it will. He will be overdrafted and be a first rounder, but frankly I don't think he's better than third round in this super-draft, and probably on projection should be lower than that.

As for his mechanics: he has different release points for whatever distance he's throwing, and his deeper balls just die at the end - you may think these are minor things but they will be ruthlessly exposed at the next level. His footwork isn't great but it has definitely got better, the other issues I just don't think are correctable. He just doesn't have a cannon for an arm and has compensated via poor technique.

His competitive streak: yes he's definitely competitive - but that doesn't mean he will make it in the NFL - there are plenty more college players who are probably much more competitive who will never even make a practice squad in the NFL, just because they don't have the talent.

His play style: I don't really know what to say about this - if you don't think he has to dramatically change his play style you just aren't seeing the same things I see about his play. His play needs a very dramatic overhaul or his stay in the NFL will be an extremely short one, for the fact alone he will face significant injury issues, let alone anything else (ie his progressions etc).

People keep on mentioning Wilson and Brees in relation to Manziel but they are the exception that proves the rule - if you are a bigger QB you have a greater chance to succeed, that's one reason why Bortles is on top of most QB draft boards for this draft. Bortles talents (size, arm strength etc) just project better to the next level, add to the fact he's been playing in an NFL style offence the last two years - he's basically just a much safer bet than Manziel. Yes Manziel is the better college player, but that doesn't mean Johnny Football will be the better NFL player. As for Bridgewater - he's definitely a better prospect than Manziel, would not be surprised if Manziel goes earlier in the draft however.

Anyway, its an interesting argument, end of the day we aren't really going to know who will be better for at least another 4 years or so - however I will point out the obvious fact there have been a number of stunning college QBs whose talents didn't transfer to the NFL. The list of NFL QB busts is littered with Heisman Trophy winners and National Championship winners - frankly in my view Manziel will be yet another bust and as I've said on here once before, I pity the team that overdrafts him in the first round, or even the second for that matter.

 

[xXwarXx]

Case Keenum 2.0, in every way, except Keenum has a much better deep ball, but is less accurate on the short and mid range stuff.

Other than that, those two are so freaking similar it's sickening.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I don't think he's similar to Keenum at all. Keenum was in college 6 years before he was really effective running Sumlin's offense. He was a 25 year old playing against C-USA defenses. Manziel dominated NFL caliber players as a 20 year old redshirt freshman on his way to being the first freshman to ever win a Heisman Trophy. He actually improved as a passer last year.

The big hands are a legitimate key here. He has hands bigger than most prototypical NFL QB's.

Manziel cemented himself as one of the best college football players of all time in 2 years. Keenum isn't even in Manziel's class. He's in Kliff Kingsbury's class. Manziel can make every throw required to play at the next level. Keenum never had that level of arm strength.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Case Keenum 2.0, in every way, except Keenum has a much better deep ball, but is less accurate on the short and mid range stuff.

Other than that, those two are so freaking similar it's sickening.

Just for the record xXwarXx says Keenum has a much better deep ball than Manziel. Noted.

 

[xXwarXx]

I don't think he's similar to Keenum at all. Keenum was in college 6 years before he was really effective running Sumlin's offense. He was a 25 year old playing against C-USA defenses. Manziel dominated NFL caliber players as a 20 year old redshirt freshman on his way to being the first freshman to ever win a Heisman Trophy. He actually improved as a passer last year.

The big hands are a legitimate key here. He has hands bigger than most prototypical NFL QB's.

Manziel cemented himself as one of the best college football players of all time in 2 years. Keenum isn't even in Manziel's class. He's in Kliff Kingsbury's class. Manziel can make every throw required to play at the next level. Keenum never had that level of arm strength.

I was more comparing there play style and level of production in college. Especially there god awful stats against the blitz are similar. Or the fact they both run around in circles for no damn reason far more often than any NFL qb should.

Yes I agree, Manziel is a higher level player, but IMO, not by a awhile lot. And there far more similar than most will admit. Keenum would of done just fine chilling behind that Texas oline, tossing to Evans. He looked pretty good in the NFL before teams realized a constant blitz and pressure would completely disrupt him, and Manziel is going to find the same exact scenario.

