Josh Kaddu told to gain 10 pounds; will be tried out as a pass rusher in camp

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by TheWalrus, Mar 19, 2013.

  1. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    Hidden in a bunch of crap in an Armando article was this interesting tidbit:

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/03/19/v-fullstory/3295745/armando-salguero-more-free-agents.html

    Kaddu is a full 6'3, has 33 and 3/8th inch arms and posted bests of 34 inches in the vertical and 10'03" in the broad jump but was limited through the whole lead up to the draft with hamstring injuries. I'll leave others who looked at his tape to chime more in on this (my impression of him from the preseason was that he was sort of stiff and staightlineish, but with some explosiveness), but here's a scouting report from last year:

     
  2. kcbrown

    kcbrown Life is what we make it. Donator

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    242 isn't enough? Well, hope he can get on the field more next year.
     
  3. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    you can never have enough pass rushers.... go for it
     
  4. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    Cameron Wake goes about 250 pounds, maybe a bit more (after coming out of the draft at 235 pounds or so). You can't be a complete target against the run, even as a nickel rush guy. Bruce Irvin came in to the league at 245 or so pounds and will continue to fill out. It's not like Kaddu is particularly rocked up or anything:

    [​IMG]

    Also, I forgot to mention Kaddu had 6.5 sacks as a senior. Having not really watched any of his tape I can't speak to his pass rushing and whether that number is good, bad or mediocre considering his role. Good cut ups aren't particularly available of him on youtube, but if anyone finds any please post them.
     
  5. kcbrown

    kcbrown Life is what we make it. Donator

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    Good info Walrus...
     
  6. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    They list Cam Wake at 258 and I believe it. I'm 235 at 6'3 and I had first row seats for Buffalo game last year.. he looks easily 20lbs heavier than me. I think Irvin's technique against the run is pretty bad aside from his size. He doesn't get inside hand position and could afford to lower his pads...especially at 245lbs...
     
  7. flynryan15

    flynryan15 A True Fan Donator

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    I hope he doesn't do the John Jerry weight gain plan!
     
  8. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    good work tho Walrus, had no idea that he had 6.5 sacks his senior year.... That is more than Mingo and Ansah had last year................
     
  9. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    tell him to drink a gallon of milk a day for about a month. He will gain solid weight (7-20 lbs) and will burn the fat he gained from it by the end of Mini Camp
     
  10. Bumpus

    Bumpus Are you gonna drink that? Administrator Finheaven VIP

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    Meh. Somebody to keep an eye on, I guess. :idk:

    Good find.
     
  11. DefensiveEnd76

    DefensiveEnd76 Football Guru

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    Cam Wake is actually 260 now. Suppose they want Kaddu at 250 at least.
     
  12. xXwarXx

    xXwarXx A True Fan

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    When they asked philbin at the end of the season which rook roué was most excited about he said kaddu.

    Kaddu came from that Oregon system where they stress speed, so it's not surprising he needed to bulk up. He has really good closing speed, and is very agile. Definitely a player I'm excited to see more of.
     
  13. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    I always hate when people discuss players that combine is near top of any discussion. Combine creates so many busted picks. Nothing to do with Kaddu really but you either like what you see on tape or not.
     
  14. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    No offense to you, but you probably shouldn't be estimating Cameron Wake's weight by comparing his bulk to yours unless you're a professional body builder or something. Which perhaps you are.

    Bruce Irvin is not a good run defender, I agree. I tend to doubt he ever will be one, but he at least has some weight to him (not bulk, though) and enough fight and quickness so he doesn't get pancaked every time he's run at. If I were the Seahawks, though, I'd think twice before trying to bulk him up enough to be an every down player. He's another Fred Dean, the spectacular if somewhat forgotten prototype for today's nickel rusher, who began his career with San Diego before helping the 49ers win at least one Super Bowl (he sacked Marino at least once in the '84 game). He rode that role to a recent Hall of Fame induction. Irvin is the same kind of player, and that's all he should be. I was really hoping he would make it to our 2nd last year but cest la vie.

    I agree with Bumpus in that my main reaction to this nugget is to shrug my shoulders and say "okay, we'll see what comes from that." These position switches usually don't work. As Awsi Dooger might say, people who become great at something generally don't start doing that thing this late in their athletic careers. I certainly doubt the Dolphins consider his position switch as anything that's going to alter their draft or free agency plans one iota. If he shows promise (meaning, he clearly out performs Olivier Vernon) he'll make the team and some free agent will be a surprise cut, like Westerman last year. If he doesn't then he'll probably get cut, given I expect us to add another DE by free agency, trade or the draft (and we shouldn't forget about Derrick Shelby, who made the team as an UDFA and arguably out performed Vernon at DE).

    It's one of those positions where we have a lot of people which means we have no one. Every one of the guys auditioning for the role opposite Wake (I expect Odrick to be kicked inside) is absolutely fighting for their professional lives. Vernon gets the early nod to be safe given his draft position (and special teams prowess), but even he's not guaranteed anything.
     
  15. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Seasoned Veteran

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    Great OP, Walrus
     
  16. justdev7

    justdev7 Rookie

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    Nice! It's always huge if your late round picks can contribute.
     
  17. dlockz

    dlockz Hall Of Famer

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    big if on him
     
  18. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    Most of us already knew the kid was raw coming in. He does have some upside, especially as a pass rusher.


    I was pretty excited when we drafted him last year after watching some of his games. Great prospect.



    [video=youtube_share;UPDjZMmVRIE]http://youtu.be/UPDjZMmVRIE[/video]


    There is no Kaddu highlight video on youtube, so I found this one where it shows some plays he was in for the Ducks. He's the fast, tall, lanky guy coming off the line, usually on the left side. No. 56
     
  19. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    this seems like a last ditch effort to save an nfl career...as a lb kaddus not very instinctual...so i can see why they want to try something else...but at 242 lbs even while kaddu was explosive and pretty quick twitch he's very straight linish does not have good hips...has a problem opening his hips and redirecting...

    case in point the titans game...kaddu is at the los in an overload pressure set where he is unaccounted for he's clean to the backfield and qb and no help player to step up in pass pro and take him on and he comes in full bore and can't open his hips and redirect and flatten to the qb jake locker takes one subtle step forward kaddu overruns the play and is left grasping at air and lockers off and into our secondary in that voided hole on the outside that kaddu left for a like 30 yard run gain...

    after that play i don't think i ever saw kaddu rush again all season...

    so basically you got a plus athlete with stiff hips who's best in a straight line and lacks any rush arsenal or polish to beat nfl tackles on the outside...seems like a camp cut to me unless he is a monster on specials...and those 10 lbs they want him to gain aren't gonna help him lose any of that stiffness and may effect his burst and explosion...
     
  20. MrEd

    MrEd A True Fan

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    In that same article is that the Dolphins are yet still looking to add another DT? And with the interest in signing Osi Umenyiora and that they will be moving Kaddu and potentially Koa Misi to DE and Olivier Vernon in the mix as well, I think the handwriting is on the wall that we will likely see Odrick moved on draft night. Maybe in a trade up. There are a number of teams who are switching to a 3-4 or have a need for.......a 3-4 DE, which is what Odrick naturally is. I can't see Odrick who had what 5 sacks still here if they are trying to add Umenyiora and moving Kaddu and Misi to rush End in nickel "and" adding a DT. What kind of playing time would that leave for Odrick? I think he's being moved on draft night, along with Davone Bess and possibly Thomas.
     
  21. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    why does this team want to keep screwing with koa misis career...the guys has already shown that he can't beat nfl tackles consistently as a standup olb in a 34 he rescued his career as a solb in a 43 although he was a bit of a liability in coverage and at times missed his assignments or was late to read and dx plays in that regard...

    a move to a 43 de with misi is another way to get less bang for your buck...keep him as a 43 solb...where his strength at the poa the and the strength in his hands can show the most...and with wheeler and ellerbe we are gonna need as much as we can get...

    on passing downs unless you plan on rushing him you can pull him off the field for a better carry coverage down field athlete
     
  22. MrEd

    MrEd A True Fan

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    It could very well mean that we plan on using a hybrid Defense between the 4-3 and 3-4 too. They have alluded to "wanting to change the Defense" and went ahead and added two more blitzing types at LB and there have been reports that Misi will be used "differently"....so with Kaddu and Misi being tried out in some 3-4 alignments as WOLB/SOLB maybe. ..

    I found it interesting that instead of going cheaper and moving Odrick to DT and signing a pass rushing DE, they chose to spend on keeping Starks "also". Both Starks and Soliai can move in to NT in a 3-4 if need be and it gives us flexibility to chsnge it up throughout the game and Odrick slides over to 3-4 DE with Solia at NT and Starks at the other DE spot wth Wake and say Kaddu or Vernon on the other side then switch back to 4-3 and vice versa.
     
  23. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    the problem is every one of these lbs need to be clean to get rush pressure...wheeler is not a guy that will go thru someone to the qb ellerbe is a clean run to the ball guy misi as a edge rusher showed a bit more this year than years prior on the edge at times but is also a guy you want to blitz and scheme for clean looks...none of these guys is a win edge rusher against a tackle...kaddu the same...

    so yeah they may want to get more pressure with the lbs well the way to do that is design packages and schemes that the offense can't account for a guy as a edge rusher at lb like an overload set against an empty backfield or a delayed zone blitz etc taking advantage of interior linemen not having their heads on a swivel...
     