And can we stop with manziels hands and feet already? Why are manziels hands and feet so relevant, I've never heard anyone talk about a qbs hands and feet so often as Manziel, its like you guys are trying to make up for his short comings by talking up his hands and feet, it's kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

---------- Post added at 08:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

Just for the record xXwarXx says Keenum has a much better deep ball than Manziel. Noted.

Good, take more notes...

 

[j-off-her-doll]

I was more comparing there play style and level of production in college. Especially there god awful stats against the blitz are similar. Or the fact they both run around in circles for no damn reason far more often than any NFL qb should.

Yes I agree, Manziel is a higher level player, but IMO, not by a awhile lot. And there far more similar than most will admit. Keenum would of done just fine chilling behind that Texas oline, tossing to Evans. He looked pretty good in the NFL before teams realized a constant blitz and pressure would completely disrupt him, and Manziel is going to find the same exact scenario.

And can we stop with manziels hands and feet already? Why are manziels hands and feet so relevant, I've never heard anyone talk about a qbs hands and feet so often as Manziel, its like you guys are trying to make up for his short comings by talking up his hands and feet, it's kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

---------- Post added at 08:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------



Good, take more notes...

If the issue of hand size is new to you, I assume that a lot of other things are new to you as well. Do a quick Google search.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/a...nt-Trait/b151b153-1e0d-409f-b9f1-b63727fe96cd

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I was more comparing there play style and level of production in college. Especially there god awful stats against the blitz are similar. Or the fact they both run around in circles for no damn reason far more often than any NFL qb should.

Yes I agree, Manziel is a higher level player, but IMO, not by a awhile lot. And there far more similar than most will admit. Keenum would of done just fine chilling behind that Texas oline, tossing to Evans. He looked pretty good in the NFL before teams realized a constant blitz and pressure would completely disrupt him, and Manziel is going to find the same exact scenario.

And can we stop with manziels hands and feet already? Why are manziels hands and feet so relevant, I've never heard anyone talk about a qbs hands and feet so often as Manziel, its like you guys are trying to make up for his short comings by talking up his hands and feet, it's kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

---------- Post added at 08:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------



Good, take more notes...

Hand size is a critical component for any offensive skill position that makes their living handling the football. That's why they spend so much time measuring 'em. None moreso than the QB position.

Lack of height can be overcome. Small hands cannot. Take it from somebody who coached high school quarterbacks 25 years ago.

 

[Hungover]

Yes I'm certain Manziels massive hands will impact his ability to make correct reads from the pocket in the NFL, change the velocity on his deep ball, and help him avoid injury when he takes off from the pocket for the 2nd time in a row and the 6th time in his previous 10 plays and gets hammered by a 250 lb 'backer moving at NFL speed . WTF.

 

[xXwarXx]

I never said hand size isnt an issue, I just said I'm tired of hearing about in regards to Manziel, in the history of NFL qbs, I never remember anyones hand size constantly being brought up. It's been noted, great, he's got big hands, ok, move on. I dont need to hear Gil Brandt ranting and raving about Manziels damn feet size for 3 days straight, its ridiculous. Are we drafting a guy because of his hand size now? Probably not.

Maybe we can measure his junk too, and do a study on it, and stats may show, if he has smaller junk, it gives his legs more room to extend and move, allowng him to add more speed to his 40 time, bringing up a qbs draft projection.

Small junk = high draft pick now. Gotta draft him, if he got a small package.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Now you two are just trolling.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

He'll have to learn how to give himself up. That's a different subject entirely. Quarterbacks get hurt all the time staying in the pocket.... injuries are unpredictable. He's been hit by plenty of 250 pound linebackers that are on their way to the NFL.

By the way, I'm on record already stating that I'm not at all convinced that he's going to be the savior of any franchise. I've only felt that way about 2 or 3 QB's in the last decade. However, anybody that thinks he can't play in the NFL is a fool. Teams are trotting out QB's every week that aren't as talented as Manziel. People vastly overrate the talent in the NFL to begin with. There's not that many elite players in the NFL... the majority of them are borderline professionals themselves.

Again, the point is that some of the knocks on him are legitimate, some are simply blowing smoke. Some of the comparisons made for him are insulting, because they don't account for anything he accomplished in college. Most of which hadn't been done before.

 

[Hungover]

Now you two are just trolling.

TBH I thought the trolling was the hand size stuff - hey I hope he proves me wrong and makes the style he has works in the NFL because if he does he will be a one man highlight reel, unfortunately I just don't see it.

 

[xXwarXx]

He'll have to learn how to give himself up. That's a different subject entirely. Quarterbacks get hurt all the time staying in the pocket.... injuries are unpredictable. He's been hit by plenty of 250 pound linebackers that are on their way to the NFL.

By the way, I'm on record already stating that I'm not at all convinced that he's going to be the savior of any franchise. I've only felt that way about 2 or 3 QB's in the last decade. However, anybody that thinks he can't play in the NFL is a fool. Teams are trotting out QB's every week that aren't as talented as Manziel. People vastly overrate the talent in the NFL to begin with. There's not that many elite players in the NFL... the majority of them are borderline professionals themselves.

Again, the point is that some of the knocks on him are legitimate, some are simply blowing smoke. Some of the comparisons made for him are insulting, because they don't account for anything he accomplished in college. Most of which hadn't been done before.

Keenum had better production than him, maybe some of the best production in college football history. If accomplishments and production meant anything, he wouldn't of went undrafted.

Every time someone gets in a debate about Manziel, it's he has the "it" factor, big hands, big feet, he's a winner, production, etc etc. It's all the stuff you say about a player when they lack real good things to talk about.

Let's be honest here, he's a undersized qb, who's not that fast, for the NFL he has a average arm at best, he bails out of the pocket for no reason, and puts himself in trouble (ps good luck breaking that habit) he takes very hard hits, and this is all behind a oline that could protect him as well as he will ever be protected.

His stats against the blitz and pressure are god awful. Seriously when he gets to the NFL, this guy is going to be in trouble. I don't see any way around it.

And I'm not even getting to off field stuff where this guy does WTF he wants anyway. Could you imagine the difference in how people would talk about Manziel....... If he was black?

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Perhaps once he realizes that he's an investment, he'll change his style. But there's no need to do that in college.

His style is why Texas A&M was relevant in the SEC. He had to play that way to overcome a putrid defense every week that couldn't stop anybody and gives up nearly 40 points per game. He can't just manage the game from the pocket and allow his defense and running game to dominate opponents the way A.J. McCarron could. Manziel had to lay it all on the line every week.

To me that's the beauty of college football, and why I enjoy it so much more than the watered down NFL. Nobody knows what he'll do as a professional, nor does it matter to me. Manziel was one of the most enjoyable to watch that has ever put on cleats. He'll always have that.

 

[Hungover]

He'll have to learn how to give himself up. That's a different subject entirely. Quarterbacks get hurt all the time staying in the pocket.... injuries are unpredictable. He's been hit by plenty of 250 pound linebackers that are on their way to the NFL.

By the way, I'm on record already stating that I'm not at all convinced that he's going to be the savior of any franchise. I've only felt that way about 2 or 3 QB's in the last decade. However, anybody that thinks he can't play in the NFL is a fool. Teams are trotting out QB's every week that aren't as talented as Manziel. People vastly overrate the talent in the NFL to begin with. There's not that many elite players in the NFL... the majority of them are borderline professionals themselves.

Again, the point is that some of the knocks on him are legitimate, some are simply blowing smoke. Some of the comparisons made for him are insulting, because they don't account for anything he accomplished in college. Most of which hadn't been done before.

I don't think some of what you have said is actually true. The NFL represents some of the absolute cream of the crop athletes alive on this Earth - to even make it to an NFL roster is a massive achievement and even some of those on practice squads are freakish athletes. When you see a player who stands out from a run-of-the-mill NFL standard you are seeing someone of awesome capability, because to rise above that standard of athlete shows truly outstanding quality and ability.