  24. MrEd

    MrEd A True Fan

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    I agree. Ellerbe or Wheeler would move ILB when sliding into the 3-4 alignments and Wake, Vernon, or say Kaddu (if this experiment works of course) to the other OLB spot. Then Umenyiora jumps back in and Wake back to DE in the 4-3.
     
  25. kcbrown

    kcbrown Life is what we make it. Donator

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    Just watched this whole thing....unless I am going blind, Kaddu did not make one play at all. No tackles, no pass deflections, no interceptions, nothing. He was always late to the pile. Seriously, watch the vid, they don't call his name one time.

    Not promising at all.
     
  26. Dolbron

    Dolbron Member

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    Might do him good, I remember David Martin was told to gain weight to play tight end, and he did a pretty good job for us.
     
  27. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    if i'm miami and i add a osi to the dline rotation who can rush not only at end but shifted inside in the nickle if i'm gonna take a guy and make him a rush lb that guy would be olivier vernon...he's the one guy i think can go thru people and has enough going for him as a an edge rusher that in certain packages i'd rush him as a stand up lb...

    his snaps at de are gonna take a hit if you add osi so why not get the most bang for your buck with an explosive move athlete and strength in his hands player...the one thing we have to understand though is like misi when the opposition can scheme and catch him in coverage there is gonna be a learning curve there and he's gonna be late at times picking up his responsibilites...but he's the one i'd rush as a lb at times of the de's...

    i don't agree with we should trade odrick not when at best you get a 3rd round pick for him but i don't think i'm a big fan of him dropping weight to play end either...he's a 43 dt ideally a penetration and gap shooter on the inside where his lateral agility and strength in his hands can overwhelm interior linemen and with solia and starks coming up again next year (my guess being this is starks last year as a dolphin) you have a 43 dt waiting in the wings to take over...

    keep odrick just don't give him so many pass rush snaps at de where in space his burst and explosion is pretty average...and he can't close from that far out to the qb
     
  28. MrEd

    MrEd A True Fan

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    I'd keep Odrick too. But now why this interest in "adding a DT"? Just doesn't make sense to me.
     
  29. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    being proactive for when they likely lose at least one next offseason...pretty critical position...must keep the mike backer and these light backers clean
     
  30. petefins

    petefins Go DOLPHINS

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    That's Horrible for you. Milk is for calves. These pro athletes have physicians that know the healthy way to put on lean mass.
     
  31. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    Like the Fred Dean comparison, Randy Cross said he used to ask him if he was going to work out today and said Fred would just sit in the locker room and smoke cigarettes haha... but I'm not gonna be confused with Arnold by any means but I am a college football player (actually right now I'm in between schools taking classes at a CC) and I am pretty lean at 235.. But they lie on the players weights. I think Jared Allen is listed at 270 but he said a year or 2 ago he plays at 255. But I would say that Wake is at least 250 and probably no more than 262
     
  32. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    I hope we keep Odrick. He is a good run defender in 4-3 alignments and the majority of his snaps are at DT in nickel package. Defenses play nickel 50-70% of the game nowadays. Inside rushers are rare and I think he is a big reason why our run defense is so stout (mainly Paul and Starks in the middle tho). I don't see the need to start Osi over Odrick in our base D. That is, if we sign Osi. I like a starting 4-3 DL of Wake Soliai Starks and Odrick. But in Nickel Wake Odrick Starks and Osi could wreak some havoc on Brady!!!
     
  33. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

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    Sounds like a "very healthy" way of going about it
    16,800 grams of Cholesterol
    57,600 grams of sodium
    3,800 grams of fat
    5,280 grams of sugar
    3,800 grams of protein
    72,000 calories
     
  34. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    Yeah, for me Odrick moves inside, which creates one need but doesn't satisfy another. The need it creates is a run down guy at DE. We still need a pass rusher opposite Wake just as we did last year.

    The run down thing I think we can do by rotation. Derrick Shelby is a good run defender. People forget him but he did some good work last year. Olivier Vernon imo is a better run defender right now than pass rusher.

    I have my doubts about both of them as pass rushers, though. Both are high effort guys who can get effort sacks, but I'm not seeing edge rush potential of any kind from Shelby (strictly an effort guy), and Vernon right now has some potential but it's just that. Kaddu is a candidate strictly for the nickel role. He's obviously not going to be a run defender, but he might possibly be the guy who can satisfy that need as a pass rusher.

    Which goes back to Osi and John Abraham, both of whom would be brought here strictly for pass rushing. That's who Kaddu would be competing with if one was brought in. And given the fact that you probably would end up paying either one of those guys some kind of guaranteed deal, Kaddu would be facing one hell of an uphill climb. I wonder if he's eligible for the practice squad, honestly. He could turn into another Eric Walden for us.

    Another thing I forgot to mention. Moving Kaddu leaves us even thinner at linebacker. Spitler, Trusnik and Jonathan Freeny are the pits as far as backups are concerned. I'd count on us taking a linebacker somewhere in the first three rounds of this draft. Word is the Dolphins are hot for Kaddu's Oregon teammate Kiko Alonso. They did the same "dinner/pro day" dance with him they did with Reshad and Tannehill before we drafted them.
     
  35. Schleprock

    Schleprock Mad and Surt...Legendary

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    GOMAD is absolutely terrible and should only be done by high school kids with ridiculous metabolism. Not to mention the Dolphins employ nutritionists/dieticians who could get far more precise macronutrient plans for him to ingest rather than "A gallon of whole milk a day."
     
  36. frb86

    frb86 Member

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    Don't forget about the squats and dead lifts or that diet will just make you fat.
     
  37. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    worked for me.. but then again I was 19....
     
  38. SRM

    SRM Scout Team

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    Pretty sure NFL players don't forget to do squats and deads.. lol
     
  39. LDaniel7

    LDaniel7 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    AWESOME Sig, Walrus! Burning Jets -- even got "Fireman Ed" in there, watching his beloved Jets burn, lol. Exquisite! lol

    LD
     
  40. C l u t c H 385

    C l u t c H 385 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone is trading for Thomas.
     
  41. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    I agree. But I also don't think we're moving him. He's the only proven pass blocker we have at running back. I'd be shocked if he was cut or traded.

    ---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:28 PM ----------

    Also, FWIW I would not be surprised to see us take Tank Carradine with our first round pick.
     
  42. ITS!MATEO

    ITS!MATEO A True Fan

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    He was the skinny guy that was on the left side most of the time. In that video he made like 2 tackles and kept putting pressure on the QB from his side. He also covered the TE a few times.
     
  43. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Not a surprising development. That's what he should've been playing all along in addition to special teams.
     
  44. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    You think he has any actual potential there?
     
  45. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Probably not. But it's where he needs to be.

    The reason I was never that confident in the pick is because he was a classic "puzzle pieces don't fit" kind of guy. That's how I look at draft prospect. The pieces have to fit.

    He was a sack guy but he got those sacks as more of a blitzer than as a pass rusher, which points you toward linebacker instead of true defensive end pass rusher. On the other hand, he was bad in coverage and showed no real ability there, and he had questionable instincts for stopping the run as a linebacker. That's a double-whammy as far as trying to be an actual linebacker goes. So at that point he's got one strike against him as a pass rusher but two strikes against him as a linebacker, you might as well toss him in as a pass rusher and see what he's got.

    Only thing I was confident he could do from the start was be good on special teams. Thought we saw flashes of that in 2012.
     
  46. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    Sounds about right. It's going to be hard for him to make the team, though, given DL is more stacked than LB depth wise, especially if we bring in another guy which it seems likely we'll do. Lots of STs in both groups, too. Like I said in another post I think the biggest impact this will have on the team is it makes it a near certainty we use a relatively high pick on a linebacker this year.
     
  47. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    Immediately after the Draft in my review, the guys I pegged that I'd have rather had were Tank Carder whom we could've had if we didn't trade down, or if we did execute the trade down after all then Marvin Jones, Juron Criner, George Iloka, Winston Guy and Danny Coale.
     
  48. hoops

    hoops exited stage left

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    i'd rather go with the veteran than depend on kaddu as a nickle rusher...i just don't see the tools there...although i guess i can see some erik walden like long term potential...maybe...not that walden does much for me anyways as a win edge rusher...

    reeks to me of a last chance of saving a slowly going away nfl career...a guy that has no real future other than specials

    interesting on alonzo...he has the size ireland covets although you wouldn't know that after the 2 undersized guys pretty much he signed in free agency...i agree though a lb is coming in the draft at worse by 4th round...and i also think a dt for the future is coming higher than we expect...

    i still think though osi offers more than just a 3rd down rush specialist...i see a rotational end as well
     
  49. fanfin

    fanfin A True Fan

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    I really like Alonso and athletically he is the protoype they are looking for at LB.... but he does have an arrest on his record...

    ---------- Post added at 07:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------

    actually 2, burglary, and DUI
     
  50. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus 1/7/14 Finheaven VIP

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    I'm not saying you depend on him for anything. I'm just trying to isolate where he fits and what his role could potentially be.

    As for Umenyiora, I don't know how much rotational stuff you'd want him doing. That wasn't his speciality even in his prime. He's smaller than most people think. Only 6'3, 255+ pounds or so.
     

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